~2008-2009~"What Are My Chances/Where Should I Apply/What Should I Do" Thread

[benlinus]

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I am a student from a Top 25 public university and my science GPA is 3.92 and overall GPA is 3.85. My MCAT score is a 23N. Do I have a chance to get into a D.O. school? I have volunteer experience and great honors and awards. I also plan on shadowing an osteopathic physician for a week.

 

[whateva07]

I am a student from a Top 25 public university and my science GPA is 3.92 and overall GPA is 3.85. My MCAT score is a 23N. Do I have a chance to get into a D.O. school? I have volunteer experience and great honors and awards. I also plan on shadowing an osteopathic physician for a week.

I think that you can definitely get into a DO school from what it looks like. I think that MCAT qualifies and your gpa is superb so as far as I can tell, I would think you have a great chance.

 

[facetguy]

I am a student from a Top 25 public university and my science GPA is 3.92 and overall GPA is 3.85. My MCAT score is a 23N. Do I have a chance to get into a D.O. school? I have volunteer experience and great honors and awards. I also plan on shadowing an osteopathic physician for a week.

How old are you? Unless your clock is really ticking, you may wish to take another year, study for and re-take the MCAT, and hopefully greatly expand your possibilities. Everyone is eager to get going ASAP, but a year is not that long in the grand scheme of things. You can also use that year to further enhance your application (shadowing, volunteering, grad classes, etc.).

 

[engineeredout]

You have a 100% chance of not getting in this year if you don't apply.

 

[AMEHigh]

I basically have the same stats as you...high gpa and 23 mcat score. I'm applying this year! I've been out of school for a couple of years and decided I might as well go for it. The only thing I have to lose is some money, which isn't the end of the world. If I don't get in or get any invites I'm pretty sure it's my MCAT score that will be holding me back; therefore I will study for several months and retake and apply again next year. Good luck!

 

[RySerr21]

I am a student from a Top 25 public university and my science GPA is 3.92 and overall GPA is 3.85. My MCAT score is a 23N. Do I have a chance to get into a D.O. school? I have volunteer experience and great honors and awards. I also plan on shadowing an osteopathic physician for a week.

GPA is obviously stellar, the MCAT is definitely on the low side. Its too late to apply "early" so I'd just say apply ASAP. Maybe consider retaking MCAT? You'll probably get an acceptance somewhere, but the 23 will definitely close doors that would otehrwise be open if you had say a 27.

Be sure to have solid reasons for applying DO. Hint: "I got a 23 and figured it would be good enough for DO schools b/c I have such a high GPA and come from school X" isn't going to go over well.

 

[jwied73]

I think you're in an OK position right now, and should be great if you can bring up the PS a couple of points. How are you scoring now on it?

According to PR practice tests, I'm getting 4's on PS every time. I just finished up AAMC test 3 and got an 8, so I'll go with that...

 

[rddoms]

I have plenty of friends that got interview invites with MCAT's below 25. Remember, 25 is the average, so there are definitely scores on either side of that. Give it a shot, it won't hurt!

 

[Chocolate Bear]

According to PR practice tests, I'm getting 4's on PS every time. I just finished up AAMC test 3 and got an 8, so I'll go with that...

Can you get your hands on a more recent test in the next day or two???

 

[Ebola Virus]

According to PR practice tests, I'm getting 4's on PS every time. I just finished up AAMC test 3 and got an 8, so I'll go with that...

Definitely buy other aamc tests to get a more accurate score, perhaps 9 or 10. AAMC test series from 3 - 6 are pretty inflated and are not the type of format that's likely to be on the real test. I'll definitely buy the aamc 9 or 10, not only because it's more recent, but because the length of the test and questions are more similar to the format of the mcat that I took in May 2008.
Anyway, g'luck !!!

 

[reaton]

Go for it!!!!

 

[benlinus]

How old are you? Unless your clock is really ticking, you may wish to take another year, study for and re-take the MCAT, and hopefully greatly expand your possibilities. Everyone is eager to get going ASAP, but a year is not that long in the grand scheme of things. You can also use that year to further enhance your application (shadowing, volunteering, grad classes, etc.).

I'm 21 years old.

 

[facetguy]

I'm 21 years old.

Myself, I would wait a year. Why not put your best foot forward?

