2 DUI's and admission

[dentaldanny]

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Hello all, I recently got into dental school with a DUI. A classmate of mine, who has 2 DUI's and similar stats (3.25 cGPA, ~3.1 sGPA, upward trend; no DAT; 1 year as a dental assistant, ~200 hours of volunteering experience), is graduating next year and was considering dental school until she received her second DUI last fall. She has given up hope, but I personally think she has a chance. I do not think she is an alcoholic, just a college student who likes to party on the weekends. She is an outstanding person and fell victim to unfortunate circumstances on her 2nd arrest, although she takes full responsibility and blames no one other than herself. I'm not saying she "fell victim to unfortunate circumstances" to justify what she did, but she was never planning on driving that night (until the unfortunate circumstances occurred). I have been her friend since she was a Freshman and I never saw her drive or consider driving after drinking. After this happened she voluntarily went to therapy regarding her alcohol use and her therapist deemed her problem more as a maturity issue (I.E. college partying) than a substance abuse issue.

Anyway, I think if she took postbac classes to raise her GPA, continued volunteering and working, put time between the incident and applying, and killed the DAT, she would have a shot at admittance somewhere. She disagrees. And that is why I'm here. Do you guys think she has a shot? Are there any dental ADCOMS on here willing to share their opinions?

Thanks ya'll. Go Eagles.

 

[deleted480308]

I hope she doesn’t. Repeatedly risking other people’s lives makes you unworthy of this role

 

[dentaldanny]

I hope she doesn’t. Repeatedly risking other people’s lives makes you unworthy of this role

I despise drunk driving and despise myself for doing it when I was young. This is a great person who has made bad choices. I'm not here for ridicule or to argue about the morality of what she did. I'm only here for serious opinions on her shot of admission.

 

[ab117]

Uh.... wow. Despite what you say it sounds a lot like you’re trying to excuse getting two DUIs. This sounds a lot like when judges give criminals light sentences outside of guidelines and ironically claim the perp has lived an otherwise guiltless life or come from a good family. Yeah, otherwise guiltless aside from the crimes they’re being prosecuted for. She can certainly try to downplay the circumstances, but 1 DUI is certainly NOT not a big deal already, and a big part of screening applicants is evidence of improvement and learning from mistakes when they do get made. You can always say “anything is possible”, and it might be, but not learning from her first mistake is going to be a huge red flag if not a straight-up black mark.

Especially when the mistake isn’t bad grades first semester, but risking other people’s lives. I’d say very low chances if any.

 

[deleted480308]

I despise drunk driving and despise myself for doing it when I was young. This is a great person who has made bad choices. I'm not here for ridicule or to argue about the morality of what she did. I'm only here for serious opinions on her shot of admission.

I gave mine. We can disagree on this one

 

[artist2022]

I have been her friend since she was a Freshman and I never saw her drive or consider driving after drinking.

She did it at least twice though.... and those were the times she was caught. She may definitely be a great person and everything, but twice is two times too many. I'm not an adcom but I think people like @Goro, @Catalystik, @gyngyn, & @Mr.Smile12 would probably be able to offer the best advice. Even though most of them are from the med school side, I wouldn't say that med and dental schools view their applicants all too differently.

 

[dentaldanny]

Uh.... wow. Despite what you say it sounds a lot like you’re trying to excuse getting two DUIs. This sounds a lot like when judges give criminals light sentences outside of guidelines and ironically claim the perp has lived an otherwise guiltless life or come from a good family. Yeah, otherwise guiltless aside from the crimes they’re being prosecuted for. She can certainly try to downplay the circumstances, but 1 DUI is certainly NOT not a big deal already, and a big part of screening applicants is evidence of improvement and learning from mistakes when they do get made. You can always say “anything is possible”, and it might be, but not learning from her first mistake is going to be a huge red flag if not a straight-up black mark.

Especially when the mistake isn’t bad grades first semester, but risking other people’s lives. I’d say very low chances if any.

I'm really not trying to downplay it, I'm sorry if I came off that way. She DEFINITELY doesn't downplay it, though. She fully understands the severity of what she did.

 

[gyngyn]

This wouldn't get past screening at my school.

