1st yr med student asking about joining the Army Reserves

[frugopl]

I am contemplating joining the reserves while in med school. However, before I go talk to an AMEDD recruiter, I'd like to get some no-BS input from people who have experience being a doctor in the military (or reserves, preferably). For starters, am I deployable during med school while in the reserves? According to this:

https://www.goarmy.com/amedd/education/graduate-health-care-education.html

under the Reserve Medical Corps Program's Medical Student Stipend:

"Students enrolled in accredited medical schools are eligible for a monthly stipend of more than $2,000. Upon graduation, you'll train as part of an Army Reserve unit and serve when needed."

This implies that until I graduate, I will not be deployed. Can someone confirm/deny this? I have no problem doing a tour or two once I graduate, but if I can get deployed in the middle of med school, I might as well wait till residency to join the Reserves...

Any input from experienced members is greatly appreciated!

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[ArmyMedic]

I am contemplating joining the reserves while in med school. However, before I go talk to an AMEDD recruiter, I'd like to get some no-BS input from people who have experience being a doctor in the military (or reserves, preferably). For starters, am I deployable during med school while in the reserves? According to this:

https://www.goarmy.com/amedd/education/graduate-health-care-education.html

under the Reserve Medical Corps Program's Medical Student Stipend:

"Students enrolled in accredited medical schools are eligible for a monthly stipend of more than $2,000. Upon graduation, you'll train as part of an Army Reserve unit and serve when needed."

This implies that until I graduate, I will not be deployed. Can someone confirm/deny this? I have no problem doing a tour or two once I graduate, but if I can get deployed in the middle of med school, I might as well wait till residency to join the Reserves...

Any input from experienced members is greatly appreciated!

There are two programs that would give just over $2k to reserve members: MDSSP for med school and STRAP for residents. I couldn't find anything on deployments but I believe they are exempt until completion of school and residency, fellowships not so much.

Medical/Dental School Stipend Program (MDSSP)
Provides a monthly stipend of $2062 to individuals accepted into an accredited medical
program. Participants are assigned the primary AOC of 00E67 and branched into the
Medical Service Corps as a Second Lieutenant. Must be a US citizen. Incurs a one year
obligation in the AR for each 6 months (or partial 6 month period) of financial assistance.
Upon completion of residency training must serve in an AR Troop Program Unit,
AMEDD Professional Medical Command (APMC) or the Individual Mobilization
Augmentee Program.

Specialized Training Assistance Program (STRAP)
Stipend program for physicians in designated specialties currently enrolled in accredited
residency programs. Participants receive a monthly stipend, currently $2062.
Participants incur a 1-year obligation in the Army Reserve for every six months or
portion thereof of financial assistance. STRAP participants must serve in an Army
Reserve Troop Program Unit, AMEDD Professional Management Command, or the
Individual Mobilization Augmentee Program after completing residency; must be a U.S.
citizen. Eligible AOCs are 60C, 60J, 60K, 60N, 60S, 60T, 60W, 61F, 61H, 61J, 61K,
61M, 61N and 62A

http://ermc.amedd.army.mil/landstuhl/ameddfy11guidev1.pdf (page 14)

http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/physician/jobs-careers.html (mos codes)

 

[frugopl]

Thanks!

I have a question about going 00E67. Is it possible to do it without taking out the stipend? As in, just do what's required of me (1 wknd of drills a month and two weeks per year) without incurring extra time that normally comes with a stipend?

EDIT: what's required of me for the standard duration of the Reserves contract is what I meant

 

[notdeadyet]

For starters, am I deployable during med school while in the reserves?

You are not deployable while a medical student (providing that your MOS [specialty] is medical student, which it would be under MDSSP). You are not deployable while a resident per current policy. Meaning that once you're licensed, you could be deployed if they decided to change policy. Personally, I think this is extremely unlikely. I don't know anyone that was involuntarily deployed while in residency even during the two-front heavy tempo.

This implies that until I graduate, I will not be deployed. Can someone confirm/deny this? I have no problem doing a tour or two once I graduate, but if I can get deployed in the middle of med school, I might as well wait till residency to join the Reserves...

You will not be deployed during medical school. You will have a very, very, very small chance of being deployed during residency. Near 0% but not 0%.