 

[jwied73]

Definitely buy other aamc tests to get a more accurate score, perhaps 9 or 10. AAMC test series from 3 - 6 are pretty inflated and are not the type of format that's likely to be on the real test. I'll definitely buy the aamc 9 or 10, not only because it's more recent, but because the length of the test and questions are more similar to the format of the mcat that I took in May 2008.
Anyway, g'luck !!!

ehh, at this point, I don't think it really matters. I've studied my butt off this summer on PS and organic chem, and I saw results on my last practice test. It gave me confidence and ultimately that's what I need heading into this test on Saturday. Thanks though!

 

[Lokhtar]

According to PR practice tests, I'm getting 4's on PS every time. I just finished up AAMC test 3 and got an 8, so I'll go with that...

There is no way in hell you should be taking the MCAT with those practice scores. None. A score in that range shows very significant gaps in knowledge, and it makes no sense to take the test like that. If you get a PS score in the range of 3-5, that's going to keep haunting you.

Seriously, you have time. Don't do this to yourself.

 

[jwied73]

hmmm. not worth it.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

hah... people like you crack me up. I get 8's on both Kaplan and AAMC practice tests, then 4 in PR, and the sky is falling? Truth is, I studied my butt of this summer and saw results in my practice tests by improving my PS score.

So, uhh which medical school are you going to?

Whoa there. No one is insulting you, so try not to jump to the defensive. You're playing a dangerous game, walking into the test with some recent, bad practice test results. If you don't want the advice, don't take it, but I think nearly everyone here wants to see others do what's best. This might be hard for you to see, given that you're so committed and close to retaking. Good luck!

 

[IamAriDO]

I dont think there is any need to start going back and forth over it

I would say that a general rule (echoed elsewhere on SDN) is that you can lose about 5-7 pts from your overall practice test to the real thing. Taking into account test difficulty, updated questions and anxiety and such.

I regularly got 32-34 on the practice (AAMC) tests and my first real score was a 26. I think you should take the time to make sure that you have a solid foundation. I took a year off and while it seemed at the time like I wasnt fulfilling my goals, I believe that I am a much better candidate now.

If you have the confidence go for it, take the test and apply (but do it soon...the cycle has begun). The worse thing that happens is you dont get in this year...but...you will know where the weak spots in your app are (its not all grades and scores) and again have time to improve. I am 23yrs old and applying, and my father was 40 when he started....I wish you luck in all of your endeavors.

 

[stonewall22]

I dont think there is any need to start going back and forth over it

I would say that a general rule (echoed elsewhere on SDN) is that you can lose about 5-7 pts from your overall practice test to the real thing. Taking into account test difficulty, updated questions and anxiety and such.

I regularly got 32-34 on the practice (AAMC) tests and my first real score was a 26. I think you should take the time to make sure that you have a solid foundation. I took a year off and while it seemed at the time like I wasnt fulfilling my goals, I believe that I am a much better candidate now.

If you have the confidence go for it, take the test and apply (but do it soon...the cycle has begun). The worse thing that happens is you dont get in this year...but...you will know where the weak spots in your app are (its not all grades and scores) and again have time to improve. I am 23yrs old and applying, and my father was 40 when he started....I wish you luck in all of your endeavors.

I lost 6 points...

 

[213965]

Does anyone know if any D.O. schools offer acceptances for applicants without a required LOR (such as physician/DO letter) contingent upon receiving that letter before the matriculating fall, like how some schools offer acceptances if a pre-req credit isn't completed as long as they receive proof that it was finished before the matriculating fall?

Thank you.

 

[Ebola Virus]

Does anyone know if any D.O. schools offer acceptances for applicants without a required LOR (such as physician/DO letter) contingent upon receiving that letter before the matriculating fall, like how some schools offer acceptances if a pre-req credit isn't completed as long as they receive proof that it was finished before the matriculating fall?

Thank you.

I've heard of receiving interview invites and so forth before receiving required LOR but never have heard of acceptance without needed documents as a letter. If it's require, then it's required usually to be considered complete. That is easier to obtain (should takes less time) since you can have an MD instead of a DO letter (most schools) than fulfulling a course requirement. Think of it this way, why should school bend over backward for one applicant, when there are thousands of other applicant willing to go the extra mile of obtaining a letter? (Unless you've got a 45S on your MCAT or have hundreds of hours in volunteering or missionaries...)

