2012-2013 Pre-Interview Thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I went to a lot of these places and have written fairly extensively on them in the past. The quick version:

UVa - Rocks.
VCU - Pretty good, especially if you like working with an urban/underserved crowd. Strong consult team.
Carilion (Roanoke) - Nice people, not the best program. A good and worthy back up. Roanoke doesn't have a lot to offer as a city. Weak didactics and the VA part kind of sucks, IMO.

Wake - over rated, and watch out for their call schedule.
ECU - See Roanoke. A good backup or a good place for a particularly weak candidate. Pretty "meh" town.
I didn't got to Duke or UNC so on your own.

MUSC: Rocks with research $$$ and work
USC-Palmetto: Rocks without research $$$ and one of the best schedules anywhere.

WVU (Morgantown): Strong program, sucky town (IMO). Particularly strong in opiate addictions. Great hours. Off at 4pm if you're not on call or off service. Longest service Chairman in all of medicine (any field). Don't know anything about the other WVU.

Northeast: Check out Vermont and Maine in particular. I'm not a fan of the Hartford Hospital program. For me, I find the cost of living in the Big Cities (NYC, Boston, Chicago, Philly, etc) to make those places not worth it...plus it's cold.

Out West: Not sure what you mean, but strong contenders for me would be: Indiana, Iowa, MCW (Milwaukee, WI), and Vanderbilt.

Good luck!
I like Arizona (Tuscon, at the university), UNM, UC Davis, and Oregon ... really due to a combination of what I read about the programs, where I'd want to live, where I know people, etc...I prefer mid-sized towns with lots of outdoor activities. And I agree I should definitely consider Maine, Vermont, NH.

PS: Thanks (digitlnoize) for the help/comments. I really appreciate it!

Members don't see this ad.
 
Thanks Doc Bagel, and others. Are there other programs in the area and somewhat beyond that I am overlooking that may be worth applying to? I fear my list may be too short, makes me a bit queasy. I'm a fairly average medical student, maybe slightly above avg boards, some research, good LORs, etc.

This makes you a good applicant. Really, it does. You've got research, you passed your boards without problems, you've done just fine in medical school and people like you. Do you have anyone at your medical school you can talk to? I'm sure they would be very encouraging.

Now about applications, I think 10 places that aren't all super competitive places would be a good number.
 
I like Arizona (Tuscon, at the university), UNM, UC Davis, and Oregon ... really due to a combination of what I read about the programs, where I'd want to live, where I know people, etc...I prefer mid-sized towns with lots of outdoor activities. And I agree I should definitely consider Maine, Vermont, NH.

PS: Thanks (digitlnoize) for the help/comments. I really appreciate it!

You might want to add Utah as well.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I like Arizona (Tuscon, at the university), UNM, UC Davis, and Oregon ... really due to a combination of what I read about the programs, where I'd want to live, where I know people, etc...I prefer mid-sized towns with lots of outdoor activities. And I agree I should definitely consider Maine, Vermont, NH.

PS: Thanks (digitlnoize) for the help/comments. I really appreciate it!

Oh yeah, UNM should definitely be on the list! Have only heard great things, plus bugs are less freaky there. I hate bugs. :scared:

Seriously, there was a thread on city-data.com about bugs in Arizona and it totally made me take them off the list. Scorpions in your shoes. IN YOUR SHOES!!! OMG. I couldn't imagine. Ick.

Oh yeah, I'd heard good things about Utah. Applied, but cancelled after more easterly interviews started rolling in. Probably a good place for you.

UVa should be very high on your list too. Seriously. I grew up in Charlottesville and it's a small-med town with TONS of outdoor stuff, great weather/culture, and close proximity and easy travel to a number of larger cities with very cool things to do. Plus DO friendly and a great overall program.

Do you have a particular interest? Child? Forensics? Etc?
 
Yeah you can actually sit outside in the desert at night without getting eaten alive by mosquitos and it's cool at night ...
 
Oh yeah, UNM should definitely be on the list! Have only heard great things, plus bugs are less freaky there. I hate bugs. :scared:

Seriously, there was a thread on city-data.com about bugs in Arizona and it totally made me take them off the list. Scorpions in your shoes. IN YOUR SHOES!!! OMG. I couldn't imagine. Ick.

Oh yeah, I'd heard good things about Utah. Applied, but cancelled after more easterly interviews started rolling in. Probably a good place for you.

UVa should be very high on your list too. Seriously. I grew up in Charlottesville and it's a small-med town with TONS of outdoor stuff, great weather/culture, and close proximity and easy travel to a number of larger cities with very cool things to do. Plus DO friendly and a great overall program.

Do you have a particular interest? Child? Forensics? Etc?
Just Adult Psych for now. I like inpatient > outpatient. I'm sure that could change in 4 years though.

I also like Community Psych/working with underserved populations ....
 
Last edited:
...

