~2008-2009~"What Are My Chances/Where Should I Apply/What Should I Do" Thread

[Chocolate Bear]

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Thanks for the feedback, Its good to know that some people are given a second chance with a low GPA. Were you also an Engineering graduate? Are you in a DO school or MD school?

If I may speak for TT, he was not an engineer and he's at PCOM-GA (DO).

There are lots of engineers around here in very similar situations to yours. Some schools have GPA minimums that they may or may not be willing to budge on, but many schools will be accommodating, if you have sufficiently proven your motivation and ability to succeed in medicine (most career changing engineers have no problem doing this).

 

[Limvostov]

I know your situation well just check my profile... I have spent the past three years trying to fix/change my grades and get proper experience so that I would be a competitive applicant for medical school. Now I have one interview and I could not be more excited. Engineering is not for everyone and I think that most would agree that schools will look at your course load and take that into consideration along with your desire to change paths and pursue something totally different then your ever intended on.

In my opinion you have an excellent chance. Just keep working hard because getting into medical school is not easy for anyone.

 

[DrMidlife]

.

 

[DrMidlife]

BTW, you need to improve your undergrad GPA(s), which can't be done by taking grad level coursework.

And unfortunately, you'll need about 3 years of additional undergrad work, at a 4.0, to get your cumulative numbers over a 3.0, which is a minimal comfort level. Applying at a sub-3.0 is anything but comfortable.

Visit the nontrad forum if you're looking for more former engineers. I was one for 15 years.

And visit the postbac forum for more thoughts on GPA repair and different programs that support it. Such as SMPs, which (although they are grad level) are designed to improve your credentials specifically for med school. Much riskier, much faster, very expensive.

Best of luck to you.

 

[2010hopefully]

Thank you guys for the feedback. Even if I took 75 total credits in Post bac work and averaged a 3.5-3.6, after calculating my total GPA, including undergrad and Post grad, I would still be around a 2.82. Is a 2.82 even possible to get into a med school.

Yes I do have a pretty good MCAT,

My Volunteering will be strong

Leadership will be strong

Clinical will be strong

Personal statement will be strong

Recommendations will be strong

My biggest worry is getting weeded out by a computer system, that discards my GPA because I wouldn't be under the standard 3.0.

My reasoning for switching careers is because I know I would be a better and much happier Doctor than an Engineer. Although my biggest worry is putting all this time and money into something which I have know control on weather I get accepted or not.

At the same time, I'm very positive, but am concerned

 

[Limvostov]

BTW, you need to improve your undergrad GPA(s), which can't be done by taking grad level coursework.

And unfortunately, you'll need about 3 years of additional undergrad work, at a 4.0, to get your cumulative numbers over a 3.0, which is a minimal comfort level. Applying at a sub-3.0 is anything but comfortable.

Yes... I agree fully. Improving a gpa is not fun or easy. It takes a lot of energy to retake entry level courses that many engineers blow off as they have harder courses to focus on. No one expects perfect grades from an engineering student until they want to be a doctor 🙂.

AACOMAS has a replacement system for retaken courses. So your gpa will go up faster for DO school than for MD which uses AMCAS. Retake core science C and C- grades first and that will really boost the gpa quick and will show that you can do the work and are determined to improved your image.

 

[saylorsdad]

I would say to meet with admissions advisor "counselor" at medical school of your dreams. they can give you some good information as to what it will take you to be competitive at their school "probably applies to other schools as well". I think that as non-trad you cannot say x gpa will get you in or y mcat will get you in. DO schools really tend to look at your entire package.
I would not retake the mcat with 33 that's competitive. I say make sure you have the pre-req's "and scored well" and roll the dice.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Thank you guys for the feedback. Even if I took 75 total credits in Post bac work and averaged a 3.5-3.6, after calculating my total GPA, including undergrad and Post grad, I would still be around a 2.82. Is a 2.82 even possible to get into a med school.

Yes I do have a pretty good MCAT,

My Volunteering will be strong

Leadership will be strong

Clinical will be strong

Personal statement will be strong

Recommendations will be strong

My biggest worry is getting weeded out by a computer system, that discards my GPA because I wouldn't be under the standard 3.0.

My reasoning for switching careers is because I know I would be a better and much happier Doctor than an Engineer. Although my biggest worry is putting all this time and money into something which I have know control on weather I get accepted or not.

At the same time, I'm very positive, but am concerned

Some places would weed you out, but not all.

I called a bunch of schools to tell them my situation, and not to weed me out. I got some looks from places, despite not meeting their posted cutoffs.

I should also note that AACOMAS will show your post-bac GPA as its own split, so they won't just see your cumulative.

 

[2010hopefully]

I'm not in Grad school, I'm just taking post Bac classes, If I transfered into the school for a second degree in Biomedical, and completed the 60 credits to finish up the degree, then if I applied to there DO or MD program would they just look at my Second degree? Or would they still look at my previous degree from a different University even know that degree would have been in Engineering?

