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Don't be so quick to dismiss Humanities or other non-science majors.

First of all, maintaining a 4.0 for four years is no mean feat.

Add in that one still has to take all the pre-med pre-reqs.

Thirdly, if you think it's easy to major in, say Art History, you try 5-10 page writing essays every two weeks on, say

-The influence of the Hudson River school on American art
-Picasso's Blue Period
-Greco-Roman art motifs in 19th century architecture
-Jan Vermeer: style and substance
-Commentary on the Homer Winslow exhibition at the Met.



Dr.Sticks said:
Really? If I was an adcom I would look better at that 3.6, that guy or gal probably would get a 4.0 in women's studies.
Taking some of the toughest classes on campus and getting a 3.6 is fantastic.

EC and MCAT similar I got 1 spot left I would admit the applicant with a 3.6

I'm a pre-med though... So I might be looking at this the wrong way.
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Goro said:
Don't be so quick to dismiss Humanities or other non-science majors.

First of all, maintaining a 4.0 for four years is no mean feat.

Add in that one still has to take all the pre-med pre-reqs.

Thirdly, if you think it's easy to major in, say Art History, you try 5-10 page writing essays every two weeks on, say

-The influence of the Hudson River school on American art
-Picasso's Blue Period
-Greco-Roman art motifs in 19th century architecture
-Jan Vermeer: style and substance
-Commentary on the Homer Winslow exhibition at the Met.
Click to expand...

I find it boring
Taking a 200 level humanities class
I want to shoot myself right now
It's torture
Have an A so far though, but man it pains to even read a page of the book.
 
Goro said:
Don't be so quick to dismiss Humanities or other non-science majors.

First of all, maintaining a 4.0 for four years is no mean feat.

Add in that one still has to take all the pre-med pre-reqs.

Thirdly, if you think it's easy to major in, say Art History, you try 5-10 page writing essays every two weeks on, say

-The influence of the Hudson River school on American art
-Picasso's Blue Period
-Greco-Roman art motifs in 19th century architecture
-Jan Vermeer: style and substance
-Commentary on the Homer Winslow exhibition at the Met.
Click to expand...
essays = subjective + how much the prof likes yo
 
There are six competencies that pre-meds, medical students, residents and doctors now have to master.

Scholastic aptitude is just one of them. The other five are humanistic domains.

You've been warned.


Dr.Sticks said:
I find it boring
Taking a 200 level humanities class
I want to shoot myself right now
It's torture
Have an A so far though, but man it pains to even read a page of the book.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
There are six competencies that pre-meds, medical students, residents and doctors now have to master.

Scholastic aptitude is just one of them. The other five are humanistic domains.

You've been warned.
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im curious, could you specify those 5 domains
 
Goro said:
Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) defined six major competencies they deem necessary for residency training: patient care, medical knowledge, professionalism, systems-based practice, practice-based learning and improvement, and interpersonal and communication skills


Actually the list is growing:

https://www.staging.aamc.org/initiatives/admissionsinitiative/competencies/
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Brah those are competencies. Humanities are art, philosophy, music, religious studies, classic, languages, linguistic studies, human culture, etc. You scared me for a second.
 
Sdn has taught me grades aren't everything


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
 
Beezlebub said:
im curious, could you specify those 5 domains
Click to expand...

captain-planet.jpg
 
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1) You CAN get accepted to quality MD schools with <70 LizzyM.

2) Listen to @Goro , @gyngyn , @LizzyM

3) Stay off of the school specific threads or you'll go nuts

4) This process cannot be predicted so apply broadly.

5) SDN is a great resource but can be very discouraging at times, especially when you have that 528 MCAT 4.0 gpa kid asking if they'll get accepted to a school this cycle.
 
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zerox117 said:
1) You CAN get accepted to quality MD schools with <70 LizzyM.

2) Listen to @Goro , @gyngyn , @LizzyM

3) Stay off of the school specific threads or you'll go nuts

4) This process cannot be predicted so apply broadly.