Re: kassy's list:

College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Rochester), Rochester, MN - Why not?
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN - Why not?
...
Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals, Milwaukee, WI - Awesome program. Brrrr.
University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI - Didn't go here, but it's probably pretty good.
...
Not bad. Why not some of these:

USC-Palmetto - I'm a huge fan. My #2. You have MUSC.
Vanderbilt - DO friendly, great program, great city.
WVU - Great program, small college town, football, snow, close to Pitt.
Indiana U - My MVP. I truly loved this program. Would've been #1 or 2 except for family reasons.
U Iowa - Best program in the midwest IMO. If you're going to do Kansas, you'd BETTER do Iowa.

Just a thought--if you're willing to brave the cold (2 words: global warming!) in the upper midwest, and if, as your posts previously suggest, you are a D.O. student, you might also add Hennepin County (Minneapolis) to your list.
 
Last edited:
You'll be fine unless again you murdered somebody or spent some time in jail.
But if you murdered somebody and didn't spend any time in jail, then they probably wouldn't know about it. Unless you're one of those people that has a hard time not blurting out the truth when you should keep your mouth shut.

No one should live in New Jersey except Snooki.
:cry:
It's really a wonderful state to live in. Most people aren't like the Jersey Shore people (a majority of which weren't from NJ). Depending on where you are, you can be close to NYC, Philly, or both. In the state itself you have AC, 6 Flags, mountains, lakes, beaches. No matter what you want, you can find it in NJ.
 
Unless you're from Cali, I wouldn't bother. Overrated, expensive, not super DO friendly, I could go on and on. Earthquakes. San Diego, maybe.

....

Illinois sucks, skip it.

As for Illinois, Chicago is an amazing city. The culture factor is so high along with the cuisine and city life. Nobody stays single in Chicago.

Hey I'm from Cali. Come here if you love the coast. Anything inland is too hot. For some of us we can't live without a beautiful coast... have fond memories of cruising along PCH at sunset in my friends Ferrari 308 convertible (yes, the one Magnum PI drove) to grab burgers at Hard Rock, and then back down the coast passing everyone by. Decadent isn't it.
 
Holy moly, that's a lot of programs! And they seem kind of all over the places in terms of location and reputation. Unless you've got some major red flag, I'd cut it down. You're a DO, right? You'll be fine unless again you murdered somebody or spent some time in jail.
Well, my stats aren't great, and so I thought I would apply to alot of places.

For cutting stuff down, I'd start with geography and go from there.
I kinda don't really have an opinion on where to go...as long as it isn't somewhere I've been already =) Well... decent BBQ and seafood are musts.

Now, while this doesn't help with cutting stuff down, if you're applying in Wichita and N. Texas, I'd also look at University of Oklahoma - Tulsa.
Darn...I just added on all 3 oklahoma programs....
 
USC-Palmetto - I'm a huge fan. My #2. You have MUSC.
Vanderbilt - DO friendly, great program, great city.
WVU - Great program, small college town, football, snow, close to Pitt.
Indiana U - My MVP. I truly loved this program. Would've been #1 or 2 except for family reasons.
U Iowa - Best program in the midwest IMO. If you're going to do Kansas, you'd BETTER do Iowa.

Alrighty, added on WVU, Indiana U, and Iowa.
 
Thanks to everyone's input,
I managed to get down to 39 programs...pretty decent considering I wavered up to 50 at one point in the last 24hours.
-Cali is nice, but I have discovered that shoveling snow and not having to fight traffic is pretty fun.

What am I looking for in a program?
--DO friendly...and takes a comlex of under 80
--lots of addiction medicine & dual diagnoses (not necessarily having an addiction med fellowship, but exposure to lots of it)
--child psych inpatient ward
--geriatrics inpatient ward
--preferably having a V.A. rotation -- I owe much to the V.A., and I would like to learn how to work with PTSD
--rural psych options
--would be nice to be near an airport that can get me back to Cali in <6 hours.
--near some body of water would be nice...or else nice green mountains =)

Where I would not apply: somewhere that is really competitive or very insistent on recruiting locals.

University of South Alabama Program, Mobile, AL <--- do they like non-Alabama people?

UCLA-Kern Medical Center Program, Bakersfield, CA
University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno Program, Fresno, CA

University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics Program, Iowa City, IA

Advocate Lutheran General Hospital Program, Park Ridge, IL
University of Illinois College of Medicine at Peoria Program, Peoria, IL

Indiana University School of Medicine Program, Indianapolis, IN

University of Kansas (Wichita) Program, Wichita, KS

Berkshire Medical Center Program, Pittsfield, MA

Maine Medical Center Program, Portland, ME

University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt Program, Baltimore, MD
Henry Ford Hospital Program, Detroit, MI [My middle name is danger! well, not really, but hey, it's a DO happy place, and it's in Michigan =) ]
St Mary Mercy Hospital Program, Livonia, MI [somewhere near Ann Arbor, and I like Michigan. Well, I just really like Kilwin's. ]

