2007-2008 Personal Statement Question Thread

[DropkickMurphy]

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A Hokie is essentially a loyal Virginia Tech supporter. The HokieBird, our mascot, is a turkey. A turkey is not a Hokie.

"Hokie" was once part of a spirit chant, and it was adopted as the nickname. A VT football fan used to bring his pet turkey to games, and the turkey was adopted as the mascot. Both events were separate and happened a very long ago.

Unless you attended the University, no one would expect you to find an immediate connection.

Thanks for the clarification....I figured it was a colloquialism for a turkey or something......

 

[DropkickMurphy]

My response is this: if you want to be an osteopath, why in the world would you wait to talk about it? You want to get a secondary and you want to interview. Talk about your interest in osteopathy now.

I can give one reason...an example that probably applies to 3/4 of those applying to osteopathic programs: they don't want to be osteopathic physicians so much as just physicians and they are simply hedging their bets by applying broadly. Delaying the discussion of "Why DO?" simply gives them fewer chances to botch the answer.

 

[emaj1n]

I can give one reason...an example that probably applies to 3/4 of those applying to osteopathic programs: they don't want to be osteopathic physicians so much as just physicians and they are simply hedging their bets by applying broadly. Delaying the discussion of "Why DO?" simply gives them fewer chances to botch the answer.

And if you can't give a convincing answer as to why you think osteopathic medicine is effective (or why, as you might be explaining, students could stand to study a medicine that has yet to hit mainstream), osteopathic schools don't have a convincing reason to not tell you to retake the MCAT, enroll in an SMP, and apply to allopathic schools.

The truth is osteopathic schools aren't looking for people who desire to be allopathic physicians but hedge their bets by applying broadly. Osteopathic schools are looking for applicants who are going to move osteopathy into mainstream. The applicants who will do this are those who believe in osteopathic principles.

Here is the bottom line: If I am a patient and my DO says "allopathic or osteopathic, I really don't care about the difference," I'm not going to have the same confidence in him or osteopathy as if he said "I wanted to be an osteopathic physician as oppossed to an allopathic physician, and let me tell you why."

We aren't debating the intentions of applicants. We are debating how to write personal statements from an osteopathic adcom's perspective. And from this perspective, I'm not convinced that applicants should omit any mention of osteopathic medicine in their personal statement solely because they want to be a physician and don't care about the underpinning osteopathic philosophies.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Everything has to do with an applicant's intentions and beliefs. A lack of belief can be easily feigned.....you'd be surprised how many people in real life are shocked to find out I am an atheist. Given sufficient reward, there is not a single one of us who isn't willing to spin, deceive, connive or manipulate those who act as gatekeepers to our goals. Anyone who says they won't is a liar.

If I am a patient and my DO says "allopathic or osteopathic, I really don't care about the difference," I'm not going to have the same confidence in him or osteopathy as if he said "I wanted to be an osteopathic physician as oppossed to an allopathic physician, and let me tell you why."

Then you're one of a minority. Most people don't give two ****s about the letters after your name and they only want you to make them feel better.

There is no difference except for OMM which is not even an issue to >95% of DOs so it's a red herring touted simply to give something concrete and tangible to the argument for the existence of a "difference". The REAL difference is that a hundred or so years ago, a guy in Missouri lost his kids, blamed the MDs (which he was one) and decided that all could be fixed if you rub, popped or cracked someone the right way.

In other words, it's a historical basis, nothing more, nothing less. If it helps you feel better about yourself and allows you to sleep comfortably at night, so be it but do not stand here and demonstrate a holier than thou attitude when I point out the fact that the majority of applicants seem to see through the bull**** that surrounds claims such as yours and see osteopathic schools as simply a means to an end- just the same as the *gasp* allopathic schools. We dutifully feign interest for our interviews and personal statements.....hopefully that fact doesn't cost you any sleep at night.

Remember, more than a few of us would be willing to drop our pants, bend over, grab our ankles and be ****ed in the ass by a gorilla everyday if it meant we got to be a physician at the end of those four years. Hell, some of us wouldn't even expect the courtesy of a reacharound!

