2013 Postdoc Applicants

[Milk Milk Milk]

INTERVIEWS

Neuro
PED/CHILD NS:
Baylor/Texas Children's - INS
Children's Medical Center Dallas
Children's National - INS
Cincinnati Children's - INS
Dallas Children's - INS
Kennedy Krieger - INS
Medical College of Wisconsin - INS
Nationwide - INS

ADULT NS:
Barrow Neurological Institute - (personalized email) at INS or on site
Barrow -- adult neurorehabilitation track ("Track 2"), on site, via personalized email
Boston VA- group email with INS or on-site option
Brooke Army Medical Center -- adult neuro, call
Cambridge Health Alliance- phone call invite with on-site interview
Cambridge Mass
Cleveland Clinic (INS)
Harvard Partners (MGH/Brigham)- personalized email invite w/ on site interview
Indiana University School of Medicine- Adult - (group email) on site or via telephone
John Hopkins- email invite w/ on-site interview
JFK Johnson rehab institute (personalized email, on site)
Kaiser Permanente - Roseville
Kansas University School of Medicine Wichita - INS, personalized email
Mayo Rochester
Mayo Jax
Medical College of Georgia - INS, personalized email[
Med College of Wisconsin - Adult - (group email) on site or via Skype
Milwaukee VA -- adult neuro, INS, via personalized email
Nebraska Medical Center -- adult neuro, INS, via personalized email
Northwestern- personalized email invite w/ on-site interview
Palo Alto VA (INS)
Rush- group email with INS or on-site option
Tampa VA - phone
UC Davis (INS)
UCLA
University of Florida: notification via email; applicant choice for interview
University of illinois college of medicine- ins and phone interview
University of Iowa - INS, personalized email
UMass Medical Center- personalized email with on-site interview
U of Michigan (INS)
University of New Mexico Health Science Center Adult - (personalized email) at INS
UPMC Sports Neuropsychology
VA Connecticut- West Haven, personalized email, on site applicant chooses date or phone

Non-Neuro
ADULT NON-NS
Barnes-Jewish Hospital/Wash U- phone invite on 1/21 for phone pre-interview screening
Bedford VA - general mental health, LGBTQ, Primary Care
Boston College
Boston VA
Brown/Providence VA
Central Arkansas VA- email 12/31
Cleveland Clinic- personalized e-mail invite on 1/18 for in-person interview
Cleveland VA
Colorado Health Foundation
Geisinger Medical Center
Harbor-UCLA
Hill Center for Women Program
Houston VA
Kaiser Oakland - Eating Disorders track, phone call
Kaiser Pleasanton - Adult Phone call
Kaiser Santa Rosa - Adult Phone call w/ formal email invite
Kaiser South Bay Consortium - phone call
Kansas City VA
Loma Linda - via email
Loyola University CC
Maine VA
Mayo-Rochester, Adult Health/Bmed called with interview offer
Minneapolis VA, Adult Primary care/mental health integration called with interview offer
NYU counseling
Pittsburgh VA
Rancho Los Amigos
Reed College's CC
Salem VA
Salt Lake City VA
San Diego VA
Seattle VA
Stanford CAPS
Tufts University counseling center
UC Berkeley CAPS
University of Delaware
University of Georgia CC
University of Kansas Medical Center- phone invite on 1/4 for in-person interview
University of Rochester CC
Washington DC VA
West Haven VA - phone call back in Dec
West Los Angeles VA
White River Junction VA


PED/CHILD NON-NS
Boston's Children's Hospital
Children's Hospital Colorado-- personalized email
Children's Medical Center-- personalized email
Children's Hospital of Wisconsin
Columbia University Medical Center
Geisinger Medical Center
JRI trauma center in Boston
McLean Hospital's Adolescent ART Program and
Texas Children's Hospital-- personalized email
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences

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[KillerDiller]

I've only just barely started to look at sites. I can't seem to make myself sit down and devote time to it. It's probably because I only have a couple months of internship under my belt. Sigh, but I know I'm going to have to make it happen soon.

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

Same! Looking for postdocs is definitely an after-the-internship-day kind of activity. I just couldn't believe when I was asked last month if I'd be applying for postdocs and/or jobs? And if so, which kinds and did I know where? I feel like I just got on internship! Colleagues had told me about the speed with which this next part begins but to hear about it is one thing, to live it is another...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I went through the process last year, and can definitely empathize with just how quickly you're expected to start thinking about postdocs/jobs. It's definitely assumed that you're going to hit the ground running.

I was dealing with a double-whammy at the time, as I also had to work on finishing my dissertation. And since the neuro match occurs a solid month before the match for non-neuro sites, our internship supervisors were discussing applications literally from day one (i.e., orientation).

