2013 Rank List

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ChargerBo8

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Long Time reader, first time poster. Let's get this rank list thread started.

Here are my top 6 programs in no particular order. I interviewed at 12. I am from the southern portion of the country, so that is where my bias lies. Im not a fan of the Midwest and NE, thus I didn't apply to programs there.

Stanford: Easily most northern program I applied to. Probably my favorite program overall. Cost of living here is a huge issue. Didn't get to meet many residents on interview day, so it was hard to truly gauge their happiness. I also heard that call at Valley and driving between sites can be rough. However, with Teraoka as PD, their academics and the resources Stanford provides, they became my favorite program (as long as no other factors, such as cost of living, are considered).

UAB: Solid overall program. Birmingham is a sneaky nice city. You just have to get over preconceived notions you have about Alabama. Strong didactics and happy, friendly residents. Also, everything is very centralized within the program, which requires very little driving between sites.

USF: Not much information out there on this program. To be honest I applied purely due to the Florida location and sunny year round weather. After my interview, I still had questions about the program. However, I have a gut feel about this place that they are on the way up with their new no nonsense, resident friendly program director. Also, all of the residents were super friendly and low key. That is always a good sign. Being categorical is a plus as well. Didactics still seem to need some help.

UCLA: The residents seemed happy here, but not as insanely happy as previous posts indicate IMHO. Dr. Aragaki, the PD, may be the nicest person ever and she seems to be a resident advocatein every sense of the term. 60% outpatient. Lots of procedures. Probably the strongest didactic program I came across. I would be very happy here. However, cost of living is an issue. Also, the PD and residents freely admit that the driving between sites can be rough. This is offset by the programs strengths though.

Emory: Very well rounded and complete program with strong didactics. A little inpatient heavy in the first two years. PGY 4 is all outpatient with no call or weekends. Once again, friendly, low key residents. They have some unique rotations, such as critical care physiatry. Atlanta traffic is terrible as some previous posts on this program indicate. But not as bad as LA. I heard through the grapevine that an attending here is outright malignant and brutal to the residents. However, based on my experience, I think this would be a great place to train. Seems to be the best program in the SE. Possible malignant attending raises some questions.

UCI: Another wild card program based mostly on location and family proximity. Dr Hata has this program going in the right direction. Didactics are getting much stronger. Lots of procedures. However, they currently have only a 1 year accreditation. Red Flag. Ive been told that they entirely expect at least a 3 year accreditation after their vist this month. I believe they are receiving some help from UCLA program. I don't see accreditation being an issue in the future. Once again, another southern California, laid back,procedure heavy program. Could be a sweet gig as long as accreditation comes through as expected.

So there are the top 6. Some based solely on program strength. Some a mixture of program and location. Some driven by location, but would still provide the necessary training. Some based on gut feeling. This is definitely a hard decision, but things are starting to shake out.

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I interviewed at 4 of those programs. Your assessments seem pretty accurate. I will PM you for more specifics.
 
No personal help here. I have heard UCLA is one of best outpatient PMR places on west coast for what it's worth.

A friend graduated from uci and like it
 
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Please explain what you heard about malignant attending at Emory.
 
Just something I heard through the grapevine as I was on the interview trail. I do not think it is anything that should change how you view the program. Is anyone else going to post their rank lists/top programs? Let's not make this thread just about my list.
 
Applied to 20 programs, chose 12 interviews. Ranking all 12.

I'm interested in MSK, sports/spine and also SCI.

I had a hard time trying to figure out what prelim medicine programs to apply to since some are not very PM&R friendly. I applied to around 20, received invites to the following 7 (maybe this list will be helpful for future applicants):
Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center/North Side Health Network -- Chicago
Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine -- Roanoke, VA
Exempla St Joseph Hospital -- Denver
Maimonides Medical Center -- Brooklyn
Texas A&M College of Medicine-Scott and White -- Temple, TX
University of Texas Southwestern -- Austin, TX
Woodhull Medical and Mental Health Center Program -- Brooklyn


*disclaimer* info below may not be 100% correct

My top 5 in alphabetical order are:

