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Keko, i feel your pain... i am interview-less. i do hope the one you're waiting on brings wonderful news though!!
2010-2011 Internship Thread
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Keko, i feel your pain... i am interview-less. i do hope the one you're waiting on brings wonderful news though!!
thanks to all for the supportive words and insights...many of your thoughts/suggestions have been along the lines of what I have been thinking in terms of how to grow from this experience. I made an appt to meet with the internship/training director at my school to get some feedback as well.
also, I am one of those folks still waiting to hear from Howard. I called earlier today and was told the training director planned to send out notifications either today or tomorrow. so hopefully by this time tomorrow we'll have our answers.
good luck to all of you still waiting to hear from sites and best of luck to those going on interviews.
maybe once notifications are done and we are into the new year, we could use this forum to prepare for clearinghouse?
also, I am one of those folks still waiting to hear from Howard. I called earlier today and was told the training director planned to send out notifications either today or tomorrow. so hopefully by this time tomorrow we'll have our answers.
good luck to all of you still waiting to hear from sites and best of luck to those going on interviews.
maybe once notifications are done and we are into the new year, we could use this forum to prepare for clearinghouse?
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Still haven't heard from Cambridge Health....has anyone heard from the child track?....and just heard from Riverbend in NH, who I had heard from last week asking me to interview and today they said they cut their program. Bummer! Wish they had known that a week ago!!
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I'm very bummed about Riverbend... it was my top choice.
I know someone at CHA going for the child track who received an interview, but she's worked there before, so I'm not sure if their timetable was different. Just thought I'd give you the news I've heard so far.
Hola! If this has already been answered I apologize - I am playing catch up but will forget to reply if i wait until i get to the end of the forum.
I am also waiting on Hudson (congrats PhDee and condolences Hoping2Match, and which ever applies to the PSYdMHC who I don't think specified which way they heard), but be aware that at the time of your posting it was already almost 7pm on the East Coast (if you aren't there) and they likely weren't even in the office anymore. I wouldn't expect a response until tomorrow at this point.
Good luck to all of us still waiting to hear!!
Hi flpsych, I applied at the Poughkeepsie site (it was my favorite out of all my applications and I am grateful for the interview). I hope you heard good news from them. I have not been able to read all the responses from this blog since I have my company xmas party and must refrain from being glued to my phone. Im hoping everyone is doing well! 😉
I went through the internship match and clearinghouse process last year. In my opinion, clearinghouse was worse than match because of the hundreds of people sending their applications to random sites all at once... most sites fill available positions within a few hours.
My suggestion is that once the list of available positions is made available, contact everyone you KNOW at sites that have available positions or through your own school's training director, faculty, etc. At that point, sites are much more likely to offer positions to people they know (either directly or indirectly through someone they respect) rather than selecting a random person whom they have had a brief conversation with.
It's a tough process. It sucks, I know.
Ouch! I don't feel like they should cut you just because of that (it shows you're eager, right?!), but I def feel your pain.
Thanks for posting about Howard. I e-mailed the TD early this afternoon and have not received a response. He's probably inundated with e-mails though. I'm sure everyone who applied e-mailed or called today! So, keko, thank you for finding out and posting. Once I hear from them, I can finalize travel arrangements for my other interviews (I'm trying to combine trips as much as possible, as all the sites to which I applied are far from and in the same general direction from my current location).
Also, about continuing to use this forum, I hope people will still continue to post. Some of us will have interview questions, some of us will have clearinghouse questions, some of us will have questions about how to make ourselves more competitive for next year.... it just makes sense to me.
Congrats! So jealous you heard (good news) from them.
Did anyone apply to the Rockland site, or am I the only one who liked that one?? lol
Also -- I know this whole internship (rejection dejection acception) stuff seems really important right now...
but once you get settled into whatever brought you to this field to begin with... how many interview you got won't seem so important.
but once you get settled into whatever brought you to this field to begin with... how many interview you got won't seem so important.
To all of you who are without interviews, before clearinghouse, I would find out what was in my letters of reference. At my school, we would always request one extra letter to a site we were not really planning on applying to, and open it. We would then know what was in our letters of reference, and whether to send them or not.
I did the same thing but with a twist. I asked 5 people for letters, opened them, and sent the best 3.
