I agree with this and wish there was a fair way to limit the number of applications per candidate.
2013-2014 APPIC (internship) interview thread
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I agree with this and wish there was a fair way to limit the number of applications per candidate.
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Don't know if anyone has responded to this or not. If so, my apologies.
I emailed to TD to get the same information for travel planning purposes. She said that she was not sure and that it depended on the number of applicants that would be interviewed on that day. Her best guess is that the day will conclude in the mid- to late afternoon, and recommended that I plan accordingly (evening flights out of Rochester, which don't exist back to the west coast).
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I just want to point out that I think most students don't apply to anyplace they wouldn't genuinely want to be at. I don't assume programs ranking me low do so because they don't think I'm wonderful, just like I'll think every site on my list is wonderful, or I wouldn't rank them. Applying widely does not equal applying randomly. (This is not to say I disagree with the rest of your point, which I think is accurate. I don't know the solution. But it always bothers me when people assume that applicants who apply widely, or within a set geographical location, etc., are applying randomly as a result. There are a lot of great programs out there!)
What if the tie is between two programs in the same place? 😉
I am lucky to have a lot of good choices. Unfortunately, it also means that keeping a list in my head gets harder and harder. I like places so much more when I see them, even my clear last place. It's a good problem to have, but right now I know my current #1, am flip-flopping on 2 & 3, 4 & 5, etc... and I still have interviews coming up, including with 2 I expect to be in my top 3!
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I find this process to be exhausting, fun, and exciting! Anyone else feeling the same? I recently had to reschedule flights, car rentals, hotels, interview schedules due to weather but it all worked out. However, I am now in a position where I am unable to attend an open house I originally wanted to go to. But that's ok. How's everyone else doing? I have four more interviews to go and I will be done by the 16th. I kinda want this part to be over with, I am really exhausted lol.
Agreed. And I think the whole reason that # of apps has gone up is because of the imbalance of positions vs. applicants. If there weren't such an imbalance, people would presumably feel much safer applying to a smaller number of sites. As it is, we have to apply to a large number of sites to give ourselves a better chance of matching.
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There have been comments about this before on this message board, but in general it doesn't really work that way. The APPIC data on the relationship between the number of applications and the number of interviews received are clear. After 15 applications the odds of matching do not go up significantly. In general applying to more sites is a waste of money and increases the burden on all parties involved. I have seen multiple responses to this point that basically boil down to: "the statistics don't apply to my situation because of X, Y, and Z." I am certain that is true for a relatively small number of applicants in this process, but you better have a pretty good reason to argue that case because most of us are going to fall right in the middle of that normal distribution. For most of us, that statistic does apply. This is not Lake Wobegon and we are not all above average drivers
That being said, I do understand how anxiety provoking this process is. We all want to take as much action as humanly possible to make sure we make it through. Unfortunately, a lot of this is out of our control and we can only do so much!
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There have been comments about this before on this message board, but in general it doesn't really work that way. The APPIC data on the relationship between the number of applications and the number of interviews received are clear. After 15 applications the odds of matching do not go up significantly. In general applying to more sites is a waste of money and increases the burden on all parties involved. I have seen multiple responses to this point that basically boil down to: "the statistics don't apply to my situation because of X, Y, and Z." I am certain that is true for a relatively small number of applicants in this process, but you better have a pretty good reason to argue that case because most of us are going to fall right in the middle of that normal distribution. For most of us, that statistic does apply. This is not Lake Wobegon and we are not all above average drivers
That being said, I do understand how anxiety provoking this process is. We all want to take as much action as humanly possible to make sure we make it through. Unfortunately, a lot of this is out of our control and we can only do so much!
Well, in all fairness there are a lot of confounds with that statistic. For instance, it is quite possible that applicants who are less qualified (and thus less likely to match) apply to way more sites, skewing that number. In fact, last year there WAS a slightly increased chance of matching for people who applied to more sites.
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I am not so sure about fun, but exhausting and exciting, yes, I an relate to those.
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Has anyone already attended an interview to University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio?
I am unable to go for an in-person interview at the site and am scheduling a phone/skype interview. I am just curious of what I would be missing out on because it's definitely a site I have very high interest in.
