Yes, but that was back in 2012 around spring. I recently posted a thread regarding my school list, though; from the advice I gained from that thread, I added 3 more schools to my list.
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2013-2014 Panic Thread
Started by SilverCat
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Yes, but that was back in 2012 around spring. I recently posted a thread regarding my school list, though; from the advice I gained from that thread, I added 3 more schools to my list.
Applied to 28 medical schools. Gpa of 3.98 mcat 30. Got 27 secondaries. 2 rejections preinterview, 3 holds preinterview, 1 telephone interview. Dead silence from the rest. Many ppl say 30-32 is average but I thought the avg mcat was more like 28? I'm really starting to lose it checking my email everytime I get a message hoping its from a school. Those who make the mcat can piss off for all I care just a bunch who feel empowered by administering a test that doesn't reflect the years of work, intelligence, and Passion. Hmm let's stick a bunch of premeds who have been strecthing themselves thin with academics and extracurricular activities in a room for 4 hours asking them extremely general information that they're going to relearn in medschool.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2012factstable17.pdf
The mean MCAT for applicants is ~28, whereas the mean MCAT for people who actually matriculate is ~31. Maybe this is the difference you are seeing?
Hey panic thread. Just got an interview with 3.2gpa and 31 mcat. I also applied late and was verified October 1. Letting you know there's hope.
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I know exactly how you feel, brah (3.97, 31) and I completely agree. Especially the segment I highlighted in bold. Unfortunately, from the schools' point of view, the MCAT is standardized and is the only "reliable" point by which they can compare applicants by (even though kids can pay thousands to prepare for the MCAT, while others have to self study while working, studying for classes to maintain our near perfect GPAs, etc.) At my undergrad institution (and I'm sure yours, too), getting a 3.95+ GPA is definitely an accomplishment. This process has been very frustrating. It's hard not to be bitter.
Weird. What are your ecs like?
I felt they were solid, though I only had 6. A lot of clinical related experiences: clinical research with direct patient contact, volunteering at a busy clinic, assisting a doctor perform a novel treatment for pain relief, etc. These experiences were all 150+ hours and were ongoing long-term commitments, nothing was superficial. On top of this I served as a teaching assistant for two upper level biology courses and held a part time job my junior and senior year.
Maybe someone screwed me over in a LOR? I really hope not :S.
Hmm. Yeah, I'm in a similar boat. TONS of silence and a handful of rejections. However, my GPA is way below yours. I can't help but feel like there's something wonky with either the schools you applied to... or a red flag somewhere in your application. I would have expected you to have a few interviews with your stats and experiences. You still have ~20 chances for an interview, though, so it could really just be part of the waiting game.
I wouldn't worry until January. However, I'm so stressed that I'm convinced I have grey hairs now... so ... I'm not a good person to give you that advice. 😕
Do you think your secondaries were good? Did you take time to proofread and think through them thoroughly?
Oh geez, I really hope not! You have to wonder though, because those are definitely solid ECs and your GPA would definitely make up for your MCAT being average-ish at a lot of schools. Eeeck, hang in there buddy, I really hope you get some good news soon!
yeah, things got real quiet, almost wonder if sdn is just really quiet this year....
For real.
My secondaries were definitely well thought out and written, in my opinion at least. I definitely proofread whatever I wrote several times and made sure they flowed nicely and that my answers were well developed. But then again, who knows. I'll probably give them a quick skim over (I have them saved on my computer) and see if there's any issues. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a typo or two, but surely that can't disqualify you from admissions. That would be draconian.
My school list may have been ambitious; of the 25, my MCAT (without looking at my GPA) was competitive at only 10-12 of them... With the other schools, my MCAT still fell within their 10th to 90th percentile range (but was mostly lower than their average by 1-4 points), and my GPA was higher than all of their average and median matriculant GPAs.
*Sorry for the double post, but I can't edit my last post
*Sorry for the double post, but I can't edit my last post
Yeah, maybe. I do think you'll still get some interviews. Apparently there's this whole "wave" theory on how II get sent out (first tier of applicants: 1st, second tier: 2nd etc. etc) I'm being informed of right now haha. Maybe you're priority score is one of the lower tiers but there's no way you're not going to get any- that'd be just strange!
Exactly thank you! Yeah getting a high gpa in my school is pretty hard, as Im sure is the case for you as well, as a matter of fact getting a high gpa in any recognized university is tough. I wish there was a way we as students who have taken the mcat and who can actually speak to its effectiveness can somehow work in getting this damn thing eliminated. I mean in our case it was only 4 hours, I really am going to feel for those who have to take the new version come 2015. What really ticks me off about the mcat is that most schools give it the same weight as our GPA (and some schools give it higher priority). I would like to ask all the schools adcoms this question: "What more closely resembles students ability to succeed in a high stress, fast paced, and little time environment that is medical school? Going to school for 4-6 years while balancing all our other personal commitments and non academic based responsibilities or a 4 hour exam?" I mean if anything it should definetly have a lower priority, and I am sorry for those who will say "Your just saying that cause you didn't get a good MCAT score" well no my mcat score is good compared to a large percentage of other test takers, and its just isn't an accurate reflection of our ability to succeed in medicine.
