MD .

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
In my mind they are on the same spectrum of reckless behavior that can be potentially harmful. You’d be surprised what kind of stuff leads patients to me. Reckless behaviors go hand in hand a lot. And it’s not just drinking and driving. Atomi is right in saying that a lot of casual sex is actually associated with psychological trauma — I saw this a lot when doing psych, promiscuity is often an indication of deeper issues....which harkens back to what he said about getting intimately involved with potentially unstable people. I personally think modern hookup apps are gross and my opinion stands. But I think it’s less about morality and more about the constant need for gratification in our culture, regardless of risk or sense. What I take issue with is people saying atomi is flat out wrong, when his opinion is as valid as theirs.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

You come across polite and polished with your opinion, which makes it come across as more valid to us (even if we may not agree)

Atomi comes across overly judgmental, brash, and rude. So even if I may agree with some of the stuff he is saying (to a certain extent), I find it very condescending to many.

Those in the medical field are people to. Doctors sleep around, smoke, eat unhealthy, do not exercise, forget to brush their teeth, speed etc. Just because they/we learn about the risks of these things more than the common person may does not make us completely immune to them. If you do your job correctly, it’s not fair to judge and I feel as if you should interact with physician/medical student/resident friends/colleagues as you would your non medical friends/family regarding things like these (providing it is not affecting patient care)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I agree with you. And the people who are trying to shame you for your opinions... calling you “toxic” and such.... methinks the lady doth protest too much. IMHO, advertising your white coat on a hookup app is even cringier than using hookup apps in the first place. For better or worse, modern culture has normalized all sorts of questionable behavior. We live in a world of instant gratification, selfishness, and fake outrage. Stick to your guns @atomi. Your opinions are equally valid. I treat plenty of idiotic patients, it’s part of my job... (most of it really; trauma is “no accident”), but that doesn’t mean I will ever agree with what they do, and diversity of opinion does not make a physician somehow worse or less moral.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

An opinion doesn't make someone less moral, but when they use an opinion to make dispositional attributions about others, including their patients, it becomes problematic. You don't have to enjoy casual sex yourself to not judge your patient.
 
Everyone judges everyone else. Just part of life. A good percentage of my patients are complete dumb****s who make very poor life choices. I make judgments of their character based on those choices. I know exactly which of them will be abusive to my staff, noncompliant, etc., based on what I know about them, things that have nothing to do with their injury. That doesn’t stop me from treating them properly. In fact, that judgment helps me make my clinical decisions. If I suspect noncompliance, I might do an entirely different surgery that accommodates for it. You will see for yourself, once you enter residency.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I've spent over a year developing curriculum on sexual health & history taking at my medical school. People make dispositional attributions about people based on their sex lives constantly, and this is particularly an issue for LGBTQIA+ patients. Judgmental attitudes in physicians are one major reason why LGBTQIA+ individuals face so many health disparities and are afraid to seek out healthcare. The type of attitudes that have been expressed in this thread are precisely the ones that are harmful to marginalized patient populations, such as the LGBTQIA+ community. So sorry, I'm not buying your line of reasoning.

If you judge a patient because they use grindr, you shouldn't be a physician.
 
And that’s exactly the all-or-none attitude that this thread doesn’t need. You’re being just as intolerant as that which you claim to be against. My point stands. And by the way, I know you’re LGBT and all, but not everything is about sexual orientation. What you do in your spare time in medical school has precisely zero to do with the content of this thread. Last I checked, this thread was about casual sex and hookup culture, not the type of sex that people are having. Or whom they’re having it with. So take your buzzwords elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

This thread started with a discussion of Grindr. Do you lack basic reading comprehension skills? Maybe that's why you're so uninformed.

I feel bad for your patients. It's so counterproductive to the role of a physician to be arguing for the right to judge your patients.
 
I know this thread got somewhat sidetracked, but...since when does using an online dating app mean that you only have unsafe sex with people who have a history of the same?

Two of my close friends here at med school met their long-term partners on dating apps. Both still had plenty of traditional dates before hooking up, and one of the couples did the standard STI testing before doing so (the others didn't need to). Even Tindr gets used for actual dating these days, though Grindr admittedly less so.
Other of my friends use these apps for hookups and/or dating...which mirrors the relationships they pursue in face to face meets.

People pursue intimacy, both physical and otherwise, in various ways. There's no right or wrong way to do it, though there are safe/unsafe ways to approach it whether you hook up frequently or not. From what I've seen, dating apps just make the finding part easier, but for my friends don't seem to change much about the number or kind of relationships they pursue.

Just saying, let's maybe make fewer assumptions about how these apps have to be used. It makes you look out of touch.


Also, who cares if you have a white coat pic on there, if it's a good pic? I don't think it makes you look any different than any other fancy-dress pic would. People on SDN have some weird hangups about their white coats, but the rest of the world doesn't care as much as this site would make you think.
 
Everyone judges everyone else. Just part of life. A good percentage of my patients are complete dumb****s who make very poor life choices. I make judgments of their character based on those choices. I know exactly which of them will be abusive to my staff, noncompliant, etc., based on what I know about them, things that have nothing to do with their injury. That doesn’t stop me from treating them properly. In fact, that judgment helps me make my clinical decisions. If I suspect noncompliance, I might do an entirely different surgery that accommodates for it. You will see for yourself, once you enter residency.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Once again, that's very different from assuming that someone who likes casual sex doesn't value themselves or is a gross person.
 
