2007-2008-What should I do thread? (where to accept, apply, and chances!) Part 2

[Btemp687]

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I switched back to computer science just to get my bachelors. It made more sense to finish up 1 more yr instead of having credits floating around. The PA program was very demanding and I couldnt handle it and my work schedule. (Less time to study)

I was going to be a PA to ultimately become a physician but after speaking to tons of pa's they all have advised me to go straight to medicine. I definately want to be a physician. I should have taken a different route if I knew of them at the time. The past is behind me and Im just tryna shoot for the future.

Its not like ive been a terrible student throught college and hs. I graduated with honors from hs.... freshman yr of college was a 3.3 soph was 3.2 junior (pa program is where it went down) and I finished my last semester with a 3.23

 

[iceman69]

no. I am in a non-DO school state.

 

[gclax30]

I have not shadowed a DO. Why does this matter? DO and MDs do the same stuff.

1.) Most schools highly "recommend" or flat out require a letter from a D.O. just to apply so you're probably screwed there.

2.) I wouldn't have the "DO and MDs do the same stuff" attitude during your application process, especially IF you managed to land an interview. Just save your money and reapply MD next year.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Some schools require a DO letter. Others strongly suggest it. I was told this is for several reasons...

1. They don't want people applying to DO school without knowing what a DO is. That is, they don't want a bunch of people who think they're getting into alternative medicine, and plan on prescribing roots and herbs to their patients when they get done.

2. Clinical experience is important. They want you to know what you're getting yourself into. That is why some schools will take an MD letter too, but not all of them.

 

[rgerwin]

getting in sub-3.0 is hard, but not impossible. I did it. From what I can tell it's really that F that's the biggest hurdle. Otherwise, your grades aren't that bad.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I have like a million F's

 

[MJB]

You need to start getting all A's...and possibly replacing some low grades..then do reasonably well on the MCAT...

Also, it helps if you have an interesting story, and most non-trads do.


I didn't have great grades, but then did about 20 hours of 4.0 work in pre-reqs and did "ok" on the MCAT...and I'm now officially an MS 1.5 (passed everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[spicedmanna]

You need to start getting all A's...and possibly replacing some low grades..then do reasonably well on the MCAT...

Also, it helps if you have an interesting story, and most non-trads do.


I didn't have great grades, but then did about 20 hours of 4.0 work in pre-reqs and did "ok" on the MCAT...and I'm now officially an MS 1.5 (passed everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Sounds about right to me. (BTW, congratulations on passing the semester 🙂 ) 👍

 

[gasapple]

Im just glad this independent thread has been appropriately classified and subsequently moved.

Stick with the PA, pal. Just kidding. I have a few PA acquaintances and there are perks to becoming a PA (low tuition, no/few loans, and quicker salary) but I have noticed that some have huge chips on their shoulders. I guess the PA is good for some but becoming a PA never once crossed my mind over the years, but that't just me. Some might call that true conviction. It's been one helluva a fight to get acceptances so be prepared. Most of us non-trads are proof that it can be done. Good luck.

 

[shan564]

What are my chances? Also, do you have any suggestions for which schools are more likely to accept a student with my specific background? I usually do well on interviews.


Education:
--Graduated from Univ of Missouri in May 2007 (BS in Medicinal Chemistry with minors in Medical Physics, Biology, and Radioenvironmental Sciences)
--GPA: 2.88 (ouch!), science GPA is about the same
--MCAT: 34Q (11PS, 12BS, 11V)
--GRE 1440 (800Q, 640V)

Experience:
--Assistant office manager for West County Physicians, a psychiatric practice in the St. Louis area, for the summer of 2004

--Summer research internship (volunteer) at a Harvard Med school virology lab, summer 2005

--Part-time research (volunteer) at an MU Med School virology lab, fall semester 2005

--Full-time researcher (title of Research Specialist) at a pharmacotherapy lab at MU Med School since June 2006. My responsibilities at this lab include clinical research with a great deal of patient interaction. I have developed novel molecular diagnostic techniques and have been involved in a drug development effort. No papers published yet, but 3-4 will be submitted soon... also, there are a couple of posters in there too.