 

[scpod]

I spent two years helping pre-professionals write their statements in my undergrad's writing center...

I spent a few years in the writing center in undergrad as well. Most of the personal statements I helped with were for students trying to get into the nursing school, but I helped with >10 med school applicants as well. Yes, it's probably coincidence, but there was only one person I helped the whole time who didnt get in-- and he decided not to follow my advice. I told them all to skip the "why I wanna be a doctor" direct approach and write something interesting and from the heart. One guy refused. What's he doing now? He's the relief night auditor at a Holiday Inn Express in South Carolina.

You'll have plenty of arguments either way as to what you should put in, but the truth is that a well-written, thought-provoking, attention-grabbing essay will put you on the top of the stack regardless of what you put in it. There just aren't many reasons for wanting to become a doctor that haven't been already stated over and over again. Making it different will get you recognized more quickly.

People just love to read a compelling story...so why not give them something to read?

Of course, regardless of what you finally put down on the paper, whether you decide to go the conventional or nonconventional route, have other people read what you wrote-- over and over. Get second, third, forth, and fifth opinions on it-- not just from people who will tell you what you want to hear. Get some brutal critics to take a look at it as well. People often undervalue the necessity for a well-written personal stement. It can drive a mediocre application right up to the top sometimes.

 

[emaj1n]

I spent a few years in the writing center in undergrad as well. Most of the personal statements I helped with were for students trying to get into the nursing school, but I helped with >10 med school applicants as well. Yes, it's probably coincidence, but there was only one person I helped the whole time who didnt get in-- and he decided not to follow my advice. I told them all to skip the "why I wanna be a doctor" direct approach and write something interesting and from the heart. One guy refused. What's he doing now? He's the relief night auditor at a Holiday Inn Express in South Carolina.

It sounds like the quality of this applicant makes your story a coincidence, like you said. If he is hotel night auditor, he may not have had a strong application in the first place.

And a direct "I want to be a doctor" approach isn't always the best idea, you are right. At the same time, I do think you need to mention why you want to be a doctor (I'm not saying you disagree with this). After all, this is a personal statement for medical school. If you want to go into osteopathic medicine, it's worth mentioning, in my book. Others (not you) are disillusioned on this board and think osteopathic medical school adcoms have no self-respect and are perfectly willing to accept personal statements from applicants with little to no interest in the osteopathic principles (i.e., applicants only using osteopathic schools as a backup).

Of course, regardless of what you finally put down on the paper, whether you decide to go the conventional or nonconventional route, have other people read what you wrote-- over and over.

Definitely. Best advice ever. It's too bad we have to mention this over and over. I don't know if applicants are just too shy, are worried that someone else will steal their ideas, or are simply too lazy.

 

[emaj1n]

A lack of belief can be easily feigned.....you'd be surprised how many people in real life are shocked to find out I am an atheist.

Yes, I would.

Then you're one of a minority. Most people don't give two ****s about the letters after your name and they only want you to make them feel better.

I agree, which is why I didn't allude to the contray. Patients desire confidence in their physician. Many patients would be turned off if a physician said he couldn't care less about the uniqueness of their education. Oh, and if you spent time with patients of osteopathic doctors, you would be suprised to know how many say they will never go back to an "M.D."

There is no difference except for OMM which is not even an issue to >95% of DOs so it's a red herring touted simply to give something concrete and tangible to the argument for the existence of a "difference".

For your sake, I hope you don't tell osteopathic medical schools during your interview that osteopathy is the same as allopathy. They would disagree. And they are the experts.

The REAL difference is that a hundred or so years ago, a guy in Missouri lost his kids, blamed the MDs (which he was one) and decided that all could be fixed if you rub, popped or cracked someone the right way.

That "guy" was a Virginian.

In other words, it's a historical basis, nothing more, nothing less.

I question how you feel qualified to help students write personal statements to osteopathic medical schools when the only difference you see between osteopathy and allopathy is a "historical" one.

hopefully that fact doesn't cost you any sleep at night.