I know this thread got somewhat sidetracked, but...since when does using an online dating app mean that you only have unsafe sex with people who have a history of the same?

Two of my close friends here at med school met their long-term partners on dating apps. Both still had plenty of traditional dates before hooking up, and one of the couples did the standard STI testing before doing so (the others didn't need to). Even Tindr gets used for actual dating these days, though Grindr admittedly less so.
Other of my friends use these apps for hookups and/or dating...which mirrors the relationships they pursue in face to face meets.

People pursue intimacy, both physical and otherwise, in various ways. There's no right or wrong way to do it, though there are safe/unsafe ways to approach it whether you hook up frequently or not. From what I've seen, dating apps just make the finding part easier, but for my friends don't seem to change much about the number or kind of relationships they pursue.

Just saying, let's maybe make fewer assumptions about how these apps have to be used. It makes you look out of touch.


Also, who cares if you have a white coat pic on there, if it's a good pic? I don't think it makes you look any different than any other fancy-dress pic would. People on SDN have some weird hangups about their white coats, but the rest of the world doesn't care as much as this site would make you think.

I generally agree with this - I still maintain that using an app for dating is LESS likely to result in high risk sexual behavior compared to hooking up at a bar or club while inebriated. If anything I think that online dating and apps have actually improved safety and access. There are of course downsides to all of this, not least being whether you can trust what you see online, but that’s another discussion altogether. I again have no skin in this personally because I’m happily married with a child but I know plenty of folks who use these apps in a healthy way.

I maintain also that a large part of the backlash comes from social or religious conservative stigma or personal background - which I think some of our posters are exhibiting. We all have our biases but then don’t put up the pretense of being objective and empiric about this by talking about BS “studies” which link use of dating apps to psychiatric problems (read: nonexistent).
 
In turn, do you lack logic, or basic knowledge about how life works? Or just emotion clouding facts? Everyone judges people. All the time. Everyone. It is neither good nor bad. Stereotypes exist for a reason. Someone who randomly hooks up every other night with a different person is not exactly a picture of good judgment. If I didn’t see such people on a daily basis, I wouldn’t have that opinion. But I do. I love the fact how someone who is barely out of diapers in medical school is lecturing a senior attending about what she has “the right” to do or not. I’m going to go cry myself to sleep now, LOL. You’ll see once you get into residency, you will likely be the most judgmental person of all, since you’re already clearly judging me and my character and “feeling bad” for my patients… hahahaha. I think I’ll live through it, somehow.
The hypocrisy of some people is unbelievable, especially when they do not recognize that they are being exactly the person that they claim to despise. I am no longer engaging in what is clearly becoming an unproductive conversation. I hope residency teaches you some reason. Blocked.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Just a point - how does you being a senior ortho attending make any difference in opinion whether or not someone debating on the Internet with you is a medical student? I’m a fellow in a completely different field and submit that any personal experience and any expertise that you or I have (or more likely don’t have) is utterly unrelated to your position in the medical field. Now if you were a trauma psychiatrist it might mean something - but you being an ortho attending means nothing.

This isn’t your ortho rotation where you tell your medical students to shut up and put up with the hierarchy - it’s an Internet forum.
 
I will reply to some of the ridiculousness posted here later in more depth, but since I’ve been called out by a number of med students, residents, and attendings for lying about any evidence suggesting a link between promiscuity and psychological health, I just want to say how amazing it is how incapable some are at performing a basic literature search let alone not understanding this basic tenet that health care providers should be aware of.

So fine, let’s start here:
Pubmed:
/PMC3752789/

“This study established a strong association between number of sex partners and later substance disorder, especially for women, which persisted beyond prior substance use and mental health problems more generally.”

Other studies have shown a link between promiscuity and infidelity and divorce rates, and studies correlating other problems as well.

The flippant attitude towards sex as this totally benign and harmless thing, just like a recreational activity, and belief by some here that there is no value or virtue to sexual restraint is concerning. I wish I could say it’s surprising. The point I’m trying to make is that it’s not the norm. Average number of lifetime partners in the US is 7. We have a small vocal minority screaming at us that hooking up with strangers every week is totally normal, seemingly incapable of handling any criticism at all.
 
You’re right it’s high risk behavior. No one was doubting that part. But it doesn’t affect your life - no need to look down on people who don’t share your lifestyle (and the same the other way around).


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I did, through my hospital site. I head my department’s research division. I don’t make a habit of being an “abstract reader.” The “minority” and “men” portion of that article is useless, fwiw....as it doesn’t seem to have any bearing on things. But the casual sex part is relevant.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
OK that makes sense, because that abstract is garbage and I don't have access to the full article for any sort of critique.
 
Who cares if you have a white coat pic. Is it ok for people to post pictures of them at their job like in an office, a lab, or a school? Why not doctors or medical students then? If it's a good picture, go for it.
 
Hi Everybody!

I've been using SDN since my pre-med days, but this is my first time posting. I was wondering what people though about using a pic from your white-coat ceremony or just any pic of you in your white coat to get strictly casual dates on dating apps (tinder, grinder, HUD, bumble...etc.). Is it unprofessional? Will my school care? Has anybody done it before and does it work???

If there are already existing threads about this, please let me know!

Thank You!
Why not ask girls/guys out for lunch / coffee in your class? I've never used an online dating app but I assume there are some massive creeps on there?? I can't say since I'm not on there but seems like there has to be a reason they can't / didn't find someone the natural way .... I'm single and will enter Med. School at 32 (never married, just had health issues for 7 yrs, procedure, now 100% better, and single and back going to Med. School b/c of my experience) so yea, I've thought about online apps but I just highly doubt there are people on there that I could be attracted too or else, why are they needing a dating app to find a guy?? Hope I'm wrong in that assumption?
 