Thanks for the feedback,


Also, all my low grades are from Engineering Classes. All my under grad science GPA are Listed below.

Undergrad Class GPA from science classes 2001-2004

Physics 1 for Engineers-2.5 Probably should repeat
Physics 2 for Engineers-3.0 Probably okay

Chem General-3.0
Chem 1 2.0 probably will repeat
chem 2 3.0 probably OK
Chem 2 lab 3.5

Those are all the science classes I took in undergrad.

Also I did take an EPI class in 2002 and received 2.5, I'm not sure if that goes against my science GPA
ENT class in 2004 did really bad, never went to class received 1.5, also I'm not sure if that class will reflect on my science GPA, If it does than I differently have to retake

 

[2010hopefully]

Also, I have read that DO schools are big on English and Humanity classes.

Undergrad grades 2001-2004

English 1 4.0
English 2 4.0
History US 4.0
History Europe 4.0
History Western 4.0
Humanity 200 level 2.5
Humanity 300 level 1.5 not good

 

[TexasTriathlete]

DO schools are not big on english and humanities classes.

Some of them may be, but there is no rule.

 

[saylorsdad]

looks like you need bio 1 2 organic 1 2 anatomy retake chem 2 and you should be close maybe a few more upper div bio along way bt shouldnt take long

 

[2010hopefully]

When applying to a DO school, does my science GPA=all BIO, CHEM and Physic courses. Or does my science GPA also include my math courses?

From what I have read it seems like many DO schools will weigh your Science GPA and MCAT score heavier than your overall GPA. Is this correct????

 

[Fp02c]

Math will not count. However, all your engineering courses will.

 

[Dr. Syzygy]

Math will not count. However, all your engineering courses will.

I was under the impression that engineering courses are considered other science so they won't be calculated in the science GPA... Correct me if I'm wrong. 😕

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I was under the impression that engineering courses are considered other science so they won't be calculated in the science GPA... Correct me if I'm wrong. 😕

They are considered "other science," but that just means that AACOMAS will use them for your sciGPA. It also means that AMCAS will not use them for your BCPM GPA. Thus the confusion.

 

[2010hopefully]

So from my understanding,

DO schools will count all Engineering and Science course as your Science GPA, and all other courses as your overall GPA

Or will just science courses be calculated a your science GPA and then your overall GPA will be your science, math Engineering, etc....

MD schools will count science and math courses as your science GPA and then all other courses including science and math would be in your overall GPA.

Example for a DO APP
BIO 32 credits 3.5
Chem 20 Credits 3.6
Physics 8 credits 3.25

Overall for science GPA=3.5

Overall total GPA=2.7 from all credits taken at all universities attend through out undergrad and Post Bac

Does this make sense or am I missing something. If this does make sense is this good enough to get into a DO program with a 33 MCAT

 

[hopefuldoc35]

Hello all! My application is verified and it said release date would show up next to each school but I havent seen anything yet... granted it got verified yesterday (took 5 weeks!!!!!!!) but still. Does anyone know how long it takes them to send them out? I'm feeling very rushed at this point 🙁

 

[futuredrandwife]

Hello all! I am new to this site. I, too, would like to know what my chances are. I was a psych major/ biopsych minor, and obv premed. I had an overall GPA of either 3.49 or 3.5 and a science GPA of about 3.23. My MCAT was 25Q (PS 8, VR 8, BS 9). In the beginning of my senior year, I was a co-founder of my school's neuroscience club, and was elected VP the following spring semester. I was a member of APHOS (association for pre health oriented students) my senior year. I worked as a medical assisant from june 2004 - january 2007. I worked as a research assistant at north shore university hospital for the spring semester of my senior year. I shadowed 2 surgeons from july-aug 2007. Although I never shadowed a DO, my internist is a DO so I do have great knowledge of the profession. I also attended the open house at NYCOM in November of 2007. Sorry this is so long but I'm definitely interested in hearing where I stand! Thanks in advance!

Note: My AACOMAS app was verified yesterday and today I received the secondary from CCOM... I'm awaiting to hear from others.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Hello all! My application is verified and it said release date would show up next to each school but I havent seen anything yet... granted it got verified yesterday (took 5 weeks!!!!!!!) but still. Does anyone know how long it takes them to send them out? I'm feeling very rushed at this point 🙁

They snail mail apps once a week, but it might take a little longer to show a release date. Get to work on secondary essays, and the update will come before you know it! 👍

 

[Chocolate Bear]

So from my understanding,

DO schools will count all Engineering and Science course as your Science GPA, and all other courses as your overall GPA

Or will just science courses be calculated a your science GPA and then your overall GPA will be your science, math Engineering, etc....

MD schools will count science and math courses as your science GPA and then all other courses including science and math would be in your overall GPA.