Even though it's overwhelming, it really does behoove you to start preparing now. There generally aren't any essays/personal statements to have to worry about, but because of that, the cover letters are much more important (and, accordingly, can take longer to write/revise). Beyond that, because the process is less-centralized than for internship, just finding sites with spots, and organizing everything so you'll know who requires what and when takes a good bit more energy.

My personal recommendations would be:

1) Start forming ideas now about which internship supervisor(s) you want writing you letters of rec, and let them (and anyone from your grad program) know now.

2) Create some kind of spreadsheet or database to help yourself keep track of important information (e.g., sites you're eyeing, materials required, how materials are to be sent--by mail or email, directly from letter writers or all sent by you as a single packet--and when they're due, when/where interviews occur, etc.).

3) Start looking now for sites to which you'd like to apply. Most neuro due dates don't hit until December/January, and non-neuro may not even come along until February, but as I mentioned above, just finding the positions to begin with can be tough. Given that it's October, many sites will probably have an idea now or in the near future if they'll be taking applications; if they don't, I'd imagine they should be around November/December at the latest. However, some positions are offered on a rolling basis, so the earlier you can find and apply to those, the better.

4) Just work at it consistently to keep everything manageable. I probably spent an hour or two per day, two to four days per week, for two or so months getting things together. It shouldn't take much more of an investment than that if you keep at it with some semblance of regularity.

5) Start saving money and personal leave now in anticipation of interviews, just in case they aren't centralized (e.g., most neuro sites interview at INS, but I still flew/drove to three on-site open houses in very disparate parts of the country).

6) For jobs, particularly VA jobs, expect that it could take 2-3 months before you even hear about whether your application is under consideration, and possibly another month or so after that before interviews are brought up. Thus, applying in December/January if you're finishing up internship in July wouldn't be excessively early. And if you have an idea where you might end up, start looking into that state's licensing requirements; you might be able to have your internship TD fill out some paperwork while you're still on site and/or you can start compiling any materials the licensing board might require (e.g., tracking hours, transcripts, syllabi from grad school classes).

 

[psyunknown]

Yesterday I was on the PICC website (positions in college counseling) and saw that centers are starting to post their post doc positions and I felt a wave of anxiety as I realized I have not touched my CV since the internship process, have no idea who I want to write letters, or where I want to apply.

 

[psychRA]

I can't believe it's already time to go through this process again. I feel kinda ill just thinking about it.

Supervisors on internship all seem completely sure that everything will work out for everyone in our cohort, which is somewhat confusing. I mean, given that most people (who aren't on the academic market right away) will go on to do a postdoc after internship, aren't we essentially competing against the same pool of applicants again? Shouldn't we be just as stressed as we were last year? Our TD in particular has given the impression that we can pretty much pick a few places where we want to apply, and then we'll end up at our first or second choice. I'm at a strong internship site, and I'm trying to share this same optimism, but it's hard to wrap my head around the idea that everything is just going to fall into place for postdoc.

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

I went through the process last year, and can definitely empathize with just how quickly you're expected to start thinking about postdocs/jobs. It's definitely assumed that you're going to hit the ground running.

I was dealing with a double-whammy at the time, as I also had to work on finishing my dissertation. And since the neuro match occurs a solid month before the match for non-neuro sites, our internship supervisors were discussing applications literally from day one (i.e., orientation).

Even though it's overwhelming, it really does behoove you to start preparing now. There generally aren't any essays/personal statements to have to worry about, but because of that, the cover letters are much more important (and, accordingly, can take longer to write/revise). Beyond that, because the process is less-centralized than for internship, just finding sites with spots, and organizing everything so you'll know who requires what and when takes a good bit more energy.

My personal recommendations would be:

1) Start forming ideas now about which internship supervisor(s) you want writing you letters of rec, and let them (and anyone from your grad program) know now.

2) Create some kind of spreadsheet or database to help yourself keep track of important information (e.g., sites you're eyeing, materials required, how materials are to be sent--by mail or email, directly from letter writers or all sent by you as a single packet--and when they're due, when/where interviews occur, etc.).

3) Start looking now for sites to which you'd like to apply. Most neuro due dates don't hit until December/January, and non-neuro may not even come along until February, but as I mentioned above, just finding the positions to begin with can be tough. Given that it's October, many sites will probably have an idea now or in the near future if they'll be taking applications; if they don't, I'd imagine they should be around November/December at the latest. However, some positions are offered on a rolling basis, so the earlier you can find and apply to those, the better.

4) Just work at it consistently to keep everything manageable. I probably spent an hour or two per day, two to four days per week, for two or so months getting things together. It shouldn't take much more of an investment than that if you keep at it with some semblance of regularity.