I agree that the MCAT should have a lower priority. Because of the high volume of applicants, however, I don't think it will ever be eliminated. It's an easy and treacherously convenient way for schools to cull down the number of applicants they will consider.
I've been thinking the same thing all day... That and the fact that most School Specific threads I follow have people reporting only December and January interviews at this point... 🙁
The reason the MCAT is so important is that it tests your ability to take a standardized exam. You're going to be taking standardized exams throughout medical school and beyond which are far more difficult than the MCAT. The schools you apply to need to know you can handle that test format.
My research advisor just forwarded me this, in case you need something more to panic about. (Keep in mind, however, that the number of available seats for medical students has also gone up a lot this year, but I suspect not as much).
http://www.internalmedicinenews.com...al&utm_campaign=Med school applications spike
http://www.internalmedicinenews.com...al&utm_campaign=Med school applications spike
Also, it shows a different way of learning. Some undergrad students have 3.8+ gpas from learning to "pass classes," and dont actually retain much long term, and may get a lower MCAT score. Others may only have a 3.4 gpa, but that isnt a good reflection of their actual knowledge and critical thinking skills. They might get a higher score. And before anyone gets upset, of course there are high gpa people who also have high MCAT scores, and also retain information very well.
The fact that a 31 is an 'average' MCAT score on SDN is kind of scary, lol 🙁
Standardized tests in general aren't efficient. They don't really gauge anything in my opinion. I had a similar beef with the SATs when I took them a while ago. I quote "Employing standardized achievement tests to ascertain educational quality is like measuring temperature with a tablespoon....Standardized achievement tests should be used to make the comparative interpretations that they were intended to provide. They should not be used to judge educational quality." http://www.ascd.org/publications/ed...-Tests-Don't-Measure-Educational-Quality.aspx
Yup, critical thinking (especially under timed pressure) is another big reason.
Another thing I forgot to mention is that different schools have different curricula and methods of grading. A 3.8 gpa may be easier to achieve at one school than another. But the MCAT is the same for everyone - it's an even playing field in which medical schools can see how much you really know.
There are pros and cons to putting such heavy emphasis on a standardized test score, assuming we could also standardize the circumstances of every applicant and the amount of effort put into studying for it, other variables like time available, outside commitments, way they think, access to resources to prepare, etc. x)
My MCAT score sucks, yet I've managed to do well in every pre-req/major/non-science class that allowed for short answer responses as opposed to multiple choice style, lol, so I think it shouldn't have as much weight as it does, but whatevss
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The MCAT is needed because there is so much variability in the difficulty of colleges and majors. I'm not arguing that the MCAT is a perfect way of leveling the playing field, but at least it's an attempt to do so. A 34 on the MCAT = a 34 on the MCAT. By contrast, a 3.7 from college X in aerospace engineering does NOT = a 3.7 from college Y in peace studies.
The only beef I have with the MCAT is that it is a reasoning test, and by reasoning, I mean test-taking skills. Why not create a difficult enough content based exam without millions of subtle hints and other tricks that still produces a nice bell curve? This test is completely biased towards people who are good at shortcuts. I did fine on the MCAT but the whole concept still annoys me. I just don't see the reason why the test can't be more straight forward
The MCAT is reasoning AND content. A pure reasoning test would be something like the LSAT.
Well, except that it's not a level playing field. It's a rather arbitrary system where knowing too much about a topic (say, genetics) can actually throw you, not to mention the industry of test-prep that has risen up around the MCAT which adds another SES selective element to the process. Students who cannot take time off to study for months are inherently disadvantaged relative to those who can, irrespective of their capabilities. The fact that the AAMC sells test prep materials (and not particularly cheap) makes the whole prospect reek of classicism.
Ha I stand corrected
I still disagree with how the test is structured, however. I much prefer the way the DAT is set up in terms of reasoning to content ratio
agree times a billion. however, i say the whole system is skewed this way. i've bought about 5 textbooks my entire college career, relied on the charity of friends to borrow, library reserves etc.
meh. it sucks, but schools will probably never control for the economically disadvantaged unless you're urm. (i'm not saying they shouldn't control for urm, i'm saying they should control for both)
I'm not saying there isn't skew, but I found there were multiple opportunities for this lily white girl to discuss my history with the schools. The trick I had to learn how to sell my past as a perk, not as an excuse (even if it was the causal variable for less than perfect performances). Oh, and finding schools that give a damn about such things. Also, not gonna lie, but being a URM entails a host of other difficulties up to and including a general sense among the public that there will be economic issues.