--Part time technician for Heartland Lions Eye Bank (December 2006 – September 2007); I was responsible for extraction of ocular tissue (and relevant charting/paperwork, body examination, etc.) from recently-deceased organ donors.

--Also a great deal of interpersonal and computer-related experience (worked as a computer salesman at Circuit City for 3 years with a final title of Senior Product Specialist; also volunteered as Webmaster for various organizations over the years)

Rec letters:
--Ruth Ruprecht, MD, PhD (Harvard)
--Jeff Phillips, PharmD (current supervisor)
--Saad Khan, MD (supervisor at West County Physicians)
--Maybe a letter from a random past professor?

 

[Jpc984]

What are my chances? Also, do you have any suggestions for which schools are more likely to accept a student with my specific background? I usually do well on interviews.


Education:
--Graduated from Univ of Missouri in May 2007 (BS in Medicinal Chemistry with minors in Medical Physics, Biology, and Radioenvironmental Sciences)
--GPA: 2.88 (ouch!), science GPA is about the same
--MCAT: 34Q (11PS, 12BS, 11V)
--GRE 1440 (800Q, 640V)

Experience:
--Assistant office manager for West County Physicians, a psychiatric practice in the St. Louis area, for the summer of 2004

--Summer research internship (volunteer) at a Harvard Med school virology lab, summer 2005

--Part-time research (volunteer) at an MU Med School virology lab, fall semester 2005

--Full-time researcher (title of Research Specialist) at a pharmacotherapy lab at MU Med School since June 2006. My responsibilities at this lab include clinical research with a great deal of patient interaction. I have developed novel molecular diagnostic techniques and have been involved in a drug development effort. No papers published yet, but 3-4 will be submitted soon... also, there are a couple of posters in there too.

--Part time technician for Heartland Lions Eye Bank (December 2006 – September 2007); I was responsible for extraction of ocular tissue (and relevant charting/paperwork, body examination, etc.) from recently-deceased organ donors.

--Also a great deal of interpersonal and computer-related experience (worked as a computer salesman at Circuit City for 3 years with a final title of Senior Product Specialist; also volunteered as Webmaster for various organizations over the years)

Rec letters:
--Ruth Ruprecht, MD, PhD (Harvard)
--Jeff Phillips, PharmD (current supervisor)
--Saad Khan, MD (supervisor at West County Physicians)
--Maybe a letter from a random past professor?

Your gpas will put you at a disadvantages. Have you shadowed any DOs? You need more rec letters. Atleast 2 hard science professors, and one non science professor. Do you have any ongoing clinical experience since 2004?

 

[shan564]

Your gpas will put you at a disadvantages. Have you shadowed any DOs? You need more rec letters. Atleast 2 hard science professors, and one non science professor. Do you have any ongoing clinical experience since 2004?

I haven't shadowed DO's, I just worked with all of those MD's. Personally, I always thought that "shadowing" wasn't as effective of a learning tool as actually working with them.
The experience I've had since 2004 is the eye bank (where I did real surgical work on dead people, in addition to a lot of chart-type paperwork) and the research lab (where I did a lot of work in the OR and various clinical studies). I can get another rec letter from a professor or two, but I thought it'd be helpful to get good letters from my supervisors... I thought DO schools put more emphasis on that kind of stuff?

 

[Jpc984]

I haven't shadowed DO's, I just worked with all of those MD's. Personally, I always thought that "shadowing" wasn't as effective of a learning tool as actually working with them.
The experience I've had since 2004 is the eye bank (where I did real surgical work on dead people, in addition to a lot of chart-type paperwork) and the research lab (where I did a lot of work in the OR and various clinical studies). I can get another rec letter from a professor or two, but I thought it'd be helpful to get good letters from my supervisors... I thought DO schools put more emphasis on that kind of stuff?

They do, but most have minimum prereqs of 2 science and 1 non science (if no comittee letter) in addition to a doctor letter. Some schools will out right require a DO letter. Osteopathic schools want to know that you are interested in DO school, and not just applying due to sub MD stats. They also like continuous clinical exposure. Shadowing a DO kills two birds with one stone. It shows you know about osteopathic medicine and it gives you clinical exposure.