5) Start saving money and personal leave now in anticipation of interviews, just in case they aren't centralized (e.g., most neuro sites interview at INS, but I still flew/drove to three on-site open houses in very disparate parts of the country).

6) For jobs, particularly VA jobs, expect that it could take 2-3 months before you even hear about whether your application is under consideration, and possibly another month or so after that before interviews are brought up. Thus, applying in December/January if you're finishing up internship in July wouldn't be excessively early. And if you have an idea where you might end up, start looking into that state's licensing requirements; you might be able to have your internship TD fill out some paperwork while you're still on site and/or you can start compiling any materials the licensing board might require (e.g., tracking hours, transcripts, syllabi from grad school classes).

Thank you for this information! I think you're spot-on with how to manage this process - bit by bit every day. Like you on internship, I am still working on my dissertation so it certainly feels like a tremendous amount of work between my internship duties, dissertation, and now postdoc applications. And the postdoc listings are appearing on listservs more frequently now and it's time to start shaping up, for sure. A lot of the spots have rolling applications and urge applicants to get their materials in ASAP. In many ways this feels more stressful than the internship process.

I also saw on APPIC that they are doing away with the UND this year. A good and a bad thing.

And thanks for the tip re: licensing requirements. That's great advice!

 

[KillerDiller]

Thank you for this information! I think you're spot-on with how to manage this process - bit by bit every day.

Just curious, does your user name come from the cognitive diffusion exercise used in ACT?

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

Just curious, does your user name come from the cognitive diffusion exercise used in ACT?

Yes, it refers to cognitive defusion a la ACT. How come?

 

[KillerDiller]

Yes, it refers to cognitive defusion a la ACT. How come?

There was no deeper reason for my question. I was just curious because your name could refer to the exercise, or you could just really like milk.

Also, I thought both diffusion and defusion were acceptable (no pun intended).

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

There was no deeper reason for my question. I was just curious because your name could refer to the exercise, or you could just really like milk.

Also, I thought both diffusion and defusion were acceptable (no pun intended).

It's a reference to the exercise though I do love me some dairy

ACT uses defusion. The aim is to de-fuse your internal, private events - see thoughts as thoughts, feelings as feelings, memories as memories, etc. and thus weaken/break the ontological cause we, as humans inately attribute them to be. Easy peasy, right?

 

[erg923]

It's a reference to the exercise though I do love me some dairy

ACT uses defusion. The aim is to de-fuse your internal, private events - see thoughts as thoughts, feelings as feelings, memories as memories, etc. and thus weaken/break the ontological cause we, as humans inately attribute them to be. Easy peasy, right?

I've always loved the idea, but frankly, the most of the normal population is "fused"...

I am, and im sure most of us here are as well.

 

[KillerDiller]

ACT uses defusion. The aim is to de-fuse your internal, private events - see thoughts as thoughts, feelings as feelings, memories as memories, etc. and thus weaken/break the ontological cause we, as humans inately attribute them to be. Easy peasy, right?

I'm an ACT person myself. I just feel like I've seen it called cognitive diffusion as well as cognitive defusion. I could be wrong, I haven't exactly been keeping tally marks. I feel like diffusion still gets the same concept across, though--things that are highly concentrated in the center of one's POV become diffuse by gaining distance from the thoughts.

 

[KillerDiller]

I've always loved the idea, but frankly, the most of the normal population is "fused"...

I am, and im sure most of us here are as well.

I think being de-fused to every thought is simply theoretical, it's not the goal nor the expectation. The exercises are helpful for defusing particularly troubling thoughts, though.

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

I think being de-fused to every thought is simply theoretical, it's not the goal nor the expectation. The exercises are helpful for defusing particularly troubling thoughts, though.

I could go down the relational frames discussion path right now but I will stop myself. My mind is giving me the thought that RFs would bore y'all. Very few people can defuse from all content (and some question, who would want to) so the goal is, as you said, to loosen up some of those particularly hooking internal events.

KillerDiller - what/who do you primarily use ACT with?

 

[KillerDiller]

KillerDiller - what/who do you primarily use ACT with?

I've found it most useful with anxiety disorders, and have used it with college students and veterans. Honestly, though, I think ACT is great for pretty much any presenting issue I've seen. I really like it; I think it fits well with other techniques--motivational interviewing, behavioral activation, exposure, etc. This year I'm learning how to apply it to treating eating disorders in a hospital setting.

What about you?

