2.88 GPA, B.S. Bio, How can I get into pharmacy school?

[BaylorPirate87]

Hello all,

This is my first post here, but I've frequently lurked here on the boards the past couple of years.

Long version: short version is at bottom
So my predicament is that I just graduated Baylor University in 4 1/2 years with a B.S. in Biology and I'm trying to get into OU pharmacy school. My overall GPA upon graduating is a staggering 2.88, but that was because my first 3 years I was on the pre-med track (my parents wishes) before I realized that it was not what I wanted to pursue, and also I was going through a rough relationship that eventually ended. I've failed (D/F) about 10 classes and I've retook 8 of them (all improved grades, but not straight A's) The only good thing is that I have great extracurriculars which I'll list at the bottom.

Anyway, it's February now and I still haven't heard back from OU pharmacy (I was pretty doubtful in getting an interview this year anyways.) Now I'm kinda stuck in limbo, I've been trying to get a pharm tech job and so far I have been unsuccessful. I was thinking maybe I could gain some experience as a pharm tech and also retake and score higher (80+) on the PCAT and reapply. My second option would be to go to grad school (is a 2.88 GPA even going to get me into grad school?) and get a masters in health administration or something related in biology.. and reapply again.

On the subject of experience as a pharm tech.. Does that really help? I've heard that it does and that some schools don't care. Also, I've heard that the PTCB certification isn't really important and I can get a pharm tech job without one.. or is it recommended that I should get certified first?


Short Version:
-Just graduated in Dec.
-2.88 with 67 composite
-will a higher PCAT help my chances greatly?
-or should I go to grad school and get a masters?
-or do post-bacc and raise GPA?
...basically which route would increase my chances at getting into pharmacy school?


my stats:
.-Cumulative GPA: 2.88
-Pharmcas GPA: 2.47
-PCAT: .86V, 60B, 88R, 54Q, 28C, 67Composite
-EC: 4 years, over 100's of hours of various volunteer work with my service fraternity (even held a leadership position at one point), also was a member of several other groups (pre pharm society, pre med society, etc)
-Fluent in another language (chinese)
-not a very strong personal statement (will work on it for next year)
-not strong letters of rec (didn't do splended in science classes or got to know any profs that well)
-no work/volunteer experience in pharmacy
-resident of oklahoma.. which will help i think..

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[boltdude]

How is it that your cumulative GPA is so far off from your PharmCAS GPA. I'm confused about that.

 

[BaylorPirate87]

Hmm, I am not sure... I've retaken a couple of classes and those grades were replaced on my official transcript. I think Pharmcas averages retaken classes with the original grade.

 

[boltdude]

Hmm, I am not sure... I've retaken a couple of classes and those grades were replaced on my official transcript. I think Pharmcas averages retaken classes with the original grade.

I see. I say you need to apply to more schools, not just one.

 

[BaylorPirate87]

Will it be worth it? I feel like the 2.88GPA and 67 composite PCAT will not be enough and I will be wasting time/money in sending out more applications..

 

[dangster]

Will it be worth it? I feel like the 2.88GPA and 67 composite PCAT will not be enough and I will be wasting time/money in sending out more applications..

if you focus on strengthening your pharmacy experience and strengthening your personal statement, you may have a chance.
show them that despite your lower than average gpa, you are still a well rounded candidate because you have experience.
try volunteering or working in a pharmacy and implement what you've learned there into your personal statement.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I'll level with you, OP.

2.88 is really bad. 2.47 PharmCAS GPA will get you auto-thrown out of basically every program in the United States.

I see a couple, not-outlandish possibilities. I definitely think a Post-Bacc, at a rigorous university, could give you a boost. You could score admittance into a Master's program in the sciences if you write a compelling prospectus and explain why the hell your academic performance has been, so far, completely abysmal.

This is not a popular opinion around here and around America where everyone is told they can be a shooting star, but have you considered that academics and science simply isn't your calling? I know, you were going through a tough time with your girlfriend, but pre-med is part and parcel the same thing as pre-pharmacy, you know? Granted, you probably have slightly more in-depth classes, but the brunt of the coursework is the same. The fact that you could not handle pre-med, and yet went searching, is telling... and I think it will be telling to anyone who reads your story.

I know I'll get flamed for the last pg. since, like I said, everyone is into "Comfort me, hold me" bullcrap, but if you don't pull your head out of your 4th point of contact, and fast, you're done.

Why do you want so badly to practice pharmacy? What makes you think your 2nd time around in difficult science classes will yield results so far away from your previous? There are a great many jobs out there, even in the health care industry, such as pharmaceutical sales, respiratory therapy, and radiological technology, that pay very well and have, more or less, the same hours as pharmacy but require far less academic prowess.