Vidant Medical Center/East Carolina University Program, Greenville, NC

Bergen Regional Medical Center Program, Paramus, NJ

Jamaica Hospital Medical Center Program, Jamaica, NY
NSLIJHS/Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine at Zucker Hillside Hospital Program, Glen Oaks
New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus)/New York State Psychiatric Institute Program,
St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center Program, New York, NY

University Hospital/University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Program, Cincinnati, OH

Griffin Memorial Hospital Program, Norman, OK
University of Oklahoma College of Medicine-Tulsa Program, Tulsa, OK
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center Program, Oklahoma City, OK

Oregon Health & Science University Program, Portland, OR [multicultural program]

Allegheny General Hospital-Western Pennsylvania Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA
UPMC Medical Education Program, Pittsburgh, PA
[I think Pennsylvania people are nice =)]

Medical University of South Carolina Program, Charleston, SC

University of South Dakota Program, Sioux Falls, SD <--- they recruit from my school

University of Tennessee Program, Memphis, TN

John Peter Smith Hospital (Tarrant County Hospital District) Program, Fort Worth, TX [DO happy!]
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School (Austin) Program, Austin, TX

Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine Program, Roanoke, VA
University of Virginia Program, Charlottesville, VA
Virginia Commonwealth University Health System Program, Richmond, VA

University of Vermont Program, Burlington, VT

University of Washington Program, Seattle, WA

Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals Program, Milwaukee, WI
University of Wisconsin Program, Madison, WI

West Virginia University Program, Morgantown, WV

Under consideration:
Hennepin County -- they have a minimum requirement for a COMLEX equivalent to USMLE 200. Not sure what that would be.
UNM - hum..... very tempting.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Random general question... I realize that this will vary from program to program, but I'd like to get a general idea if anybody knows:

If we get an interview offer, does that usually mean that we're on fairly similar footing as other people with interview offers at the same place (with the exception of people who might have exceptional CVs)? In other words, say I get an interview offer at some big-name institution, will most programs still continue to compare my board scores and rec letters/MSPE and personal statements at their rank meetings? Or do they usually just use those things to choose interview candidates and then rank you based on a general impression from you interview and your CV? Or am I way off base with either of those ideas?
 
Oh I know, and Philly is also cheaper than the other two...but it's still FAR FAR FAR cheaper to live in Columbia SC, Richmond VA, or even Charlottesville VA, than any of those places.
If you don't love the big city life, then a place like that is probably better for you. I did my undergrad in Columbia, MO, where I paid about $210/month for a pretty decent place right next to campus. I went to med school in Sydney, Australia, where I paid at least 4-5 times that price for a crappier place. But I was equally happy in both places - I thought that the big city lifestyle was worth the extra money, but I thought that the small-city compromises were justified by the savings.


In Columbia SC (USC-Palmetto) you can get a very nice ~2,000 sf house for ~150k. In Charlottesville that'll run you ~300k. What will you pay for 2000sf in a large city? Any large city. A whole lot more.
Depends on your definition of "large." And the part of the city in which you want to live. My family recently sold a nice house (about that size) in a nice suburb of St. Louis for about $250k. And they're shopping for a similar house in a somewhat-more-distant-but-equally-nice suburb of Chicago for a similar price.

I've heard that Texas (Houston, Dallas) is even cheaper than St. Louis.


Plus parking (or mass transit fees), crime, etc...it's just not worth it IMO.
Well, I like using public transportation... you can sleep or read on the way to the hospital. Crime is bad in some parts of the city, but most doctors won't be living in those parts of the city. Parking is a challenge in places like NYC, but if you don't have a car, you just pay a couple of dollars to take the train every day (instead of paying a couple of dollars for gas, plus a couple for insurance, plus a few for the car itself, plus a bit for maintenance).


I prefer to visit large cities rather than live in them. Best of both worlds.
Maybe, depending on your interests. What I love about large city life is that during a large portion of the year, I can choose to go to a rock concert, a chess club, a medical lecture, a sporting event, a specialty guitar shop, or whatever else I want to do. That wasn't the case in Columbia MO... decent rock concerts happened once every couple of weeks (and much more rare for a band that I actually like), the chess club had only a couple of decent players and only met on Monday nights, academic medical events were occasional at best, there were only a handful of decent sports matchups a year, and the guitar shops all sucked.

Also, in Sydney, those things were not only available, but often within a short walking distance. Not to mention the (literally) hundreds of different types of ethnic restaurants within a short walking distance. I lived a good chunk of my life in Pakistan, but the best Pakistani food I've ever had was at a particular restaurant in downtown Sydney, about a 10-minute walk from my last apartment.

Sure, other people might not be interested in rock music or chess or sports or medicine or guitars or Pakistani food, but everybody will find something to enjoy.