Example for a DO APP
BIO 32 credits 3.5
Chem 20 Credits 3.6
Physics 8 credits 3.25

Overall for science GPA=3.5

Overall total GPA=2.7 from all credits taken at all universities attend through out undergrad and Post Bac

Does this make sense or am I missing something. If this does make sense is this good enough to get into a DO program with a 33 MCAT

AACOMAS will show sciGPA, non-sciGPA, totalGPA, and the GPAs of each group of courses of a particular type (Bio/Zoology; Biochemistry; Inorganic Chemistry; etc).

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Hello all! I am new to this site. I, too, would like to know what my chances are. I was a psych major/ biopsych minor, and obv premed. I had an overall GPA of either 3.49 or 3.5 and a science GPA of about 3.23. My MCAT was 25Q (PS 8, VR 8, BS 9). In the beginning of my senior year, I was a co-founder of my school's neuroscience club, and was elected VP the following spring semester. I was a member of APHOS (association for pre health oriented students) my senior year. I worked as a medical assisant from june 2004 - january 2007. I worked as a research assistant at north shore university hospital for the spring semester of my senior year. I shadowed 2 surgeons from july-aug 2007. Although I never shadowed a DO, my internist is a DO so I do have great knowledge of the profession. I also attended the open house at NYCOM in November of 2007. Sorry this is so long but I'm definitely interested in hearing where I stand! Thanks in advance!

Note: My AACOMAS app was verified yesterday and today I received the secondary from CCOM... I'm awaiting to hear from others.

Your sciGPA is a tad low, but everything else looks fine. Apply somewhat broadly and your chances will go up. Definitely turn in your secondaries ASAP. Good luck!

 

[2010hopefully]

chocolate bear
Thanks for your help, I found this on the AACOMAS app area

AACOMAS will calculate your GPA and credit hours according to the following rules – GPAs and credit hours will be calculated for Science, Non-Science and All course work. Science GPAs include Biology/Zoology, Biochemistry, Inorganic Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Other Science, and Physics. Non-science GPAs include Behavioral Science, English, Math, and Other Non-science.

Thats not good for me, because the Engineering classes will bring my GPA down dramatically. Repeating some of those Engineering classes will be almost impossible. The reason is it will be very hard for me to improve a 2.0 to a 3.0 when I cant remember the courses pre-reck.

I just wonder if a DO school will look more at my Post Bac work and my overall personality than my Engineering grades

 

[DPT2DO]

I've recently decided that I will pursue my dream of becoming a physician. Here is my chronological story:

4 yrs undergrad, Exercise Physiology Major, Nutrition Minor; 3.12 cum, 3.02 sci (2.5 first 2 yrs, 3.5+ last 2) Also varsity football player, D2 school
1.5 yrs teaching personal training courses at an independent proprietary school (while also training privately)
3 yrs pursuing Doctor of Physical Therapy degree; 3.38 cum, 3.6+ sci (34 wks total clinical affiliations in med/surg, inpt rehab, outpt rehab and SNF)
1.5 year practicing PT at an outpatient practice, becoming manager of the practice over the past 5 months

I have decided to pursue medicine due to my desire to treat the entire patient rather than be limited to mainly musculoskeletal and occasional neuro. I have grown frustrated due to a growing knowledge base and desire along with an apparently narrowing scope. I will pursue DO schools with the intent to matriculate in 2010. I do know one DO on a personal basis who happens to be an alum of my first choice school. My LOR's should be strong. I also know several MD's in the area due to referral relationships. I intend on taking the MCAT in May, just after I finish Organic 2. I have a history of leadership; managing, teaching and served as captain of 2 high school sports teams (if that matters at all?)

Several questions:
1) Will my PT graduate coursework count on the AACOMAS towards my sci or cum GPA, or is it considered professional like chiro, DPM, etc. (I really hope it will)
2) Should I pursue volunteer work, or is my current clinical background plenty?
3) Will my low undergrad GPA hurt me? (I will have finished Org 1 & 2 by application time, which should raise my sci GPA as high as 3.15)
4) And Finally, What are my chances?

This place is great, I look forward to your input, and I hope to be able to offer some input of my own in the future. 👍

 

[PerpetualStudent]

My AMCAS gpa is significantly lower. I love aacom's way of calculating the science gpa. As previously mentioned, I have 3.23 overall gpa and a 3.23 cum. science gpa. I only techincally need fall quarter to finish. I might even raise my science gpa to 3.34 after Fall and after re-taking genetics another quarter (easy teacher is offering it in spring). If I re-take mamm. phys I and earn an A, I will raise my science gpa to 3.397.

Should I stay an extra quarter or two so that I can retake these courses? Should I just re-take genetics and mamm. phys. I ? I'm also studying for the mcat until may. Should I go to school part-time or would this be frowned upon? What if I take one or two bio classes in the remaining two quarters and fill up to full-time with behavioral science classes?

I'm planning on taking the mcat in May after completion of a review course. I was originally planning on taking an extra few quarters to raise my gpa , but do you think that is necessary or do I have a decent shot?