 

[dentaldanny]

This wouldn't get past screening at my school.

I appreciate your input. Thank you.

 

[ab117]

She did it at least twice though.... and those were the times she was caught. She may definitely be a great person and everything, but twice is two times too many.

Isn't getting even one DUI already evidence that maybe one isn't as great a person as one thinks? Yeah, people are complicated, and yeah people can make mistakes and come back from them, but that's still a major hit.

I would say that morally she should recognize - before even thinking about applying - that she may not possess the judgment required to become a high-level professional responsible for the care and health of other people.

She fully understands the severity of what she did.

Does she though? That's an extremely tenuous position to maintain after getting TWO DUIs. If it had been like, a few years with no other lapses, then I'd believe that MAY be true but probably wouldn't let her borrow my car. I'm extremely skeptical if it was at all recent.

 

[dentaldanny]

Isn't getting even one DUI already evidence that maybe one isn't as great a person as one thinks? Yeah, people are complicated, and yeah people can make mistakes and come back from them, but that's still a major hit.

I would say that morally she should recognize - before even thinking about applying - that she may not possess the judgment required to become a high-level professional responsible for the care and health of other people.


Does she though? That's an extremely tenuous position to maintain after getting TWO DUIs. If it had been like, a few years with no other lapses, then I'd believe that MAY be true but still be skeptical. I'm extremely skeptical if it was at all recent.

They were 4 years apart. Again, I'm not trying to justify what she did, but she pulled over less than a mile away from where she was to call for a ride and thats when a cop approached her.

 

[Catalystik]

Hello all, I recently got into dental school with a DUI. A classmate of mine, who has 2 DUI's and similar stats (3.25 cGPA, ~3.1 sGPA, upward trend; no DAT; 1 year as a dental assistant, ~200 hours of volunteering experience), is graduating next year and was considering dental school until she received her second DUI last fall. She has given up hope, but I personally think she has a chance. I do not think she is an alcoholic, just a college student who likes to party on the weekends. She is an outstanding person and fell victim to unfortunate circumstances on her 2nd arrest, although she takes full responsibility and blames no one other than herself. I'm not saying she "fell victim to unfortunate circumstances" to justify what she did, but she was never planning on driving that night (until the unfortunate circumstances occurred). I have been her friend since she was a Freshman and I never saw her drive or consider driving after drinking. After this happened she voluntarily went to therapy regarding her alcohol use and her therapist deemed her problem more as a maturity issue (I.E. college partying) than a substance abuse issue.

Anyway, I think if she took postbac classes to raise her GPA, continued volunteering and working, put time between the incident and applying, and killed the DAT, she would have a shot at admittance somewhere. She disagrees. And that is why I'm here. Do you guys think she has a shot? Are there any dental ADCOMS on here willing to share their opinions?

She did it at least twice though.... and those were the times she was caught. She may definitely be a great person and everything, but twice is two times too many. I'm not an adcom but I think people like @Goro, @Catalystik, @gyngyn, & @Mr.Smile12 would probably be able to offer the best advice. Even though most of them are from the med school side, I wouldn't say that med and dental schools view their applicants all too differently.

What is considered a DUI varies so much from state to state that it would be important to know more details before making a final pronouncement, but the rare instances in which I've seen med school applicants get an acceptance after one DUI occurred 4-8 years after the incidents. I can't recall any with two on their record.

Edit: I see more details were added about one of the episodes. She wasn't just sitting in a parked car with keys in her hand, never intending to drive it.

 

[ab117]

I mean, I'm not just trying rip on your friend either, but it's a big deal and will likely be seen very negatively if not outright screen her out of most programs. Just telling you how I think it'll be perceived. If she were to even get any interviews and say: "well I only drove a mile", it'll just sound like she's justifying what was clearly a big mistake that she'd already made before, and therefore didn't learn from.