Also, if you know you are going through clearinghouse, or re-applying to internship next year, become a paying member of your state psychological association (Spa) and then call the office and ask to be added to the spa's respective listserv. As soon as you're added to the listserv, send an e-mail to the listserv explaining your predicament. and asking if anybody in the state has any leads/ideas where to find local internship spots that may be unfilled. Also, if you can afford to, joing more than one spa (densely populated states such as Louisiana, New York and CA are your best bets because they are more likely to have post-docs available) & send out e-mails to all the SPAs you can.
I had a friend who received an APA-approved internship at a medical school this way a few weeks before clearinghouse started
Good luck
I did the same thing but with a twist. I asked 5 people for letters, opened them, and sent the best 3.
Also, if you know you are going through clearinghouse, or re-applying to internship next year, become a paying member of your state psychological association (Spa) and then call the office and ask to be added to the spa's respective listserv. As soon as you're added to the listserv, send an e-mail to the listserv explaining your predicament. and asking if anybody in the state has any leads/ideas where to find local internship spots that may be unfilled. Also, if you can afford to, joing more than one spa (densely populated states such as Louisiana, New York and CA are your best bets because they are more likely to have post-docs available) & send out e-mails to all the SPAs you can.
I had a friend who received an APA-approved internship at a medical school this way a few weeks before clearinghouse started
Good luck
Hola! If this has already been answered I apologize - I am playing catch up but will forget to reply if i wait until i get to the end of the forum.
I am also waiting on Hudson (congrats PhDee and condolences Hoping2Match, and which ever applies to the PSYdMHC who I don't think specified which way they heard), but be aware that at the time of your posting it was already almost 7pm on the East Coast (if you aren't there) and they likely weren't even in the office anymore. I wouldn't expect a response until tomorrow at this point.
Good luck to all of us still waiting to hear!!
Thanks for the reply! I know that it was late by the time I posted I was just confused as to why it is taking so long to hear from everyone. I have two interviews at the moment so another one or two would make a big difference.
I applied to Rockland. I love them.
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Do your recommenders know that you're doing this? If not, what you are doing is unethical.
Thanks for this. Unfortunately, we don't use paper copies of letters of rec anymore, so there is no sneaky way to go about finding out what is in them. I only had 1 person not offer to let me see mine, and now that I am not exactly overflowing with interview offers I wish I had asked to see it!
I am wondering about your friend who got the internship outside of Match, since sites aren't allowed to offer anything directly but must use the Match (and my understanding is that all APA sites are APPIC members, right?). So, how did that work?
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I received a rejection from the Cambridge Health child track on Monday. I hope you have better luck!
Congrats to all who have received good news!
I'm so anxious to be done with this process of hearing back from sites in order to proceed with my travel plans. I'm still waiting to hear from opposite sides of the map: Woodhull (NY) and Morrison OR). Is it safe to say that if I haven't heard by now, I shouldn't expect a response? 😕
I'm so anxious to be done with this process of hearing back from sites in order to proceed with my travel plans. I'm still waiting to hear from opposite sides of the map: Woodhull (NY) and Morrison OR). Is it safe to say that if I haven't heard by now, I shouldn't expect a response? 😕
I applied to Rockland, too. Haven't heard a word even after emailing and asking. Congrats, Isitover! That is great news. Hope you enjoy the party!
And yet, I appreciate Edieb being honest and open (yay anonymous forum!).
Btw...since we are all a little sensitive I do NOT mean this offensively or meanly b/c I doubt you are evil...but I couldn't help but be amused that you brought up ethics, and beneath your post it reads "Come to the dark side - we have cookies!" lol
Wait...what happened? Did I win the lottery? I don't think I did, and I KNOW I haven't gotten good news recently... lol I don't have an interview, if that is what you thought. Haven't heard a peep from Hudson. Let us know when they write you back! I plan to contact them tomorrow.
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lol IsItOver
I think if the referee wanted us to see the letter they would send us a copy. This sounds like a big red-flag...
Really? lol
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i was actually fortunate i suppose, for 1 i had several people say that we should request to see our letters and 2. all my letter writers offered to let me see it before i asked. also i agree with the other poster (i already forgot who said it) but if your writers are unaware you are doing that it does raise some questions.
also how was the site able to offer a position as my understanding is they are bound by participating in the Match and not offering outside of that (except for the clearinghouse)....?