I am also an immigrant and VR was extremely frustrating due to the number of subtle cues that just don't register with me when reading at that speed. I certainly agree that mastery of content AND reasoning skills are equally important for success, but it's a little biased to put so much weight on a test that heavily skews towards reasoning skills. One can get lucky on test day and score way above or below your avg MCAT, but I have yet to meet someone who got "lucky" and got a 4.0 GPA or unlucky and got a 2.0. The point being raised often is that a 4.0 isn't standardized across schools, and I would have to agree. However, that is somewhat ameliorated by the fact that people will naturally bias a 4.0 from Harvard vs. a 4.0 from U of nowhere. A Harvard 4.0/36 candidate will most likely be chosen over a U of nowhere 4.0/36 so I don't really see how the MCAT is really helping that much in terms of "equalizing" the playing field. Same goes with schools that are notoriously difficult. A 3.5 from MIT engineering will not be looked down upon because everyone knows it's hard.
You're right on all of this- I too have been really happy that at least some schools really seem to care. Also, thank you for examining your privilege.
Being a "model minority" growing up in poverty in a violent home is a smidgen different and it also entails a host of other difficulties up to,.... I mean its kind of frustrating that some schools have probably looked at my uGPA and that I'm not an URM, and automatically rejected me even given the adversity I personally have overcome even as a "model minority". But the process has definitely made me appreciate the schools who care and convinced me that I don't want to be at a school that doesn't want that type of diversity/overcoming of adversity in their class anyway.
It all works out, I'm sure.
But in terms of the MCAT, I'd say we should all just suck it up and move on. Various others have pointed out, but the MCAT is a measure of intelligence- perhaps a certain type of intelligence, but intelligence nonetheless. And it is an equalizer. I'm sorry to those who didn't do as well as they would have liked, but ..... I mean...the USMLE etc...standardized tests... bulk of residency match decisions based on.... I meannnnnnn....its the process. Ya knew you were getting into it
Except a 4.0 from Harvard means little (in reality) because of horrendous grade inflation. 😀 For example, the number of A's given out has more than doubled in the last 20 years, and the AVERAGE GPA is somewhere around 3.5. Not to say that getting into Harvard isn't difficult, but it's notoriously easy once there.
If schools want to give people preference based on the name of their undergrad, fine... but it should be (and is) weighed with many other factors.
Truth, but you would think a profession informed by "science" would invest less faith in this arbitrary yard stick, or at least provide alternate avenues for applicants to demonstrate their skill (for serious, give me a data set and I will draft a paper). I will play their ballgame, but that doesn't mean I can't critique the rules and posit ways to improve them. Some day, when I am god emperor of medical schools...
Good point. We need minds invested in finding a better process.
Agree to disagree in general, though. I personally think that if folks are getting 3.7-4.0's, they should be able to back that up with a 95-98th percentile MCAT score. Because grade inflation/deflation does need standardizing and though folks don't seem to want to believe it, it does provide a basis for legitimizing "no-name" school's 4.0's. It works in the favor of those who went to smaller, less prestigious schools, if you let it. If someone can't get a score that matches their GPA, I think that's a reason for a school to pass their application up.
But like I said, my opinion.
VR and verbal reasoning in general is used to measure intelligence in many different contexts. NOT just medical school admissions. You can't study for VR and that's the point. VR and its purpose has been debated ad nauseam, I don't agree that its unfair and I never will, plenty of folks agree with me. You won't ever agree that its fair, and plenty of folks agree with you. Sooooooo....waste of time, yo.
Also....you need to be able to comprehend written English well enough to do well on the USMLE. So no its not tested directly, but it is tested indirectly.
I apologize in advance - this is going to be a seriously off-topic rant - but if this is the panic thread, I figure going off topic is more appropriate here than anywhere else.
Can I just say that the whole freaking process for getting into medical school is classist? It's not just the MCAT, although that's definitely a big part of it. It starts with the huge advantage that wealthy high school students have for getting into top tier colleges - they don't have to work, they can go on expensive study abroad/charity trips that selective colleges love, they can take college courses, etc. And even if the GPA from selective schools isn't counted as being more than the GPA from less selective ones, the resources that private, selective schools have for helping their students apply to medical school tend to be better - personalized attention, classes, pre-med internships, etc. I'm not even going to get into the interview process and how unfair of a burden spending that much money places on low income students, and how the joke of a fee assistance program covers an absolutely tiny portion of the cost of applying (ESPECIALLY if you're poor and from a rural area, where a good chunk of your expenses will be travel-related).