 

[Goro]

Hello all, I recently got into dental school with a DUI. A classmate of mine, who has 2 DUI's and similar stats (3.25 cGPA, ~3.1 sGPA, upward trend; no DAT; 1 year as a dental assistant, ~200 hours of volunteering experience), is graduating next year and was considering dental school until she received her second DUI last fall. She has given up hope, but I personally think she has a chance. I do not think she is an alcoholic, just a college student who likes to party on the weekends. She is an outstanding person and fell victim to unfortunate circumstances on her 2nd arrest, although she takes full responsibility and blames no one other than herself. I'm not saying she "fell victim to unfortunate circumstances" to justify what she did, but she was never planning on driving that night (until the unfortunate circumstances occurred). I have been her friend since she was a Freshman and I never saw her drive or consider driving after drinking. After this happened she voluntarily went to therapy regarding her alcohol use and her therapist deemed her problem more as a maturity issue (I.E. college partying) than a substance abuse issue.

Anyway, I think if she took postbac classes to raise her GPA, continued volunteering and working, put time between the incident and applying, and killed the DAT, she would have a shot at admittance somewhere. She disagrees. And that is why I'm here. Do you guys think she has a shot? Are there any dental ADCOMS on here willing to share their opinions?

Thanks ya'll. Go Eagles.

Your friend is showing that she doesn't learn her lesson, and she'd be rejected at my school as well.

They were 4 years apart. Again, I'm not trying to justify what she did, but she pulled over less than a mile away from where she was to call for a ride and thats when a cop approached her.
100% irrelevant.

 

[artist2022]

Isn't getting even one DUI already evidence that maybe one isn't as great a person as one thinks? Yeah, people are complicated, and yeah people can make mistakes and come back from them, but that's still a major hit.

I was going based off of the words he/she used to describe her, that even though they may think she's a great person, twice is two times too many. There are definitely many applicants around the country with higher stats and 0 DUIs for sure.

I would say that morally she should recognize - before even thinking about applying - that she may not possess the judgment required to become a high-level professional responsible for the care and health of other people.

I agree. People can bounce back after years of work with one DUI as mentioned above by the adcoms, but TWO shows a serious lack of judgement and immaturity.

We aren't trying to crush your friend's hopes and dreams, but we're trying to be as realistic as we can about her situation. I'm sure there are many exceptions and many unique cases and she may get into a school, but the chances of that are extremely unlikely at the moment, unfortunately :/

 

[ab117]

I was going based off of the words he/she used to describe her

Right, I didn't mean that to sound like I was questioning you, I was also trying to question his statement with your words haha.

 

[Faefly]

I don't think she has a chance this year. She needs to do something to change her life and prove she has changed completely.
and no, working full time won't cut it! She is just benefiting herself. Who wouldn't work full time to benefit themselves! Has nothing to do with being mature or changing your old ways!

Like do a full year of volunteering somewhere to help people who are alcoholics or addicted, these kinds of jobs that you selflessly do, not just 2 hours a week or so, no a full-time job helping young people who struggle with addiction and stuff. Doing podcasts and youtube videos, speeches against driving and drinking. etc etc

Do you see what I am saying?


I see a girl with 2 DUI, bye!

I see a girl who changed her whole life after 2 mistakes and inspired others to change.. I say oh wow! This girl has learned from her stupid mistakes and she is mature enough to be invited for an interview here!

 

[Osminog]

She got caught twice, but any reasonable person would rightfully assume that she's driven under the influence plenty of other times without getting caught.

I don't know if your friend will get in, but I hope she doesn't. A dentist is entrusted with the responsibility of serving the public good, and through her actions, your friend has proven herself to be a danger to the public — someone who prioritizes her own hedonistic lifestyle and personal convenience over the well-being of innocent people on the road.

 

[princeafrica]

Did you need to explain your DUI during your cycle?

 

[FanOfCostco]

every post i see where its "my friend" always makes me suspicious. but i guess theres always a possibility that people dont have internet.

 

[Likkriue]

So as a good friend of hers, it just happens the only TWO times she drove drunk she got caught.

Think about that for bit. She’s probably been doing this forever. I know how it is because I’ve seen it.

 

[princeafrica]

So as a good friend of hers, it just happens the only TWO times she drove drunk she got caught.

Think about that for bit. She’s probably been doing this forever. I know how it is because I’ve seen it.

Likkriue thinks like an adcom

 

[Life of Pablo]

Hell no. There are plenty of deserving applicants out there that have no DUIs. Having a DUI in this day and age when there are apps called "Uber" and "Lyft" that will, literally, drive right up to you and pick you up is ridiculous and irresponsible.