On the subject of experience as a pharm tech.. Does that really help? I've heard that it does and that some schools don't care. Also, I've heard that the PTCB certification isn't really important and I can get a pharm tech job without one.. or is it recommended that I should get certified first?

It'll help. Particularly in your position where your skill in science is, well, definitely lacking (or seems to be lacking, and perception=reality) and perhaps some time in the field can show, "Hey! I WANT this, and I am willing to do the work to get it!"

There is NO easy fix here. NONE. Anyone who wants to sell you one might as well be selling you snake oil, OP. You're at the bottom of a pit. Now, the good news about being at the bottom of a pit, is that you only have UP to go.

If I was you, and I REALLY wanted to be a pharmacist, you know what I'd do? I'd go the post-bacc. route, meanwhile getting my C.PhT and really putting in effort (Moving,if necessary) to get a job and study hard. Get As, go ~90 composite on the PCAT, and get that PharmCAS GPA up. It'll take a LOT of units to do it, but if you can somehow get it to ~2.9, you'll stand a much better chance. It'll be expensive.

In other words, get some damn life experience under your belt. You need to strive toward separating "Then" and "Now" for when you apply again. Because you have no snowball's chance in hell of getting in, ANYWHERE... Unless you happen to be a URM, I guess.

Bottom line. Make this a long term goal and go forward. You're young, I assume... so try to think ahead and use all of the people's experience that have come before you (myself included). We can apply our 20/20 hindsight to your life and you can prosper for it.

 

[UES Girl]

The GPA majority of schools will be going by will be your Pharmcas GPA not your school GPA. With a GPA below 2.5 you basically don't even meet the minimum eligibility rquirements to apply.

 

[Namishin]

I think they'll throw out your app after seeing the 2.4 gpa before reading your reason for why it's actually 2.8, and even on the off chance they get around to your explanation of a 2.8 gpa, it's still looking pretty bad. Also, is there any discernible difference between pre-med and pre-pharm?

 

[boltdude]

If you didn't pass 10 classes, you may have more serious problems than getting into pharmacy (ie depression, amotivational problems?) If so, fix it for the sake of your life rather than career motive.

 

[fujitsux]

My cumulative gpa is 2.9, science gpa is 2.7, pcat - 89. I got into pharmacy school. Apply more than one school please.

 

[suviphi]

I understand you went through a lot. I have too but also take into consideration why you want to do pharmacy. If you really got the passion for pharmacy, take this next year to really put everything you got into it. When I didn't get into pharmacy school the first time, my stats were just like yours. I had a bomb GPA, only volunteer experience in the pharmacy, hadn't taken the PCAT, and had a weak personal statement. In this next year, I took a bunch of classes, took the PCATs, pretty much put my entire application on steroids and nailed a bunch of interviews and got really lucky. If you really want it, the openings are there for you but you got to plan ahead and take initiative. When I got hired, it took more than 50 phone calls til I nailed one job. It's an uphill battle but not impossible.

 

[Passion4Sci]

my cumulative gpa is 2.9, science gpa is 2.7, pcat - 89. I got into pharmacy school. Apply more than one school please.

urm?

 

[boltdude]

My cumulative gpa is 2.9, science gpa is 2.7, pcat - 89. I got into pharmacy school. Apply more than one school please.

What school did you get into? Nice PCAT.

 

[fujitsux]

What does that suppose to mean sci4passion?

@boltdude - I got into Midwestern University of Chicago

 

[alexd10]

Firstly, I would rewrite the PCAT if I were the OP. I mean, in terms of the difficulty of material, it's mostly a high-school level test, you should definitely be scoring higher than 28 in chemistry and 60 in bio.

 

[Passion4Sci]

What does that suppose to mean sci4passion?

@boltdude - I got into Midwestern University of Chicago

Fujit, are you an Under-Represented Minority (URM)?

 

[boltdude]

Fujit, are you an Under-Represented Minority (URM)?

Even if he/she was, I doubt it would have really helped him/her since Midwestern is a private school.

 

[Dezixn]

What about that deal-e-o where you can wipe your college record clean and start over?

 

[boltdude]

What about that deal-e-o where you can wipe your college record clean and start over?

I think the University of Utah and University of Southern Nevada (?) lets you do that after 5 yrs or so.

 

[fujitsux]

There is alot of asians there and i don't think i fall into any of that URM category.