It kind of makes me angry when I hear medical schools talking about how they want people from all backgrounds. If that's the case, why aren't they doing anything to change the system and get rid of those barriers? Why is the median income of the families of medical students so high? They're doing some, I recognize that - programs, taking into account holistic applications, etc. - but it's not nearly enough.
[/rant] Apologies again. I've been stewing about this since the whole horrible process started. All that being said, life is unfair, all of society is classist, yadda yadda. Nothing I can do about it. (Yet.)
Yes, totally. But as medicine is a service field, being able to communicate is essential.
There will be people at a disadvantage no matter what the test. Its standardized for a reason. Tests the essentials, in an as impartial way as possible. I'm sorry it doesn't work out in your favor. However, CLEARLY admissions isn't just about numbers. I am direct evidence of this considering I had interviews at top tiers. And NOT a 4.0 GPA and 45 MCAT. Nowhere close.
It can and will be done despite the numbers- schools want to see that you have a clear dedication to medicine and will overlook a lower subscore if you give them a reason to. Hofstra likely did not reject you based on your MCAT score-- a 29 is not that low, an 8 is not that low and a 3.9 is high.
My opinion. Sorry if it comes across harsh
ermgawd. YES IT IS.
Yeah, no worries. Honestly, rejection is just a part of the process. Pop into the rejection thread and you'll see people with 9 or 10. (I have 3 but applied to less schools than most). The first one stings and then after that you slowly learn to say "if a stupid effing school doesn't want me, I don't want it either."
If you've got some decent ECs, wrote convincingly, you'll be fine with that GPA. If not this year, then next
I completely agree with this. It's ridiculous.
Side note: I know someone who is taking six months off of school to study for the MCAT. SIX MONTHS! WHAT THE WHAT?!?
Second that. Money, money, money for EVERYTHING. Medical school costs way too much in this country. My parents went to med school for a pittance. And my cousin over in England isn't paying much either.
The silence is as sharp as a knife, and boy, does it cut deep.
...This might be because I feel like I applied REALLY top heavy. I just looked over my list, and all of my schools are like top 30. 😵 Besides my state school. I'm lucky to have gotten two interviews, I guess, with that sort of list. In my defense, I don't actually have a pre-med advisor that's any help at all. I was on my own with all of this.
...This might be because I feel like I applied REALLY top heavy. I just looked over my list, and all of my schools are like top 30. 😵 Besides my state school. I'm lucky to have gotten two interviews, I guess, with that sort of list. In my defense, I don't actually have a pre-med advisor that's any help at all. I was on my own with all of this.
Totally utterly agree. I also had 2 interviews and feel really lucky. I don't know why I thought it was a good idea to apply to so many big name schools 😕 ... no pre-med advisor or committee here either... haha I chose most of my schools off of SDN recommendations.
That's excessive.
It does appear the Hofstra weighs the MCAT heavily when screening for IIs. I have a rather poor GPA (most of those talking about Hofstra rejections recently have much, much higher GPAs than I do) but I do have an extremely high MCAT (no prep class and studied weekends during a 16 credit semester and 17 hr/week part-time job, regarding the classist MCAT discussion). I managed to snag an OOS II at Hofstra despite thinking for sure I had burned my secondary fee as an OOS applicant with a below average GPA. Then again, a 10th %ile MCAT of 30 for a school that small/new is incredibly high. Cooper, also new and small with a similar approach to third year, has a 10th %ile MCAT in the mid-20's if I'm not mistaken.
But Hofstra is just one school, so who cares?
Despite my MCAT getting me a couple interviews this cycle, I still think GPA is a better predictor of success in medical school. (And apparently the majority of schools I applied to this cycle agree, as I've heard nothing from them!) Being able to demonstrate consistent commitment to your coursework can't be underrated. My grades sucked for years and all I had to do was take one 5-hour test to prove myself? I don't think that's fair.
But I also think anyone* can succeed on the MCAT even if they are broke (as I was/am, see above) if they study the right way while they take their pre-reqs in the first place.
* provided they grew up speaking English.
But Hofstra is just one school, so who cares?
Despite my MCAT getting me a couple interviews this cycle, I still think GPA is a better predictor of success in medical school. (And apparently the majority of schools I applied to this cycle agree, as I've heard nothing from them!) Being able to demonstrate consistent commitment to your coursework can't be underrated. My grades sucked for years and all I had to do was take one 5-hour test to prove myself? I don't think that's fair.
But I also think anyone* can succeed on the MCAT even if they are broke (as I was/am, see above) if they study the right way while they take their pre-reqs in the first place.
* provided they grew up speaking English.