I am unable to go for an in-person interview at the site and am scheduling a phone/skype interview. I am just curious of what I would be missing out on because it's definitely a site I have very high interest in.
What could be a valuable statistic is this: From a list of your applications ranked by preference, how many interviews did you receive in the top 15---and how many beyond that. It would also be interesting to know where actual matches occurred if application sites were ranked.
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I went to an interview in which someone stated that there is a list of the top health psychology VA training programs. I was wondering: does anyone have that list/know where that list is?
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I'd be in favor of an upper limit on the number of applications per applicant for no other reason than it'd then take the pressure off folks to feel the need to apply to a large number of sites just because, in effect, "everyone else is doing it."
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I will call myself out and say that I applied to 3 of my sites because I felt like I "needed" to apply to a certain number if I wanted to match. They weren't terrible fits, but were less competitive and were at the bottom of my list. One of them interviewed me, and I did not rank them after visiting. The other two did not interview me. In all three cases, I felt like I had wasted my money and their time. In the one case, I also felt that I had wasted an interview slot that could have gone to someone who was genuinely interested in the program.
I'm sure that many applicants who apply to a lot of sites do so simply because they are interested in a lot of sites. However, I know with certainty that there are applicants who apply widely out of fear. I don't think there's a fair way to impose an upper limit, unfortunately, but I agree that doing so would relieve a lot of the pressure on applicants as well as sites.
Upper limit = 800 no fee applications....
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Safe travels to everyone!
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ahh! I remember reading an article about ranking stats for PROGRAMS, not for applicants. I.e., what % of sites get their top-ranked applicant, etc. Did anyone on this thread post it? I can't for the life of me find it anymore.
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I don't know about an article, but the APPIC survey results do list some info for programs (e.g., avg. # of applicants ranked per spot).
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Yeah, it's in the APPIC 2013 Phase 1 data:
http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/MatchStatistics2013PhaseI.aspx
http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/MatchStatistics2013PhaseI.aspx
Haven't been home since December 21st (though admittedly that was because I went to visit family for the holidays). Was gone the 2 weekends prior to that. Finally go home again on Monday, but it is only for three nights, then back on the road. Will be nice though, given I haven't seen my wife yet this year! I have been in 7 different cities so far, with several more to go (and a couple repeat visits mixed in).
All that said - I've honestly found the process rather enjoyable. Got to meet lots of interesting people, see lots of cool places, learn about how tons of different hospitals/clinics are set up, talk with leaders in the field about what kind of research they have going on and what kind of opportunities I have available to me. The VAST majority of my interviews have been relatively low-stress and the couple that were probably signaled that its not a good fit anyways. Most internship site have been incredibly laid back, interviewers have been extremely nice and complimentary. I'll be glad when I'm done with this process but with 7 sites down and 5 more to go, I can honestly say it has not been nearly as bad as I imagined going into it.
All that said - I've honestly found the process rather enjoyable. Got to meet lots of interesting people, see lots of cool places, learn about how tons of different hospitals/clinics are set up, talk with leaders in the field about what kind of research they have going on and what kind of opportunities I have available to me. The VAST majority of my interviews have been relatively low-stress and the couple that were probably signaled that its not a good fit anyways. Most internship site have been incredibly laid back, interviewers have been extremely nice and complimentary. I'll be glad when I'm done with this process but with 7 sites down and 5 more to go, I can honestly say it has not been nearly as bad as I imagined going into it.
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Are you saying that the couple places that were NOT low stress signaled that they were not a good fit for you just because they were more difficult, or do you mean that the interviewers realized the fit was poor so they were grilling you harder to see why you applied? I hope that made sense!
I wouldn't say I was grilled at any of them - that's a bit much. Some folks I could have ended up working with were clearly just a bit more antagonistic/adversarial during the interview process and generally less pleasant/had colder personalities - whether this is a function of my background, their background, or something else entirely I can't say based on just one interaction.
Either way, given there are so many places that aren't like that it just means that site is getting bumped down my rank list. Interviews go both ways - I assume an applicant who is cold, awkward and unfriendly during an interview would be ranked lower so a site that was cold, awkward and unfriendly can't expect to be topping anyone's list given the wealth of options out there. Conveniently, this has actually been positively correlated with how good they are on paper in my experiences (i.e. the powerhouse sites have also had the nicest people, while the unpleasant personalities have been at the academically weaker sites). Not what I was necessarily expecting, but it makes my life much easier its worked out that way!