Emory: 6 advanced programs
New CRM building hopefully by 2014. Shepherd Center is amazing.
PGY2 -- 2 mos each of: CRM stroke, CRM ABI, Shepherd ABI, Shepherd SCI, general and ortho, outpatient
PGY3 -- 2 mos each of: critical care/consults, emg, peds, shepherd sci, va msk/emg, cardiac rehab, p&o, outpt clinic
PGY4 -- 2 mos of each: senior elective, sports med, interventional spine, va msk/emg, pain/emg, VA ortho/rheum/interventional spine
plenty of opportunities to independently perform EMGs and interventional spine procedures
didatics are on 18-month schedule, Tues 7-8am, Thurs 7-10am
call: Shepherd center (home), CRM (in-house, post-call day off) -- PGY2: Shepherd 5-6/month, CRM 4-5/month; PGY3: Shepherd 5-6/month, CRM 3-4/month; PGY4: no call
moonlighting allowed but have to cover own insurance?
warm weather; ATL traffic, eek

Kessler: 8 advanced positions; soon to become affiliated with Rutgers
rotations are picked by resident year, by the time PGY2 picks, it's usually 8 inpt, 4 outpt
very extensive curriculum, 18 mos didatic schedule, didatics on Wed AM
hospital call: PGY2: 7-8/2mos rotation, PGY3: 5-6/2mos, PGY4: 3-4/2mos
excellent benefits: 4 weeks vacation + birthday + if you work holidays, get an extra day per holiday, PGY2: 3 days off for conference (don't have to be presenting), PGY3: 5 days, PGY4: 7 days
moonlighting only allowed if first author on paper
lots of driving between rotation sites
unsure of the area, didn't realize it was in a suburban-ish location

Ohio State: 6 positions = 2 categorical + 4 advanced
lectures on 18 mos schedule, lectures/case presentations every day at 7:30 except for Tues, recorded live, resident website where lectures posted
call: all at home, approx once/week, one weekend/month, no call PGY4
research requirement can be as little or as much as you want,
good interventional exposure with new spine center
EMGs galore, 400+
best moonlighting gig: during PGY4 with workman's comp $120/hr (one resident almost doubled her salary)
was pleasantly surprised by the program, have always loved Columbus -- great city

RIC: 12 positions = 4 categorical + 8 advanced
new rehab hospital (basically next door) to be completed 2016
PGY1 (categorical) -- 6 mos of medicine (wards, icu, er), 3 mos neurology, 2 mos SCI, 1 mos stroke
PGY2 (categorical) -- same as adv except 3 mos med electives vs 3 mos inpatient rehab
PGY2 (adv) -- 2 mos ortho, 2 mos general, 2 mos SCI, 2 mos stroke, 2 mos TBI, 1 mos therapy/coverage, 1 mos outpt
PGY3 -- 2 mos EMG, 1 mos sports & spine, 2 mos peds, 1 mos VA inpt, 3 mos consults, 1 mos pain, 1 mos p&o, 1 mos elective
PGY4 -- 3 mos EMG, 1 mos sports & spine, 1 mos pain, 1 mos community rehab, 1 mos VA outpt, 2 mos selective, 3 mos electives
daily didatics, noon lectures during lunch, sports and spine lecture thurs afternoons
continuity clinics started second half of PGY2, can change every 6 mos
call: in-house, only doctor in hospital, covering 180+ beds, but have help if needed: PGY2: 17-19/year, PGY3: 14-16/year, PGY4: 3-4/first 6 mos; plus "note writing" weekends
moonlighting not allowed
did the summer externship back in the day at RIC -- made me fall in love with rehab
worried about hands-on experience for procedures
Chicago gets cold, but it's the best city ever during the summer!

VCU: 6 positions = 4 categorical + 2 advanced
6 outpt, 6 inpt mos in PGY2; 6 mos total dedicated EMG; 1 of 5 VA polytrauma centers in country
Friday didatics from 7-10am, additional lectures on different days at different sites (inclu business and ultrasound)
call: home call, PGY2: every 6th night, PGY3: every 6 weeks, PGY4: every 10 weeks
another program that I was pleasantly surprised by -- very well-rounded, great mentorship, required sports coverage
city of Richmond gets a bad rep, but I liked it

Hope this helps.
Come out of hiding fellow applicants, let's pay it forward, y'all!
 
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Applied to 20 programs, chose 12 interviews. Ranking all 12.
I'm from Texas, and know I want to leave Texas for residency. I think the Texas programs are pretty good, but are towards the bottom of my list for personal reasons.
I'm interested in MSK, sports/spine and also SCI.