 

[Transformer]

My cumulative gpa is 2.9, science gpa is 2.7, pcat - 89. I got into pharmacy school. Apply more than one school please.

fujitsux, assuming the above are pharmCAS stats, you won't have a problem getting interviews and getting accepted to non-California private schools. And if u apply to midwestern early, they will send u an interview invite with those stats (especially the one in Chicago). And of course you got accepted there!

My point is the OP has a pharmCAS GPA of lower than 2.5!! Like some have already mentioned, that doesn't even meet many of the pharmacy school's minimum requirement to apply.

Op, If pharmacy is what you truly want to do as a career, I would first volunteer or work at a retail or hospital pharmacy as a clerk and/or technician and rethink whether retaking science classes for the next 1 or 2 years to pull up 0.3 to 0.5 of your pharmCAS GPA is worth it. (I was in a similar situation and It took me awhile to get accepted. Do doubt it will be an intensive uphill battle for you to get accepted!) Stay Positive and Persistent! Good luck!

 

[Transformer]

I think the University of Utah and University of Southern Nevada (?) lets you do that after 5 yrs or so.

Yes, retake your classes and apply to USN or any pharmacy schools that offers Academic Forgiveness!!

 

[Passion4Sci]

I mentioned A.F.

Did no one read my post?

Of course not.

 

[rxlea]

I read your post.

::Scoff @ academic forgiveness.

 

[ucm24]

I agree with passion4sci on his earlier post. I wanted to say the same thing but I didn't want to sound mean. You have to be realistic. That low of a gpa won't cut it. You need experience and post-bac work. Sorry... Atleast we are telling you the truth

 

[rxlea]

I agree with passion4sci on his earlier post. I wanted to say the same thing but I didn't want to sound mean. You have to be realistic. That low of a gpa won't cut it. You need experience and post-bac work. Sorry... Atleast we are telling you the truth

Why apologize for telling the truth?

OP- why do you want to go into pharmacy? What made you change from premed?

 

[Passion4Sci]

Why apologize for telling the truth?

OP- why do you want to go into pharmacy? What made you change from premed?

He said because his parents forced him into it, and he didn't actually like it... I think.

 

[BaylorPirate87]

He said because his parents forced him into it, and he didn't actually like it... I think.

Correct, It wasn't my decision to make.

Well I've always thought my GPA as a whole would be more forgivable since I've taken 4 years of college. Most Pre-Pharm students take just the basic pre-pharm requirements and jump straight to pharmacy school in 2 years, basically their GPA won't suffer from the hard 4000 level science courses. My grades in all of the pre-pharmacy required courses were fine, it's the upper level courses (such as human physiology and cell and molecular development) that destroyed me.

Well the reason I wanted to do pharmacy wasn't so much that I had a passion in drugs per say, but more of a practical outlook in a career. It's a well-paying, stable job with regular hours and a clean environment. I'd love to deal with people on a day to day basis, and the job outlook is very good! I'm sure at least 80% of the people who want to do pharmacy don't honestly have a super passion for drugs and also look at the obvious career benefits and stability.

Anyway, I think I'm gonna go with what passion4sci (thank you for your honest reply!) suggested and do some post-bacc and retake the PCAT. I'm curious, you mentioned it would take a lot of units to bump my GPA up. Do you have a rough estimate of how long that would take? I was hoping it wouldn't be more than 1 year of post-bacc work.

Oh and quick question about post-bacc. For the classes I should be taking, I should be going for the upper level chemistry/biology classes right?

 

[dopegirlfresh]

I mentioned A.F.

Did no one read my post?

Of course not.

Everybody should love this man's posts.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Everybody should love this man's posts.

Pretty much.

 

[MrsAppleseed]

It's a well-paying, stable job with regular hours and a clean environment. I'd love to deal with people on a day to day basis, and the job outlook is very good!

I am certainly not trying to start any sort of "the future of the pharmacist" fracas, but

1) I have worked in varying pharmacies (retail, hospital, clinical trials) for 8 years and many of the pharmacists that have been working for 10, 20, 30 years, who have always told me they loved their careers, aren't entirely sure what the future of their careers holds. It is not as stable as it was 5 or 10 years ago.

2) It's your life. You have to be happy with what you're doing because it affects so many other areas of your life. I know that sounds like new age garbage and when one is younger, one thinks, "oh, I can do any job for $xxx,xxx.00 amount of money." Except you can't. I just left a ridiculously good paying job doing something I hated and while the money was fah-bu-lous, I cried every day on my way to work and hid in the bathroom sitting area b/c doing the work made me physically ill, and it wasn't anything sketchy, it was actuarial work. MATH. (I have a B.S. in Math, so it's not like it was difficult.) I hated it that much.
Do what you want to do, not what you think you should do.