If you are attractive it might be the extra amount of security a girl needs to hook up with you. Or it might be a way to trap you with a baby. I've had one scare where a girl said I got her pregnant after meeting and hooking up on an app. When I said I wanted testing she said never mind. Lol.
I don't get medical professionals hooking up for sex!!? Seems unprofessional to say the least ... are there not people who use online dating apps to actually meet the person they will marry vs. play around!? Legit question as I'm nearly 32 and bout to enter med school single, not looking for sex, looking for a Christian woman who is attrative, yes, and intelligent, has a career or is in medical school. Yes she will likely be 8-10 years younger than me if in medical school but I'm a cool 32 year old haha. Hopefully the 8-10 yr difference wouldn't kill my chances ... I play piano too : )
 
I don't get medical professionals hooking up for sex!!? Seems unprofessional to say the least ... are there not people who use online dating apps to actually meet the person they will marry vs. play around!? Legit question as I'm nearly 32 and bout to enter med school single, not looking for sex, looking for a Christian woman who is attrative, yes, and intelligent, has a career or is in medical school. Yes she will likely be 8-10 years younger than me if in medical school but I'm a cool 32 year old haha. Hopefully the 8-10 yr difference wouldn't kill my chances ... I play piano too : )

Dude. You said in another thread that you’re 29 and haven’t even finished pre-reqs yet so settle down. Btw it’s so gross that you are posting in multiple threads about how can you get a girl 10 years younger than you.

(This is not to say every couple with 10 year age difference is a problem. Just that this particular person is deliberately setting out with that goal.)
 
I've spent over a year developing curriculum on sexual health & history taking at my medical school. People make dispositional attributions about people based on their sex lives constantly, and this is particularly an issue for LGBTQIA+ patients. Judgmental attitudes in physicians are one major reason why LGBTQIA+ individuals face so many health disparities and are afraid to seek out healthcare. The type of attitudes that have been expressed in this thread are precisely the ones that are harmful to marginalized patient populations, such as the LGBTQIA+ community. So sorry, I'm not buying your line of reasoning.

If you judge a patient because they use grindr, you shouldn't be a physician.

When did new letters get added and what do they mean
 
I don't get medical professionals hooking up for sex!!? Seems unprofessional to say the least ... are there not people who use online dating apps to actually meet the person they will marry vs. play around!? Legit question as I'm nearly 32 and bout to enter med school single, not looking for sex, looking for a Christian woman who is attrative, yes, and intelligent, has a career or is in medical school. Yes she will likely be 8-10 years younger than me if in medical school but I'm a cool 32 year old haha. Hopefully the 8-10 yr difference wouldn't kill my chances ... I play piano too : )

Since you've asked the question about 15 times elsewhere...sure, you can find a 20 year old as a 30 year old. Happens all the time. I was in my late 20s and met my current partner when she was in her early 20s. However, I've dated older people and didn't restrict myself to that age and purposely creep around the undergrad campus. It just happened. Also, hate to break it to you, most women tend to want to date people their own age.

And it's never going to happen for you because you are coming across as an enormous creep in multiple threads. The things you say are the kind of things and attitudes abusive and controlling husbands have. You sound like a predator who is looking for a naïve 18 year old virgin who you can brainwash, get pregnant, and control her life. It's the attitudes of people like you that have caused the social backlash and outcry against even the tiniest suggestion of sexual moderation. People like AustinJ on this thread think you and I are the same and as a result we have this nonsense being shoved down everyone's throat of "Look at me, I'm an adult and I can put my ---- wherever I want to and it's totally safe and emotionally healthy and if you judge someone for having 50 partners a month and tell them that's a problem, then you're this horrible bigot Christian cult-member who can't be a physician, and we are going to forcefully re-educate everyone that any and all sexual behavior is totally fine and should be accepted by everyone all the time and publicly shame and silence people who view sex more seriously"

Basically...
I+gave+this+post+a+thumb+just+waiting+for+op+_a5d1ba7d16d4a584bcb2457d66fe9a43.jpg
 
Man IRAD4LIFE, that post is so similar to r/niceguys posts.

I don't understand why people get all rage about it. I actually agree with the general idea of atomi and OrthoTraumaMD. I have had one partner in my life and it is my wife and we have been married for >10 years and rock solid. I think the lack of other partners helps our relationship. I also think sex should be the end goal as well and I plan on teaching my children (when they come of age) that they don't need to wait for marriage, but they need to understand the consequences. But....

....that has nothing to do with anyone else. If you don't want that, I don't care because it doesn't affect me in any way. And if someone uses a dating app, it doesn't have a bearing on my relationship. I don't understand why people get so passionate about trying to change someone else's mind. I am personally anti-abortion but maintain a pro-choice stance because my decision is not someone else decision. similar situation here. what difference does it make what people do in their private lives if it doesn't affect others in a negative manner. if two consenting adults want to do something that I personally don't agree with, who am I to stop it?