I slept fine knowing my post was in agreement with every DO, ostepathic adcom, and osteopathic faculty member to which I've ever spoken.

Remember, more than a few of us would be willing to drop our pants, bend over, grab our ankles and be ****ed in the ass by a gorilla everyday if it meant we got to be a physician at the end of those four years. Hell, some of us wouldn't even expect the courtesy of a reacharound!

Write a better personal statement and you might not have to go through this torture. I'm not personally convinced "more than a few" pre-meds would be willing to endure four years of what you described. If you are one of those pre-meds, you've shared a little bit too much about your personal life.

 

[Lamont]

scpod has a couple of great points...

give them a story, and a good PS takes a mediocre app to the top. this is really pretty true from what I have seen. My app is not spectacular, but it worked out pretty well for me. I would suggest keeping your MD PS and just paring it down a little to get to the limit. dont fret too much about it, work diligently, it will take some time. Good luck

 

[Animus]

For your sake, I hope you don't tell osteopathic medical schools during your interview that osteopathy is the same as allopathy. They would disagree. And they are the experts.

You keep alluding to the fact that MD and DO are so different in your response to DKM. Now I am no expert on the subject but I think almost everyone here can agree that they are not that different at all minus OMM, I have seen many credible people on here say that all in all with all the "philosophy" differences etc it really only comes down to OMM.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

That "guy" was a Virginian.

That's not what I was told at Kirksville.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

For your sake, I hope you don't tell osteopathic medical schools during your interview that osteopathy is the same as allopathy. They would disagree. And they are the experts.

How stupid do you think I am? Of course I wouldn't do something that boneheaded.

BTW, being an expert in your stated field doesn't mean you're not wrong, especially when you are perpetuating a falsehood. It's no different than that French professor who is banned from speaking at an university in Italy for claiming there was no Holocaust. Just because you have a terminal degree in a field and a position that should carry with it some semblance of authority does not mean you are not perputating what is tantamount to false truths. This is especially true if you were to not hold those opinions then you would lose your position when the fields merge (as they should). Self-serving propaganda, 100%. 👎

Granted, like I said before, I won't shoot myself in the foot by pointing this out if I get an interview at a DO program.

Patients desire confidence in their physician. Many patients would be turned off if a physician said he couldn't care less about the uniqueness of their education. Oh, and if you spent time with patients of osteopathic doctors, you would be suprised to know how many say they will never go back to an "M.D."

And if the doctor tells them, it's no different, chances are they are going to take him at face value since they have nothing else to base it on. How many of us on SDN (99% of whom are above average intelligence) knew what a DO was until we stumbled across this site or until our GPAs dropped and we had to look for other options besides MD? Not many of us probably. Now figure that if the bright and decently well educated amongst us don't have a clue about something, what are the chances that the average American adult- of questionable intellect as you will realize once you spend any time in emergency departments or urgent care clinics- will know of the differences you claim and will be concerned enough by the dismissal of them by most practicing DOs to speak up and raise a fuss. Not many, in fact, I bet more people are killed in the State of Florida annually by lightning than would react in the manner you do.

BTW, you're talking to the patient of a DO. I go to him because he's competent, bright, has good bedside manners and treats me in accordance with acceptable medical standards- none of which the osteopathic profession has an exclusive claim to.

 

[emaj1n]

You keep alluding to the fact that MD and DO are so different in your response to DKM. Now I am no expert on the subject but I think almost everyone here can agree that they are not that different at all minus OMM, I have seen many credible people on here say that all in all with all the "philosophy" differences etc it really only comes down to OMM.

Of course the philosophy differences come down to OMM. OMM embodies the differences.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

😴 Nice response..... 🙄 That's like saying the difference between masturbation and sex boils down to the use of lubricant.