Either way, given there are so many places that aren't like that it just means that site is getting bumped down my rank list. Interviews go both ways - I assume an applicant who is cold, awkward and unfriendly during an interview would be ranked lower so a site that was cold, awkward and unfriendly can't expect to be topping anyone's list given the wealth of options out there. Conveniently, this has actually been positively correlated with how good they are on paper in my experiences (i.e. the powerhouse sites have also had the nicest people, while the unpleasant personalities have been at the academically weaker sites). Not what I was necessarily expecting, but it makes my life much easier its worked out that way!
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I've found sites that show a lot of interest in me ("you would be a great fit" or "it's exciting to hear about your interests") shoot up my rankings over those that use a poker face throughout the process. Admittedly, this is a bit illogical because the poker face site could like me just as well but choose not to show it. Anyone have an idea why sites don't let on which candidates they really like in an effort to make a good connection? It's not violating Appic rules and seems to make sense in helping candidates and sites find the best fit.
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I actually find it a bit unnerving when it's so explicit (I had one interviewer tell me I had done "a really excellent job" and make several similar remarks during an interview). It makes me wonder if they're saying that to everyone or are really that pleased with me. I like the subtler ones (like an interviewer who seemed to be unaware she was murmuring "good, really good" as she made notes after each of my responses. I don't know. Maybe that's just me and my anxiety about accepting positive feedback. 😉
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Sorry, I know I asked this a little while ago (but I am extremely paranoid because they initially sent my invitation to my email address w/ a typo) - Phone interviews at Louis Stokes DVA? Anybody heard back.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
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That makes sense too but I have a hard time connecting with people where I'm supposed to talk for 5 minutes straight and the only response I get is, "okay ready for the next question?"
That leaves me without any sense of what type of people they are or how they would interact with me at work.
Maybe my complaint is more about just getting some feedback and making the interview process a dialogue rather than a monologue. I'm a pretty interpersonal person so if you're not giving me any material to interact with you, I'm left feeling pretty cold about it. I can't be the only one who has that experience and sites would do themselves a favor to create an inviting atmosphere.
That leaves me without any sense of what type of people they are or how they would interact with me at work.
Maybe my complaint is more about just getting some feedback and making the interview process a dialogue rather than a monologue. I'm a pretty interpersonal person so if you're not giving me any material to interact with you, I'm left feeling pretty cold about it. I can't be the only one who has that experience and sites would do themselves a favor to create an inviting atmosphere.
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Yeah, I definitely prefer the interviews that feel more like a conversation to the ones that feel like a Q&A session.
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Yes! They must know at some level we are interviewing them as well. If they are concerned about fit beyond a vita, they should be chatting it up with us.
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Seriously, this. I had 3 interviews in a row that were extremely laid back, we talked about everything, and I could really envision some of these people as my future supervisors. Then, my next interview was a very formal Q & A session, (with some questions where I was like huh?) followed by an "informal" session for me to ask them questions, but it didn't feel "informal", I just asked them basic questions like, "what are you looking for in an intern?" etc., whereas in the laid back interviews, I just asked questions based on what we had been discussing (e.g., "can you tell me a little more about X rotation"), or in one interview, we briefly discussed why the 49ers are the best team in the NFL. 🙂 My interview experiences have varied significantly, and I can't help but be drawn to the sites that were more laid back.
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From my experience, some of the sites pretty much outright state that they know we're qualified and that we'd do well on their internship (we wouldn't be interviewing if they didn't think that), so interviews focused more on getting to know us as people. I really liked that approach.
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So, here's a question for all y'all. How much 'work' are you getting done during this process? I have 3 interviews/week for 3 solid weeks -- followed by 2 interviews the following week with 6+ hours of travel in between the vast majority of them. While I had grand aspirations to do work while traveling or during 'down' days, I'm exhausted and find that my procrastination skills are in full-swing. For example, I've recently become obsessed with the selection of the US Figure Skating team (instead of my dissertation). 