I think there are situations where it would be highly inappropriate for a physician or medical student to be on a dating app for casual hookups and that would be if you, as a provider, exclusively practice by trying to change and provide for those with high risk sexual behavior. Or something similar. In the same light of how an obese physician probably should go into obesity medicine. That's about it. Everything else is fair game in my mind. we aren't alive long enough to get this angry over topics like this.
 
and IRAD4LIFE, would you fit the standards of the woman you are looking for? why would she be interested in a late 20s guy who lives with their parents? and your post saying "I was sick and had a procedure for 10 years, that's why I never went on a date" makes sound like one of those incels raging about how they are the best thing in the world but no woman understands. there isn't a lot of agreement on this thread but it appears unanimous that you are coming across as very creepy.
 
To clear things up .... yes I'd prefer a lady who is younger than me, but not 10-12 years younger, but I also want a lady who has never been married, and with that, you are restricted to young 20's. 18,19, yea, that is too young but young 20's idk, its not overly creep. I haven't found many "legit, successful, attractive" females 25 yrs and up that are single, never married. So hence why I ask if a younger woman would consider a 32 year old (I'm not planning to date an undergrad girl right now because once I move to med school, chances are it will end as I may be 1,000 miles away.) So I'd be 32 in Med. School and looking for a "future wife". The field of quality single women is 18-23 year olds, maybe 24 if your lucky. I would hope to find a 22-30 year old by that time but thre just won't be single 27-32 ladies in Med. School given that they are attractive. Not super model attrative but 7/10 level, fit, thin ya know. I'm into fitness so yea, but I'm single b/c I was sick and dropped out of college (could'nt work/date etc) when I hit 21 years old and had a major procedure at 26 and now back in school to become a doctor. But now I'm 100% better and most my peers are 10 years ahead of me working, married etc. I missed the time, the years, but want to make up for it. All the girls my age that would be single have careers and they don't wanna date a guy living with his parents in undergrad at 29. LOL

What exactly is your problem with dating someone who has been divorced? How is that any different than dating someone who had a sexual relationship before but was never married? Is this just code for saying you only want a virgin?

This idea you have that the "field of quality single women is 18-23 year olds" is ridiculous. How are you going to feel if those young girls say they are not interested in someone who is older, 10 years behind in his professional career/education, living with his parents, and formerly disabled as you aren't a "quality" man? Wouldn't that suck? How do you think the older women who were formerly married feel that you are judging them based on that?

It's good that you are trying to better yourself, but some of these misconceptions you have are extremely immature, like almost at the preteen level, and are going to seriously hold you back. It's like you're saying you're only interested in dating girls, not women. Everything you are saying indicates that you view women as objects as you are discussing them as if you were shopping for a new car. Must be recent model (young), not pre-owned (never married), fast (fit/attractive), luxury brand (med student). But hey, it doesn't have to be a Bentley, I'll settle for a BMW, I'm reasonable after all. BTW, I have no cash or credit and my parents are going to co-sign my lease. I mean, WTF dude, can you not hear yourself?
 
In some religious denominations marriage is final, so I can understand if someone doesn’t want a person who has been married, because legal divorce doesn’t matter - that person is still “married” in the eyes of G-d. I don’t actually take issue with that part of his “asks.” It’s everything else that sucks, haha.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
And there's nothing necessarily wrong with wanting to be attracted to a partner, but wording it as he does makes it seem (and likely is) more than just that.
 
To clear things up .... yes I'd prefer a lady who is younger than me, but not 10-12 years younger, but I also want a lady who has never been married, and with that, you are restricted to young 20's. 18,19, yea, that is too young but young 20's idk, its not overly creep. I haven't found many "legit, successful, attractive" females 25 yrs and up that are single, never married. So hence why I ask if a younger woman would consider a 32 year old (I'm not planning to date an undergrad girl right now because once I move to med school, chances are it will end as I may be 1,000 miles away.) So I'd be 32 in Med. School and looking for a "future wife". The field of quality single women is 18-23 year olds, maybe 24 if your lucky. I would hope to find a 22-30 year old by that time but thre just won't be single 27-32 ladies in Med. School given that they are attractive. Not super model attrative but 7/10 level, fit, thin ya know. I'm into fitness so yea, but I'm single b/c I was sick and dropped out of college (could'nt work/date etc) when I hit 21 years old and had a major procedure at 26 and now back in school to become a doctor. But now I'm 100% better and most my peers are 10 years ahead of me working, married etc. I missed the time, the years, but want to make up for it. All the girls my age that would be single have careers and they don't wanna date a guy living with his parents in undergrad at 29. LOL

You: “I want someone younger because there aren’t older single women with a career over 24.” (What rock are you living under? I, and most of my friends, all got married in our late 20s/early 30s.)
Also you: “well technically there are, but they won’t be hot. And I only want a hot never-married woman.”
And that is why you come off as a creep. The only thing that matters to you is “quality single woman.” Quality is more than age or physical attractiveness.
Gross. If you keep thinking like this, the older AND younger women, hot and not hot, will stay the f away from you. Your approach, based on these posts, smacks of entitlement and shallowness.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Average first marriage age:
Men=30
Women=28

So no, not everyone of marriage material over 23 is married.