Be sure to do the math on this one, though. If you take MDSSP for four years in medical school and then take 4 years of STRAP while in residency, you will owe 12 years to the military reserve after you finish residency. That is one hell of a commitment. I'm in the Reserve Corps (National Guard flavor) and am very happy with my decision, but would still caution signing up to a 12 year hitch if you're not completely sure via past experience.

Hope this helps. Feel free to post more questions...

 

[frugopl]

Thank for the input, notdeadyet. I've read your numerous responses to the ARNG post about their (no longer functioning) program for med students. It was very helpful.

Like I've said in a previous response, I am not really keen on taking out a stipend for all those years, but I am interested in being in the Reserves. If I truly need the extra money, I figure I can sign up for the stipend. We'll see. Ultimately, what I want to know is whether I can go in as 00E67 without taking the stipend, just a vanilla contract for 6 years in the reserves while in med school & residency.

 

[frugopl]

Found the answer to my question in one of your posts 🙂

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/printthread.php?t=550134&pp=50&page=58

Looks like if you're a med student, you pretty much automatically put in as 00E67 and the financial incentives in exchange for additional time are optional. (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[notdeadyet]

Looks like if you're a med student, you pretty much automatically put in as 00E67 and the financial incentives in exchange for additional time are optional. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Yes, stress on the "pretty much." You're not really eligible for another MOS without getting qualified, so as long as you sign up with a medical school acceptance in hand without going another track, you will be good.

Keep in mind for both MDSSP and STRAP that once you sign-up, you are committed to the programs. In other words, if you take MDSSP as an MS-II, you will need to continue until you finish medical school; if you take STRAP as a PGY-1, you're in until you finish residency. Just pointing this out because folks try all sorts of ways to game the system and the Army has figured out most of them.

Also, if you take MDSSP, your payback (at 2:1) does not start until AFTER residency (this is a program change from the past). In other words, if you take 4 years of MDSSP as a medical student, your 8 year payback starts after you finish residency.

 

[frugopl]

Good to know. Looks like the "payback doesn't start till after residency" part of MDSSP almost guarantees that I will pass on it, unless I find myself in really dire straits.

Bonus question: while you were in med school, how did you handle the course work along with the drills? There are some students in my school doing HPSP and they seem fine reconciling coursework with the training.

 

[notdeadyet]

Good to know. Looks like the "payback doesn't start till after residency" part of MDSSP almost guarantees that I will pass on it, unless I find myself in really dire straits.

Yeah, MDSSP used to be a better deal when you started payback in residency. When this was the case, you had lots off folks doing it in their MS 3/4 years. This way, they finished up a four year residency and had their obligation and 6 year drilling MSO paid off.

Bonus question: while you were in med school, how did you handle the course work along with the drills? There are some students in my school doing HPSP and they seem fine reconciling coursework with the training.

It's fine. HPSP is a little easier on the schedule because you have little-to-no responsibilities during most of med school, and when you do, it's devoted time (OBC, rotations, etc.).

For MDSSP and the reserve thing, if you're in a med student role, you're under Flexi-Training, which means you can drill as little as every other month. And for some states, "drill" is sitting in an armory studying. For others, though, you're working for the weekend. The command is usually flexible about when you drill to accommodate your schedule. For me while I was in med school, it was more a matter of "Shoot, I wanted to go to the river that weekend" as opposed "Shoot, I really need to study." It cut into precious free time more than it cut into precious study time, if you prioritized correctly.

 

[244913]

Yeah, MDSSP used to be a better deal when you started payback in residency. When this was the case, you had lots off folks doing it in their MS 3/4 years. This way, they finished up a four year residency and had their obligation and 6 year drilling MSO paid off.

It's fine. HPSP is a little easier on the schedule because you have little-to-no responsibilities during most of med school, and when you do, it's devoted time (OBC, rotations, etc.).

For MDSSP and the reserve thing, if you're in a med student role, you're under Flexi-Training, which means you can drill as little as every other month. And for some states, "drill" is sitting in an armory studying. For others, though, you're working for the weekend. The command is usually flexible about when you drill to accommodate your schedule. For me while I was in med school, it was more a matter of "Shoot, I wanted to go to the river that weekend" as opposed "Shoot, I really need to study." It cut into precious free time more than it cut into precious study time, if you prioritized correctly.

I never understood the NG/Reserve thing where someone would sign up during medical school and then be free and clear commitment wise by the time they finished residency. IIRC ASR had that flavor for a lot of folks.