Anyone else feeling this? How are you dealing with dissertation/research work during this process?
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We all need a mental break. I haven't gotten anything done either and I only have 2/week interviews for the entire month of January. I really thought I was going to get somewhere with my dissertation but none of that has happened. I feel like it's better for me to just focus on that starting February with a fresh mind.
So, here's a question for all y'all. How much 'work' are you getting done during this process? I have 3 interviews/week for 3 solid weeks -- followed by 2 interviews the following week with 6+ hours of travel in between the vast majority of them. While I had grand aspirations to do work while traveling or during 'down' days, I'm exhausted and find that my procrastination skills are in full-swing. For example, I've recently become obsessed with the selection of the US Figure Skating team (instead of my dissertation).
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So, here's a question for all y'all. How much 'work' are you getting done during this process? I have 3 interviews/week for 3 solid weeks -- followed by 2 interviews the following week with 6+ hours of travel in between the vast majority of them. While I had grand aspirations to do work while traveling or during 'down' days, I'm exhausted and find that my procrastination skills are in full-swing. For example, I've recently become obsessed with the selection of the US Figure Skating team (instead of my dissertation).
I have a similar interview schedule and any work on my dissertation has ground to a halt. I haven't touched it since late December. Two or three weeks off so that you can focus on interviewing and taking care of yourself is not going to set you too far back in the grand scheme of things. Sometimes, avoidance is a good coping strategy. I think this is one of those times. 😉
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I definitely am getting no work done (except keeping up with my testing report writing, which isn't really negotiable, given feedback deadlines). Then again, I expected to get no work done, and essentially planned for this month to be "off." I'm so exhausted after the interviews each day that I'm lucky if I get my laundry folded at night while I watch TV. 😉
I'm doing bits and pieces here and there, but am also using travel time to catch up with friends and explore cities I might be living in next year - which I would recommend. Also doing some networking and using the opportunity to meet with folks who are not affiliated with the internship but I might want to work with on post-doc or collaborate with down the road (e.g. those at other area hospitals). Scheduling extra "just for fun" pseudo-interviews among all this craziness is probably not for everyone, but I don't mind it🙂
As for the dissertation...yeah, that's definitely slowed. Having my RAs try and book as much as possible on the rare occasions I'm in town given they can't run sessions without me there.
As for the dissertation...yeah, that's definitely slowed. Having my RAs try and book as much as possible on the rare occasions I'm in town given they can't run sessions without me there.
I think sites vary on this for many reasons and even across interviewers. Some are more anxious about violating the rules, some are temperamentally more variable. Then there is the fact that the site may like MANY candidates, but can only fill a limited number of positions, and may not want to create false hopes or expectations either. The reality is that we can genuinely believe that a candidate is a "great fit" and convey this. Sites also know that the final ranking might mean you (or they) can be a great fit but still in the middle of the ranking list. So the enthusiasm on both sides can be understood as genuine. And it needs to be held in the context of reality of this peculiar process. And not over-interpreted either way. Let it be one element in your own sense of how the place fits with where you would like to be and work for a year. Then just rank your preferences and trust the peculiar process.
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Except part of being a good fit for me is interacting with the site in a genuine way. To some extent, they are withholding that piece for me. I'm going to rank a site lower if I have more questions marks about fit. Obviously they can choose to interview however they want but I suspect they will miss out on good candidates.
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two of my cohort members received emails post interview that they are still being considered for their internship site. one of my friend got an email from another site that they are no longer being considered. these are three different sites. how common is this? and, if we do not hear anything post interview about our status...do we assume that we are still being considered in their ranking? are sites supposed to inform applicants if they are no longer being considered post interview?
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I've had two sites tell me post interview that I am still being considered. But both of those sites made it clear from the beginning of the process that I should expect an email informing me of my status.
So I don't think it's very common but the site should be upfront about that kind of communication. Personally, I'd much rather know if I'm not going to be ranked so I can put my energy elsewhere.
Edit- so if you don't hear anything, and the site didn't say they were going to contact you, I'd take that as everything is okay.
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Thank you for your response. Yeah--I'd rather have them tell me so it doesn't screw up my rankings but I guess that's not the norm. 🙂
"I'd rather have them tell me so it doesn't screw up my rankings but I guess that's not the norm."