 

[213965]

I am a student from a Top 25 public university and my science GPA is 3.92 and overall GPA is 3.85. My MCAT score is a 23N. Do I have a chance to get into a D.O. school? I have volunteer experience and great honors and awards. I also plan on shadowing an osteopathic physician for a week.

I applied last year with lower GPA than yours and a slightly higher MCAT of 24R (not much better than yours at all) and still got 2 interview invites from MD schools.

Not that I'm an admissions expert by any means but I think you definitely stand a good chance at D.O. schools and you may have regrets if you don't just apply and go for it... even if you don't get in, you will learn a lot from the process... good luck!!!

 

[benlinus]

I applied last year with lower GPA than yours and a slightly higher MCAT of 24R (not much better than yours at all) and still got 2 interview invites from MD schools.

Not that I'm an admissions expert by any means but I think you definitely stand a good chance at D.O. schools and you may have regrets if you don't just apply and go for it... even if you don't get in, you will learn a lot from the process... good luck!!!

Thanks for the advice. I submitted my AACOMAS application the other day so I could get it in because it takes them 6 weeks to process. But I wasnt able to include my DO shadowing because I'm doing it next week. I didnt want to wait and them my application be really late. Do you think I should contact the schools I applied to and tell them that I am currently shadowing a DO and I didnt include that in my application?

 

[Krahis]

Looking for opinions on my shot at a DO school. Graduated undergrad with a pre-med/microbio dual major, minor in health care policy and administration. Spent a summer at UPenn doing some research in a molecular cardiology lab (basically assiting a Post-Doc with his research) so I've got lab experience as well.

GPA was around a 3.3 with a science GPA around 3.1 (yeah, it's low). Worked 2 full time jobs to support myself (rent/tuition/food/etc. - yeah, 80 hours of work a week sucked).

Luckily one of the jobs was EMS so when we weren't busy running calls I got some studying done. I've been an EMT for 4 years half the time paid, and half the time volunteering. Ended up spending two years as the president of the EMS club at school. I've done some shadowing (of MDs and DOs) so I've got a LOR or two from a DO.

MCAT was a 32 (wish I woulda studied more than 1.5 weeks .. took me far too long to break the slacking habits).

I've submitted my AACOMAS app around 2 weeks ago I'd say .. I wanted to get it in by June, but I got hung up on a transcript from a community college where I took courses during high school. They simply wouldn't let me send the transcript without signing something in person - bummer, I was out of the country - absurd, I know. I know the processing time is bad right now but I'm still hoping I've got a shot.

What do you guys think? Applied too late? Have a shot? I'd like to think I interview fairly well if I can get that far.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Do you think I should contact the schools I applied to and tell them that I am currently shadowing a DO and I didnt include that in my application?

Wait and talk about it in your secondaries and interviews. 👍👍

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Looking for opinions on my shot at a DO school. Graduated undergrad with a pre-med/microbio dual major, minor in health care policy and administration. Spent a summer at UPenn doing some research in a molecular cardiology lab (basically assiting a Post-Doc with his research) so I've got lab experience as well.

GPA was around a 3.3 with a science GPA around 3.1 (yeah, it's low). Worked 2 full time jobs to support myself (rent/tuition/food/etc. - yeah, 80 hours of work a week sucked).

Luckily one of the jobs was EMS so when we weren't busy running calls I got some studying done. I've been an EMT for 4 years half the time paid, and half the time volunteering. Ended up spending two years as the president of the EMS club at school. I've done some shadowing (of MDs and DOs) so I've got a LOR or two from a DO.

MCAT was a 32 (wish I woulda studied more than 1.5 weeks .. took me far too long to break the slacking habits).

I've submitted my AACOMAS app around 2 weeks ago I'd say .. I wanted to get it in by June, but I got hung up on a transcript from a community college where I took courses during high school. They simply wouldn't let me send the transcript without signing something in person - bummer, I was out of the country - absurd, I know. I know the processing time is bad right now but I'm still hoping I've got a shot.

What do you guys think? Applied too late? Have a shot? I'd like to think I interview fairly well if I can get that far.

Great MCAT and what looks like a very interesting application. I don't think you're too late for this season. Get your secondaries done now, so you can turn them in immediately after receiving them. Best of luck!