Although MOST sites are honest, some sites will pick interns in an underhanded way. For example, during graduate school, I externed at a site in rural Louisiana that was APA-accredited. The site served essentially as a backup for students in my program although people from all over the country were invited to interview there. Very unethical, i know. My professor would essentially tell them, "I was my student XYZ to come here on internship. You're going to rank him #1 and he will rank you #1." He would then tell the prospective intern where to rank this site so there would be a match I have a feeling that where I interned in Michigan picked some interns in an underhanded way (because 2:4 interns always came from the same program and always worked there on externship the year before internship), and, from the pattern I could discern (students from the same graduate school at the local VA), the VA also knew whom they were going to select (although I cannot 100 percent confirm this about the VA, as I did not intern there)
Another example, a classmate who did not get any interviews a few years back, simply joined the Louisiana Psychological Ass'n (LPA) when she did not get any by 12/15 and sent an e-mail out on the LPA listserv and landed an internship that way. I think the DoT there just made an extra spot for her, but believe me, this process is not as cut and dry as you think. People do not always have your best interest at heart. You should alway be as ethical as possible, but when the stakes are big (like not matching), you have to look out for your best interests. Your advisors and your competitors are, so if you don't stand up for yourself, who will?
However, MOST sites do not engage in this shadey practice, so all of you will be fine. It is just a few.
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Yes, really.
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In regards to the clearing house:
If a site posts an opening- and you were rejected by them in December- is it stupid to reapply? Or if you don't match with a site you wanted (and interviewed there) can you apply?
I am not sure if this would be a waste of time- but curious what you have heard about years past.
I still have to read a lot about the clearinghouse- so I apologize if this is clearly stated in the rules.
If a site posts an opening- and you were rejected by them in December- is it stupid to reapply? Or if you don't match with a site you wanted (and interviewed there) can you apply?
I am not sure if this would be a waste of time- but curious what you have heard about years past.
I still have to read a lot about the clearinghouse- so I apologize if this is clearly stated in the rules.
yes, but if they can't say it to your face, then they shouldn't cravenly put it in a letter. BTW, all my letters were fine and I matched the first time out. However, I wasn't going to take it to chance and neither were my classmates.
Apparently I'm losing my mind! I read someone else's post too quickly and thought I saw you had gotten an interview at Rockland. My apologies! I will certainly update everyone as soon as I hear back. I asked if not hearing meant we were not invited to interview...I hope not
Okaaay emailed the DOT at a site I didn't hear from today and still no response...Guess I'm stuck wandering because I feel like once you contact them once it would be a little overkill to try again. Although, it seems like if a site offered you or wanted to offer you an interview and never heard back, they might try again.
Well hopefully you can re-congratulate me tomorrow 🙂 I keep hearing "don't assume ANYTHING until you hear one way or another." At least one person heard a rejection from Hudson today, which means both interviews and rejections went out so the only reason for us not to hear is simply b/c they didn't get to us in time! Perhaps it is a good sign b/c, while rejections tend to be mass-emails, interviews seem more likely to be personalized and thus take more time. At least that is how I am framing it 🙂
Btw, I had one site reject me via my personal e-mail which I provided as "back-up" on the AAPI (vs. my school email which everyone else has used). Sites also have our phone numbers, so they def have a number of ways to contact us in the event we either don't respond (to an invite) or our e-mail bounces back.
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It's not unethical. Nowhere in the APA code of ethics does it state, either explicitly or implicitly, that you have to notify your recommender if you read his or her letter. If the recommender specifically said, "I don't want you to read this letter," and the student deceived the recommender in order go against an explicit request not to read it, then that would be deceptive. . . going against virtue and principle, but still not against the ethical code.
I don't know why anyone, though, wouldn't ask to see a letter beforehand. If a recommender isn't willing to show you the letter, then that's a red flag that he or she isn't saying great things about you. I think it's much more unprincipled of a recommender to write a negative letter without warning a student that the letter won't be a raving endorsement, or without suggesting to the student, tactfully, that asking another recommender might be a good idea.
I thought this might be the case but didn't have the energy or motivation to look it up. It is funny how those of us newer to the field have a tendency to dub anything we consider wrong or immoral as "unethical." When referring to psych ethics we need to remember we are referring to the code, and while it is also supposed to guide us to be over-all good people, you couldn't report someone for being a jerk or lying to you (except in specific, already laid-out situations from the code).