I had a hard time trying to figure out what prelim medicine programs to apply to since some are not very PM&R friendly. I applied to around 20, received invites to the following 7 (maybe this list will be helpful for future applicants):
Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center/North Side Health Network -- Chicago
Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine -- Roanoke, VA
Exempla St Joseph Hospital -- Denver
Maimonides Medical Center -- Brooklyn
Texas A&M College of Medicine-Scott and White -- Temple, TX
University of Texas Southwestern -- Austin, TX
Woodhull Medical and Mental Health Center Program -- Brooklyn


*disclaimer* info below may not be 100% correct

My top 5 in alphabetical order are:

Emory: 6 advanced programs
New CRM building hopefully by 2014. Shepherd Center is amazing.
PGY2 -- 2 mos each of: CRM stroke, CRM ABI, Shepherd ABI, Shepherd SCI, general and ortho, outpatient
PGY3 -- 2 mos each of: critical care/consults, emg, peds, shepherd sci, va msk/emg, cardiac rehab, p&o, outpt clinic
PGY4 -- 2 mos of each: senior elective, sports med, interventional spine, va msk/emg, pain/emg, VA ortho/rheum/interventional spine
plenty of opportunities to independently perform EMGs and interventional spine procedures
didatics are on 18-month schedule, Tues 7-8am, Thurs 7-10am
call: Shepherd center (home), CRM (in-house, post-call day off) -- PGY2: Shepherd 5-6/month, CRM 4-5/month; PGY3: Shepherd 5-6/month, CRM 3-4/month; PGY4: no call
moonlighting allowed but have to cover own insurance?
warm weather; ATL traffic, eek

Kessler: 8 advanced positions; soon to become affiliated with Rutgers
rotations are picked by resident year, by the time PGY2 picks, it's usually 8 inpt, 4 outpt
very extensive curriculum, 18 mos didatic schedule, didatics on Wed AM
hospital call: PGY2: 7-8/2mos rotation, PGY3: 5-6/2mos, PGY4: 3-4/2mos
excellent benefits: 4 weeks vacation + birthday + if you work holidays, get an extra day per holiday, PGY2: 3 days off for conference (don't have to be presenting), PGY3: 5 days, PGY4: 7 days
moonlighting only allowed if first author on paper!

I stopped reading at this point in the post because I was flabbergasted. Yes that's a word. I understand saying no to moonlighting ie RIC (busy inpatient hospital), but having to be 1st author on a paper to moonlight at Kessler...can anyone with some sense explain what one has to do with the other except placing a demand not related to duty hours on your residents

NJ ain't cheap. Not a good situation for people with families or kids trying to use their skills to pay the bills.

On a side if you are interested in moonlighting during residency, look into opportunities at the programs you are ranking. My programs only rule is that it does not violate duty hours, which is pretty hard to do when you are only on home call every other weekend as a PGY-2 and every 3-4 weeknight home call as senior resident on inpatient months. We also have consult call weekends that average1 every 3 months. So moonlighting is easy. And our program pays for your liability insurance if you moonlight within the satellite urgent care and ER centers associated with our institution.

{end rant}

Upon further reading...

VCU and Emory great choices. ESP if interested in sports MSK pain or I-spine. My friend at VCU really likes it, and I know Emory has good outpatient exposure.
 
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My top six in alphabetical order, with just some quick basic pro's/con's. For reference, I'm interested in SCI, TBI, and MSK the most.

Mayo: Outstanding outpatient/msk training. Excellent inpt--they get some really complicated cases. Really happy residents. I love the "needs of the patient come first" motto and how Mayo really lives up to that. Downsides: No VA (but I was told I could set up an elective at the Minneapolis VA), more difficult for my wife to find work, but otherwise we loved Rochester.

MCW: Great "feel" overall. Happiest attendings and residents I met on the interview trail. Very strong VA. SCI heavy, but that's an advantage for me. Lots of involvement with adaptive sports. Very well rounded in terms of inpt vs outpt. Downsides: all inpt in PGY-2.

Stanford: Polytrauma unit, very strong attendings at the VA and SCVMC. Hands down best inpt program in CA. Working on building up outpt/msk. Can't beat the SF Bay Area for places to live. Unfortunately that contributes to... Downsides: as pointed out, high cost of living. No university inpt rotation. Lots of driving (especially for those rotations up in SF or Oakland--that's about 1hr driving without traffic, possibly 2+ during a bad commute!!)

UMN: I really liked this program--it also has a polytrauma unit and very strong VA. The only program I know of where you can do inpt rotations at a university hospital, county hospital, and VA. Really easy-going faculty. Outpt/MSK is a weakness.