 

[Faris_]

One DUI is possibly uncharacteristic, two DUIs is definitely characteristic of her as a person. on an average people are caught one time for every 10 times driving under the influence (whether this static is right or wrong, it is reasonable). Maybe she isn't an alcoholic but she definitely has no regard to the safety of others and I have no doubt she has driven drunk more than twice.

 

[catchandrelease]

I think she still have a chance, but it would require a lot of time to make it happen. People tend to forgive in a few years. She can use that extra time volunteering and working with AA program. She also need to make sure her stats are top notch by doing a master and scoring a high DAT. Everything from now on have to be perfect.

 

[Cthuluhoop]

A major difference is you said you despise what you did when you were young. Your friend did this not only once when they were young, but they just did this less than a year ago. There's an argument of saying that you matured if there are years between your first and only DUI. If you received one when you were younger, and then received one a few years later, you obviously learned nothing and didn't mature.

Very bad look, I had lots of friends who liked to "party on the weekends" and none of them received a DUI

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I do not think she is an alcoholic, just a college student who likes to party on the weekends.

It’s all fun and games until this happens...

Imagine drunkenly firing a gun towards a crowd of people, but not hitting anyone. Do you think this person would ever be allowed to own a gun again when they got out of jail? Why on earth do we allow people to drive again after a DUI? I’ll never get it, both are potentially dangerous tools. You want to put your own life at risk? Go for it, but don’t you dare put my life or my family’s lives at risk because you like to “party on the weekends.”

Big Hoss

 

[deleted942432]

It’s all fun and games until this happens...

View attachment 273768

Imagine drunkenly firing a gun towards a crowd of people, but not hitting anyone. Do you think this person would ever be allowed to own a gun again when they got out of jail? Why on earth do we allow people to drive again after a DUI? I’ll never get it, both are potentially dangerous tools. You want to put your own life at risk? Go for it, but don’t you dare put my life or my family’s lives at risk because you like to “party on the weekends.”

Big Hoss

If you stay off the road after 12am on the weekends, then you and your family have nothing to worry about.

 

[ab117]

You serious?

If you stay off the road after 12am on the weekends, then you and your family have nothing to worry about.

Really hope this is sarcasm I’m not catching. Nobody should have to modify their normal behavior because of someone else’s actions causing a normal situation to now be unsafe. Yes, that’s idealized, yes of course it happens anyway, but that’s the point of laws and society. The burden shouldn’t be on me to know that somebody else is doing something dangerous and illegal and I should avoid it, the burden is on people who may want to do dangerous and illegal things despite the danger they pose to others not to do those things.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

“Every day, 29 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This is one death every 50 minutes. The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $44 billion.”

“In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.”

“Of the 1,233 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2016, 214 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.”

Impaired Driving: Get the Facts | Motor Vehicle Safety | CDC Injury Center

www.cdc.gov

Big Hoss

 

[Faefly]

If you stay off the road after 12am on the weekends, then you and your family have nothing to worry about.

What about the people who have to work at night?
Or heck, they like to walk at night, go out at night!
Study at night and return back from their library!

Plus people who drink and drive can do that at any time of the day!

 

[deleted942432]

What about the people who have to work at night?
Or heck, they like to walk at night, go out at night!
Study at night and return back from their library!

Plus people who drink and drive can do that at any time of the day!

Calm your horses, that was a sacarsitic reply to Hoss "don’t you dare put my life or my family’s lives at risk because you like to “party on the weekends.” You won't be able to stop drinking and driving, it will never end. If you dont want to be at risk, take preventive actions. Also I'm sure a lot of you drove with a couple beers in your system before. Depending on the person tolerance, weight, and metabolism, two beers can get you over the blood alcohol limit, even though you feel normal. Dont throw stones if you live in a glass house.

 

[Likkriue]

Calm your horses, that was a sacarsitic reply to Hoss "don’t you dare put my life or my family’s lives at risk because you like to “party on the weekends.” You won't be able to stop drinking and driving, it will never end. If you dont want to be at risk, take preventive actions. Also I'm sure a lot of you drove with a couple beers in your system before. Depending on the person tolerance, weight, and metabolism, two beers can get you over the blood alcohol limit, even though you feel normal. Dont throw stones if you live in a glass house.