On the other hand, in Columbia, I had enough money left over to buy a nice car and a motorcycle and all of the toys I wanted. But in Sydney, I didn't need a car, so I spent that extra money on rent for a nice apartment within walking distance of everything. But in Columbia, I could leave my door unlocked or have a barbecue in the backyard. But in Sydney, I could have a barbecue on the balcony with a view of the harbor. But in Columbia, everything was within a 10-minute drive and there was no traffic. But in Sydney, I didn't have to drive because the public transport allowed me to go anywhere while sleeping or reading. But in Columbia, I could get to know the town inside and out. But in Sydney, I could discover new things every day. ... ... ... ...
 
Random general question... I realize that this will vary from program to program, but I'd like to get a general idea if anybody knows:

If we get an interview offer, does that usually mean that we're on fairly similar footing as other people with interview offers at the same place (with the exception of people who might have exceptional CVs)? In other words, say I get an interview offer at some big-name institution, will most programs still continue to compare my board scores and rec letters/MSPE and personal statements at their rank meetings? Or do they usually just use those things to choose interview candidates and then rank you based on a general impression from you interview and your CV? Or am I way off base with either of those ideas?

A program would not interview you if they did not, at the time of the interview invitation, believe that there was no chance that you would be ranked.

That being said, it is not true that "everyone is on equal footing" after the interview. It's not like the rest of your application vanishes after interview day and all we are left with is the impression you made on the interviewer. Clearly some applicants are more competitive than others. Someone with a Step 1 of 200, 2 Honors, mediocre letters, and no pubs may get an interview, and he may do fine on interview day. But compared to someone with a Step 1 of 250, 7 Honors, glowing letters, and 2 pubs who also does fine on interview day, he is probably at a disadvantage when it comes to the final rank.
 
A program would not interview you if they did not, at the time of the interview invitation, believe that there was no chance that you would be ranked.
Yeah, but what if they think there's just a slim chance that I might match?

That being said, it is not true that "everyone is on equal footing" after the interview. It's not like the rest of your application vanishes after interview day and all we are left with is the impression you made on the interviewer. Clearly some applicants are more competitive than others. Someone with a Step 1 of 200, 2 Honors, mediocre letters, and no pubs may get an interview, and he may do fine on interview day. But compared to someone with a Step 1 of 250, 7 Honors, glowing letters, and 2 pubs who also does fine on interview day, he is probably at a disadvantage when it comes to the final rank.

Sure, but it's usually not that cut-and-dry, is it? For instance, I have several positive points and negative points:

Bad:
IMG
Only one US rec letter (waiting on another one, but he's taking forever)
No research in psych
Step 2CS result won't be out until early December

Good:
IMG from University of Sydney, so probably not as bad as some other countries
Above-average scores on Step 1 and Step 2ck (227 and 242)
My American rec letter is about as good as I could have hoped for
Good rec letters from Australia (probably not too useful, but I'd imagine they're better than LoRs from Pakistan)
Reasonable amount of research experience outside of psych
Solid CV overall in terms of work experience, non-research publications, etc.
Pretty good personal statement (or so I'd like to think)
Good comments on my MSPE, but I don't know how much that matters for an IMG
Above-average grades, but I don't know how much that matters for an IMG


So, I think I'd be a reasonable candidate overall, except for that big IMG flag. I'm wondering if an above-average interview might help to make up for that... or if a borderline-just-barely-got-invited-for-an-interview candidate might only have a chance if he happens to reveal in the interview that he built a charity Ethiopian hospital with his bare hands in his spare time while he was on his lunch breaks from his job where he stopped global warming and turned down the Nobel Peace Prize because he has to maintain a low profile ever since he secretly escaped a prison camp in Burma so that he could help to evacuate his family from North Korea.

The reason it matters is because I'm wondering whether I should accept interviews at places that have no IMGs in their program right now. If they haven't accepted any IMGs before, I doubt that I'll suddenly shatter the mould.
 
Me: What do you think the chances are of a guy like you and a program like me... ending up together?
PD: Well, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
Me: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
PD: Not good.
Me: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
PD: I'd say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
Me: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*
 
what goes into the interviewee selection? is it more of a screening process, primarily based on board scores, school, type of candidate (AMG, DO, foreign IMG vs US-IMG), and citizenship? I can't imagine PDs and committees reading thousands of resumes, PS, and LORs prior to the actual interview.

will it hurt not to have all 3 (or 4) letters in by 9/15? I have my two psych letters in and processed, just waiting on one from an IM doc.
 
At the residency program where I trained, we received a squillion applications a year. It took our program director a lot of time to screen all of those applications. It took faculty and residents a lot of time to interview the candidates who were invited for an interview. It took all of us a lot of time to sit down at the selection committee meetings and engage in endless debates about the rank order list. At the institution where I am currently at, we probably get even more applications (can't say for sure since I am not on the selection committee).

