2010 MGMA Physician Compensation Survey

Started by sd55
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Brigade4Radiant said:
The bonuses need to be profit sharing or cash since they are specific on what they include. From the report: "However, it does not include the dollar value of expense reimbursements, fringe benefits paid by the medical practice such as retirement plan contributions, life and health insurance, automobile allowances, or any employer contributions to a 401(k), 403(b), or Keogh Plan."

What is weird with the General Peds median being 190k?
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I can tell you for a fact the MGMA data is misleading, and it must include other benefits such as health insurance or else they are conjuring up numbers out of thin air. I live in the most highly compensated region in the country (i.e. south central USA). I know well over 100 general pediatricians in a variety of private practice, hospitalist, university/academic settings and NONE of them make anything close to 200k unless they are managing a large group practice.

Its more like 130-140k on average.
 
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Socrates25 said:
I can tell you for a fact the MGMA data is misleading, and it must include other benefits such as health insurance or else they are conjuring up numbers out of thin air. I live in the most highly compensated region in the country (i.e. south central USA). I know well over 100 general pediatricians in a variety of private practice, hospitalist, university/academic settings and NONE of them make anything close to 200k unless they are managing a large group practice.

Its more like 130-140k on average.
Click to expand...

Just out of honest curiosity how is it that you know the individual salaries for over 100 pediatricians?
 
Sheldor said:
Just out of honest curiosity how is it that you know the individual salaries for over 100 pediatricians?
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Before I decided to pursue fellowship I asked around. They never said "this is my salary" but they all told me what a reasonable income to expect was, both as a starting pediatrician and somebody with many years of experience. And their numbers werent even close to 200k.

I also know what the peds residency grads from my institution were getting, since everybody talks about that and people dont really hide their offer.
 
Socrates25 said:
Before I decided to pursue fellowship I asked around. They never said "this is my salary" but they all told me what a reasonable income to expect was, both as a starting pediatrician and somebody with many years of experience. And their numbers werent even close to 200k.

I also know what the peds residency grads from my institution were getting, since everybody talks about that and people dont really hide their offer.
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All you gave was anecdotal evidence and this doesn't match up to the MGMA survey. Also you were asking about salaries of people who just finished residency. The MGMA is the most comprehensive survey which is why it costs around 300 dollars to get the full report.
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
All you gave was anecdotal evidence and this doesn't match up to the MGMA survey. Also you were asking about salaries of people who just finished residency. The MGMA is the most comprehensive survey which is why it costs around 300 dollars to get the full report.
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1. They're not all new grads. Some of them have been in practice for 15-20 years. Its split about half and half between newbies and experienced people > 10 years experience.

2. The most comprehensive source is not the MGMA, its the US Labor Department. They have census and IRS data from hundreds of thousands of doctors. According to the US Labor Dept, the median (not mean) physician salary across all specialties before taxes is approx 165k. According to MGMA, its closer to 280k. I know which one I would trust. Nobody on this board believes that 50% of all doctors make 280k or higher.

3. I suppose that all the people I talked to could be lying to me and purposefully mislead me as to what they are making, but I doubt it.

There's something wrong with the MGMA data. I'm not sure if its because they are including benefits or if they have a biased sample or what, but their numbers are clearly inaccurate.
 
Socrates25 said:
1. They're not all new grads. Some of them have been in practice for 15-20 years. Its split about half and half between newbies and experienced people > 10 years experience.

2. The most comprehensive source is not the MGMA, its the US Labor Department. They have census and IRS data from hundreds of thousands of doctors. According to the US Labor Dept, the median (not mean) physician salary across all specialties before taxes is approx 165k. According to MGMA, its closer to 280k. I know which one I would trust. Nobody on this board believes that 50% of all doctors make 280k or higher.

3. I suppose that all the people I talked to could be lying to me and purposefully mislead me as to what they are making, but I doubt it.

There's something wrong with the MGMA data. I'm not sure if its because they are including benefits or if they have a biased sample or what, but their numbers are clearly inaccurate.
Click to expand...

ok i'll bite
from the current OOH:
"In 2008, physicians practicing primary care had total median annual compensation of $186,044, and physicians practicing in medical specialties earned total median annual compensation of $339,738."

what's your source? their's is.... MGMA data. what's up?
 
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Socrates25 said:
1. They're not all new grads. Some of them have been in practice for 15-20 years. Its split about half and half between newbies and experienced people > 10 years experience.

2. The most comprehensive source is not the MGMA, its the US Labor Department. They have census and IRS data from hundreds of thousands of doctors. According to the US Labor Dept, the median (not mean) physician salary across all specialties before taxes is approx 165k. According to MGMA, its closer to 280k. I know which one I would trust. Nobody on this board believes that 50% of all doctors make 280k or higher.

3. I suppose that all the people I talked to could be lying to me and purposefully mislead me as to what they are making, but I doubt it.