As far as ECS: I did a short research project in a neuroscience lab (at a school which is currently rated #1 for neuro), have been volunteering for 4 hours at an ER for 4 hours a week from July 14th- present. I still need to work on the letters of REC as it's somewhat difficult to make relationships with the professors in such a large university. I was also hoping to work as a HCP ( health care practitioner ) for a few months at 40 hrs/week at the ER I'm currently volunteering at. This is of course, assuming they would hire me. The thing is I need to graduate before I have the 40 hours available. I've heard of other volunteers who obtained such positions in a similar manner and have also heard that many have gotten to know the Drs better working there than volunteering.

So should I take an extra two quarters at a UC school to raise my gpa both overall and science or should I wrap it up and try to get a position as a HCP working at the ER 40 hrs /week? I think I would end up with roughly 260 hours of related clinical hours. Otherwise, with simply volunteering I would only get roughly 50-60 hours at the time of applying in June 2009. I was also wondering whether I should wait to apply in June 2010 so that I could double those hours by working at the ER?

Thanks in advance for your advice. This forum has proved to very encouraging and I hope that I can help others as well in the future.

 

[g5chand]

3.71 Overall, 3.60 Science, 24O MCAT, good LORs, good ECs. These are my stats and I am applying to Midwestern University in Chicago, Ohio, and MSU-COM. Can anyone please give me an insight on what my chances of admission?

 

[futuredrandwife]

chocolate bear,

Thanks for your input!! I forgot to add that I was a member of the Psi Chi National Honor Society and Phi Eta Sigma National Honor Society, and that I was on the Dean's List each year during undergrad. I applied to 11 DO schools... Do you think I will get in somewhere? I received a secondary from CCOM yesterday and sent it out (electronically) last night. Thanks again!

 

[avervisal]

Are your secondaries already complete at those schools?

 

[g5chand]

They will be done by this week/next week latest. I JUST received my MSU-COM secondary this past week. My letter writers are currently filling out the forms.

 

[avervisal]

I am basically in the same situation as you. I think our MCATs are slightly lower than the average that entrants have posted in the recent years, which might hinder our apps a little. Timing is ok, I know that offices are getting inundated with apps right about now. So to answer your question? It's a throwup 😀

 

[forks4spoons]

Hi, everyone! I've been lurking around here for the past few weeks and have found the answers to my questions without having to re-post. However, I am having my own personal dilemma at the moment and hoping that you may help me.

GPA: c3.53 s3.51
I worked for 3 years at the local (huge) cardiology clinic doing clerical work. But in my time, I built a GREAT relationship with the patients/nurses/doctors.Hoping to get a LOR out of at least one of the MDs.

Other than that, nothing ultra special... Tri Beta, Volunteered at a nursing home and at an animal shelter. I wasn't Pre-med as an undergrad, so I wasn't in Chem-Med club or anything like that. I'm going to get my mdapps up and running pretty soon... will work on that tonight, actually.

I'm pretty new to the application game. I never thought that I was "smart enough" to get into medical school, but after a lot of conversation with family/friends/husband, I decided to go for it... in the middle of August. I have all of my applications ready, but I haven't submitted them. I receive my MCAT scores on the 7th of October and plan on submitting them after I see how well (or not so well) I did.

I am very family-oriented and staying near to my elderly parents is very important to me, so I am only applying to a couple of schools within 4-5 hours of my parents. DCOM and VCOM to be specific.

Anywho, I haven't shadowed.. yet, and I've been out of a job for 6 months when I get a phone call from a company that I applied to. If I get the job, I'll begin Monday with training and go 8-5 M-F for the next 6-7 weeks. (Ugh..) But the pay is very nice for around here. So, I don't know when I would be able to shadow, and I don't want to wait until mid-November to submit my apps.

So, correct me if I'm wrong - a DO eval/LOR is not required for the primary application. Right? Or does it depend on the school?

I don't know what I should do. DCOM requires the secondary of all applicants, and they require a LOR from a DO as part of their secondary. Whereas, VCOM requests a secondary from you if necessary.

My main questions are - should I go ahead and apply before I get my MCAT score/DO LOR? Should I forgo the job in lieu of shadowing?

Gah, what should I do?

ETA - thanks in advance!!!

 

[hopefuldoc35]

Thank you chocolatebear. you've been an amazing help as always 🙂

 

[futuredrandwife]

Are your secondaries already complete at those schools?

Hmmm.. not sure if this quote was directed toward me, since it was posted right below my post, so I will answer anyway!! My AACOMAS app was just verified on Monday so, as of now, I've only received one secondary (from CCOM) and sent it out last night, the same day I received it.

 

[khen7513]

Hi, everyone! I've been lurking around here for the past few weeks and have found the answers to my questions without having to re-post. However, I am having my own personal dilemma at the moment and hoping that you may help me.