That’s a big assumption, I’ve never driven drunk and never will.

 

[deleted942432]

That’s a big assumption, I’ve never driven drunk and never will.

You probably didnt know that you were 🙂

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

You won't be able to stop drinking and driving, it will never end.

You’re right. But, if we actually started prosecuting it according to how serious it really is, it would go way down.

Lifetime loss of driving privileges? You bet many more people would have a plan to get home. Vehicular homicide sentencing on par with good ol’ fashion homicide? You bet. Then again, if it was my family you hurt, the sentence from the judge would be the least of your problems.




Big Hoss

 

[FanOfCostco]

Is this even about the original post anymore

 

[deleted942432]

If they willing to drive drunk and put themself and others in harm way, do you think taking away their license is gonna stop them? Be serious

 

[HuskersForTD]

Do the best she can. If she is committed, she should apply and see what happened. It does come with a cost (money, time, and knowledge for the dat) I wish her best of luck

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Do the best she can. If she is committed, she should apply and see what happened. It does come with a cost (money, time, and knowledge for the dat) I wish her best of luck

Even if they get into dental school and subsequently graduate, will the state give them a dental license with two DUIs on their record?

Big Hoss

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

If they willing to drive drunk and put themself and others in harm way, do you think taking away their license is gonna stop them? Be serious

It will if they’ll spend the next 3-5 years in prison being found behind the wheel sober after having their driving privileges revoked for DUI, 10-15 years if they were DUI again. Like I said, I will never understood why DUI is considered such a petty offense.

Big Hoss

 

[deleted942432]

So 1 dui, and your life is over? Is that what you saying? You should of went into politic instead

 

[Osminog]

So 1 dui, and your life is over? Is that what you saying? You should of went into politic instead

We get it. You don't think driving under the influence is a big deal, and you don't think getting caught should harm someone's chances of becoming a health professional. Good for you. Every year, thousands of innocent people are severely injured or killed in America because of the actions of drunk drivers. Maybe if you or your family member were directly affected by this issue, you'd feel differently.

 

[deleted942432]

Of course it a big deal, but it shouldn't be a death sentence. If a patient dies or was misdiagnosed under your care, should you lose your license forever? Mistake happen, there countless stories of doctor making mistakes and patients dies under routine surgery.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

So 1 dui, and your life is over? Is that what you saying? You should of went into politic instead

My cousin only has one DUI. You know what he got from it? Paraplegia.

Big Hoss

 

[deleted942432]

We get it. You don't think driving under the influence is a big deal, and you don't think getting caught should harm someone's chances of becoming a health professional. Good for you. Every year, thousands of innocent people are severely injured or killed in America because of the actions of drunk drivers. Maybe if you or your family member were directly affected by this issue, you'd feel differently.

I also said it would require a lot of time and commitment for OP friend to right her wrong.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Of course it a big deal, but it shouldn't be a death sentence. If a patient dies or was misdiagnosed under your care, should you lose your license forever? Mistake happen, there countless stories of doctor making mistakes and patients dies under routine surgery.

Drunk driving isn’t a mistake. It is a choice.

Big Hoss

 

[deleted942432]

Drunk driving isn’t a mistake. It is a choice.

Big Hoss

You probably never been drunk. Sometime you have no intention of drinking and driving, but had one too many and cannot control yourself anymore. Good ppl can make dumb mistakes.

 

[ab117]

You probably never been drunk. Sometime you have no intention of drinking and driving, but had one too many and cannot control yourself anymore. Good ppl can make dumb mistakes.

That’s still an invalid justification for doing something that’s objectively bad.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

You probably never been drunk. Sometime you have no intention of drinking and driving, but had one too many and cannot control yourself anymore. Good ppl can make dumb mistakes.

If people just can’t control themselves, are you arguing we bring back the 18th Amendment? I’m fine with that.

Big Hoss

 

[deleted942432]

If people just can’t control themselves, are you arguing we bring back the 18th Amendment? I’m fine with that.

Big Hoss

How did that work out the first time?