VAGLAHS/UCLA: As others mentioned, Dr. Aragaki is the nicest PD you'll meet on the interview trail. Great outpatient exposure. Inpt still good, but not as strong (they're upfront that they want to focus on outpatient). Strong didactics. Really happy residents. Good exposure to adaptive sports (surfing anyone?). I like the sports coverage for local high schools. Cons: Asthma attacks. High cost of living. Weaker inpatient. Lots of driving.

VCU: Inpatient polytrauma (anyone seeing a trend in my choices?). The only one where you also rotate through PTRP and see the whole spectrum of rehab of those guys. Huge SCI unit (biggest of all the VAs, I believe). Great exposure inpt as well as msk, sports, adaptive sports. Lots of faculty that are super passionate about PM&R. Cons: Richmond, while not as bad as people seem to say it is, still isn't as nice as other "mid-sized big cities." But it's very easy to get away from and enjoy the Virginia countryside.
 
My top six in alphabetical order, with just some quick basic pro's/con's. For reference, I'm interested in SCI, TBI, and MSK the most.

Mayo: Outstanding outpatient/msk training. Excellent inpt--they get some really complicated cases. Really happy residents. I love the "needs of the patient come first" motto and how Mayo really lives up to that. Downsides: No VA (but I was told I could set up an elective at the Minneapolis VA), more difficult for my wife to find work, but otherwise we loved Rochester.

MCW: Great "feel" overall. Happiest attendings and residents I met on the interview trail. Very strong VA. SCI heavy, but that's an advantage for me. Lots of involvement with adaptive sports. Very well rounded in terms of inpt vs outpt. Downsides: all inpt in PGY-2.

Stanford: Polytrauma unit, very strong attendings at the VA and SCVMC. Hands down best inpt program in CA. Working on building up outpt/msk. Can't beat the SF Bay Area for places to live. Unfortunately that contributes to... Downsides: as pointed out, high cost of living. No university inpt rotation. Lots of driving (especially for those rotations up in SF or Oakland--that's about 1hr driving without traffic, possibly 2+ during a bad commute!!)

UMN: I really liked this program--it also has a polytrauma unit and very strong VA. The only program I know of where you can do inpt rotations at a university hospital, county hospital, and VA. Really easy-going faculty. Outpt/MSK is a weakness.

VAGLAHS/UCLA: As others mentioned, Dr. Aragaki is the nicest PD you'll meet on the interview trail. Great outpatient exposure. Inpt still good, but not as strong (they're upfront that they want to focus on outpatient). Strong didactics. Really happy residents. Good exposure to adaptive sports (surfing anyone?). I like the sports coverage for local high schools. Cons: Asthma attacks. High cost of living. Weaker inpatient. Lots of driving.

VCU: Inpatient polytrauma (anyone seeing a trend in my choices?). The only one where you also rotate through PTRP and see the whole spectrum of rehab of those guys. Huge SCI unit (biggest of all the VAs, I believe). Great exposure inpt as well as msk, sports, adaptive sports. Lots of faculty that are super passionate about PM&R. Cons: Richmond, while not as bad as people seem to say it is, still isn't as nice as other "mid-sized big cities." But it's very easy to get away from and enjoy the Virginia countryside.

RangerBob, did you apply to USF? They have polytrauma and a strong VA base as well. I believe there are only 5 polytrauma VAs in the country. It seems like this is one of your interests and was a factor in which programs you applied to. If you did not apply to USF, what was your reasoning?
 
RangerBob, did you apply to USF? They have polytrauma and a strong VA base as well. I believe there are only 5 polytrauma VAs in the country. It seems like this is one of your interests and was a factor in which programs you applied to. If you did not apply to USF, what was your reasoning?

Hey ChargerBo8 (our names seem rather similar...). I did not apply to USF, or San Antonio (the newest of the 5 polytrauma units, though I'm not sure which program it's affiliated with). The main reason I didn't apply was my wife and I weren't really interested in living in Florida (or Texas, though at the time I didn't know San Antonio had a unit). When it comes to applying to programs, we only wanted (and could afford) to apply/travel to so many, so we looked at the geographical regions we were most interested in as well as the programs I was the most interested in, and put the two together. We also have family and ties to the West and Midwest, so the further South we go, the further from those ties we get.