Bottom line: it is not costless for a program to interview you. If we didn't think the expected value of the payoff (i.e., probability of the payoff times the value of the payoff) was worth the effort, we just wouldn't go through with it. It's not like there is a gnome sitting in a dungeon somewhere trying to think of ways to waste everyone's time and money.
 
The reason it matters is because I'm wondering whether I should accept interviews at places that have no IMGs in their program right now. If they haven't accepted any IMGs before, I doubt that I'll suddenly shatter the mould.

Which programs specifically? I really can't think of many, but if I got offered an interview at a place that had never had IMG's before I would still go - if its a really good program there is just no way you can justify not giving it a shot.

I think you are overestimating the problem, however. Some of the places that 'never' take IMG's as PGY-1's (like Columbia and UPenn, perhaps) will probably not interview IMG's either. Again, if this problem arises and you happen to get an interview at a program like this, you should really go - assuming you would want to train there, of course.

As an aside, I had no US letters of recommendation, only from the UK, and whilst I cannot comment on Pakistan, I am convinced they carried greater weight than those from my own country, particularly in the sense of showing the program directors I could work in an English speaking western system. I would think letters from Australia would provide similar assurance.
 
Which programs specifically? I really can't think of many, but if I got offered an interview at a place that had never had IMG's before I would still go - if its a really good program there is just no way you can justify not giving it a shot.

I think you are overestimating the problem, however. Some of the places that 'never' take IMG's as PGY-1's (like Columbia and UPenn, perhaps) will probably not interview IMG's either. Again, if this problem arises and you happen to get an interview at a program like this, you should really go - assuming you would want to train there, of course.
It's not so much about "giving them a shot" - if I'm interested in a program, I'd be more than happy to travel there for an interview. But I have a limited amount of time for interviews, and since I'm an IMG, I think I'll need to squeeze in as many interviews as possible in that time... I don't want to waste a potential interview slot on a program that's very unlikely to take me.

I know that I probably won't get invited to a place that "never" takes IMGs, but I'm thinking about the places that only have exceptional IMGs. Looking at the "current residents" list at certain programs, it seems like they do take some IMGs, but all of their current IMGs seem to have a PhD or an overseas board certification in psych.


As an aside, I had no US letters of recommendation, only from the UK, and whilst I cannot comment on Pakistan, I am convinced they carried greater weight than those from my own country, particularly in the sense of showing the program directors I could work in an English speaking western system. I would think letters from Australia would provide similar assurance.
That's good to know, considering where you matched. Thanks for the advice.
 
why would you bother applying to a place if you don't think you would interview there? Seriously, if you would like to match at a program and they dont have IMGs but they choose to interview you, you should attend the interview!

I interviewed at the odd place that didn't quite know what to do with IMGs and I am glad that I did. You should be flattered that they were interested in you. They are well aware that you may have to come from a different country, and would not waste your time if they had no interest in ranking you. Also if they afford you flexibility like seeing you on a non-interview day you know they are interested (but the corollary isn't true).

It is also a bit hard to read into what it means if a program has no IMGs. Columbia usually doesn't take PGY-1s who are foreign, but they do interview them. I know a couple of people who interviewed there but ranked them very low because they don't sponsor visas. They weren't on my radar because of this.

How ranking works varies from program to program. At my program the interviewers score the whole application (board scores, letters, CV) in addition to the interview which is weighted 50:50 with your ERAS app. So no you don't have a level footing when you enter the door. But you know its a random process, many programs did not do as well in the match last year as they wanted you have no way of knowing what you're up against.

A letter from australia is almost as good for many programs as a US letter (as long as it conforms to the rules I mentioned elsewhere). I can tell you I got interviews without having any US letters uploaded or a complete application.

I also applied a month late, incomplete app, to a program that had never taken an IMG and they interviewed me.

As I mentioned before, I also got rejected from the program I am at now (and they only had 1 IMG who had a neuroscience faculty position in the US beforehand) but didn't take any of it, and here I am, and I'm sure they are still ruing the day they ended up with me!
 
why would you bother applying to a place if you don't think you would interview there?
Well, I'm applying broadly because I don't know how programs will feel about some of my specific deficiencies. I might get rejected for an interview at an unknown small-town community hospital because they filter out everybody without a Step 2CS result, and I might get invited at a prestigious place because they have good past experiences with my medical school and they don't use the 2CS filter. So I figured I'd cast a wide net, just in case I don't get enough interviews to fill up my schedule.

Seriously, if you would like to match at a program and they dont have IMGs but they choose to interview you, you should attend the interview!
Yeah, I guess that's a good point.


I interviewed at the odd place that didn't quite know what to do with IMGs and I am glad that I did. You should be flattered that they were interested in you. They are well aware that you may have to come from a different country, and would not waste your time if they had no interest in ranking you. Also if they afford you flexibility like seeing you on a non-interview day you know they are interested (but the corollary isn't true).
Good to know, thanks. I assume that by "seeing you on a non-interview day" you mean "scheduling an interview" rather than "scheduling a second-look"? And I assume that by "corollary" you mean "converse"? I didn't realize that programs would be flexible in that regard, so that's definitely good to know.