 

[serotonin]

Supervisors on internship all seem completely sure that everything will work out for everyone in our cohort, which is somewhat confusing. I mean, given that most people (who aren't on the academic market right away) will go on to do a postdoc after internship, aren't we essentially competing against the same pool of applicants again? Shouldn't we be just as stressed as we were last year? Our TD in particular has given the impression that we can pretty much pick a few places where we want to apply, and then we'll end up at our first or second choice. I'm at a strong internship site, and I'm trying to share this same optimism, but it's hard to wrap my head around the idea that everything is just going to fall into place for postdoc.

are we the same person? I'm in the exact same boat, also with supervisors telling my internship cohort we will likely get our 1st or 2nd choice. I also don't understand how this ends up working out. And for most of the postdoc sites I will applying to, there are fewer postdoc slots than internship slots. Confusing.

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

I've found it most useful with anxiety disorders, and have used it with college students and veterans. Honestly, though, I think ACT is great for pretty much any presenting issue I've seen. I really like it; I think it fits well with other techniques--motivational interviewing, behavioral activation, exposure, etc. This year I'm learning how to apply it to treating eating disorders in a hospital setting.

What about you?

I conceptualize and treat from a functional contextualism perspective so I would like to say that I use with any/all but that is not always...ahem...supported.

And yes, I am equally stymied with the Supervisors Zeitgeist that postdoc "will all work out."

 

[AcronymAllergy]

are we the same person? I'm in the exact same boat, also with supervisors telling my internship cohort we will likely get our 1st or 2nd choice. I also don't understand how this ends up working out. And for most of the postdoc sites I will applying to, there are fewer postdoc slots than internship slots. Confusing.

I actually wonder if it's accurate that "most" interns will go on to a formal postdoc. Having gone through the process myself last year, I can say with certainty that in my case, it didn't feel like there was nearly as much of a crunch numbers-wise with respect to the number of positions vs. the number of applicants (and this was for neuro, which according to the stats has a match rate of ~60%). I and all of the other applicants in my internship cohort ended up at one of our top choices (i.e., first or second). We all also felt that the sites to which we applied spent much more time and energy attempting to foster our interest in them rather than the other way around.

I'd imagine that if it's not a majority, then a significant minority of individuals go on directly into practice, which likely takes a huge amount of strain off the postdoc system. Additionally, there are some folks who have to take some time off in order to finish graduation requirements (read: dissertation), and likely others who opt to start/spend time with their families rather than going the postdoc route.

That being said, part of my experience might've been due to my lack of geographical restriction; by applying to a number of sites, that likely lessened the strain on me. If I were to have limited myself, depending on the state (e.g., California, NY, Mass.), I could see things having been much more difficult.

 

[erg923]

I actually wonder if it's accurate that "most" interns will go on to a formal postdoc. Having gone through the process myself last year, I can say with certainty that in my case, it didn't feel like there was nearly as much of a crunch numbers-wise with respect to the number of positions vs. the number of applicants (and this was for neuro, which according to the stats has a match rate of ~60%). I and all of the other applicants in my internship cohort ended up at one of our top choices (i.e., first or second). We all also felt that the sites to which we applied spent much more time and energy attempting to foster our interest in them rather than the other way around.

I'd imagine that if it's not a majority, then a significant minority of individuals go on directly into practice, which likely takes a huge amount of strain off the postdoc system. Additionally, there are some folks who have to take some time off in order to finish graduation requirements (read: dissertation), and likely others who opt to start/spend time with their families rather than going the postdoc route.

That being said, part of my experience might've been due to my lack of geographical restriction; by applying to a number of sites, that likely lessened the strain on me. If I were to have limited myself, depending on the state (e.g., California, NY, Mass.), I could see things having been much more difficult.

I did not apply to any "post-doc" training positions last year. However, my sense from those in my grad program who did was that it was a little bit more difficult than they expected. Also, there were 2 other predocs with me last year, and none of us went to post-docs. I'm faculty at a small school, one is staff at a college CC, the other went into a PP (practicing under her masters) while she finishes her dissertation.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I did not apply to any "post-doc" training positions last year. However, my sense from those in my grad program who did was that it was a little bit more difficult than they expected. Also, there were 2 other predocs with me last year, and none of us went to post-docs. I'm faculty at a small school, one is staff at a college CC, the other went into a PP (practicing under her masters) while she finishes her dissertation.

I'd heard that from others as well, which is actually what led me to apply to probably twice as many sites as I might have otherwise.

I definitely didn't mean to make light of the postdoc application process, though, nor to in any way imply that it was easy. But I would say that for me, once the initial peak of anxiety crested right as I began applying, the entire process (as a whole) was much more enjoyable than was the internship cycle. Part of that might've been due to the fact that a postdoc isn't/wasn't an absolute necessity, at least in terms of graduating.