GPA: c3.53 s3.51
I worked for 3 years at the local (huge) cardiology clinic doing clerical work. But in my time, I built a GREAT relationship with the patients/nurses/doctors.Hoping to get a LOR out of at least one of the MDs.

Other than that, nothing ultra special... Tri Beta, Volunteered at a nursing home and at an animal shelter. I wasn't Pre-med as an undergrad, so I wasn't in Chem-Med club or anything like that. I'm going to get my mdapps up and running pretty soon... will work on that tonight, actually.

I'm pretty new to the application game. I never thought that I was "smart enough" to get into medical school, but after a lot of conversation with family/friends/husband, I decided to go for it... in the middle of August. I have all of my applications ready, but I haven't submitted them. I receive my MCAT scores on the 7th of October and plan on submitting them after I see how well (or not so well) I did.

I am very family-oriented and staying near to my elderly parents is very important to me, so I am only applying to a couple of schools within 4-5 hours of my parents. DCOM and VCOM to be specific.

Anywho, I haven't shadowed.. yet, and I've been out of a job for 6 months when I get a phone call from a company that I applied to. If I get the job, I'll begin Monday with training and go 8-5 M-F for the next 6-7 weeks. (Ugh..) But the pay is very nice for around here. So, I don't know when I would be able to shadow, and I don't want to wait until mid-November to submit my apps.

So, correct me if I'm wrong - a DO eval/LOR is not required for the primary application. Right? Or does it depend on the school?

I don't know what I should do. DCOM requires the secondary of all applicants, and they require a LOR from a DO as part of their secondary. Whereas, VCOM requests a secondary from you if necessary.

My main questions are - should I go ahead and apply before I get my MCAT score/DO LOR? Should I forgo the job in lieu of shadowing?

Gah, what should I do?

ETA - thanks in advance!!!

I would go ahead and submit. I believe if you indicate on AACOMAS that you took or intend to take, the scores do get updated. Or you inform AACOMAS and they inform the schools. The point is, you can do that afterwards. Also, you can inform the schools later when you shadow if you desire, or they will figure that out with the letter they provide. My advice is to get the ball rollin ASAP. You can worry about it while its getting verified (mine took 7 weeks and 3 days). GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[Chocolate Bear]

1) Will my PT graduate coursework count on the AACOMAS towards my sci or cum GPA, or is it considered professional like chiro, DPM, etc. (I really hope it will)
2) Should I pursue volunteer work, or is my current clinical background plenty?
3) Will my low undergrad GPA hurt me? (I will have finished Org 1 & 2 by application time, which should raise my sci GPA as high as 3.15)
4) And Finally, What are my chances?

1) It doesn't appear that they will, after reading the AACOMAS guidelines, but there's a small chance I'm wrong. You got a DPT, right?

2) Your current background could be sufficient, but some apps will specifically ask about volunteering, and it would be great not to have to leave that blank. You could get involved in something for a couple of hours per week and perhaps shadow a couple of docs, if you have the chance. It could only help.

3) Yes, it will hurt, and might get you screened at a couple of places. However, with a strong trend in the latter part of schooling and solid DPT grades (that the schools won't see, but you can mention them in your PS/apps), you shouldn't count yourself out.

Is there any way to retake a few courses that are bringing you down? AACOMAS will replace the old grades with the most recent ones, so if you can retake a few low grades, you'll make improvements very quickly.

4) Hard to say. With a solid MCAT (aim for 30+ and you'll help prove yourself academically), boosting your GPA, taking some upper division Bio classes if you can, shadowing a DO, and getting a letter from him/her (or at least an MD letter), I'd say you're on your way.

 

[group_theory]

Hi, everyone! I've been lurking around here for the past few weeks and have found the answers to my questions without having to re-post. However, I am having my own personal dilemma at the moment and hoping that you may help me.

welcome to SDN

GPA: c3.53 s3.51
I worked for 3 years at the local (huge) cardiology clinic doing clerical work. But in my time, I built a GREAT relationship with the patients/nurses/doctors.Hoping to get a LOR out of at least one of the MDs.

👍

Other than that, nothing ultra special... Tri Beta, Volunteered at a nursing home and at an animal shelter. I wasn't Pre-med as an undergrad, so I wasn't in Chem-Med club or anything like that. I'm going to get my mdapps up and running pretty soon... will work on that tonight, actually.

Sounds good - don't worry about not joing pre-med clubs or saving an African village from fire ants.

I'm pretty new to the application game. I never thought that I was "smart enough" to get into medical school, but after a lot of conversation with family/friends/husband, I decided to go for it... in the middle of August. I have all of my applications ready, but I haven't submitted them. I receive my MCAT scores on the 7th of October and plan on submitting them after I see how well (or not so well) I did.

Best of luck. Although you can get your application started with AACOMAS, start on your essay, getting letters ready while waiting for your MCAT score to arrive.

I am very family-oriented and staying near to my elderly parents is very important to me, so I am only applying to a couple of schools within 4-5 hours of my parents. DCOM and VCOM to be specific.