I agree that it is probably not unethical, per se. However, it does seem to be unfair to your letter writers. Most supervisors devote a great amount of time and attention to writing a letter of recommendation for someone. They know how important a good letter can be which is why they sometimes take weeks to write one. Just imagine how someone would feel if they found out that they did you the favor a writing a letter and then you didn't even use it...I'm sure that if a supervisor found out you did that with their letter it would damage your relationship with that person. I do understand how important good letters are so I don't see anything wrong with discussing the content of the letter before it is written, but it seems wrong to have 5 letters written and only use 3.
I have to respectfully disagree. As far as I know, it is common practice to request an extra letter or two, and then pick from the bunch. My experience has also been that while writers DO want to write the best letter possible, they often take weeks because they simply do not get to it. I, and many I know, had letters uploaded after the deadline we had set for our writers (thankfully we had the foresight to tell writes a date prior to the first app deadline) because they simply did not get to them in time. Because of this, we did not even have the option of discussing the content and suggesting major changes. I had four letter writers, and one ended up not saying so much about me clinically (a prof I TA'ed for) so I did not use that for most of my sites. However, when applying to a site heavy on interns doing academics/teaching/supervision I did use that letter. Thus, it was not a waste of her time. But, as was said by someone else before, we can not rely on others to look out for our best interests and need to do what we can (within reason) to ensure our application is as strong as possible.
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childpsyc11,
I had this situation happen last year when I participated in the Clearinghouse. A site that I ranked after interviewing was in the Clearinghouse. Clearly they hadn't ranked me. I still reapplied, but didn't get the position. I don't think it is a bad idea to reapply because you might have a better chance of being offered a position than someone they have not interviewed with/met. When another site I applied to and did not interview at last year suddenly had an open position much later, I reapplied there as well after talking to the TD at the site. She encouraged me to apply. It's not that we're not necessarily good matches in these situations, it has to do with the site perceiving others as being better matches.
I agree that finding out what was contained in your letters is a good idea in the event that you do not match. However, the approach mentioned above (as previously indicated) is unethical, dishonest, and down-right scandalous behavior in my opinion. It's a shame you felt the need to do that. It suggests a lack of confidence in yourself and your mentors.
Regardless of whether or not its in the Ethics Code itself is irrelevant. Simply because "the code" doesn't explicitly prohibit against a given behavior doesn't make it right. To justify your actions simply because "the rules don't say you CAN'T!" demonstrates an unsophisticated and immature understanding of the document and its intent.
BUT, if you want to get technical about then I shall refer you to principle C which states: "Psychologists seek to promote accuracy, honesty, and truthfulness in the science, teaching, and practice of psychology. In these activities psychologists do not steal, cheat, or engage in fraud, subterfuge, or intentional misrepresentation of fact."
And yes, I understand that "General Principles, in contrast to Ethical Standards, do not represent obligations and should not form the basis for imposing sanctions" . . . . "Their intent is to guide and inspire psychologists toward the very highest ethical ideals of the profession."
The appropriate way would be to ask your letter writers directly to view what they wrote.
And as for the comment about others not looking out for your best interest? Seriously?! I have no idea what kind of program you come from, but where I'm from I have 100% faith in my mentors and know - without a shadow of a doubt - that they all have my best interests at heart and do everything in their power to ensure that I as a student succeed to the maximal extent possible.
I don't understand why sites have vacancies after hosting interviews. Obviously they pour over apps and selected the best of those apps for interviews, so how does a site still have an opening after all that work? If they didn't like the best of the best what are they hoping to find with candidates that come into the Clearing House? (no offense to anyone that will use Clearing House) Isn't the assumption that they had selected the best match and interviewed candidates. Enlighten me please.
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I could see your point. If I were a referee I would like to be asked for a copy instead of being made to believe I'm sending it to a site the student had no intention of applying.
Think it's more an issue of principle...personal values.
Yes, it sounds like you don't value yourself, pity
To the first two paragraphs: Wow. Perhaps you missed where people agreed not to be condescending/insulting/etc toward others? The quotes of the book were great, but would it not be possible for you to prove your point without attacking others? What does that say?
To the last: I, personally, am an adult. I no longer depend on others to protect me and do things for me. That is not to say I don't need help (aka - advice, guidance, letters of rec) but when it comes down to it I need to rely on myself. No offense, but I really doubt if it was between you and your mentor/whoever's child or family, or you or themselves in some serious situation, that they would chose you. Just a difference of opinion/approach. Try not to insult our programs to make yourself feel better about yours, k? Thanks!
That was pretty mean too - and I have been on your side here!