Congrats again on the faculty position, btw, erg. Sounds like you're enjoying things there, and that it's worked out well thus far.

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

For those of us applying to postdocs it's time to get accountable!

I've got 15 spots. LoR requested, transcripts ordered, it's the "letters of interest" that I cannot force myself to write. Flashbacks of APPI prevent me...where is everyone else in this process?

 

[Member888]

Hi everyone. Quick question. I'm debating requesting 1 LOR from my doctoral advisor (who supervised clinical and research work) and 2 from my predoc supervisor/TD. Alternatively, I'm wondering if I should instead request 2 LOR from my doc program - advisor and TD (who also supervised clinical and research work) and 1 from my predoc supervisor/TD. What do others recommend? I'll be applying to child clinical post-docs, both formal and informal.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Hi everyone. Quick question. I'm debating requesting 1 LOR from my doctoral advisor (who supervised clinical and research work) and 2 from my predoc supervisor/TD. Alternatively, I'm wondering if I should instead request 2 LOR from my doc program - advisor and TD (who also supervised clinical and research work) and 1 from my predoc supervisor/TD. What do others recommend? I'll be applying to child clinical post-docs, both formal and informal.

I can only mention what I did, was to have two from my doctoral program (my advisor and another supervisor) and one from my internship TD.

I'll say that if you have NO letters from your internship or doctoral program, that'd certainly be a red flag. But as to whether you should have 2 from internship and 1 from your doc program, or 2 from your dog program and 1 from internship, I say just go with whoever you think can write you the strongest letter for the programs you're looking at.

Worst-case, you can request all four and then send out as appropriate.

 

[2012PhD]

I can only mention what I did, was to have two from my doctoral program (my advisor and another supervisor) and one from my internship TD.

I'll say that if you have NO letters from your internship or doctoral program, that'd certainly be a red flag. But as to whether you should have 2 from internship and 1 from your doc program, or 2 from your dog program and 1 from internship, I say just go with whoever you think can write you the strongest letter for the programs you're looking at.

Worst-case, you can request all four and then send out as appropriate.

I hope someone can pitch in on this one. I'm applying to post-docs that emphasize clinical work. What do people think about getting 3 letters from primary clinical supervisors, including my internship director, and leaving out my program since I want strong ones that can talk about my clinical work? I don't think letters from my program will be as strong in the sense that I have not worked with faculty members in a while since and they have not supervised my clinical work. I'm in my 7th year so that is part of the problem so I have not been around my campus or taken courses in a while. I have done research in the past with faculty members, but not in recent years. I'd love to hear other thoughts!

 

[erg923]

Did you have a professor that was your main adviser/mentor, I assume? I would still get a letter from him or her, and then get two clinical ones. Just my opinion...

 

[2012PhD]

Did you have a professor that was your main adviser/mentor, I assume? I would still get a letter from him or her, and then get two clinical ones. Just my opinion...

Yeah, I do. Just haven't been in touch in a while. I will have to touch base and see what she says. She wrote me a letter for internship. Thanks.

On another note, to echo what others are saying, I matched at a competitive VA internship and the interns last year who applied for post-doc had a really rough time despite being assured that EVERYONE gets something. Many did not get formal post-docs they applied for and instead had to piece something together. I think it can work that way for some people but I think sometimes people took part-time positions without benefits. I think people were geographically limited to some extent.

I'm only applying to 8 sites because i have family obligations here and I want to settle in this location and network here. What is the # of sites that people generally recommend?? It seems like it may not be enough, but on the other hand, I can devote more time to having a quality CV and cover letters. I applied to many sites for internship and had to turn down interviews, but now i'm actually limited geographically. Also, I think if you take a post-doc in a state where you don't want to practice, it can be harder to get back to where you want to end up anyhow.

 

[2012PhD]

Right now the toughest part for me is getting over the frustration, anger, resentment, trauma, and sense of unfairness that I feel for having to do this process all over AGAIN. I started compiling a list of sites and saw that several want ESSAYS, comprehensive assessment reports, and transcripts, in addition to the usual requirements of a CV, cover letter, and 3 LOR. I also just realized that some sites have deadlines around December 1st. WTF???

These are sites that require an APA accredited internship, so I honestly feel like after weeding out most of the field and keeping the few that survived the internship process who are clearly well-trained, why do they want to keep making our life more difficult???? I have not met anyone who has completed an APA internship who is not well trained and very competent. Are these training directors sadistic? I kinda want to punch them in the face right now for requiring essays at this stage. I'm having a very strong reaction to the essays obviously. Most of us are working 50 hours per week on internship, writing dissertations, and have to find time to apply while managing all of this.