How ranking works varies from program to program. At my program the interviewers score the whole application (board scores, letters, CV) in addition to the interview which is weighted 50:50 with your ERAS app. So no you don't have a level footing when you enter the door. But you know its a random process, many programs did not do as well in the match last year as they wanted you have no way of knowing what you're up against.
That's still pretty close to equal footing. i.e. if my application is a 50 and somebody else is a 60, then I can still be an equal-quality candidate if my interview score is 20% higher than the other guy's.


A letter from australia is almost as good for many programs as a US letter (as long as it conforms to the rules I mentioned elsewhere). I can tell you I got interviews without having any US letters uploaded or a complete application.
Also reassuring. I was fairly stressed about the fact that one of my US attendings still hasn't uploaded his letter (and he's gotten a bit frustrated with my occasional gentle reminders), but I guess my Aussie letter will substitute.


As I mentioned before, I also got rejected from the program I am at now (and they only had 1 IMG who had a neuroscience faculty position in the US beforehand) but didn't take any of it, and here I am, and I'm sure they are still ruing the day they ended up with me!
That's also good to know. I was under the impression that if you get rejected for an interview, you probably weren't a great candidate for their program anyway. But apparently, that's not the case.

As always, your advice is greatly appreciated!
 
Great. Glad this helped. Can we please now bring the thread back to a general discussion that includes more applicants?
 
Great. Glad this helped. Can we please now bring the thread back to a general discussion that includes more applicants?

Sorry about that; the initial question was meant to be generic, but it ended up becoming quite specific... still, I think a lot of the advice can apply to anybody. I thought that the thread was just for any interview-related discussion, but I guess I'll stop posting things that aren't completely generalizable.
 
Here's a question, any cities with a residency and a truly excellent donut shop within walking distance? I'm a bit partial to Buckeye Donuts in Columbus, OH, but I'm willing to broaden my horizons.
 
Help finding programs with some (or all) of the following??:

- Solid inpatient experiences with wide-range of pathology, preferably with free-standing psych hospital (e.g. WPIC).
- Good experiences / strong program for community psych, opportunities to work with the underserved, HIV patients, etc..
- International opportunities including working with local refugee populations
- Moonlighting starting in PGY-2
- Affiliation with and exposure to State and County Psych facilities

Thanks!
 
Help finding programs with some (or all) of the following??:

- Solid inpatient experiences with wide-range of pathology, preferably with free-standing psych hospital (e.g. WPIC).
- Good experiences / strong program for community psych, opportunities to work with the underserved, HIV patients, etc..
- International opportunities including working with local refugee populations
- Moonlighting starting in PGY-2
- Affiliation with and exposure to State and County Psych facilities

Thanks!

What part of the country do you want to live in?
 
Sorry about that; the initial question was meant to be generic, but it ended up becoming quite specific... still, I think a lot of the advice can apply to anybody. I thought that the thread was just for any interview-related discussion, but I guess I'll stop posting things that aren't completely generalizable.

I'm not a moderator, but I would think that is should be okay to discuss questions that are specific and not easily generalizable. Responses posted on SDN, in contrast to PMs transmitted to specific users, add to a database of information that can be searched for and viewed by future applicants who won't need to waste bandwidth posting the same questions again.

On Walden Pond may have been referring instead to what s/he perceived as a thread about general information being hijacked for applicant-specific advice. That's reasonable. But even so, I still don't see the problem. The past 10 or so posts did in fact yield information that is broadly applicable to many applicants: (1) programs don't issue frivolous invitations because doing so would waste their time; (2) it is probably not very fruitful to try to figure out whether you were one of the applicants who got an interview by the skin of your teeth.
 
I'm not a moderator, but I would think that is should be okay to discuss questions that are specific and not easily generalizable. Responses posted on SDN, in contrast to PMs transmitted to specific users, add to a database of information that can be searched for and viewed by future applicants who won't need to waste bandwidth posting the same questions again.

Yeah, that's why I try to ask most questions in public (unless there's some specific private information in there, which is rare - I'm not a very secretive person, except when it comes to confidential patient information). I figure that if I've had this question, somebody else might be wondering the same thing too.

But anyway, if some people are annoyed by clutter in the thread, I can understand that. Of course, I'm contributing to the clutter with this message, so I'll stop rambling now.
 
Yeah, that's why I try to ask most questions in public (unless there's some specific private information in there, which is rare - I'm not a very secretive person, except when it comes to confidential patient information). I figure that if I've had this question, somebody else might be wondering the same thing too.

But anyway, if some people are annoyed by clutter in the thread, I can understand that. Of course, I'm contributing to the clutter with this message, so I'll stop rambling now.

I don't know about others, but I personally find all the commentary somewhat useful.
 