Cool. Two relatively new schools to the osteopathic world but have heard good things so far.

Anywho, I haven't shadowed.. yet, and I've been out of a job for 6 months when I get a phone call from a company that I applied to. If I get the job, I'll begin Monday with training and go 8-5 M-F for the next 6-7 weeks. (Ugh..) But the pay is very nice for around here. So, I don't know when I would be able to shadow, and I don't want to wait until mid-November to submit my apps.

Med school application is not a series of check-list where you must do this in order to be admitted (but it does feel like it at times). While a big deal is made of "shadowing", it is not required. Shadowing is suppose to give you a sneak peak at what life as a doctor will be. You already worked in a cardiology clinic so you have some perspective of what outpatient medicine will be. It won't necessarily be any different than shadowing an internal medicine doc in an outpatient setting, or a family med doc in an outpatient setting. As long as you can demonstrate that you know what you are getting yourself into, then you don't need to shadow (or delay your application to shadow). Having said that, if you have the opportunity to shadow, I would take advantage of it.

So, correct me if I'm wrong - a DO eval/LOR is not required for the primary application. Right? Or does it depend on the school?

It is school specific. It appears that both DCOM and VCOM requires a LOR from an osteopathic physician.

I don't know what I should do. DCOM requires the secondary of all applicants, and they require a LOR from a DO as part of their secondary. Whereas, VCOM requests a secondary from you if necessary.

Both DCOM and VCOM requires an osteopathic physician LOR.
http://www.vcom.vt.edu/resource/files/VCOM_Secondary_Application_FAQs.pdf

This will usually come with their secondary application. I would take this time now to locate an osteopathic physician and see if you can secure a LOR (doesn't have to be GREAT as long as your other LORs are strong. The LOR can even be a summary of your CV and stating that you know what osteopathic medicine is if the osteopathic physician does not know you well). Now if you have time to allow the osteopathic physician to get to know you and write a stronger LOR, that's great but if your overall application is strong and you already have good strong LORs from another doctor and professors, then getting a DO LOR is just fulfillinig requirements.

My main questions are - should I go ahead and apply before I get my MCAT score/DO LOR? Should I forgo the job in lieu of shadowing?

At least get started. Start your AACOMAS ... start working on your essays. Get your college transcript sent to AACOM. Once you get your MCAT score, go ahead and hit submit (and pay $$$). However, if you figure you will have difficulty getting a DO LOR, you will have to ask yourself this - can I get a DO LOR in a reasonable amount of time this year? If yes, then apply. If not, considering waiting OR applying to schools that do not require a DO LOR.

Gah, what should I do?

ETA - thanks in advance!!!

Good luck.

 

[group_theory]

Hey everyone,


I just got my MCAT score back i got 21M (i know it's bad) My undergraduate science GPA is 2.5 and overall GPA is about the same (oddly). My graduate GPA is 3.42 and i am going to get Master degree next may. i was wondering with my stat, can i get into a DO school, Please help, thank you

No

undergrad science GPA is too low
undergraduate total GPA is too low
MCAT is too low
graduate GPA - is ok

Like other have said, AACOMAS will replace grades so if you took a course and repeated it (and got a higher grade), for GPA calculation purposes that grade will replace the previous grade (although it remains on your transcript and adcom can still see it).

You want to raise your total undergrad (and science) GPA to at least 2.7 (if you can get it above 3.0 the better). Aim for MCAT score above 26. You can raise your undergraduage GPA by taking postbac classes (whether in a formal postbac program or informal on your own) - again, retake the classes you did poorly in and you will get the biggest bang for your efforts.


In terms of PCOM, while admission officers are willing to give people second chances, the overall numbers are not in your favor. PCOM receives the most application out of all DO schools, and out-of-staters have a harder time getting invited for interviews compare to in-staters.

 

[group_theory]

chocolate bear,

Thanks for your input!! I forgot to add that I was a member of the Psi Chi National Honor Society and Phi Eta Sigma National Honor Society, and that I was on the Dean's List each year during undergrad. I applied to 11 DO schools... Do you think I will get in somewhere? I received a secondary from CCOM yesterday and sent it out (electronically) last night. Thanks again!

To repeat what Chocolate Bear said, your science GPA is a little below average but within standard deviation compare to last year's applicants (3.39 with 0.33 sd)

Otherwise, with good MCAT, good healthcare experience, demonstrated leadership qualities, and can get a DO LOR (from your internist), then you look good.

Your next question will be how to choose between the various acceptances in your hand 😀

 

[forks4spoons]

Group_theory, khen - thank you both so very much!! I feel so relieved from your responses. I've been on edge about this all for the past couple of weeks!