There's something wrong with the MGMA data. I'm not sure if its because they are including benefits or if they have a biased sample or what, but their numbers are clearly inaccurate.
Click to expand...

U R WROnG
 
Socrates25 said:
2. The most comprehensive source is not the MGMA, its the US Labor Department. They have census and IRS data from hundreds of thousands of doctors. According to the US Labor Dept, the median (not mean) physician salary across all specialties before taxes is approx 165k. According to MGMA, its closer to 280k. I know which one I would trust. Nobody on this board believes that 50% of all doctors make 280k or higher.
Click to expand...

MGMA is THE database used for negotiations. Period. The gold standard.
The government numbers are fantasy. I have no idea where they come up with that crap. Look at anesthesia.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291061.htm
It claims 2010 numbers with a mean of 220,000. That's nuts. You can make almost that much in the military with a 4 year extension bonus. The mil is the lowest payer around by far. I don't know anyone outside of the UC system making that little. And they are the lowest payers I have ever seen. I'm in academics and I make more than 50% more than what the Labor Dept statistics show. My PP friends think I'm a dumb***** for staying in academics! The average is close to twice what they report. From my real world experience, academia runs 225-450, employed 300+, PP 350+-??? (plus maxed out 1099 retirement plans). That's what an anesthesiologist makes, not 220. Anywhere. I know employed CRNAs that make more than 220 FFS.
Physicians in practice use MGMA. Believe it. And be happy.🙂...😀...😍

BTW, what do my numbers seem to support? Oh yeah, the MGMA report.:idea:
 
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I was looking for the breast surgeon breakdown..is that anywhere in the publication. Or do they only do general surgeon?
 
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jdh71 said:
My argument applies to them as well and their compensation is not their fault as much as a society that values what they do provide. If we're stupid enough to pay a large man with a hormone imbalance lots of money to carry a ball over a line or put a round one in a hole, that's not his fault, and he should laugh all the way to the bank.
Click to expand...


Sorry to get extremely off topic, but this argument cannot be applied to professional athletes. Whether or not you support the athletes directly, chances are that you'res supporting them indirectly. For example: I despise football, but I will need to purchase a new car one day. A main part of the revenue for the NFL, and football in general, is through commercialization, including car companies. So, if Ford provides a large sum of money to a TV station to air commercials during football games, the TV station pays the football team to televise their games, and Ford also pays the NFL for exclusive rights to be the "car of the National Football League," the cost of my vehicle will be inflated to pay those commercial fees. The fees will, eventually, make their way to the players. So, ultimately, we're paying for their salary whether or not the player has any benefit to us in entertainment value. This applies to a number of companies throughout a number of industries, and nearly every sport in existance. It's ridiculous.

Let me step down from my soap box now.
 
Socrates25 said:
I can tell you for a fact the MGMA data is misleading, and it must include other benefits such as health insurance or else they are conjuring up numbers out of thin air. I live in the most highly compensated region in the country (i.e. south central USA). I know well over 100 general pediatricians in a variety of private practice, hospitalist, university/academic settings and NONE of them make anything close to 200k unless they are managing a large group practice.

Its more like 130-140k on average.
Click to expand...


sucks for you I guess
 
Socrates25 said:
I can tell you for a fact the MGMA data is misleading, and it must include other benefits such as health insurance or else they are conjuring up numbers out of thin air. I live in the most highly compensated region in the country (i.e. south central USA). I know well over 100 general pediatricians in a variety of private practice, hospitalist, university/academic settings and NONE of them make anything close to 200k unless they are managing a large group practice.

Its more like 130-140k on average.
Click to expand...

Well I can't speak to the peds numbers, but the numbers for cardiology and IM are pretty accurate based on my experience. The other IM sub-specialty numbers look about right too.
 
i think the trick here is that the numbers are "compensation" and not "salary."

compensation often includes things like malpractice insurance coverage, paid time off, CME funds, health insurance, etc. in addition to salary. these numbers seem correct to me in terms of being compensation numbers, but not salary numbers.
 
werd said:
i think the trick here is that the numbers are "compensation" and not "salary."

compensation often includes things like malpractice insurance coverage, paid time off, CME funds, health insurance, etc. in addition to salary. these numbers seem correct to me in terms of being compensation numbers, but not salary numbers.
Click to expand...


Nope in the survey they are quite clear what they define as salary and have another section dedicated to 401ks and bonus pay,
 
werd said:
i think the trick here is that the numbers are "compensation" and not "salary."

compensation often includes things like malpractice insurance coverage, paid time off, CME funds, health insurance, etc. in addition to salary. these numbers seem correct to me in terms of being compensation numbers, but not salary numbers.
Click to expand...