 

[Animus]

😴 Nice response..... 🙄

Yeah exactly. I tried to get a good answer emaj1n, perhaps you could explain what you meant and all these supposed huge "differences". A two word answer hardly contributes to your claims...👎

 

[emaj1n]

BTW, being an expert in your stated field doesn't mean you're not wrong, especially when you are perpetuating a falsehood. It's no different than that French professor who is banned from speaking at an university in Italy for claiming there was no Holocaust. Just because you have a terminal degree in a field and a position that should carry with it some semblance of authority does not mean you are not perputating what is tantamount to false truths. This is especially true if you were to not hold those opinions then you would lose your position when the fields merge (as they should). Self-serving propaganda, 100%. 👎

1. Thank you for the ad hominem. 2. Glad you know more about osteopathy than those who run the schools.

Now figure that if the bright and decently well educated amongst us don't have a clue about something, what are the chances that the average American adult- of questionable intellect as you will realize once you spend any time in emergency departments or urgent care clinics- will know of the differences you claim and will be concerned enough by the dismissal of them by most practicing DOs to speak up and raise a fuss.

Patients who purposely visit osteopaths know the difference.

Not many, in fact, I bet more people are killed in the State of Florida annually by lightning than would react in the manner you do.

I'll be happy to give you my PayPal number.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Patients who purposely visit osteopaths know the difference.

Yeah, OK. That's hard evidence for ya. 🙄

1. Thank you for the ad hominem.

You're quite welcome? 😕

2.Glad you know more about osteopathy than those who run the schools.

I never said that. I said that just because you're in a position of authority, doesn't make it that you're always correct- especially if you stand to lose it (along with whatever credibility you might have) if you admit you're wrong.

 

[emaj1n]

We have hijacked this thread, and I am done. The OP who just wanted some help.

To the OP: Good luck with your personal statement. Feel free to PM me if you have other questions. I apologize for the immaturity and language of other posters.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

all these supposed huge "differences".

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGouhI1R0s8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[DropkickMurphy]

We have hijacked this thread, and I am done. The OP who just wanted some help.

To the OP: Good luck with your personal statement. Feel free to PM me if you have other questions. I apologize for the immaturity and language of other posters.

Hey Animus....I was right. Pay up. Apparently DOs have no special powers after all:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQbsG1yyqdQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[scpod]

That's not what I was told at Kirksville.

Born August 6, 1828 to Abram and Martha Still in Jonesboro, Virgina. Makes him a Virginian in my book, no matter what you may have "heard."

 

[DropkickMurphy]

My apologies....I wasn't aware of that. But was he not living in Missouri at the time he formulated his opinions? That would technically make both of us correct .

 

[scpod]

My apologies....I wasn't aware of that. But was he not living in Missouri at the time he formulated his opinions? That would technically make both of us correct .

He also spent time in Tennessee. Does that make him a Tennessean as well? But, you are right that he started a lot of his "opinions" in Missouri, but not necessarily in the way you may have heard. He spent a lot of time hunting in Missouri (people used to do that for food) and learned a lot about the bones, muscles, fascia and the way they worked together from skinning deer and squirrel-- long before he became an MD.

And while I'll admit that a lot of people spend too much time in the near "worship" of him, he was one of the first modern doctors to question what he was being taught. He realized that things weren't working the way they were supposed to and looked for a better method. There weren't a bunch of studies you could look to for guidance at that time, so he used a lot of anecdotol evidence that he gained from experimentation. The point to remember is that he was looking to find new and inovative forms of treatment when very few others were doing the same. In a way, then, he was one of the early supporters of EBM.

In that way, he has influenced several generations of physicians who continue to do the same thing. If he were alive today, I'll bet he would still be looking for new and better methods to solve the problems of modern medicine. Yet, I doubt he'd give up things that were working for him, simply because there was no study to confirm its efficacy. There is a lot to be learned from history if we will only take the time to look at it.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

He spent a lot of time hunting in Missouri (people used to do that for food)

Some of us (myself included) still do, although not in Missouri.

he was one of the first modern doctors to question what he was being taught.

You're right....and I respect him for that. I actually have nothing against him personally nor against the osteopathic schools. My grievances lay squarely with those who wish to make it out to be grandiosely separate from allopathic medicine, when it is not.