Please feel free to ask any questions. I didn't mean to stop anyone. It's all useful. Just wanted to keep it open for others to chime in.
 
So I have a problem.I am still waiting on 2 LORs, I currently have 2 in the bank. Everything else is done, including USMLE scores and such. Should I still just go and submit everything on the 15th? Can I still update schools with my new letters once they come in?
 
So I have a problem.I am still waiting on 2 LORs, I currently have 2 in the bank. Everything else is done, including USMLE scores and such. Should I still just go and submit everything on the 15th? Can I still update schools with my new letters once they come in?

Yes and yes.
 
What part of the country do you want to live in?
Mid-Atlantic. Let's say within a 6-hour drive of Pittsburgh. But I do plan to look at a few programs outside of that area.
 
any insight into this program..
experience, thoughts, comments, questions, concerns...:thumbup::thumbup:
 
I don't know about others, but I personally find all the commentary somewhat useful.

I'm a fan of keeping these threads as broad as possible as well, especially as lots of people never post here and are only going to glean information from reading the answers to other people's questions.

Personally, I'll also share that I'm really bad keeping up with PMs on this site, so if you have a question about my program (kind of easy to figure out where it is if you do any sort of search), ask here, and I'll answer.

Also, some things I know now from being on the other side of the application world --

1. try to go to the meals. It's not always possible but try. That's your primary chance to meet residents. Also, residents might have a strong say in who to rank/not rank, so meeting them can help.

2. be very nice to the coordinator. They really do have input. Also be nice to the servers at the restaurant. No one wants to work with a jerk.

3. residents want to like you, and they also want to know that you'll show up to work. You don't need to appear really hard core about work, but you need to send off some sort of vibe that you're not super flaky. I don't want to be covering call for you. On that note, horrible as it is, if you have health problems, sharing them is probably not the best idea.

4. continuing that point -- sharing personal psychiatric history is tricky in a personal statement. In years past, this has raised lots of concerns about applicants when it comes to ranking. I know it seems hypocritical, but I think that's how it is. If you don't have to share your history, don't.
 
Last edited:
Getting really nervous/ excited about Saturday. I'm also really glad we have all be able to vent a little bit of our anxiety on this thread- plus getting some good questions answered.

The part of my application I keep coming back to is the "experience" section. I'm never quite sure how much to include. I want to account for time between undergrad and med school and include my extra activities in med school.
But how much other stuff should I really include? I'm under the impression the more "life experience" I have the better equipped I will be as a psychiatrist, but I also don't want to be that applicant that lists every job I had since high school. Especially as a late comer to the medical field, I don't have much experience that is directly related to medicine.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
 
Here's a question, any cities with a residency and a truly excellent donut shop within walking distance? I'm a bit partial to Buckeye Donuts in Columbus, OH, but I'm willing to broaden my horizons.

It's not technically in walking distance, but I dare you to find a doughnut in the world better than Spudnuts in Charlottesville. It'd be a 20m walk, <5m car ride, or 10m free bus ride/wait. About 1-2 miles from the hospital. Even better, we often have them at our weekly morning rounds.

Special mention for Bodo's Bagels which are basically the best bagels outside NYC (some say better...), and ARE within walking distance of the hospital.
 
Getting really nervous/ excited about Saturday. I'm also really glad we have all be able to vent a little bit of our anxiety on this thread- plus getting some good questions answered.

The part of my application I keep coming back to is the "experience" section. I'm never quite sure how much to include. I want to account for time between undergrad and med school and include my extra activities in med school.
But how much other stuff should I really include? I'm under the impression the more "life experience" I have the better equipped I will be as a psychiatrist, but I also don't want to be that applicant that lists every job I had since high school. Especially as a late comer to the medical field, I don't have much experience that is directly related to medicine.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I had the same concerns. I kept adding and deleting and adding back. I decided to include 2 or 3 things from undergrad that were huge for me (one was being editor-in-chief of the student newspaper, which was hundreds of hours of free labor each year). I thought they might be interesting to talk about since I'm sure interviews get a little dull after the first dozen or so.

Job-wise, I trimmed out all the stupid college jobs and only include the few I had that were related to education (an internship, etc) since I'm also interested in going the education/academic/teaching way post-residency.

I totally feel you on the minimal experience related to medicine (liberal arts grad :D). However, I felt like all the things I included were important, helped shape me then and helped me focus/distill my interests. I have very solid reasons for why I included each item, and I really think that is the best way to judge it.
 
I had the same concerns. I kept adding and deleting and adding back. I decided to include 2 or 3 things from undergrad that were huge for me (one was being editor-in-chief of the student newspaper, which was hundreds of hours of free labor each year). I thought they might be interesting to talk about since I'm sure interviews get a little dull after the first dozen or so.

Job-wise, I trimmed out all the stupid college jobs and only include the few I had that were related to education (an internship, etc) since I'm also interested in going the education/academic/teaching way post-residency.