 

[erg923]

I have not met anyone who has completed an APA internship who is not well trained and very competent. Are these training directors sadistic? I kinda want to punch them in the face right now for requiring essays at this stage. I'm having a very strong reaction to the essays obviously. Most of us are working 50 hours per week on internship, writing dissertations, and have to find time to apply while managing all of this.

I cant really agree with the first sentence, but I do understand the rest. Especially the essays part. How bout, "because I want a job and paycheck!"

 

[2012PhD]

I cant really agree with the first sentence, but I do understand the rest. Especially the essays part. How bout, "because I want a job and paycheck!"

LOL. I do need to eat.

My friend is applying to jobs in the private sector and apparently all you have to do is apply through linkedin these days without even having to send a cover letter or resume (your resume is on linked in now). My back up if I don't get a post-doc/job in the clinical field is to apply to some high paying jobs in the private sector with my PhD. I think i'll be marketable. The good news is that everything is so much easier after making it through a clinical psychology program. I'm making myself feel better thinking about my high paying job in organizational psychology as my back-up.

 

[erg923]

LOL. I do need to eat.

My friend is applying to jobs in the private sector and apparently all you have to do is apply through linkedin these days without even having to send a cover letter or resume (your resume is on linked in now). My back up if I don't get a post-doc/job in the clinical field is to apply to some high paying jobs in the private sector with my PhD. I think i'll be marketable. The good news is that everything is so much easier after making it through a clinical psychology program. I'm making myself feel better thinking about my high paying job in organizational psychology as my back-up.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless you have some significant demonstrated skill/experiences in grad school with org development, coaching, programmatic development, or team leadership, that aint happenin...

Companies really wont care that much about your ability to assess "personality" and abilities with your MMPI and WAISs. I wonder how you get those gigs working for insurance companies reviewing claims and preauths for assessment and npsych assessment. Working for the evil empire pays well, so I've heard.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

...I'm only applying to 8 sites because i have family obligations here and I want to settle in this location and network here. What is the # of sites that people generally recommend?? It seems like it may not be enough, but on the other hand, I can devote more time to having a quality CV and cover letters. I applied to many sites for internship and had to turn down interviews, but now i'm actually limited geographically. Also, I think if you take a post-doc in a state where you don't want to practice, it can be harder to get back to where you want to end up anyhow.

I personally applied to about a dozen, although that ended up being significant overkill and I likely could've gone with half as many. I actually originally only selected around 6, but a few peers suggested I aim for 10-12 "just to be safe." I certainly wasn't the world's strongest candidate by any stretch of the imagination, but I still somehow ended up with interviews everywhere I applied.

A big part of the overall level of competitiveness in the process is likely largely dependent on both A) who you know, and B) where (geographically) you're applying. Most of the sites I chose had received somewhere from 20-50 applications per spot the preceding few years, which (while not at all shabby) is of course a far cry from the 200-300 number that I've seen mentioned on these forums with respect to positions in the northeast.

 

[2012PhD]

I personally applied to about a dozen, although that ended up being significant overkill and I likely could've gone with half as many. I actually originally only selected around 6, but a few peers suggested I aim for 10-12 "just to be safe." I certainly wasn't the world's strongest candidate by any stretch of the imagination, but I still somehow ended up with interviews everywhere I applied.

A big part of the overall level of competitiveness in the process is likely largely dependent on both A) who you know, and B) where (geographically) you're applying. Most of the sites I chose had received somewhere from 20-50 applications per spot the preceding few years, which (while not at all shabby) is of course a far cry from the 200-300 number that I've seen mentioned on these forums with respect to positions in the northeast.

Northeast and CA get 100-400 applications on average. I haven't seen any with 50 applications even!

 

[2012PhD]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless you have some significant demonstrated skill/experiences in grad school with org development, coaching, programmatic development, or team leadership, that aint happenin...

I know 6 psychologists who got their degrees in clinical psychology without organizational experience in graduate school who now do organizational psychology work as a big part of their private practices. Many do executive coaching and workshops for companies on mindfulness etc. It takes some time and persistence but if you are savvy about marketing yourself it seems to be an option. Some people also did some extra workshops/trainings in org. development after graduate school. I know of another clinical psychologist who started an organizational consulting firm and now has 20 MBA's/PHD's working for him.

As a psychologist, you have years of training in consulting, counseling, research, training and managing others so it really depends on how well you can convey those skills to match the job.

I think having a PhD from a good school with a high GPA (thanks to graduate school grade inflation) stands out in the private sector, particularly if you know how to translate the skills that you learned in a broader way. Most people out there don't even have college degrees so if you look beyond this field--there are many options (only 30% of people in US have college degrees).