I'm sure at least 80% of the people who want to do pharmacy don't honestly have a super passion for drugs and also look at the obvious career benefits and stability.

3) I can tell you that far less than 80% of people go into pharmacy for the money. If that's why you're doing it, you'll change your mind later in life and decide you want to do something else and be in this similar position all over again. Don't believe me? Go look up the high end salary of an actuary (F.S.A.) after 15 years of work. My old manager made around $400k/year for not a whole lot of work. Why would I leave that? Um, because it's not what I wanted to do and I was doing it for the money.

I'm not trying to say I know everything or that you will fail, but you need to be sure that this is what you want to do, especially with less than stellar stats. Do what you want to do because when you're doing what you want to do, you'll do it well.

EDIT: Sorry, I initially read that you wanted to go pre-med, but your parents suggested pharmacy. Surprisingly, I did really well in the verbal on the PCAT, even in reading comprehension. ;o)

 

[rxlea]

Many people genuinely like pharmacology and patient care. Many people are passionate about making pharmacy their career, but becoming and being a pharmacist is no easy task so be sure this is what you truly want to do with your life. And hate to tell ya, but the courses in pharmacy school are going to be harder than your upper division classes you couldn't handle. Don't be one of those pharmacy school drop outs.

 

[boltdude]

Many people genuinely like pharmacology and patient care. Many people are passionate about making pharmacy their career, but becoming and being a pharmacist is no easy task so be sure this is what you truly want to do with your life. And hate to tell ya, but the courses in pharmacy school are going to be harder than your upper division classes you couldn't handle. Don't be one of those pharmacy school drop outs.

I actually sort of disagree with that. From what I hear from current pharmacy students (and I admit it's just hearsay) the courses are not necessarily harder but rather, there is much more material to know. This very well depends on the university one went to. Going to an elite undergraduate university will prepare one better than say someone doing 2 years of pre-pharmacy courses or going to a less rigorous 4 year college. Let's face it, a 3.0 at a school like Berkeley or MIT is probably equivalent to a 3.5+ at Chico State.

 

[rxlea]

I do see your point, but if you look at the curriculum and the amount of credits for P2 and P3 years, if somebody was having trouble in cell bio in undergrad, they certainly might have trouble handling 17 credits that cover material you can't just pump and dump- you have to know it for the classes after it and you have to know it for your career.

 

[boltdude]

I do see your point, but if you look at the curriculum and the amount of credits for P2 and P3 years, if somebody was having trouble in cell bio in undergrad, they certainly might have trouble handling 17 credits that cover material you can't just pump and dump- you have to know it for the classes after it and you have to know it for your career.

Yeah, anyone who has trouble in courses like cell bio or physiology will have a tough time in pharmacology, etc

 

[phathead]

You are actually incorrect in that the vast majority of applicants have at least 3 years of schooling behind them. Pretty much everyone in my interviews had a 4 year degree or were almost done with it.

I was in a similar boat, so I will share my stats - http://www.iwanttobeapharmacist.com/2009/08/my-pharmacy-school-admissions-stats.html

I received an interview offer from all 5 schools I applied to.

The big thing I see is that schools really, really do not like to see a downward trend in grades.

I'll be the big dick here, the pre-reqs between medical school and pharmacy school are not that different. You earn the same basic knowledge your first two years and even the majority of upper division courses are the same. If you couldn't handle the upper division courses, that may be a pretty big red flag because those are the type of courses you will be taking in pharmacy school and adcoms do not like to see you doing poorly in it.

Like Sci said, you'll need to do some post-BAC and you will have to do very well in it in addition to retaking the PCAT. Your Chem score alone is well below the minimum threshold for many schools. Remember that pharmacy is pretty much advanced chemistry, so that may be the most important individual to look at.

It will not be an easy road by any means, but it is possible. I wish you luck.

 

[waterloggedfrog]

I think it depends on whether or not you did poorly in the upper level science classes because you didn't study very much or because you did study a lot but couldn't grasp the material. If you didn't study very much, just do what everyone is saying and do some post work but this time study a lot. I think most pharmacists are at least interested in the science of pharmacy.

 

[BaylorPirate87]

Man... I really screwed up. I'm starting to think my GPA will take way too long to fix. Especially my science GPA, which is a 2.0. I am the classic example of the college screw up by partying too much and not studying enough. FML

Any suggestions on what I can do with a BS Bio degree? I also have a minor in Chemistry if that makes any difference. I'd like to stay in the health care industry or something science related, since that's what I went to school for. Pharmacy school just seems so far out of reach..