I totally feel you on the minimal experience related to medicine (liberal arts grad :D). However, I felt like all the things I included were important, helped shape me then and helped me focus/distill my interests. I have very solid reasons for why I included each item, and I really think that is the best way to judge it.

Was just having a conversation with my coordinator about how few applicants seem to have any actual job experience--e.g. showing up for work, having to do what the Boss wants, getting an actual paycheck. Agree with purple rain--sometimes Real Life Experience does help you stand out.
 
Was just having a conversation with my coordinator about how few applicants seem to have any actual job experience--e.g. showing up for work, having to do what the Boss wants, getting an actual paycheck. Agree with purple rain--sometimes Real Life Experience does help you stand out.

Yah, I agree too. I just eliminated the really silly food service type things that I did for a semester. I kept the real jobs that had a point and an actual paycheck...especially the ones between college graduation and med school. I just felt like I ought to have some reason for including each one. My summer selling teddy bears didn't seem very relevant. :oops:
 
@OPD - I took a gap year between college and med school and took a paid position as a research assistant. so that kind of fulfills both work and research experience. however, ERAS doesn't give the option of specifying an experience as multiple types (work and research vs work or research). I figure I'll describe it as research that was full-time paid work -- does that seem ok?

@stiz - I'm curious about similar programs as the Mid-Atlantic is where I'd like to be as well (namely MD, DC, PA, VA, WV). but I'm an IMG, so I guess beggers can't be choosers either ;)
 
oops, a few more questions -- as a US-IMG, are 50 programs to few to be applying to? I'm ready to submit ERAS tomorrow with what I have, yet I've been told to add anywhere from 20-50 more programs (!). aside from where I go to school, I think I'm a decent applicant and have listed a range a programs from those that I might have pre-matched at (if it still existed) and reach programs (Yale, etc).

2. any suggestions on programs that have a range of..uhm...color, in their resident classes and faculty? I wanted to say diversity, but I think programs (or residents) seem to think "we have have a mix of US grads vs IMGs, blahblah" is such. I'm not trying to race-bait, but I do think it's a fair concern. a lot of posters have shared the good advice of going intuitively about this Match process. and for some of us, part of fit includes making sure we'd feel comfortable. I've been honestly dismayed by the residency profiles I've seen on several program sites. I understand several groups are already underrepresented in medicine as a whole, so I wonder, where do these psych applicants (of color) end up going?? :)
 
good luck everyone!! hope to meet many of you on the interview trail! :)
 
oops, a few more questions -- as a US-IMG, are 50 programs to few to be applying to? I'm ready to submit ERAS tomorrow with what I have, yet I've been told to add anywhere from 20-50 more programs (!). aside from where I go to school, I think I'm a decent applicant and have listed a range a programs from those that I might have pre-matched at (if it still existed) and reach programs (Yale, etc).
I just applied broadly. I have 107 programs on my list. I figured that I'd rather have too many than risk having too few.

2. any suggestions on programs that have a range of..uhm...color, in their resident classes and faculty? I wanted to say diversity, but I think programs (or residents) seem to think "we have have a mix of US grads vs IMGs, blahblah" is such. I'm not trying to race-bait, but I do think it's a fair concern. a lot of posters have shared the good advice of going intuitively about this Match process. and for some of us, part of fit includes making sure we'd feel comfortable. I've been honestly dismayed by the residency profiles I've seen on several program sites. I understand several groups are already underrepresented in medicine as a whole, so I wonder, where do these psych applicants (of color) end up going?? :)
I'm not entirely sure what you mean - are you looking for a residency program that has a lot of people of a particular ethnic group? If that's the case, then you might want to look at programs that are near the associated ethnic enclave.

My impression is that most candidates and programs are essentially color-blind, so I wouldn't expect much variation from place to place. I don't think that underrepresented groups "end up going" to any particular places... they're mostly spread evenly throughout the country, just like everybody else.
 
I called ERAS to double check about a DO-specific question. If you only took COMLEX, they confirmed that there is nothing you need to do with the USMLE tab. So, fyi.

While I was on the phone, I also asked when ERAS opens for submissions this weekend. The lady said 9:00 am Eastern Time, fyi again.
 
My impression is that most candidates and programs are essentially color-blind, so I wouldn't expect much variation from place to place. I don't think that underrepresented groups "end up going" to any particular places... they're mostly spread evenly throughout the country, just like everybody else.

In my experience at 2 different university programs, I would say that programs tend to be blind (i.e., in their selection) to certain factors that would clearly enhance the diversity at the program, e.g., there are very few evangelical Christians at programs of any kind, especially in fields like psychiatry and obstetrics/gynecology. However, in selection they are most definitely not color blind. You get a huge bump for being an African American graduate of a U.S. allopathic school, and a ginormous bump for being Native American Indian.
 
Good luck today everyone and props for setting up the interview thread already- good thing we did it early as we all seem a little geographically challenged!
 
Top