5) SDN is a great resource but can be very discouraging at times, especially when you have that 528 4.0 MCAT kid asking if they'll get accepted to a school this cycle.
Click to expand...

But motivating when you have 2.5gpa 490 MCAT kids thinking they're too good for DO schools?
 
Dr.Sticks said:
I find it boring
Taking a 200 level humanities class
I want to shoot myself right now
It's torture
Have an A so far though, but man it pains to even read a page of the book.
Click to expand...

A 200 level humanities course and a 400 level humanities course are not the same. I took a course on Chaucer as part of my English minor, and we had to learn how to speak and read Middle English so that we could read and understand the works in the original text. We also had to be able to recite the first story of Canterbury Tales from memory--in Middle English. She gave us about two weeks to be able to read it semi-fluently.

Do I personally think this compared to my upper division math courses? I really don't think you can compare the two. Different skills. Doing well in real analysis and abstract algebra required different skills. That's a big part of why they don't try to weight majors differently.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
A 200 level humanities course and a 400 level humanities course are not the same. I took a course on Chaucer as part of my English minor, and we had to learn how to speak and read Middle English so that we could read and understand the works in the original text. We also had to be able to recite the first story of Canterbury Tales from memory--in Middle English. She gave us about two weeks to be able to read it semi-fluently.

Do I personally think this compared to my upper division math courses? I really don't think you can compare the two. Different skills. Doing well in real analysis and abstract algebra required different skills. That's a big part of why they don't try to weight majors differently.
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How useful is that in this day and age my kind sir
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
A 200 level humanities course and a 400 level humanities course are not the same. I took a course on Chaucer as part of my English minor, and we had to learn how to speak and read Middle English so that we could read and understand the works in the original text. We also had to be able to recite the first story of Canterbury Tales from memory--in Middle English. She gave us about two weeks to be able to read it semi-fluently.

Do I personally think this compared to my upper division math courses? I really don't think you can compare the two. Different skills. Doing well in real analysis and abstract algebra required different skills. That's a big part of why they don't try to weight majors differently.
Click to expand...
I want to learn middle English!!!!
Yes I agree; 200 level isn't anything compared to 400, but it is painful if you don't like the subject.
What course isn't painful if one doesn't like the subject?
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
A 200 level humanities course and a 400 level humanities course are not the same. I took a course on Chaucer as part of my English minor, and we had to learn how to speak and read Middle English so that we could read and understand the works in the original text. We also had to be able to recite the first story of Canterbury Tales from memory--in Middle English. She gave us about two weeks to be able to read it semi-fluently.

Do I personally think this compared to my upper division math courses? I really don't think you can compare the two. Different skills. Doing well in real analysis and abstract algebra required different skills. That's a big part of why they don't try to weight majors differently.
Click to expand...

I went to an insane college-prep high school and we had to do this my senior year. Our teacher was eccentric, but he loved his damn english lol. I actually learned quite a bit from it.
 
The one thing I learned is that you if you have a C in a class it's not the end of the world. I mean people made it seem like they wouldn't have a chance at med school if they received a C in class lol.
 
Dr.Sticks said:
I want to learn middle English!!!!
Yes I agree; 200 level isn't anything compared to 400, but it is painful if you don't like the subject.
What course isn't painful if one doesn't like the subject?
Click to expand...

Yep. Definitely agree there. I try to find at least one thing I like in the course and just latch onto that.

bioboy23 said:
I went to an insane college-prep high school and we had to do this my senior year. Our teacher was eccentric, but he loved his damn english lol. I actually learned quite a bit from it.
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Nice. It was actually fun. I also took a bunch of upper level courses in Shakespeare with a Shakespeare scholar who has published a bunch of books about him and a grad course on Walt Whitman. Those courses were awesome.
 