 

[213965]

OMG so after months of just sitting on my AACOMAS I finally "finalized" everything (or so I thought), went ahead and clicked that "submit" button, emptied my wallet, then found out that I'd left my coursework section completely blank!!!

Like OMG I really don't think I deserve to be a doctor after doing something so utterly stupid, what was I thinking. I sent my transcripts in so they can compare them to what, a blank empty space??

It looks like I most definitely will not get in anywhere this year. It's like forgetting to write your name on a test -- you truly deserve that 0 🙁

 

[benlinus]

Wait and talk about it in your secondaries and interviews. 👍👍

What if that keeps me from getting a secondary or interview?

 

[Spooner13]

OMG so after months of just sitting on my AACOMAS I finally "finalized" everything (or so I thought), went ahead and clicked that "submit" button, emptied my wallet, then found out that I'd left my coursework section completely blank!!!

Like OMG I really don't think I deserve to be a doctor after doing something so utterly stupid, what was I thinking. I sent my transcripts in so they can compare them to what, a blank empty space??

It looks like I most definitely will not get in anywhere this year. It's like forgetting to write your name on a test -- you truly deserve that 0 🙁

Don't give up just yet. Call AACOMAS as soon as you can, and tell them what you did. See if there is something that can be done. By the way, I've called AACOMAS several times this summer, and I never got through. You will probably have to leave them a message. Or you could just write them an email. Also, doctors do dumb things all the time, so this one messup on your part doesn't mean that you don't deserve to become a physician.

Good luck and I hope you get everything straitened out.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

What if that keeps me from getting a secondary or interview?

The only places that I know of with a proven track record of looking at more than GPA and MCAT on the primary (and most don't even do that) are NYCOM and Western. There may be others, so anyone else please add to the list, if you know of any.

Other than that, the secondaries will come automatically or based on GPA/MCAT cutoffs. Then many will ask to restate info from the primary and talk about why DO/why that school. That's when you will bring in the big guns (read: DO shadowing).

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Don't give up just yet. Call AACOMAS as soon as you can, and tell them what you did. See if there is something that can be done. By the way, I've called AACOMAS several times this summer, and I never got through. You will probably have to leave them a message. Or you could just write them an email. Also, doctors do dumb things all the time, so this one messup on your part doesn't mean that you don't deserve to become a physician.

Good luck and I hope you get everything straightened out.

Yeah, if you can't get through on the phone, use the SUPPORT link within the app to email them.

That really sucks about what happened, but it'll get fixed--seriously, don't worry!

 

[IamAriDO]

just to echo chocolate bear...

Use the "support" link and type them the message. I had a class in the wrong semester and they simply "undelivered" my applicaion and I changed it and resubmitted. They responded the next day (over this past weekend) and it was no problem.

No worries eh?

IamAriDO

 

[rhlsg]

AACOMAS will not release it to the schools until you enter the classes so you're fine. I made the dumb mistake of putting in my QTR units and not converting to SEM units 🙁 Support delivered it back to me and I made the corrections in a couple hours and my app got processed correctly. Call/email AACOMAS to get it released back to you. Don't worry, it'll be fine. You might lose a couple days.

 

[AMEHigh]

I applied last year with lower GPA than yours and a slightly higher MCAT of 24R (not much better than yours at all) and still got 2 interview invites from MD schools.

Not that I'm an admissions expert by any means but I think you definitely stand a good chance at D.O. schools and you may have regrets if you don't just apply and go for it... even if you don't get in, you will learn a lot from the process... good luck!!!

Just curious - what schools did you get an interview invite at?

 

[213965]

Just curious - what schools did you get an interview invite at?

Hi AMEHigh, feel free to PM me for that info... I had a separate MDApps for last year but scrapped it. This year only 1 interview invite so far but I guess it's still early in the season :/

I want to apply to TCOM but after looking at their admissions stats online it looks like they only take 10-15 people out of state, and it's rolling admissions, so obviously I didn't make the Nov 15th deadline... I'm wondering if I should even bother applying because then I'm competing for potentially as little as 5 spots (or less) for Feb? Plus it shows their avg MCAT as 28 and I am slightly below that, altho my GPA is a bit higher than their avg matriculating. Any thoughts on chances/what I should do?