There is a lot to be learned from history if we will only take the time to look at it.

Precisely. However, there are more than a few people who need to be reminded that one can be proud of their history- and learn from it- but not at the expense of being beholden to it.

 

[Jeeping01]

Hey everyone, I know you're all busy with apps and mcat fun, but if anyone has a few minutes to read over my personal statement I'd really appreciate it!! It's just a rough draft at the moment but I'd love to get some feedback! If you're willing to take a look at it please leave me a message on here or contact me thru email or AIM!

Thank you!!!

[email protected]
AIM: Jeeping01

 

[VALSALVA]

Hey everyone, I know you're all busy with apps and mcat fun, but if anyone has a few minutes to read over my personal statement I'd really appreciate it!! It's just a rough draft at the moment but I'd love to get some feedback! If you're willing to take a look at it please leave me a message on here or contact me thru email or AIM!

Thank you!!!

[email protected]
AIM: Jeeping01

Check your Private Messages up in the right hand corner of the page!

 

[Lamont]

PM it to me. i will tear it apart. you should PM SCPOD and ask them too - they also have some experience with this. I am not saying they will help, but I know they are quite knowledgable.

 

[Sarikate]

I'll read it for you. PM it to me. I got lots of nice feedback from adcoms about my personal statement this past year!

 

[NontradICUdoc]

PM me. I will read it.

 

[sj786]

Hey everyone, I know you're all busy with apps and mcat fun, but if anyone has a few minutes to read over my personal statement I'd really appreciate it!! It's just a rough draft at the moment but I'd love to get some feedback! If you're willing to take a look at it please leave me a message on here or contact me thru email or AIM!

Thank you!!!

[email protected]
AIM: Jeeping01

PM it to me.

 

[prionsRbad]

I'm applying MD and DO and was wondering if I should change my personal statement for AMCAS vs. AACOMAS?

Should I address "Why DO?" in my PS? Most schools ask that question during secondaries, right?

Any one else keep their PS the same for MD and DO?

Thanks 😀

 

[MJB]

I'm applying MD and DO and was wondering if I should change my personal statement for AMCAS vs. AACOMAS?

Should I address "Why DO?" in my PS? Most schools ask that question during secondaries, right?

Any one else keep their PS the same for MD and DO?

Thanks 😀

Same thing, word for word.

 

[Sundarban1]

Same thing, word for word.

The research i've done (ie using the search function😉) suggests that it is kosher to use the same statement for the primary applications for both and focus on "why DO" in the secondaries.

 

[HarveyCushing]

I didn't talk about why DO until the secondary essays. Your personal statement really isn't the place for it imo.

 

[prionsRbad]

The research i've done (ie using the search function😉) suggests that it is kosher to use the same statement for the primary applications for both and focus on "why DO" in the secondaries.

I used the search function, twice 😉

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Krazykritter]

My personal statement was also word for word the same.

I have read many, many PS in the course of interviewing a ton of applicants & I can say that it is fairly easy to spot those who put something about osteopathic medicine in just b/c they think they should. I would much rather see a sincere & well written PS than anything that mentions osteopathic medicine just for the sake of mentioning it.

 

[spicedmanna]

Any one else keep their PS the same for MD and DO?

My essay was approximately the same. I made minor changes in the interest of brevity, since you are limited to fewer characters in the AACOMAS. I think the brevity enhanced my essay; I got to the point more efficiently and across more effectively. I didn't explicity mention osteopathic medicine, or my interest in it, but when you finished reading it, you are left with a delicious aftertaste that is reminiscent of osteopathy, and you understand not only my motivation for pursuing medicine, but why osteopathic medicine is a good fit for me. I also made sure to demonstrate through example some of the qualities that I wanted the adcoms to see. My essay had a story, or vignette, weaved into it.