Taught me more about the application cycle than an overpaid pre med advisor could. I would still be taking useless pre reqs and spending $2k on an MCAT prep class had I listened to him. If your smart enough to sift through the *****s on here, it is a pretty good place for medical school application advice.
 
gonnif said:
Summer class are perceived as less rigorous and should be avoided

http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
Applicants should avoid taking more than one or two prerequisite science courses during the summer and avoid taking them at community colleges.
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Just gotta say I think a lot of the info in that link is garbage. Some of it is fine, but there's some bad advice in there too.
 
That SDN is a revolving door of the same ideas being spat out of pre-meds/accepted students and that no one really actually knows anything about anything and sometimes you're better off with just going with the flow.
 
Anxiety is a hell of a drug
 
sb247 said:
I learned that if schools required eating a poop hot dog to matriculate that they would still fill up
Click to expand...

I would down at least 2 poop hot dogs if I had to
 
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I've learned that most of my future colleagues (is this okay to say without sounding annoying?) are funny af
 
Dr.Sticks said:
Really? If I was an adcom I would look better at that 3.6, that guy or gal probably would get a 4.0 in women's studies.
Taking some of the toughest classes on campus and getting a 3.6 is fantastic.

EC and MCAT similar I got 1 spot left I would admit the applicant with a 3.6

I'm a pre-med though... So I might be looking at this the wrong way.
Click to expand...
Remember it's a numbers game. 3.9 looks better, period.
 
efle said:
Dude have you taken upper level classes in humanities ? It's a totally different set of abilities, someone that is a damn genius in physics might not be able to write a good philosophy paper to save their life
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Guess you don't hang out with theoretical physicists
 
gonnif said:
But it is what an actual medical school says about many questions that premeds ask. Dismissing it out of pocket perhaps isnt the best reaction
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I'm just saying that taking that particular school's advice as a generalization applied to many schools would be very dangerous, I'm not necessarily dismissing it entirely
 
My advisors are useless, and people have no idea what they are talking about in regards to medical school and its admissions process.
 
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gonnif said:
Perhaps you are right, so here are some additional quotes from medical schools about summer, community college and the perceived rigor of courses. This may give a little better insight in how the underlying “culture” or “attitude” of admission committee members, whether a formal policy or not, may perceive applicants who choose summer or community college coursework. While this list is not exhaustive, it is representative enough to help advise students who are considering such a step.

SUNY Upstate College of Medicine
http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
“Applicants should avoid taking more than one or two prerequisite science courses during the summer and avoid taking them at community colleges.”

Ichan School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/medical/admissions/regular-track/requirements
Q: Can I take my courses at a community college, or must I take them at a four-year college or university?
A: We have no requirement about where you take courses, though the Committee on Admissions does take that into consideration in evaluating your application.

Johns Hopkins Medical School
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admissions/md/application_process/prerequisites_requirements.html
The School of Medicine accepts prerequisites completed at the community college level. In order to be competitive in the selection process, we encourage prospective applicants with community college prerequisites to supplement these courses by taking advanced courses in related subjects at their four year institution.

University of Florida College of Medicine
http://admissions.med.ufl.edu/faq/#community_college
Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses at my local community/junior college?
A: In order to create the most academically competitive application you should take all prerequisite courses at the most competitive bachelor’s degree granting institution where you can gain entrance. You should try to complete your pre-requisite courses at a four-year institution

Albert Einstein College of Medicine
https://www.einstein.yu.edu/educati...pplication-procedure/course-requirements.aspx
Whereas course work at a four-year college or university is our benchmark, if a student chooses to meet a competency component via an alternate route such as through laboratory experience, through an advanced placement course, a course taken at a community college, a course taken abroad (during a semester abroad for which the undergraduate U.S. degree-granting institution gives credit, or for which AMCAS will verify and report the grade), or an online course, he or she should seek guidance from his or her advisor to ensure that the option meets the above guidelines as well as the rigorous academic standard required by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

George Washington University
http://smhs.gwu.edu/academics/md-program/admissions/faqs#communitycollege
Do you accept community college credits?
Yes. The Committee on Admissions does accept coursework taken at a community college; however, it is preferable to have the pre-medical coursework taken at a four-year college or university.