I'm glad the .Mil got wise to that boondoggle. What a scam. I think it's shameful taking all that money without putting a damn thing on the line. What good is it having some butterbar or CPT MO hanging out at reserve drills once a month and 2 weeks a year during med school and residency? You're probably not even allowed to touch patients.

At the height of a 2 front conflict we had GMO's deployed everywhere, often going every other year, and there was a surfeit of residents (some with medical licenses no doubt) parked in these useless Reserve component ponzi schemes collecting a paycheck, getting loans paid off and doing exactly jack-****.

To each his own, I suppose.

ex-61N

 

[DeadCactus]

I never understood the NG/Reserve thing where someone would sign up during medical school and then be free and clear commitment wise by the time they finished residency. IIRC ASR had that flavor for a lot of folks.

I'm glad the .Mil got wise to that boondoggle. What a scam. I think it's shameful taking all that money without putting a damn thing on the line. What good is it having some butterbar or CPT MO hanging out at reserve drills once a month and 2 weeks a year during med school and residency? You're probably not even allowed to touch patients.

At the height of a 2 front conflict we had GMO's deployed everywhere, often going every other year, and there was a surfeit of residents (some with medical licenses no doubt) parked in these useless Reserve component ponzi schemes collecting a paycheck, getting loans paid off and doing exactly jack-****.

To each his own, I suppose.

ex-61N

Military freaked out at the doctor shortage and bought a bunch of new names for it's roster at panic prices. You're really going to hold it against people because they saw a ridiculous deal and signed up?

 

[notdeadyet]

Meh, i'll take that sentiment to heart for any doc who joins the military free and clear. For everyone else, they got the best benefits they could for the contract they signed. "Shame"? Give me a break.

 

[Gastrapathy]

What % of asr's ever saw a patient for the DOD? It was a terrible waste of money.

 

[notdeadyet]

What % of asr's ever saw a patient for the DOD? It was a terrible waste of money.

Tough to say. ASR only ran a few years and most recipients are still in med school or residency. How many will remain in beyond their commitment remains to be seen.

But I agree that it wasn't a cost effective plan. I also think a $300-450k education investment for folks who spend four years doing GMO tours to provide intern-level care before getting out is also a waste of money. But I wouldn't call what they're doing a "scam.". That's silly.

The ideal would be for the military to primarily recruit residency trained physicians. Better training, better morale, better investment. But the military has obvious problems attracting these applicants, for obvious reasons that would be tough to fix culturally.

I see military patients even while in residency, though this is made easier by my specialty (psych). I get paid for my drill weekends, though a lot less than what a civilian contractor would cost. I'm definitely not providing the same quantity of service that folks working active Army are providing, but the military's investment in me (e.g.: they didn't pay my tuition) is much, much less. It's the nature of the Reserve Corps.

 

[DeadCactus]

What % of asr's ever saw a patient for the DOD? It was a terrible waste of money.

I don't think anyone would argue that the military got a bargain through ASR. But to call participating in that program shameful? What a joke. You could just as easily argue HPSP is nothing more than kids fleeing the spectre of being financially responsible for their own education.

Everyone joins the military through their own cost/benefit calculation. There's no moral superiority in being the cheapest prostitute. I guarantee there are some ASR's who are more dedicated to military service than some HPSP recipients...

 

[frugopl]

After thinking about this some, I am curious to know whether the Navy offers a similar program for med students? I know there's the Navy FAP for residents and fellows, but can't find anything for those still in med school.

 

[notdeadyet]

After thinking about this some, I am curious to know whether the Navy offers a similar program for med students? I know there's the Navy FAP for residents and fellows, but can't find anything for those still in med school.

If you find out on your own, please post what you learn. This has been asked before. The Navy recruiting sites hammer HPSP/HCSP and FAP, but you don't see much about Navy Reserve for medical students even if you look.

 

[frugopl]

If you find out on your own, please post what you learn. This has been asked before. The Navy recruiting sites hammer HPSP/HCSP and FAP, but you don't see much about Navy Reserve for medical students even if you look.

I'll talk to both an AMEDD and a Navy recruiter and find out

 

[notdeadyet]

I'll talk to both an AMEDD and a Navy recruiter and find out

Good thinking. I'd strongly recommend making sure you're talking to a Navy MEDICAL recruiter. On the Army side, the non-medical recruiters are well meaning, but the benefits for physician/physician-track folks and the path to get there are pretty unique and they can give out some bad info without intending to.