 

[prionsRbad]

My essay was approximately the same. I made minor changes in the interest of brevity, since you are limited to fewer characters in the AACOMAS. I think the brevity enhanced my essay; I got to the point more efficiently and across more effectively. I didn't explicity mention osteopathic medicine, or my interest in it, but when you finished reading it, you are left with a delicious aftertaste that is reminiscent of osteopathy, and you understand not only my motivation for pursuing medicine, but why osteopathic medicine is a good fit for me. I also made sure to demonstrate through example some of the qualities that I wanted the adcoms to see. My essay had a story, or vignette, weaved into it.

Beautiful, spicedmanna. I'm sure your PS was out of this world! You are a lovely writer. Thanks for the advice 🙂

 

[nlax30]

I used the search function, twice 😉

Thanks for the advice.

Did you find this thread? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=395603


I did something similar to what spicedmanna was saying. Had to edit it down a little for size since it was initially written for AMCAS. And I did some ever-so-slight editing so that even without overtly stating it, I hinted at elements of the osteopathic philosophy.

Or....you could go this route..... http://pandabearmd.com/blog/2006/05/26/my-personal-statement/

 

[prionsRbad]

Did you find this thread? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=395603


I did something similar to what spicedmanna was saying. Had to edit it down a little for size since it was initially written for AMCAS. And I did some ever-so-slight editing so that even without overtly stating it, I hinted at elements of the osteopathic philosophy.

Or....you could go this route..... http://pandabearmd.com/blog/2006/05/26/my-personal-statement/

Nope, I didn't find that one . . . . wish I had though!

Thanks

 

[scpod]

I used the search function, twice 😉

Thanks for the advice.

You don't really even need to search function. Threads like this occur about once a week (if not more frequently) a this time of the year. Last week's was this one:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=402398

If you go back another week, I'm sure there will be even more. Just keep in mind that there is a lot of good advice, but none of it applies to absolutely everybody. I read a PS last week that just blew me away because it was very autobiographical. I normally suggest you don't do it that way, but this story was really compelling-- 99,999 out of 100,000 are not.

Take all the advice and use your critical thinking skills to glean the most important things from each.

 

[MaximusD]

I used the same personal statement... but the DO one was shortened and my main points were emphasized as well as my shadowing in an osteopathic hospital... i am fairly certain that this made my AACOMAS essay better than my AMCAS one... blah.

 

[Taty]

I used the same...

 

[DiverDoc]

Is the ~4300 characters WITH or without spaces? Because either I need to do some major slicing of my essay or just some slight editing. It makes a HUGE difference.

Thanks

 

[nlax30]

Is the ~4300 characters WITH or without spaces? Because either I need to do some major slicing of my essay or just some slight editing. It makes a HUGE difference.

Thanks

With spaces....

Here's the quote from the app page:

(The Personal Statement must be between 100 and 4500 characters in length, including spaces.)

If you use Microsoft Word under the Tools menu you can do a word count and it'll show # of words, and # characters with and without spaces.

 

[dr.kicia]

yeah it sucks...i still need to cut 168 characters from mine 🙁

 

[Orthodoc40]

You have fewer characters allowed by AACOMAS so if you used every last one in your AMCAS like I did, it will have to be different - at least shorter!

I shortened my AMCAS PS, and included 2 sentences or so that were completely relevant to my story but had been left out in AMCAS, that referred briefly to my introduction to osteopathic medicine. That way, in the secondaries, I could really give the full story.

Keep in mind nearly every secondary will ask you "Why osteopathic medicine?" in some form or another, so it will be easier to write those secondaries if you haven't already explained it all in the PS.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Makes you wonder if one could get away with a PS with 100 characters. Kinda wish I'd tried it. Maybe for fellowship....

jd

 

[DrBowtie]

Makes you wonder if one could get away with a PS with 100 characters. Kinda wish I'd tried it. Maybe for fellowship....

jd

"I won a Nobel Prize."
"I cured ___."

Seems like that would be enough.

 

[dr.kicia]

"I won a Nobel Prize."
"I cured ___."

Seems like that would be enough.

that is less then 100 characters

 

[Depakote]

that is less then 100 characters

then you just repeat "kill Flanders" over and over...

owww, it's so hard to get to 500 words.