I've also heard of people making a killing reviewing claims for insurance companies and also reviewing disability assessments. Then there is the option of hospital managerial positions for those with patient experience.

I'm totally off topic. I'm just trying to say that there are many options out there if things don't work out for me and others who do not make it going the traditional route in clinical psychology. I truly believe this and have met people with clinical degrees who are successful in a wide range of occupations.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Northeast and CA get 100-400 applications on average. I haven't seen any with 50 applications even!

I will say that I applied to a couple sites in the northeast, and also looked at (but didn't apply to) a few in CA. They were generally reporting application numbers in the 20-50 range, but this was for neuropsych sites, which likely pull from a somewhat smaller applicant pool.

 

[2012PhD]

I will say that I applied to a couple sites in the northeast, and also looked at (but didn't apply to) a few in CA. They were generally reporting application numbers in the 20-50 range, but this was for neuropsych sites, which likely pull from a somewhat smaller applicant pool.

Wow..that is not too bad. I'm looking at general hospital/VA positions in/near a big city. However, when I look at the 2013 numbers, it seems like numbers have almost doubled for many sites in the last 1-2 years. Neuropsych is more specialized so they get fewer applications, but they only accept one person. Sites i'm looking at accept between 1-10 post-docs.

 

[erg923]

I know 6 psychologists who got their degrees in clinical psychology without organizational experience in graduate school who now do organizational psychology work as a big part of their private practices. Many do executive coaching and workshops for companies on mindfulness etc. It takes some time and persistence but if you are savvy about marketing yourself it seems to be an option. Some people also did some extra workshops/trainings in org. development after graduate school. I know of another clinical psychologist who started an organizational consulting firm and now has 20 MBA's/PHD's working for him.

As a psychologist, you have years of training in consulting, counseling, research, training and managing others so it really depends on how well you can convey those skills to match the job.

I think having a PhD from a good school with a high GPA (thanks to graduate school grade inflation) stands out in the private sector, particularly if you know how to translate the skills that you learned in a broader way. Most people out there don't even have college degrees so if you look beyond this field--there are many options (only 30% of people in US have college degrees).

I've also heard of people making a killing reviewing claims for insurance companies and also reviewing disability assessments. Then there is the option of hospital managerial positions for those with patient experience.

I'm totally off topic. I'm just trying to say that there are many options out there if things don't work out for me and others who do not make it going the traditional route in clinical psychology. I truly believe this and have met people with clinical degrees who are successful in a wide range of occupations.

I know it can be done, particular, if you are doing it in a PP consulting role., getting a gig here a gig there. I just meant dont expect to have YUM Brands, or any other multimillion dollar corps hiring clinical psych Ph.Ds for these types of roles straight out of internship.

 

[2012PhD]

I know it can be done, particular, if you are doing it in a PP consulting role., getting a gig here a gig there. I just meant dont expect to have YUM Brands, or any other multimillion dollar corps hiring clinical psych Ph.Ds for these types of roles straight out of internship.

I agree. I'm feeling very confident after surviving the match process for internship despite crazy odds so i feel that many things are possible now.

 

[Pragma]

I agree. I'm feeling very confident after surviving the match process for internship despite crazy odds so i feel that many things are possible now.

Although everyone freaks about about the match, don't 75% of people match? I haven't looked at the numbers in a few years, but that was the rate when I applied for the 09-10 year.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Although everyone freaks about about the match, don't 75% of people match? I haven't looked at the numbers in a few years, but that was the rate when I applied for the 09-10 year.

For internship? The overall match rate is ~75%, and APA match rate is ~50%.

For postdoc, I actually have no idea overall. I know that for neuropsych, it's roughly 50-60%.

 

[2012PhD]

For internship? The overall match rate is ~75%, and APA match rate is ~50%.

For postdoc, I actually have no idea overall. I know that for neuropsych, it's roughly 50-60%.

This doesn't include the students who forgo the APPIC process entirely as many do in professional schools (opt for CAPIC instead) or the people that don't get interviews and drop out of the match. Sadly people who complete APA internships are in the minority in our field!

the imbalance between spots and applicants in competitive big cities is often 4 out of 200+

 

[2012PhD]

I've heard also about 50% for the neuropsych post-doc match rates. Its completely unacceptance to me that after getting into a PhD program, training in neuropsych for 5-6 years, matching for an internship, and then not being able to be a neuropsychologist after all this! Why isn't there more noise about the post-doc crisis?

 

[Member6523]

I've heard also about 50% for the neuropsych post-doc match rates. Its completely unacceptance to me that after getting into a PhD program, training in neuropsych for 5-6 years, matching for an internship, and then not being able to be a neuropsychologist after all this! Why isn't there more noise about the post-doc crisis?