Sounds good - don't worry about not joing pre-med clubs or saving an African village from fire ants.

ha! 😀

 

[seva86]

Here's my "story" 🙂

To put it out there, I graduated with about a 2.5 cum GPA from a top 5 public university (which was later rounded up to 2.7 by AACOM) and have a 23N MCAT from last summer. It's useless to make excuses for my grades, but needless to say, toward the end of college, I was less than inspired to go to medical school; I didn't think I was cut out for it.

I finished in May and since then have decided to take at least a year off to, in short, figure out life. I got a job at a great hospital and being surrounded by so many residents got to me. What did I do over the last few years? I should be headed where they are.

In Late July I applied to several DO schools (PCOM, UNECOM, UMDNJ, Ohio, Touro-NY). Although I struggled with the stigma of MD >> DO, I realized that I do actually want to practice primary care or internal medicine, and that my personality and lifestyle flow with that of osteopathic philosophy.

After calling some schools, I felt dejected and decided to pull my application. But I couldn't figure out how to do it! haha. So I said, whatever and just forgot about it. I would apply again in a few years after I complete my masters and re-take my MCAT in the spring.

To make a long story LESS boring -- two days ago, out of the blue (or so it felt), I received an email from UNECOM inviting me to complete the second. Later, I got a letter from PCOM about theirs. I was SO confused; I didn't think my app was even verified. I checked AACOM and sure enough ,my app had been released about a week ago.

So now I'm going insane. I don't know what to do. I feel like secondaries go out to most people. Even so, I'm still closer than I ever thought to being able to attend medical school. I have great LORs ready to go (my academic advisor whom i've been closed to throughout college, the dean of the liberal arts college of my university whom i've also known all four years, and a MD whom i've known for about 3 years. my school doesn't have a pre-med committee).

Extracurricularly, I'm working now doing research at a major hospital in my area. I'm involved at the alumni level with my sorority and have done a lot of community service. I'm also training for an endurance event (triathlon) for a good cause (blood cancer). In short, I'm keeping myself really busy, while trying to find opportunities that connect me to medicine. I'm also interesting in pursuing a MPH either during or after medical school (I'm particularly interested in PCOM's DO/MPH dual degree and also because it's only 2 hours away from where I live now; I want to be close to family) and have sought opportunities in public health as well.

Do I have any chance at all at this point? Given that many of the secondary deadlines are in February, and I plan to have mine out within a week, I hope to be considered.

Also, does anyone know where to point me to so I can do more research on the demographics/diversity of incoming classes? I'm a black female and kinda worried about that. I haven't come across many black, or even latino, DO's (I live in a DO friendly state).

Sorry for the novel! 🙂

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Seva, I know there are non-white DOs, but since DOs are such a relatively small population, the minority population therein would be even harder to find in your local hospital/clinic. Check out the CIB and schools' sites for more info.

I'd say your chances are slim at the moment. That being said, it would only cost a couple hundred to get a few apps out in the mix, if you don't mind losing it. It sounds like you are realistic and motivated to remedy what's lacking in your app over the next year or two, so I think you'll be successful in the end. Best of luck!

 

[group_theory]

Here's my "story" 🙂

To put it out there, I graduated with about a 2.5 cum GPA from a top 5 public university (which was later rounded up to 2.7 by AACOM) and have a 23N MCAT from last summer. It's useless to make excuses for my grades, but needless to say, toward the end of college, I was less than inspired to go to medical school; I didn't think I was cut out for it.

I finished in May and since then have decided to take at least a year off to, in short, figure out life. I got a job at a great hospital and being surrounded by so many residents got to me. What did I do over the last few years? I should be headed where they are.

In Late July I applied to several DO schools (PCOM, UNECOM, UMDNJ, Ohio, Touro-NY). Although I struggled with the stigma of MD >> DO, I realized that I do actually want to practice primary care or internal medicine, and that my personality and lifestyle flow with that of osteopathic philosophy.

After calling some schools, I felt dejected and decided to pull my application. But I couldn't figure out how to do it! haha. So I said, whatever and just forgot about it. I would apply again in a few years after I complete my masters and re-take my MCAT in the spring.

To make a long story LESS boring -- two days ago, out of the blue (or so it felt), I received an email from UNECOM inviting me to complete the second. Later, I got a letter from PCOM about theirs. I was SO confused; I didn't think my app was even verified. I checked AACOM and sure enough ,my app had been released about a week ago.

So now I'm going insane. I don't know what to do. I feel like secondaries go out to most people. Even so, I'm still closer than I ever thought to being able to attend medical school. I have great LORs ready to go (my academic advisor whom i've been closed to throughout college, the dean of the liberal arts college of my university whom i've also known all four years, and a MD whom i've known for about 3 years. my school doesn't have a pre-med committee).

Extracurricularly, I'm working now doing research at a major hospital in my area. I'm involved at the alumni level with my sorority and have done a lot of community service. I'm also training for an endurance event (triathlon) for a good cause (blood cancer). In short, I'm keeping myself really busy, while trying to find opportunities that connect me to medicine. I'm also interesting in pursuing a MPH either during or after medical school (I'm particularly interested in PCOM's DO/MPH dual degree and also because it's only 2 hours away from where I live now; I want to be close to family) and have sought opportunities in public health as well.