 

[shan564]

They do, but most have minimum prereqs of 2 science and 1 non science (if no comittee letter) in addition to a doctor letter. Some schools will out right require a DO letter. Osteopathic schools want to know that you are interested in DO school, and not just applying due to sub MD stats. They also like continuous clinical exposure. Shadowing a DO kills two birds with one stone. It shows you know about osteopathic medicine and it gives you clinical exposure.

Hmm OK. Well anyway, I think I can convince them that I'm genuinely interested in DO school if I can get an interview... I particularly think it'd be interesting to pursue research involving manipulative therapy. The question is if I can get an interview... and if I can, what my odds are at this stage in the application process.

 

[Jpc984]

Hmm OK. Well anyway, I think I can convince them that I'm genuinely interested in DO school if I can get an interview... I particularly think it'd be interesting to pursue research involving manipulative therapy. The question is if I can get an interview... and if I can, what my odds are at this stage in the application process.

significantly better depending on the school. Some schools do their major filtering before the interview process. At the interview, they just want to know you better and assess your interpersonal skills, etc.

 

[shan564]

significantly better depending on the school. Some schools do their major filtering before the interview process. At the interview, they just want to know you better and assess your interpersonal skills, etc.

Any idea which couple of schools would be the most likely to let me in? Or at least grant me a serious interview?

 

[preDO rugger]

Hey!!! Okay so I am new to this forum. I am a junior majoring in biopsychology. I recently helped form the preSOMA branch at my school and have since become set on going to DO school despite lackluster academic performance (2.917 cum GPA, about 3.0 sci GPA) I have not yet taken my MCAT and plan on taking a year off before med school.

I have some good extracurriculars including club rugby, preSOMA (treasurer), a latino tutoring program, hospital volunteer in nursing unit/ER and plans to do EMT training this summer. As a part of my major I have to do research so I am looking into that (hopefullly drug addiction research). I also keep a part-time job at a restaurant. I know I need to do some DO shadowing.

Basically any advice would be great on what I should do about my GPA...like should I find some "easier" upper-level science classes (if that's possible) to boost my science GPA.

I know that I want to become a family physician and am willing to take a nontraditional route if necessary like getting an MPH or post-bac. I'm open to other ideas.

Thanks.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Take a bunch of upper-level biology. It gets easier as it goes on, because there is a lot of overlap. That would probably be the most "impressive" way to boost your GPA.

 

[RockfordWF]

Hey!!! Okay so I am new to this forum. I am a junior majoring in biopsychology. I recently helped form the preSOMA branch at my school and have since become set on going to DO school despite lackluster academic performance (2.917 cum GPA, about 3.0 sci GPA) I have not yet taken my MCAT and plan on taking a year off before med school.

I have some good extracurriculars including club rugby, preSOMA (treasurer), a latino tutoring program, hospital volunteer in nursing unit/ER and plans to do EMT training this summer. As a part of my major I have to do research so I am looking into that (hopefullly drug addiction research). I also keep a part-time job at a restaurant. I know I need to do some DO shadowing.

Basically any advice would be great on what I should do about my GPA...like should I find some "easier" upper-level science classes (if that's possible) to boost my science GPA.

I know that I want to become a family physician and am willing to take a nontraditional route if necessary like getting an MPH or post-bac. I'm open to other ideas.

Thanks.

Your GPA is too low. Retake all grades below C+ or apply to Carribean.

 

[preDO rugger]

So that cumulative GPA isn't right b/c it needs to be re-calc. UMich doesn't average the two grades if you pass the first time or drop the first one out of the GPA like AACOMAS does. I think re-taking my science classes I got a C in is a good idea (animal phys, physics1) as well. I also still need to take several labs that will also help my science GPA out. Does math/stats count in the science GPA? Thanks for all the advice...any more information about post-bac would be helpful from anyone that did one too.