I think this is another example of a debate that, while perhaps important, does not belong on this forum. While letters of rec concerns are definitely relevant, ethics debates belong elsewhere. Let's please keep this a supportive place for everyone and focus on where we are in the internship application process now.
(For those who were here for the previous debate: see me not getting sucked in? Aren't you proud? lol 😉)
While I can see why one may not agree with asking for an extra letter and then reading it, I'm not sure I understand the ongoing and harsh debate. Personally, I believe that wanting to see the quality of the letter written is smart. I worked with a supervisor I know had a very high opinion of me and always gave me excellent evaluations, but when I read her letter it came across as very generic and bland. She offered to let me read it, so its not that she was hiding this from me. She went through this process a long time ago, I am her first practicum student, and I believe she just didn't understand what consistutes a strong letter for this process.
Yes, the most "ethical" or "moral" way to do that is to simply ask for a copy to view. But if people feel it is in their best interest to ask for an extra letter, that is their decision. If you think its wrong, don't do it. No further discussion necessary, in my opinion.
The ironic thing is we can't even do this with the online system, so all the judging others and negativity is for naught!
Yes, the most "ethical" or "moral" way to do that is to simply ask for a copy to view. But if people feel it is in their best interest to ask for an extra letter, that is their decision. If you think its wrong, don't do it. No further discussion necessary, in my opinion.
The ironic thing is we can't even do this with the online system, so all the judging others and negativity is for naught!
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People look to the codes ALL THE TIME to guide the specifics of their day-to-day conduct as it pertains to the field of psychology. If the codes fail to explicitly prohibit something, there is a reason for that, and psychologists are doing the right thing to use the codes in this manner.
I love your selective bolding of the quote from the General Principles. IN THESE ACTIVITIES is key--applying to internship is not related to the practice, teaching, or science of psychology. It is related to an extremely competitive system in which students are on the bad side of a major power differential. Remember that the codes as well as the principles exist to protect the person who has less power or the least power in a particular relationship. Students could not be more powerless in the internship application process. Professors and other mentors, in my view, are not following the spirit of the codes or the principles by not empowering students in this process in any way they can; an important way to do that is by making their letters available.
If reading a letter of recommendation without the recommender's knowledge or permission endangered a person who lacked empowerment in the scenario, that would clearly be unethical. Professors and mentors have nothing to lose whatsoever by having their letters read, nor does reading their letters, with or without their permission, in any way degrade the practice, science, or teaching of psychology.
You're very privileged to be in a program where all of the people who have power over you have nothing but your best interests at heart; you're very privileged to have no doubt that any of the people who have power over you would ever abuse it. I'm sorry that your privilege has made it difficult for you to imagine what is the reality for many people--narcissistic and just plain complacent mentors are extremely common, in the best and in the worst programs.
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Sorry, I posted my last reply before seeing that others had suggested this isn't relevant to the thread. I do think, though, that the lack of empowerment students experience in the internship application process is maybe an interesting topic for this thread.
To all out there still waiting on Geisinger- I reread their materials and it says they will notify us by "approximately Dec. 15th...." Grrrrrr..... anyone hear a response to an email they already sent? I am going to wait it out I guess....
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I think this statement says more about you than it does about me.
Actually I think your post came before that suggestion, so you're in the clear 😉 hehe j/k But you brought up a good point. I don't personally feel anything should be disallowed as a topic, and it IS relevant, though perhaps indirectly, but if people can't play nicely together than I feel it is better to focus on the positive aspects this forum offers - especially if the people being inappropriate and forwarding the topic aren't even regular posters (NOT meaning you!!). Just my take 🙂
Wow, that last little infight really put a damper on people's talkativeness huh?
I need you all! You distract me from my anxiety and provide comic relief! I feel so lost!!!
PhDee, can you tell us when Hudson is interviewing?
And does anyone know when UMDNJ Piscataway will be? I am probably going to e-nmail them tomorrow to ask because I really need to finialize the rest of my plans and want to include their interview time in my scheduling, just in case I get good news! ....Although, I don't know if I could move there - I can't spell that town's name right for the life of me!
I need you all! You distract me from my anxiety and provide comic relief! I feel so lost!!!
PhDee, can you tell us when Hudson is interviewing?
And does anyone know when UMDNJ Piscataway will be? I am probably going to e-nmail them tomorrow to ask because I really need to finialize the rest of my plans and want to include their interview time in my scheduling, just in case I get good news! ....Although, I don't know if I could move there - I can't spell that town's name right for the life of me!