I got married at 32, my husband 33. Like @OrthoTraumaMD most of my similarly college educated, professional friends got married late 20s/early 30s or aren’t yet if younger.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/...-series/demo/families-and-households/ms-2.pdf
 
Who cares if you have a white coat pic. Is it ok for people to post pictures of them at their job like in an office, a lab, or a school? Why not doctors or medical students then? If it's a good picture, go for it.
lol @ anyone thinking white coat pics matter on dating apps. It's literally a game of facial aesthetics.
To clear things up .... yes I'd prefer a lady who is younger than me, but not 10-12 years younger, but I also want a lady who has never been married, and with that, you are restricted to young 20's. 18,19, yea, that is too young but young 20's idk, its not overly creep. I haven't found many "legit, successful, attractive" females 25 yrs and up that are single, never married. So hence why I ask if a younger woman would consider a 32 year old (I'm not planning to date an undergrad girl right now because once I move to med school, chances are it will end as I may be 1,000 miles away.) So I'd be 32 in Med. School and looking for a "future wife". The field of quality single women is 18-23 year olds, maybe 24 if your lucky. I would hope to find a 22-30 year old by that time but thre just won't be single 27-32 ladies in Med. School given that they are attractive. Not super model attrative but 7/10 level, fit, thin ya know. I'm into fitness so yea, but I'm single b/c I was sick and dropped out of college (could'nt work/date etc) when I hit 21 years old and had a major procedure at 26 and now back in school to become a doctor. But now I'm 100% better and most my peers are 10 years ahead of me working, married etc. I missed the time, the years, but want to make up for it. All the girls my age that would be single have careers and they don't wanna date a guy living with his parents in undergrad at 29. LOL
You're either trolling or nuts. Also in real life, younger women aren't dating much older men. Take a walk to the mall and see.
 
lol @ anyone thinking white coat pics matter on dating apps. It's literally a game of facial aesthetics.

Exactly (and body)....the only criteria is good picture vs. bad picture.
 
As a favor, I may have taken a picture of my friend doing laparoscopic surgery. A very majestic shot of him standing there, perfect lighting, shucking out a gallbladder. He used it as one of his profile pics on Tinder, along with a nice white coat pic. He cleaned house. It also helped that he's very good-looking at baseline and has a closing game better than Mariano Rivera.
 
A few random thoughts.

1) A quick literature search shows there are copious observational or prospective cohort studies where number of sexual partners or a casual attitude toward sex are associated with all sorts of psych or drug problems. However there is no RCT showing that lots of casual sex causes certain outcomes. We need to create that causal link. I am willing to be randomized to the group having lots of sex.

2) my wife is now mad at me and I'm sleeping on the couch tonight... For science

3) I feel like the LGBT community is fighting with the nursing community for who can add the most useless letters the fastest. Every time I turn around there is another letter. Now they're adding symbols.
 
This thread started with a discussion of Grindr. Do you lack basic reading comprehension skills? Maybe that's why you're so uninformed.

I feel bad for your patients. It's so counterproductive to the role of a physician to be arguing for the right to judge your patients.

Wow pretty high and mighty for a PRECLINICAL medical student to be judging an attending. At first I thought this post was a joke but im coming to realize you're serious. I recommend you check your attitude before you start third year .

I judge my patients everyday. I tell them to their face what I am judging them about. At least once a week I call a patient an idiot to their face. Usually it's more. Most of the time it's drugs or smoking related .

I have one of the highest patient satisfaction ratings in the hospital. Patients appreciate you telling it like it is. Doctors need a ****ing backbone again... Beyond that is is your God damn job to educate your patients. You're the one who has the education. Despite what people would have you believe these days, not every choice is a good one
 
Wow pretty high and mighty for a PRECLINICAL medical student to be judging an attending. At first I thought this post was a joke but im coming to realize you're serious. I recommend you check your attitude before you start third year .

I judge my patients everyday. I tell them to their face what I am judging them about. At least once a week I call a patient an idiot to their face. Usually it's more. Most of the time it's drugs or smoking related .

I have one of the highest patient satisfaction ratings in the hospital. Patients appreciate you telling it like it is. Doctors need a ****ing backbone again... Beyond that is is your God damn job to educate your patients. You're the one who has the education. Despite what people would have you believe these days, not every choice is a good one
Says the attending cardiologist.

This is not something we can all get away with.
 
As a favor, I may have taken a picture of my friend doing laparoscopic surgery. A very majestic shot of him standing there, perfect lighting, shucking out a gallbladder. He used it as one of his profile pics on Tinder, along with a nice white coat pic. He cleaned house. It also helped that he's very good-looking at baseline and has a closing game better than Mariano Rivera.
That's literally 95% of it (serious).
 
That's literally 95% of it (serious).

Goes back to what I was saying about a minority of users getting a majority of hookups. A female using the app who gets a match with a male more attractive than herself better understand that there is an extremely good chance that male is having sex with many other tinder users at the same time. I've met a few guys who do this. Swipe right on literally every mildly attractive not fat girl and try to sleep with as many as possible. Yes, it's a meat market but it's still about superficial things. If you're a fat ugly short guy, wearing a white coat probably won't help much. But if you're at all above average, throw in a few pics demonstrating status (white coat, car, rolex, exotic vacation pic, whatever) and of course it will make a difference. I knew two guys in med school (just before the tinder era) that weren't exactly good looking -- not ugly, but below average height, a little overweight, average facial attractiveness, who would wingman each other and go to the undergrad bars every weekend and tell all the undergrad girls they were med students and brag about themselves and absolutely cleaned up with a near 100% batting average each time.

The whole thing is pathetic and gross. This is what we've come to as humans? And the largest most powerful companies in the world are things like facebook who are implicit in this societal devolution and a whole host of much much worse things.

I'm bearish on our race in general. There are a few basic things in life we're supposed to get right. Resisting the urge to screw everything with a pulse at first sight is high on that list. We're now shaming common decency and morality and telling doctors and educators to turn a blind eye to self-destructive behaviors. Idiocracy here we come...