I really wish I would have picked a different undergrad I guess...my GPA might have been higher elsewhere. Do DO schools take into account where you did your undergrad?

 

[RockfordWF]

Probably not a great shot this late in the game. But, most DO schools keep an open mind to folks such as yourself who didnt get into any MD schools.

What a useful reply. 👎thumbdown👎

 

[RockfordWF]

I have a question for you all. If I send out a primary application to a couple of schools this late in the process, do you think I have a shot at a good DO schooL? Here are my stats. MCAT:29, GPA:3.83, Science GPA:3.83

You could pretty much get into any school you want to at this time period.

 

[RockfordWF]

I have not shadowed a DO. Why does this matter? DO and MDs do the same stuff.

You might learn the difference before you interview. Also, many schools require a letter from a DO.

 

[MJB]

What a useful reply. 👎thumbdown👎

I tend to agree, but in this case, JPH is on the money.

 

[RockfordWF]

I tend to agree, but in this case, JPH is on the money.

I'm not sure how. I know people who applied in February and were easily admitted with MUCH lower stats....

 

[MJB]

I'm not sure how. I know people who applied in February and were easily admitted with MUCH lower stats....

I was commenting more on the reason for applying late rather than the chances.

I'd say the chances are good, but not having shadowed a DO is not gonna help...though some of the more numbers hungry schools will probably over look that.

 

[Dr JPH]

I tend to agree, but in this case, JPH is on the money.

Yes I am. 👍

 

[EuroPhysician]

I am thinking about applying to DO school and some foreign programs, my GPA is 3.1 overall, 3.3 Science, and I have a 30P MCAT. Would I be considered a competitive applicant to a DO program? Or am I just going to wind up in the Caribbean or some other foreign school? Should I retake the MCAT? Or is 30 good enough, because I looked at admissions stats for most DO schools and most average accepted students had MCATs in the mid 20's.

 

[gasapple]

You might get more response if you use the designated "what are my chances" thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=461082

👍

 

[Jpc984]

I am thinking about applying to DO school and some foreign programs, my GPA is 3.1 overall, 3.3 Science, and I have a 30P MCAT. Would I be considered a competitive applicant to a DO program? Or am I just going to wind up in the Caribbean or some other foreign school? Should I retake the MCAT? Or is 30 good enough, because I looked at admissions stats for most DO schools and most average accepted students had MCATs in the mid 20's.

You will be competitive but it is getting later and later in the cycle.

 

[nascardoc]

I am thinking about applying to DO school and some foreign programs, my GPA is 3.1 overall, 3.3 Science, and I have a 30P MCAT. Would I be considered a competitive applicant to a DO program? Or am I just going to wind up in the Caribbean or some other foreign school? Should I retake the MCAT? Or is 30 good enough, because I looked at admissions stats for most DO schools and most average accepted students had MCATs in the mid 20's.

I think you would be fairly competitive, but like it was said before, it is getting late. If this is something you want to do, you need to act NOW. Good luck.

 

[ThisIsYourLife]

my stats are lower.. so you will probably be fine. but it is late.. but always possible.

 

[Pheobe]

You need to retake all D's to have a good chance at getting into medical school

I agree. Although taking mol bio will make mol bio in med school a bit easier.

 

[RockfordWF]

I agree. Although taking mol bio will make mol bio in med school a bit easier.

I don't know of any medical school that has molecular biology as a course.

 

[meats]

Hey guys...just needed some advice...is it too late to apply still?? or are classes mostly full by now?
Thanks!

 

[dizzle69]

Hey guys...just needed some advice...is it too late to apply still?? or are classes mostly full by now?
Thanks!

Had you even filled out the primary application? Even for DO schools, I would hope that by now if you have not applied and submitted your primary then it would be too late. However, try it out ... I think their deadlines are much more lenient than they are for MD schools. If I were you, I would apply to new/lesser competitive DO schools, as the older ones are more likely to be as competitive as the MD schools in regards to applications received.

I'd just wait out a year if I were you. If your stats are good, then you can have your pickings between MD and older DO programs.