That's not included in the MGMA numbers:


What is the definition of total compensation?
Total compensation is defined as the amount reported as direct compensation on a W2, 1099 or K1 tax form, plus all voluntary salary reductions (401(k), 403(b), section 125 tax savings plan). The amount reported should include salary, bonus, incentive payments, research stipends, honoraria and distribution of profits. It does not include expense reimbursements, fringe benefits paid by the medical practice (retirement plan, life and health insurance, automobile allowances) or any employer contributions to a 401(k), 403(b) or Keogh plan.*
 
IlDestriero said:
MGMA is THE database used for negotiations. Period. The gold standard.
The government numbers are fantasy. I have no idea where they come up with that crap. Look at anesthesia.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291061.htm
It claims 2010 numbers with a mean of 220,000. That's nuts. You can make almost that much in the military with a 4 year extension bonus. The mil is the lowest payer around by far. I don't know anyone outside of the UC system making that little. And they are the lowest payers I have ever seen. I'm in academics and I make more than 50% more than what the Labor Dept statistics show. My PP friends think I'm a dumb***** for staying in academics! The average is close to twice what they report. From my real world experience, academia runs 225-450, employed 300+, PP 350+-??? (plus maxed out 1099 retirement plans). That's what an anesthesiologist makes, not 220. Anywhere. I know employed CRNAs that make more than 220 FFS.
Physicians in practice use MGMA. Believe it. And be happy.🙂...😀...😍

BTW, what do my numbers seem to support? Oh yeah, the MGMA report.:idea:
Click to expand...

If you read the fine print on the BLS website and did the math they peg the average gas doc at just above 320k.

Yar?
 
does anyone still have access to the full 2010 mgma compensation report? If so, willing to share? PM me. thanks.
 
SD55 - your PM box is full.
Can you or anyone else email the full MGMA report, to
vajurewi AT comcast.net

thank you
 
gravitywave said:
ok i'll bite
from the current OOH:
"In 2008, physicians practicing primary care had total median annual compensation of $186,044, and physicians practicing in medical specialties earned total median annual compensation of $339,738."

what's your source? their's is.... MGMA data. what's up?
Click to expand...

The AAMC also cites MGMA data on their "careers in medicine" specialty pages. Checkmate, Socrates.
 
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SD55, your email box is too full to PM you. Could you PM me with the big version?
 
If somebody could PM me the report, or contact me via PM and I'll give you my email. I would greatly appreciate it!
 
Socrates25 said:
1. They're not all new grads. Some of them have been in practice for 15-20 years. Its split about half and half between newbies and experienced people > 10 years experience.

2. The most comprehensive source is not the MGMA, its the US Labor Department. They have census and IRS data from hundreds of thousands of doctors. According to the US Labor Dept, the median (not mean) physician salary across all specialties before taxes is approx 165k. According to MGMA, its closer to 280k. I know which one I would trust. Nobody on this board believes that 50% of all doctors make 280k or higher.

3. I suppose that all the people I talked to could be lying to me and purposefully mislead me as to what they are making, but I doubt it.

There's something wrong with the MGMA data. I'm not sure if its because they are including benefits or if they have a biased sample or what, but their numbers are clearly inaccurate.
Click to expand...


Jan 18th, 2012 issue of JAMA has an add in the career center (page 316) looking for a pediatrician in Grenada, MS. Base salary $205k, with productivity incentives based on performance, so there's that.
 
You guys do realize that regardless of whether you put much stock in this table for current salary info, it's based on 2010 data. A lot is changing in medicine and it's pretty safe to say that if you are a med student now, none of the data will be particularly relevant in the 4-8 years before you are done with your training. Particularly so in a bad economy and heading into an election with healthcare at it's crux. I wouldn't count all your future earnings just yet.
 
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Law2Doc said:
You guys do realize that regardless of whether you put much stock in this table for current salary info, it's based on 2010 data. A lot is changing in medicine and it's pretty safe to say that if you are a med student now, none of the data will be particularly relevant in the 4-8 years before you are done with your training. Particularly so in a bad economy and heading into an election with healthcare at it's crux. I wouldn't count all your future earnings just yet.
Click to expand...

I sure hope the sky doesn't fall right when I'm getting there. 🙁
 
Could somebody please PM or email me the full report? Much appreciated! I'm currently a GI fellow and looking for a job. Wanted to see what the starting salaries were in my area

[email protected].

Thanks again!
 
Law2Doc said:
You guys do realize that regardless of whether you put much stock in this table for current salary info, it's based on 2010 data. A lot is changing in medicine and it's pretty safe to say that if you are a med student now, none of the data will be particularly relevant in the 4-8 years before you are done with your training. Particularly so in a bad economy and heading into an election with healthcare at it's crux. I wouldn't count all your future earnings just yet.
Click to expand...

You're a fool if you think physician salaries will be affected much. I could see a general slight decline on a yearly basis, but don't be expecting the sky to start falling. Doctors' salaries aren't the problem here and the AMA has been relatively effective at keeping salaries at non-ridiculous levels. Compare our situation to that of graduating lawyers, as I'm sure you already have.
 
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