205f31254c2f7f3332d53e0a3b5eff88a3f3ceae363f64e99865732ca58b7633.jpg
 
Goes back to what I was saying about a minority of users getting a majority of hookups. A female using the app who gets a match with a male more attractive than herself better understand that there is an extremely good chance that male is having sex with many other tinder users at the same time. I've met a few guys who do this. Swipe right on literally every mildly attractive not fat girl and try to sleep with as many as possible. Yes, it's a meat market but it's still about superficial things. If you're a fat ugly short guy, wearing a white coat probably won't help much. But if you're at all above average, throw in a few pics demonstrating status (white coat, car, rolex, exotic vacation pic, whatever) and of course it will make a difference. I knew two guys in med school (just before the tinder era) that weren't exactly good looking -- not ugly, but below average height, a little overweight, average facial attractiveness, who would wingman each other and go to the undergrad bars every weekend and tell all the undergrad girls they were med students and brag about themselves and absolutely cleaned up with a near 100% batting average each time.

The whole thing is pathetic and gross. This is what we've come to as humans? And the largest most powerful companies in the world are things like facebook who are implicit in this societal devolution and a whole host of much much worse things.

I'm bearish on our race in general. There are a few basic things in life we're supposed to get right. Resisting the urge to screw everything with a pulse at first sight is high on that list. We're now shaming common decency and morality and telling doctors and educators to turn a blind eye to self-destructive behaviors. Idiocracy here we come...

Tinder/whatever hookup app/dating site is where almost any girl can get laid instantly. Some may choose to have sex with 3-5+ guys every week (some unprotected sex too) and I know of over a dozen examples personally like this.

For men, you need to be in the top 10% of looks to do well. In real life, it's top 20%. Now in that top 10%, if you're barely there then you're most likely meeting average to slightly above average girls. The few hot girls on those apps who genuinely want to meet to hookup will do so if the guy is insanely attractive.

Outside of hooking up, for actual dating - looks are still by far #1 but you can get by being fully above average (still hard to do).

The white coat or "doctor status" later on only helps you within your own league. It doesn't allow you to shoot above. So yeah you can gain premed interest, but ones who are in your league to begin with.
 
If I’m not mistaken, the youth of today are actually much less promiscuous than the most recent generations, are delaying sex longer, have fewer partners. They also probably don’t have an attention span long enough to pursue anyone, and spend too much time making GIFs.

Every major study on happiness shows what matters is your ties to other people. And the biggest/closest tie most of us will have is our spouse. For the majority of us, our spouse will be the main determinant of our happiness. Finding a life partner is about much more than sex, and if you can’t learn to date someone long enough to form a real relationship, the odds of being able to eventually “settle down” with someone go down. We’re creatures of inertia-despite Hollywood showing how often people can change, it’s actually really hard.

The life you live now is the life you’re going to keep living. I have no problem with people that pursue the hookup culture. Personally I see it as misguided and less likely to lead to long term happiness, but who am I to judge? I’m sure there are others out there thinking my life is sad and boring.
 
There are plenty of attractive female nurses that want to date physicians, so not sure why would a male doc/resident use dating websites for casual sexual encounters when there are plenty of good-looking nurses/RT/dietitians at the hospital that are open to date physicians. I have had a few indirect offers already and I have been a resident for only 4 1/2 months. But fortunately ( or maybe unfortunately 😛) I am taken already.

Med students probably have to use dating websites since they are way at the bottom of the totem pole.
 
There are plenty of attractive female nurses that want to date physicians, so not sure why would a male doc/resident use dating websites for casual sexual encounters when there are plenty of good-looking nurses/RT/dietitians at the hospital that are open to date physicians. I have had a few indirect offers already and I have been a resident for only 4 1/2 months. But fortunately ( or maybe unfortunately 😛) I am taken already.

Med students probably have to use dating websites since they are way at the bottom of the totem pole.
Never seen any evidence of this. Only seen the opposite actually.
What I have seen is... attractive female makes convo/flirts with male and then rejects the male when asked out. It's all a matter of interpreting signs correctly.
To add to that, I think residents (and attendings) drastically overestimate their dating value.
 
Never seen any evidence of this. Only seen the opposite actually.
What I have seen is... attractive female makes convo/flirts with male and then rejects the male when asked out. It's all a matter of interpreting signs correctly.
To add to that, I think residents (and attendings) drastically overestimate their dating value.
I guess you might be correct since this profession attracts a bunch of weirdos, but my experience has been different so far. I have had 2 female nurses that have said to my co-residents they would not mind to go out with me. And another one that gave me her friend phone # who is still waiting for my call. The daughter of one of my patients gave me her phone # without asking her. Of course, these people are not Jessica Alba, but they aren't bad looking either. Did not get these offers when I was a med student...
 
Last edited:
Tinder/whatever hookup app/dating site is where almost any girl can get laid instantly. Some may choose to have sex with 3-5+ guys every week (some unprotected sex too) and I know of over a dozen examples personally like this.

For men, you need to be in the top 10% of looks to do well. In real life, it's top 20%. Now in that top 10%, if you're barely there then you're most likely meeting average to slightly above average girls. The few hot girls on those apps who genuinely want to meet to hookup will do so if the guy is insanely attractive.

Outside of hooking up, for actual dating - looks are still by far #1 but you can get by being fully above average (still hard to do).

The white coat or "doctor status" later on only helps you within your own league. It doesn't allow you to shoot above. So yeah you can gain premed interest, but ones who are in your league to begin with.