Florida State University College of Medicine
http://med.fsu.edu/?page=mdAdmissions.admissionRequirement
Listed below is the pre-requisite coursework required for all matriculates to the FSU COM. Advanced Placement, CLEP, and dual enrollment credits fulfill the course requirements. However, courses taken in a traditional classroom at a four-year institution are considered to be more academically competitive.

Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
https://medicine.temple.edu/education/md-program/admissions/requirements
Two pre-requisite science courses can be fulfilled with AP credits, community college courses or through a study abroad program.

Texas A&M Health Sciences Center College of Medicine
http://medicine.tamhsc.edu/admissions/apply/index.html
Policy on AP Credits, Credits by Exam, and Dual Credit
We generally prefer that applicants take the prerequisite courses at 4-year accredited colleges and universities rather than utilize advanced placement credits, credits by exam, dual-credit, pass/fail course work or community college courses. We do not dismiss these credits; and, if they have been taken, we will accept them toward meeting the prerequisites. In fact, if an applicant has placed out of a required level course, we will also accept another course in that discipline at the same or higher level. Again, our preference is that applicants take graded courses at 4-year institutions, particularly the prerequisites in the biological sciences and the chemistry series.

Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
http://www.medschool.vcu.edu/admissions/md/faq/#q43
Are community college classes accepted as prerequisite course credit?
They may be, but the Admissions Committee generally expects students to complete all prerequisite courses at a four-year undergraduate institution.

Yale
https://medicine.yale.edu/education/admissions/apply/premed.aspx
Pre-medical courses must be completed in a U.S., U.K., or Canadian college or university. U.S. Community College courses are acceptable, provided that the courses include laboratory work and are comparable in content to courses at four-year colleges, universities, or institutes of technology.

Weill Cornell
http://weill.cornell.edu/education/admissions/app_faq.html
Can I take my prerequisite courses at a Community College?
It is not recommended.
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CC might not be ideal, but I'd argue that the financial benefits outweigh the med school admissions consequences in most cases for a few reasons

1) Most people entering CC aren't doing so as an active choice over attending a good 4-year university, it's usually their only financial option so there are few reasons to discourage it since it's better than the alternative (which is often not pursuing college at all). No one on SDN asks "should I go to a CC or to Princeton?" They ask "how badly will going to a CC hurt me?"

2) CC can help you complete your junior and senior years at a much more prestigious 4-university than you could have attended straight out of high school; CC for 2 years followed by a transfer to UC Berkeley or UCLA very well may be considered more prestigious and rigorous than 4 years at CSU Long Beach

3) Med schools have little reason to be suspicious of your academic abilities if you complete some of your pre reqs at a 4-year university and do well on the MCAT. Many of the schools you quoted simply said that CC is fine as long as you don't take all your pre reqs there

4) There are some amazing benefits to attending CC, like small and intimate class settings in which you can get to know professors very well, get personalized instruction in challenging courses, and eventually get incredible mentorship and LORs. Sometimes it's very valuable to be a big fish in a small pond.

5) Anecdotal piece of evidence #1: one of the schools you quoted invited me for an interview this cycle even though I took over half my pre reqs at a CC, so even though they're formally against CC credit, they don't seem to actually operate that way all the time. Additionally, even though I took gen chem, o-chem, calc, stats, English, and a little bio at my CC, I received IIs to 9 of the 28 schools I applied to, including multiple t-10s. I dont mean to give too much credit to anecdotal evidence or overstate my achievements which I recognize aren't very impressive at all, but I think it's important to show that it's possible to succeed after having to go to a CC

6) Anecdotal piece of evidence #2: during one of my interviews this cycle at a t-10 school (not one of the ones you quoted above, admittedly), my interviewer absolutely loved that I went to a CC, saying she thought it would add a valuable new perspective to the incoming class, since she'd seen a ton of apps from t-10 undergrads but has never seen an applicant from my CC and thought it would add diversity to the school in a way that students from Harvard or Yale or Stanford couldn't (I don't know if I completely agree with her extremely pro-CC views but it shows that there are some good schools that really embrace CC applicants)

Don't get me wrong, if someone has the option to go to a great 4-year over a CC, they should take it. I'm just saying that when there are so many exceptions to the idea that there's a CC stigma, I don't know if it's fair to say there's really a "culture" or widespread "attitude" that's anti-CC in a significant way.
 