Important clarification here! My understanding is that including sites on your ranking list that did NOT rank you does not affect your chances at ALL to match to sites farther down on your list that did rank you. In theory, I could rank 500 sites that didn't even interview me before I ranked the first site where I interviewed, and that wouldn't screw up my likelihood of matching at any of the places I interviewed. This is why the APAGS workbook makes a deal about how if you rank the sites according to your actual preference and you don't match, you will know that you would not have matched had you ordered them differently.
According to NatMatch:
The algorithm starts with an attempt to place an applicant into the program that is most preferred on the applicant's list. If the applicant cannot be matched to this first choice program, an attempt is then made to place the applicant into the second choice program, and so on, until the applicant obtains a tentative match, or all the applicant's choices have been exhausted. An applicant can be tentatively matched to a program in this process if the program also ranks the applicant on its Rank Order List, and either: 1) the program has an unfilled position available for the applicant. In this case there is room in the program to make a tentative match between the applicant and program or 2) the program does not have an unfilled position, but the applicant is more preferred by the program to another applicant who is currently tentatively matched to the program. In this case the applicant who is the least preferred current match in the program is removed from the program to make room for a tentative match with the more preferred applicant. When an applicant is removed from a previous tentative match, an attempt is then made to re-match this applicant, starting from the top of this applicant's list.
Important clarification here! My understanding is that including sites on your ranking list that did NOT rank you does not affect your chances at ALL to match to sites farther down on your list that did rank you. In theory, I could rank 500 sites that didn't even interview me before I ranked the first site where I interviewed, and that wouldn't screw up my likelihood of matching at any of the places I interviewed. This is why the APAGS workbook makes a deal about how if you rank the sites according to your actual preference and you don't match, you will know that you would not have matched had you ordered them differently.
According to NatMatch:
The algorithm starts with an attempt to place an applicant into the program that is most preferred on the applicant's list. If the applicant cannot be matched to this first choice program, an attempt is then made to place the applicant into the second choice program, and so on, until the applicant obtains a tentative match, or all the applicant's choices have been exhausted. An applicant can be tentatively matched to a program in this process if the program also ranks the applicant on its Rank Order List, and either: 1) the program has an unfilled position available for the applicant. In this case there is room in the program to make a tentative match between the applicant and program or 2) the program does not have an unfilled position, but the applicant is more preferred by the program to another applicant who is currently tentatively matched to the program. In this case the applicant who is the least preferred current match in the program is removed from the program to make room for a tentative match with the more preferred applicant. When an applicant is removed from a previous tentative match, an attempt is then made to re-match this applicant, starting from the top of this applicant's list.
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Flying out to my first "blind" interviews (aka sites in states that I've never heard of and never been to). I'll be in the outskirts of Pittsburgh and in North Carolina this week. I am a bit nervous/excited about this! Anybody have any insight/advice? I didn't think I'd be this nervous..but I guess it's some last minute jitters and the fact that I have to leave my dog with my cousin for a week that's causing it. Hope some of you are there! I like to think some of you are since you've been so kind and supportive on this network!
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It's true that it doesn't impact your matching or not, but it's still nice to know so you don't get your hopes pinned entirely on this site.
At airport. So tired. Only 3/10 done and I'm already dead! Ahhh I hope we can make it through this! Lol I never really travelled so I never knew how exhausting this is! I guess it's a good problem to have though right- traveling all month! Lol hope all of your interviews are going well!!
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I am not familiar with that area, but good luck on your interviews! I am sure a lot of people have said this already, but just be yourself! 🙂 Being away from pets sucks, and that could definitely be adding to your jitters. I know for me, being away from my husband and two cats for so long has sucked, flying all over the country this month has not been fun, especially during the polar vortex, when most of my flights were delayed (but thankfully – none were cancelled!!), and I'm exhausted. However, putting all that aside, this process has been really exciting! I've been going to states I've never been to, and learning more about the sites I applied to. It is really exciting when you go to a site that you would have ranked somewhere in the middle of your list on paper, but come away from the interview thinking it might be your #1 site. You just never know what to expect, and that makes it exciting for me. 7 down, 4 to go!! 🙂