Do I have any chance at all at this point? Given that many of the secondary deadlines are in February, and I plan to have mine out within a week, I hope to be considered.

Also, does anyone know where to point me to so I can do more research on the demographics/diversity of incoming classes? I'm a black female and kinda worried about that. I haven't come across many black, or even latino, DO's (I live in a DO friendly state).

Sorry for the novel! 🙂

Being a black female helps when it comes to admission.
Could your GPA be higher - yes. Could your MCAT be higher - yes. But with a 2.7 AACOMAS GPA and a 23 MCAT, with healthcare experience, research experience, and community service, you may have a chance. I would go ahead and fill out the secondaries. If you can get a DO LOR, it would be better (although the schools may not require it, it will strengthen your application).

As for black DOs - roughly 7% of applicants last year designated themselves as black. For PCOM's matriculating class, 7% of the class is black. For UNECOM, it's 2%. For UMDNJ, it's 13%, Ohio is 8%, and Touro NY is 5%.


If you don't get in this year ... retake some of your undergrad classes and do well - your GPA will go up. And retake MCAT.

Good luck.

Source: AACOM

 

[futuredrandwife]

To repeat what Chocolate Bear said, your science GPA is a little below average but within standard deviation compare to last year's applicants (3.39 with 0.33 sd)

Otherwise, with good MCAT, good healthcare experience, demonstrated leadership qualities, and can get a DO LOR (from your internist), then you look good.

Your next question will be how to choose between the various acceptances in your hand 😀

Hahahahah thanks!! That makes me feel a lot better. You don't think my MCAT is a bit low?? It's a 25Q but I think my saving grace is that it was balanced and that I did not score below an 8 in any section (8PS 8VR 9BS). I was considering calling my internist today or tomorrow to ask if I could possibly shadow her because I doubt she would want to write a LOR since she is only my physician and was never an employer. Luckily I have strong LORs otherwise as well, but I am sure one from a DO is strongly recommended.

 

[seva86]

Thanks for advice/stats!

I honestly think it will be a miracle if I get in this time around but I will continue to work at it. Once I get my secondaries out of the way, I'll just put it out of my head (like I did with the primary). Less stress 🙂

Best wishes to everyone 🙂

 

[225397]

🙂

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Hi guys, I'm having a lot of trouble deciding between AZCOM and TUCOM-CA. The deposits are due very soon and I was hoping if anyone could give me their input-especially current students or others deciding b/w the two schools! these are the Main pros and cons for me (they are both excellent schools):

AZCOM pros: beautiful campus + others pros
cons-preceptorships in doctor's office settings mostly (vs the choice to work in hospitals as well which i would prefer), class size increase to 250, more recently founded.

TUCOM-CA: pros- more established school (been around longer), more hospital affiliations
cons-Didn't like sketchy/unsafe vibe i got from the location/campus, (esp. being a girl), students also said that it was kind of distant from food/places to go while NOT studying

AZCOM office of admission reported their last entering class's mcat score (26), TUCOM was (28). Does anyone know which school is more well respected in the field and provides more/better clinical rotations/residencies for their students? And where each school usually sends their students to do rotations?

I know the school that is the best fit for me is the one I should choose, but as of now I can't decide. Any help would be appreciated in this difficult decision, thanks! 🙂

This thread should help. Just fish around for the schools in question.

 

[rveit]

My application was FINALLY released on 9/24/2008 after multiple holdups with aacomas...my Overall GPA is 3.52 with a Non Sci 3.77 and Sci 3.24...i just received my august 22nd mcat score 27Q which was about 2 days late of being sent with my application, so that will probably take another week. What are my realistic chances of gaining interviews/acceptances this cycle. Thank you for your time to anyone who responds.

 

[rveit]

forgot to mention I'm Biology major/business minor i have a solid amount of EC's throughout college and I have shadowed a DO and received a letter from them, I also am currently volunteering in a Free Clinic at a local hospital, and I have spent numerous hours with my family physician in a rural town.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

My application was FINALLY released on 9/24/2008 after multiple holdups with aacomas...my Overall GPA is 3.52 with a Non Sci 3.77 and Sci 3.24...i just received my august 22nd mcat score 27Q which was about 2 days late of being sent with my application, so that will probably take another week. What are my realistic chances of gaining interviews/acceptances this cycle. Thank you for your time to anyone who responds.

The only potential hiccup would be for any school with a 3.25+ sciGPA cutoff. It seems like there are a couple. Otherwise, looks good.

 

[rveit]

that was a lightning fast response, after surfing around this site for the past 2 months...i agree with the chocolate bear mod situation...personally i think you should be president. 🙂 on a different note, do you know which schools have a 3.25 sciGPA cutoff? also, is it realistic to feel comfortable about this seeing as how late my application was processed?