As an aside, TCOM doesn't require any physician LOR 😀

Still working on getting that, though...

 

[DOhopeful12]

Ive been reading how an evenly blanced MCAT is key. My MCAT goes as followed: 7 P, 7 V, Q, 11 B = 25Q. How badly does this look? Is there a MCAT section more important (weighted more) than others? And if you did poorly on verbal but well in the writing section do medical school look or care?


Thanks

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Ive been reading how an evenly blanced MCAT is key. My MCAT goes as followed: 7 P, 7 V, Q, 11 B = 25Q. How badly does this look? Is there a MCAT section more important (weighted more) than others? And if you did poorly on verbal but well in the writing section do medical school look or care?


Thanks

Don't worry too much. Balance is nice, but the 7's will get you past any hard section cutoff that I know of. Bio is heavily regarded, if any, so good work. Just think "I have a 25, within a point or so of the average DO matriculant."

 

[aliDO]

Ive been reading how an evenly blanced MCAT is key. My MCAT goes as followed: 7 P, 7 V, Q, 11 B = 25Q. How badly does this look? Is there a MCAT section more important (weighted more) than others? And if you did poorly on verbal but well in the writing section do medical school look or care?


Thanks

Well, it's better than 5,5,5 in my opinion. Word on the street is that biology and verbal are weighted heavier than physical science. I applied for a program in my state that has reserved seats at many schools (makes admission much easier) and then you return for your clinical years. they said they didn't care about physical science nearly as much as bio and verbal. Your bio is really good and verbal could be better, but at least a Q is a nice writing score so it proves you know how to write. I don't think they care as much about writing as verbal, but the Q couldn't hurt. good luck and with a decent gpa I think you'll be ok!

 

[Murphy Brown]

I have a pretty miserable MCAT score, but a decent GPA. I'm verified and have a few secondaries but haven't filled them out yet. Is there any hope or should I just pull my apps and apply next year?

Science GPA -- 3.92
Overall GPA -- 3.43

MCAT -- 7/6/7
Total: 20 T

 

[aliDO]

I have a pretty miserable MCAT score, but a decent GPA. I'm verified and have a few secondaries but haven't filled them out yet. Is there any hope or should I just pull my apps and apply next year?

Science GPA -- 3.92
Overall GPA -- 3.43

MCAT -- 7/6/7
Total: 20 T

If you can spend the money go ahead and apply. Let the schools know you will retake in January and study your butt off!

 

[Epo83]

I'm about to send in my D.O. school applications...I took the MCAT yesterday.

What chances do I have with:

3.0 Overall Undergrad in Biology with Minor in Chem
3.76 Overall Masters Degree in Biology

MCAT...last time I took it was 25....but for the new one I take....lets say I get anywhere from 26-32.

Countless shadowing hours, research hours, volunteering hours....basically the admissions committee told me last year not to worry about anymore of this stuff ...so we'll leave it at that.

Secondly, what schools am I giving myself the best chance to apply to?

 

[213965]

I'm about to send in my D.O. school applications...I took the MCAT yesterday.

What chances do I have with:

3.0 Overall Undergrad in Biology with Minor in Chem
3.76 Overall Masters Degree in Biology

MCAT...last time I took it was 25....but for the new one I take....lets say I get anywhere from 26-32.

Countless shadowing hours, research hours, volunteering hours....basically the admissions committee told me last year not to worry about anymore of this stuff ...so we'll leave it at that.

Secondly, what schools am I giving myself the best chance to apply to?

Why are you re-taking your MCAT? I'm no admissions expert but I think a 25 is solid if evenly distributed and you have the high post-bacc GPA work that should really help. I would apply now and let schools know you're re-taking... I regret applying so late when people are already receiving acceptances... good luck!!

Oh, nvm I saw you just re-took it yesterday. Regardless, I wouldn't wait for the scores to come back... send in those applications now!! 🙂

 

[Epo83]

I had to retake b/c I'm took the MCAT in 2003 when it was the paper mcat test hahaha...yah I'm old

I already sent out transcript requests on Friday.
I'll fill out my application on monday and pay...so hopefully I'll be able to catch up alittle bit...

So your saying there's a chance...??