 

[Dr JPH]

DO school as a backup to Podiatry school? First time I have heard that. I know we're second rate doctors and all, but second to the Pod Squad? Wow.

 

[LauraDO]

DO school as a backup to Podiatry school? First time I have heard that. I know we're second rate doctors and all, but second to the Pod Squad? Wow.

I'm not sure why but this thread has totally cracked me up

 

[mosel]

well, all i know is that i've got an application in at sonic to be a roller skate waiter, but if that falls through, i suppose i'll have to fall back on my do school acceptance...

 

[dizzle69]

DO school as a backup to Podiatry school? First time I have heard that. I know we're second rate doctors and all, but second to the Pod Squad? Wow.

Good point. So early in the morning that I didn't notice his status. Interesting if Pod school is more competitive than DO school ...

 

[mother]

After considering the options and looking at the positives in the DO curriculum, I have completely changed my initial plan to attend an allopathic school. Like the original poster, I question if an average applicant for allopathic (3.5 G.P.A. undergrad, 3.99 postbacc. and 31Q MCAT) would be competitive at the better DO schools. And if deadlines are listed as Feb to April 2008 for 2012 class, is there any reasonable chance to be accepted at these more established schools with applications just being filed over the past week? I worry about the cost of applying if schools will have classes filled by the stated deadline for applications to be completed. I would rather not wait another year to apply but if so required, I will. So, to the original poster, thanks for asking the question, and I hope your responders will address my question as well.😕

 

[Jpc984]

The curriculum between DO schools and MD schools are essentially the same with the exception of OMM. Your numbers are good for DO schools, but what are your ec's and clinical exposure like? Have you shadowed a DO yet? I think those deadlines are for the secondaries... if you have not sent in your primary application you will be cutting it short. Your numbers are good though...

 

[Cabbage]

ecology is so lame, i hated that class. id suggest retaking that cause a D isn't something that looks great on an application. good luck with permafrost and beavers. haha

 

[dizzle69]

The curriculum between DO schools and MD schools are essentially the same with the exception of OMM. Your numbers are good for DO schools, but what are your ec's and clinical exposure like? Have you shadowed a DO yet? I think those deadlines are for the secondaries... if you have not sent in your primary application you will be cutting it short. Your numbers are good though...

How exactly is the curriculum the same? You add OMM, you lose something else, right? Something has to give. Since you guys emphasize MSK, I'm sure it is not anatomy. So, the basic sciences I presume?

 

[Jpc984]

My understanding is DOs have more credits. I am sure JPH can jump in on this.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

All the basic sciences are required by law for accreditation. OMM has to be just something extra.

 

[spicedmanna]

It's still possible, but it's getting late, especially if you haven't even submitted your primary application yet. You may still have a chance if you have an excellent application. However, your lateness is sure to impact your choices, etc. You need to decide what the proper course of action for you is, because we don't really have all the information and you know your situation the best. Do what makes sense for you. However, I have preached in the past that you should apply when you are at your strongest, to ensure the most optimal chances of acceptance and greatest options; waiting until now to apply certainly isn't at your strongest, IMHO. Again, do what makes sense for you, but you are probably on thin ice applying this late, depending on which schools you plan on applying to. Nevertheless, it also isn't over until you hit the deadlines. So...

 

[Dr JPH]

How exactly is the curriculum the same? You add OMM, you lose something else, right? Something has to give. Since you guys emphasize MSK, I'm sure it is not anatomy. So, the basic sciences I presume?

OMM is additional to the DO curriculum, not a substitution.

 

[Dr. Josh]

DO GPA 3.9 science and ~3.65 other from a state school
Haven't taken the MCAT yet (so tell me what I need to get)
2 yrs volunteer work in hospital during school breaks
shadowed several DOs, and volunteered as a research assistant with one
work in a research lab as a research assistant
other standard ECs
working on writing children's book on cancer treatment
interested in applying to anything I can get into and can afford; please give me some suggestions!

 

[Lokhtar]

For DO schools, 26-27+ should make you competitive anywhere. Above a 23-24 or so should definitely get you in SOMEWHERE. Get a letter from a DO.