Well, you don't need an APPCN post doc to become a neuropsychologist...it's not even a protected term. Any clinical psychologist can technically call himself one (though ethically)...

If you are talking about getting ABPP-CN boarded, the APPCN match guarantees a post doc that will train you, but you can find plenty of post docs that will provide training outside the match too.

 

[Member888]

I can only mention what I did, was to have two from my doctoral program (my advisor and another supervisor) and one from my internship TD.

I'll say that if you have NO letters from your internship or doctoral program, that'd certainly be a red flag. But as to whether you should have 2 from internship and 1 from your doc program, or 2 from your dog program and 1 from internship, I say just go with whoever you think can write you the strongest letter for the programs you're looking at.

Worst-case, you can request all four and then send out as appropriate.

Thanks, AcronymAllergy!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well, you don't need an APPCN post doc to become a neuropsychologist...it's not even a protected term. Any clinical psychologist can technically call himself one (though ethically)...

If you are talking about getting ABPP-CN boarded, the APPCN match guarantees a post doc that will train you, but you can find plenty of post docs that will provide training outside the match too.

Yep, there are certainly some solid postdocs that aren't APPCN members and/or that don't participate in the match (Johns Hopkins comes to mind as one, along with many sites in the northeast and California); the 50-60% rate is only for the match. Additionally, I've been told that the applicant pool typically contains a portion of individuals who, up to that point, have little to no training in neuropsychology. Thus, in all honesty, they might not be qualified for a neuropsych postdoc. Many participants also may also opt to go straight into a job after having signed up for the match first.

 

[psychRA]

I'm really having trouble deciding how many applications to submit. Our TD suggested 5-7, while stating that prior cohorts have had no trouble securing a postdoc and that even 5 positions is more than enough. In an individual meeting, the TD had me pare my list down from 12-13 sites. I know that my TD is way more experienced and has a better understanding of this process than I do, but it's hard to let go of the idea that I need to apply to a lot more sites. Anyone else in the same boat?

 

[bum]

I'm really having trouble deciding how many applications to submit. Our TD suggested 5-7, while stating that prior cohorts have had no trouble securing a postdoc and that even 5 positions is more than enough. In an individual meeting, the TD had me pare my list down from 12-13 sites. I know that my TD is way more experienced and has a better understanding of this process than I do, but it's hard to let go of the idea that I need to apply to a lot more sites. Anyone else in the same boat?

I'm in the same boat. However, my TD and supervisor suggest leaning toward 10-12 applications, as we are in a competitive area of CA. I hear that predocs here have been able to secure their first-choice positions, but I think that I'm still feelings the "fear" from the match last year. I've been told to be careful about over-applying due to having to schedule interviews during a busy clinical time of the year.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Keeping the interview schedule in mind is definitely solid advice. In neuropsych, we're somewhat "lucky" in that nearly all of our interviews occur during a 5-day period at INS. Plus, it's essentially assumed/expected we're going to apply for postdocs, so our supervisors might be somewhat more prepared for our multiple time-off requests. I actually ended up applying to about a dozen sites, but because of INS, only had to request two days off outside of those needed for the conference.

I noticed with postdocs that sites were much more open to phone/skype interviews. For those sites not at INS, this was actually much closer to the norm than were site visits. Not sure if that generalizes to non-neuro areas, but from what I've heard, that seems to be the case.

Personally, I say if you have 12 sites that you REALLY, REALLY like, apply to all of them. But if the true number is closer to 5-7, then go with 5-7 and don't look back.

 

[Milk Milk Milk]

I'm really having trouble deciding how many applications to submit. Our TD suggested 5-7, while stating that prior cohorts have had no trouble securing a postdoc and that even 5 positions is more than enough. In an individual meeting, the TD had me pare my list down from 12-13 sites. I know that my TD is way more experienced and has a better understanding of this process than I do, but it's hard to let go of the idea that I need to apply to a lot more sites. Anyone else in the same boat?

I was in the same boat. My advisor told me I should apply to 3 max. My internship TD said I should apply to 8 max. I found a few more than that, 15 to be exact, but after researching like crazy I found that 10/15 were the best fit and the other 5 were filler. The filler sites were OK fits but not really what I wanted to be doing. I dumped the filler and am applying to 10. I think pinpointing an exact number is a bit arbitrary, IMO. I'm going with my personal mantra that it's fit over formula. Good luck!

 

[Member6523]

I'm applying to 11...seems like a safe bet. Once you make it to a respectable APA accredited internship, the pressure seems a little less. Or maybe that's just what I keep telling myself.