You've got some points, but I'm sorry, no, it's not that much about looks in real life, where women are far less shallow about looks when choosing a partner. On Tinder moreso for sure, as it is really that most attractive men that are driving everything based on published data. The bottom 80% of men are competing for the bottom 20% of women, whereas the top 80% of women are competing for the top 20% of men, or something like that. There is no shortage of short, average looking, non-white guys on the internet (ahem, reddit) complaining that a minority of tall white men are stealing all of the available women (that they believe they are entitled to) for dates and hookups.

I am a tall, facially attractive, physically fit, white, baby blue eyed, well dressed, well traveled, reasonably wealthy male with an MD behind my name. And you know what, I can count on one hand the number of times in my entire life that a random woman has approached me to hit on me and try and take me home (ok maybe two hands if you want to count less obvious flirting). I'm quiet and introverted, very private, never talk about myself, not that confident in new social settings, suck at small talk, and I've failed many times even with far less attractive women (oddly enough I seemed to fail the most with women less attractive than me when I was younger). Sometimes they would be interested at first, then I wouldn't say the right thing and scare them away. Meanwhile I watched my friends who were short and less attractive (even outright fat), poor, but very confident and naturally charismatic consistently get enormous amounts of female attention. Once I started to develop more self-confidence, I watched things change dramatically for me. I think a lot of young guys have this noxious idea (which permeates the nether reaches of reddit and which your comments are reminding me of) that all women are these shallow creatures and that if only they were tall and white with a square chin and a trust fund that suddenly women everywhere would be swooning over them. And it's absolute total BS. If you are talking about hooking up with strangers at a bar, then yes, women will choose the most attractive, confident, and successful appearing male for a one night stand and ignore everything else because the meat market is just a subconscious insecure affirmation of one's value. But this is a small minority of women that are doing this sort of thing and is basically the same as hookup apps. For finding a longterm partner in real life, it's much less about attractiveness and more about other qualities. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the fact that the hot girl on Tinder swiped right on a different guy or the hot girl at the bar went home with a more attractive guy. You don't want that girl, trust me. I had one of those girls, and she almost ruined my life.

If you are a woman using Tinder looking for anything other than a one night stand, you're an idiot because the only guys you are going to swipe right on are most likely swiping right on most girls on the site and having very frequent one night stands. Herpes and a broken heart/soul, here you come. Hopefully not a baby from a man that will never talk to you again. If you are an attractive man using Tinder looking for a relationship, you likely will get somebody who has been taken through the ringer so to speak by the pick up artists on the app and get to enjoy all the baggage that comes with that. So yes, you are right that facial attractiveness matters the most, but you're kidding yourself if you think this is all that matters. Even being attractive you still probably won't do well and adding other superficial things to broadcast your status will help because the reality is that it's an empty superficial platform that people use to reaffirm their own value (this hot unemployed plumber wants to hook up with me huh, oh wait this hot rich doctor wants to hook up with me also...)

Bottom line, Tinder and other hookup apps suck and are a new low for our society. Like all other social media disasters of the current age, they make us feel horrible about ourselves, isolate us, celebrate superficial image, create vapid and meaningless fake relationships foregoing real relationships, and oh of course they totally mine every little last bit of your personal data as possible to sell to the highest bidder and use it to invade your life, steal your money, and control/influence what you buy and who you vote for.

On one hand, I miss being young due to the excitement and novelty of it all. On the other, I couldn't imagine having to be a part of the hell that modern dating has become. Again, glad I am out of the scene now and hope I never have to go back.
 
Last edited:
Never seen any evidence of this. Only seen the opposite actually.
What I have seen is... attractive female makes convo/flirts with male and then rejects the male when asked out. It's all a matter of interpreting signs correctly.
To add to that, I think residents (and attendings) drastically overestimate their dating value.

I'll also add that you are outright wrong about this. Male residents and young attendings have extremely high value in the hospital. There is no shortage of single mother nurses, many extremely attractive that would absolutely kill to marry a physician. Going back to my story above about counting outright advances on one hand, one of those fingers counts a time that an attractive nurse grabbed my crotch and made it clear what she wanted me to do to her in no uncertain terms. However, I think that was mostly due to my status as a physician, not my appearance. I have heard many other stories like this. Have a friend who was a new attending covering the floors. Fat, not very attractive. Married and everyone knew it. Very young attractive nurse got his phone number and would not stop sending him nude photos. Watched another average resident make out and go home with not one, but two attractive therapists from a work event.

I am sorry that you are placing such a high value on facial attractiveness. While nurses going after doctors for money/status is also pretty superficial, my point is that your claim that you need to be "top 20% attractiveness in real life to do well" is completely false. It's the whole package, and if you want a good partner, then just focus on being the best you can be with all that God gave you and don't let that stuff out of your control drag you down, because nothing's more unattractive than that self-pity.
 
There are plenty of attractive female nurses that want to date physicians, so not sure why would a male doc/resident use dating websites for casual sexual encounters when there are plenty of good-looking nurses/RT/dietitians at the hospital that are open to date physicians. I have had a few indirect offers already and I have been a resident for only 4 1/2 months. But fortunately ( or maybe unfortunately 😛) I am taken already.

Med students probably have to use dating websites since they are way at the bottom of the totem pole.

Um, it’s also a good idea not to **** where you eat.

That relationship with that nurse might have seemed like a good idea in July, but after the breakup in October, when all of the nurses in the hospital now seem to hate you, you will probably regret it.

If your residency is too busy to find people outside your hospital the normal way, I would never recommend fooling around with nurses at your hospital over a dating app.
 