 

[phathead]

Man... I really screwed up. I'm starting to think my GPA will take way too long to fix. Especially my science GPA, which is a 2.0. I am the classic example of the college screw up by partying too much and not studying enough. FML

Any suggestions on what I can do with a BS Bio degree? I also have a minor in Chemistry if that makes any difference. I'd like to stay in the health care industry or something science related, since that's what I went to school for. Pharmacy school just seems so far out of reach..

You don't have to give up, I had a 2.2 GPA after my first two years, but I've come a long way since then.

If you can get into a post-BAC program and do really well, you'll be fine.

And generally, people with just a BS in general bio... well from my friends experience it doesn't really do anything. They either want you to specify your bio degree or go for a Masters/PhD.

Granted there are exceptions, but that's been the case for all of my friends thus far.

 

[Passion4Sci]

You're not a total lost cause. Like I said, and like Phathead said, and like so many people said... it is going to take a long time. If you're dedicated to becoming a Pharmacist you CAN do it.

But, it's going to be a long-term goal. There is no over-night fix for the damage that you did. At least the parties were fun, right?

Have you thought about Nursing, Respiratory Therapy, Radiological Technology, or Physician's Assistant type careers? Still decent pay, good hours and working conditions, and will require less rigorous academic achievement.

 

[nicolemsm]

Man... I really screwed up. I'm starting to think my GPA will take way too long to fix. Especially my science GPA, which is a 2.0. I am the classic example of the college screw up by partying too much and not studying enough. FML

Any suggestions on what I can do with a BS Bio degree? I also have a minor in Chemistry if that makes any difference. I'd like to stay in the health care industry or something science related, since that's what I went to school for. Pharmacy school just seems so far out of reach..

How about nursing?
You could easily get into an accelerated BSN program created specifically for 2nd degree seeking students.... Nursing is very forgiving with grades.... plus it's right around the medical alley. Pay may not be "as great" but it sure as heck will beat any pay a Bio major w/ a BS would make w/out any kind of higher degree.



Food for thought?

 

[chemguy79]

Man... I really screwed up. I'm starting to think my GPA will take way too long to fix. Especially my science GPA, which is a 2.0. I am the classic example of the college screw up by partying too much and not studying enough. FML

Any suggestions on what I can do with a BS Bio degree? I also have a minor in Chemistry if that makes any difference. I'd like to stay in the health care industry or something science related, since that's what I went to school for. Pharmacy school just seems so far out of reach..

If you're worried about the length of time that it will take you to "repair" your GPA, you should remember that it took a certain amount of time to get your current GPA.

During my sophomore year of undergrad, I managed a classy 1.375 GPA. While I should have withdrawn from school due to personal issues, I was stubborn and struggled, obtaining a ton of F's in the process. Even though I had a 3.9 GPA my first semester of college, I had to spend the next 3 years as a Chemistry major at a 3.4 GPA in order to bring my cumulative GPA above 3.0. Even after graduating from undergrad, I earned a 3.5+ in earning my M.S. in Chemistry; However, I'm sure that I'll have to address my 1.375 GPA from over 10 years ago in the application process next fall.

Honestly, I doubt that you'll be able to fix it in just a year; If you're genuinely interested in becoming a pharmacist, you'll have to spend the next year getting your GPA up to snuff in order to apply for the following year.

If your primary concern is having a stable career, I'd think about Nursing, Respiratory Therapy, Radiological Technology, or Physician's Assistant ... as Passion4Sci mentioned. I would think that struggling in the upper level classes would be a major red flag that you need to spend a year addressing prior to applying to pharmacy school.

 

[boltdude]

Guys, PA school is hard to get into as well, especially when many PAs make as much as pharmacists ( or more) and even some MDs.

The usefulness of a bio degree depends on location. Unfortunately, I don't think you will have many opportunities in Oklahoma. You'll have much more opportunities in California though or Boston.

 

[dashing]

Guys, PA school is hard to get into as well, especially when many PAs make as much as pharmacists ( or more) and even some MDs.

The usefulness of a bio degree depends on location. Unfortunately, I don't think you will have many opportunities in Oklahoma. You'll have much more opportunities in California though or Boston.

My advice: Just try again and retake classes - they're MUCH easier the second time. I don't know your school's policy, but mine allows us to retake any class up to three times and replaces with the higher grade. If you really want to be a pharmacist, don't give up on your dream! (and BTW: the nursing I know of are REALLY competitive, too)