 

[213965]

I had to retake b/c I'm took the MCAT in 2003 when it was the paper mcat test hahaha...yah I'm old

I already sent out transcript requests on Friday.
I'll fill out my application on monday and pay...so hopefully I'll be able to catch up alittle bit...

So your saying there's a chance...??

You never know if you don't try. Plus if you get a kick-ass 30+ MCAT score I most definitely think you have more than just "a chance" 😉

On a side-note, these application fees and secondaries are getting really expensive. I would apply broadly so expect to spend at least $1k... if I receive secondaries to the 5 schools I'm applying to that's definitely over $500 total right there. However, I would spend the extra money and just see what happens than wait another year because by then your EC's start to get dated as well. I can't tell you what schools to apply to since I'm relatively new to this application process myself but I'm sure there are other people on this forum that can be of more assistance. Good luck!!!

 

[Epo83]

Also^ as a followup to my question:

I'm trying to find 8-10 D.O. schools to apply for that follow the following criteria

-Accept Out of State
-Ease of Admission


Any suggestions?? This will be my 3rd year applying so I kinda just want to get in anywhereeee haha👍

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Also^ as a followup to my question:

I'm trying to find 8-10 D.O. schools to apply for that follow the following criteria

-Accept Out of State
-Ease of Admission


Any suggestions?? This will be my 3rd year applying so I kinda just want to get in anywhereeee haha👍

Most schools don't have much in-state preference, although several claim "regional" preference. This info can be found in the CIB and here.

Admissions stats found on schools' individual sites will be close to as accurate as are available. Current DO data is elusive.

Look through the CIB. If you hate the location of a school, right off the bat, then X it out. Love the location? Look into it. Looking for research/international opportunities/surgical robots/simulated humans/whatever? Search around or call the school.

Picking schools without a more MSAR-like source is frustrating, but I know this is how I did it.

 

[Ebola Virus]

Also^ as a followup to my question:

I'm trying to find 8-10 D.O. schools to apply for that follow the following criteria

-Accept Out of State
-Ease of Admission


Any suggestions?? This will be my 3rd year applying so I kinda just want to get in anywhereeee haha👍

Check the CIB. Most of the schools are private, so they really don't have a specific state of resident that they prefer. Off hand, I do know that OUCOM (public institution prefers OH resident), MSUCOM (prefers MI residents), OSUCOM (prefers OK resident) & LMUDCOM (prefers appalachian resident).
Ease of acceptance, I think most people are looking for that key. Anyway, it depends on your stats, experience, shadowing, LORs, personality....

 

[213965]

Most schools don't have much in-state preference, although several claim "regional" preference. This info can be found in the CIB and here.

Admissions stats found on schools' individual sites will be close to as accurate as are available. Current DO data is elusive.

Look through the CIB. If you hate the location of a school, right off the bat, then X it out. Love the location? Look into it. Looking for research/international opportunities/surgical robots/simulated humans/whatever? Search around or call the school.

Picking schools without a more MSAR-like source is frustrating, but I know this is how I did it.

Chocolate Bear, you're so helpful!!!

Epo83, what I would do is check out the CIB and the ones that don't have the data in there, check the school website, and if it's not there, then call the school and ask for their last class acceptance/matriculating stats. I don't know of any school that isn't willing to share, but someone please correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[Epo83]

One more question for the evening...directed at those of you who have done this process before...

If I have not yet submitted my aacomas application yet, and get my LOR's sent out to the school ahead of time...do you think they will keep them on file before they receive my application?

Secondly, if I submit my application first for review.....while I am waiting for it to be reviewed...if I send my LOR out to each school...will they keep them on file before the application is finalized?

Thanks guys you rock for all your help...glad I found this site.

 

[sylvanthus]

Hello all, just got my MCAT score so here are my stats. What do you think my odds are? I am applying to 16 DO schools to be safe.

Overall GPA: Approximately 3.4 (waiting on verification)
Science GPA: 3.2ish (also waiting)

Significant upward trends, but poor past performance (several F's, numerous withdrawls). For the past 5 years of undergrad (switching colleges, majors, working fulltime etc.) I have had a 3.7.

MCAT: 36M(12BS 12PS 12 VR) (grrrr writing sample)

Work/Other:

6 years fulltime experience as an ER tech.
1.5 years volunteering as an overnight supervisor in a homeless shelter.


What say you?

Justin