I really want to know from the people who are here criticizing casual sex what the line is. Ok, you think and online connection followed by sex is bad....what about meeting through a friend and having sex on the 3rd date, is that also terrible? Is the line at marriage? Do people only need to have one sexual partner their whole life? Is that what you did?
if you are genuinely curious about some of us, voluntarily abstained until marriage

I've spent over a year developing curriculum on sexual health & history taking at my medical school. People make dispositional attributions about people based on their sex lives constantly, and this is particularly an issue for LGBTQIA+ patients. Judgmental attitudes in physicians are one major reason why LGBTQIA+ individuals face so many health disparities and are afraid to seek out healthcare. The type of attitudes that have been expressed in this thread are precisely the ones that are harmful to marginalized patient populations, such as the LGBTQIA+ community. So sorry, I'm not buying your line of reasoning.

If you judge a patient because they use grindr, you shouldn't be a physician.
Sexual habits change risks and treatment indicators. I don’t judge your quality as a human based sex life but I 100% might see my treatment recommendations change based on sex life. You might be emotionally conflating those two very different situations
This thread started with a discussion of Grindr. Do you lack basic reading comprehension skills? Maybe that's why you're so uninformed.

I feel bad for your patients. It's so counterproductive to the role of a physician to be arguing for the right to judge your patients.
As a newer doctor, I will state my understanding of my role has been impacted by the knowledge/experience it took to be a doctor. You will likely experience the same if you are willing to process other views
Just a point - how does you being a senior ortho attending make any difference in opinion whether or not someone debating on the Internet with you is a medical student? I’m a fellow in a completely different field and submit that any personal experience and any expertise that you or I have (or more likely don’t have) is utterly unrelated to your position in the medical field. Now if you were a trauma psychiatrist it might mean something - but you being an ortho attending means nothing.

This isn’t your ortho rotation where you tell your medical students to shut up and put up with the hierarchy - it’s an Internet forum.
i think it’s fair to point out that we can be wrong at any point in training and being a med student doesn’t automatically make us wrong

It does, however coincidentally, happen to be right now that the one primarily arguing sex life (or other decision making/habits) doesn’t impact treatment is wrong.....and they happen to be a med student. They are wrong because they are wrong. Being only a med student might contribute to why they don’t know enough to not be wrong however

But you are right that appeal to authority is probably the wrong approach
 
I'll also add that you are outright wrong about this. Male residents and young attendings have extremely high value in the hospital. There is no shortage of single mother nurses, many extremely attractive that would absolutely kill to marry a physician. Going back to my story above about counting outright advances on one hand, one of those fingers counts a time that an attractive nurse grabbed my crotch and made it clear what she wanted me to do to her in no uncertain terms. However, I think that was mostly due to my status as a physician, not my appearance. I have heard many other stories like this. Have a friend who was a new attending covering the floors. Fat, not very attractive. Married and everyone knew it. Very young attractive nurse got his phone number and would not stop sending him nude photos. Watched another average resident make out and go home with not one, but two attractive therapists from a work event.

I am sorry that you are placing such a high value on facial attractiveness. While nurses going after doctors for money/status is also pretty superficial, my point is that your claim that you need to be "top 20% attractiveness in real life to do well" is completely false. It's the whole package, and if you want a good partner, then just focus on being the best you can be with all that God gave you and don't let that stuff out of your control drag you down, because nothing's more unattractive than that self-pity.

Agree completely. The whole “women are shallow and only go for looks” is a very limited POV, unfortunately shared by many men, mostly in the MRA arena. Looks are certainly important but by far not the main thing— and anyhow, a “6” can go to an “8” with good grooming, clothes, demeanor etc. If you have a crappy personality however, nothing will help you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Um, it’s also a good idea not to **** where you eat.

That relationship with that nurse might have seemed like a good idea in July, but after the breakup in October, when all of the nurses in the hospital now seem to hate you, you will probably regret it.

If your residency is too busy to find people outside your hospital the normal way, I would never recommend fooling around with nurses at your hospital over a dating app.
Completely agree it's a bad idea to date someone you work with. I did before and it backfired on me big time.
 
Last edited:
Agree completely. The whole “women are shallow and only go for looks” is a very limited POV, unfortunately shared by many men, mostly in the MRA arena. Looks are certainly important but by far not the main thing— and anyhow, a “6” can go to an “8” with good grooming, clothes, demeanor etc. If you have a crappy personality however, nothing will help you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Yeah I've never understood this mindset. Every girl I ever dated (including my wife) says that they started liking me because of something I did (self-effacing humor being the most common) more than anything I was.
 
if you are genuinely curious about some of us, voluntarily abstained until marriage


Sexual habits change risks and treatment indicators. I don’t judge your quality as a human based sex life but I 100% might see my treatment recommendations change based on sex life. You might be emotionally conflating those two very different situations

As a newer doctor, I will state my understanding of my role has been impacted by the knowledge/experience it took to be a doctor. You will likely experience the same if you are willing to process other views
i think it’s fair to point out that we can be wrong at any point in training and being a med student doesn’t automatically make us wrong

It does, however coincidentally, happen to be right now that the one primarily arguing sex life (or other decision making/habits) doesn’t impact treatment is wrong.....and they happen to be a med student. They are wrong because they are wrong. Being only a med student might contribute to why they don’t know enough to not be wrong however

But you are right that appeal to authority is probably the wrong approach
This is I think should be the key take-away from all of this, and someone stating otherwise that got me involved in this thread in the first place.
 
Top