May not be the right place to post this but oh well. If any <70 LizzyM'ers (made this specification cause I doubt the superstars would need any help lol) would like any kind of advice about the application process or have any questions please feel free to PM me! I'll try to have timely responses (Work may delay that lol).
 
The only caveat about CC coursework is that it should not appear as if you're avoiding your 4 year school's weeding courses.

In my book, the CC -> UG route is fine

aalamruad said:
CC might not be ideal, but I'd argue that the financial benefits outweigh the med school admissions consequences in most cases for a few reasons

1) Most people entering CC aren't doing so as an active choice over attending a good 4-year university, it's usually their only financial option so there are few reasons to discourage it since it's better than the alternative (which is often not pursuing college at all). No one on SDN asks "should I go to a CC or to Princeton?" They ask "how badly will going to a CC hurt me?"

2) CC can help you complete your junior and senior years at a much more prestigious 4-university than you could have attended straight out of high school; CC for 2 years followed by a transfer to UC Berkeley or UCLA very well may be considered more prestigious and rigorous than 4 years at CSU Long Beach

3) Med schools have little reason to be suspicious of your academic abilities if you complete some of your pre reqs at a 4-year university and do well on the MCAT. Many of the schools you quoted simply said that CC is fine as long as you don't take all your pre reqs there

4) There are some amazing benefits to attending CC, like small and intimate class settings in which you can get to know professors very well, get personalized instruction in challenging courses, and eventually get incredible mentorship and LORs. Sometimes it's very valuable to be a big fish in a small pond.

5) Anecdotal piece of evidence #1: one of the schools you quoted invited me for an interview this cycle even though I took over half my pre reqs at a CC, so even though they're formally against CC credit, they don't seem to actually operate that way all the time. Additionally, even though I took gen chem, o-chem, calc, stats, English, and a little bio at my CC, I received IIs to 9 of the 28 schools I applied to, including multiple t-10s. I dont mean to give too much credit to anecdotal evidence or overstate my achievements which I recognize aren't very impressive at all, but I think it's important to show that it's possible to succeed after having to go to a CC

6) Anecdotal piece of evidence #2: during one of my interviews this cycle at a t-10 school (not one of the ones you quoted above, admittedly), my interviewer absolutely loved that I went to a CC, saying she thought it would add a valuable new perspective to the incoming class, since she'd seen a ton of apps from t-10 undergrads but has never seen an applicant from my CC and thought it would add diversity to the school in a way that students from Harvard or Yale or Stanford couldn't (I don't know if I completely agree with her extremely pro-CC views but it shows that there are some good schools that really embrace CC applicants)

Don't get me wrong, if someone has the option to go to a great 4-year over a CC, they should take it. I'm just saying that when there are so many exceptions to the idea that there's a CC stigma, I don't know if it's fair to say there's really a "culture" or widespread "attitude" that's anti-CC in a significant way.
Click to expand...
 
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Kgizzle said:
Guess you don't hang out with theoretical physicists
Click to expand...

I hung out with plenty of pure mathematicians getting my math degree, and I still agree that upper division humanities courses require different skills than sciences/mathematics. I still think that upper division math/science is objectively more difficult, but there I've taken some upper division and graduate English lit courses. They were fun, but definitely challenging.
 
I used to think I was one of the more neurotic people on the planet, then I joined SDN. Thanks fellas
 
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