Another facor is also the liklihood of decreased overseas/war injuries (what makes the polytrauma unit really unique, where you see injuries you don't see in the civilian world) with the wars winding down. Which is overall a good thing--the less people getting injured and needing rehab, the better. The future of polytrauma at the VA is pretty solid, but for the near future will be more state-side injuries (MVCs, trauma from high-risk behavior, etc.). So because of that having a polytrauma unit wasn't a critical factor when it came to my applications. But certainly a very big attraction/bonus.

In my honest opinion, everyone should spend at least a week or two on a polytrauma rotation, working with soldiers injured in the war--those guys are fighters and an honor to work with. The special ops guys were the best.
 
Hey ChargerBo8 (our names seem rather similar...). I did not apply to USF, or San Antonio (the newest of the 5 polytrauma units, though I'm not sure which program it's affiliated with). The main reason I didn't apply was my wife and I weren't really interested in living in Florida (or Texas, though at the time I didn't know San Antonio had a unit). When it comes to applying to programs, we only wanted (and could afford) to apply/travel to so many, so we looked at the geographical regions we were most interested in as well as the programs I was the most interested in, and put the two together. We also have family and ties to the West and Midwest, so the further South we go, the further from those ties we get.

Another facor is also the liklihood of decreased overseas/war injuries (what makes the polytrauma unit really unique, where you see injuries you don't see in the civilian world) with the wars winding down. Which is overall a good thing--the less people getting injured and needing rehab, the better. The future of polytrauma at the VA is pretty solid, but for the near future will be more state-side injuries (MVCs, trauma from high-risk behavior, etc.). So because of that having a polytrauma unit wasn't a critical factor when it came to my applications. But certainly a very big attraction/bonus.

In my honest opinion, everyone should spend at least a week or two on a polytrauma rotation, working with soldiers injured in the war--those guys are fighters and an honor to work with. The special ops guys were the best.

RangerBob, thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree with you as far as polytrauma is concerned. This is one of the reasons why making the rank list decision is so tough. There are so few polytrauma centers and the programs that do have them seem to lack other factors I am looking for. And, in hindsight, I am fairly certain that I subconsciously got my name from seeing yours on here several times.
 
RangerBob, thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree with you as far as polytrauma is concerned. This is one of the reasons why making the rank list decision is so tough. There are so few polytrauma centers and the programs that do have them seem to lack other factors I am looking for. And, in hindsight, I am fairly certain that I subconsciously got my name from seeing yours on here several times.

I've definitely found that no single program is perfect, and every program I've interviewed at has weaknesses. The main thing for me was finding a place where the weaknesses are tolerable, which will differ for everyone. After thinking about which programs have the things I really want the most, for me it really comes down to a gut decision. The "feel" that I got from the programs is really what's differentiating my numbers 1 through 6. They all have what I want, so it's just a matter of which one would I be the happiest at.

Fortunately, this is PM&R, and I didn't interview anywhere where I felt I'd actually be miserable. I think we all chose a great field to enter, and a lot of residents I run into on my rotations congratulate me on my choice, saying they wish they had heard about PM&R earlier in medical school.
 
Today is the day. Hopefully after 9 pm tonight more lurkers will post their rank lists. I will post my specific rank list as well. This thread will be of great help to future applicants, so the more rank lists posted, the better.
 
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Likewise, and then I'll have my stomach in knots for a month knowing all you gunners want the same programs as me :)
 
as the deadline approaches, I am finalizing mine and found it helpful actually writing these out b4 submitting the final rank. Interviewed at 12, and ranking all 12. To be honest, most of the programs I interviewed with, I found them to be more similar than different. So depends on what you are looking for in terms of location, inpatient vs outpatient, research, alumni network, ranking, name of the home institution, life outside residency...etc there maybe something unique about each place. I feel all places will provide adequate training and provide enough resources for you to become a good physiatrist as long as you put the effort into the residency training. For me, I don't really care about location as long as i feel i can get the best training and be able to get fellowship/jobs easier, but I do have to take my significant other into consideration on where she can find jobs. Here is my list

Baylor Dallas:
a small program, has a nice family feel to it where everyone including the faculty get along. Since it is not affiliated with a major university teaching hospital, I feel there is some limit to that regarding research and resources. But Baylor University Medical Center is pretty resourceful itself though. The plus is definitely the CME allowance, $5500 over 3 years where you can enhance your CV/training by going to conferences/workshops or address the weakness of the training. Dallas itself is nice, although traffic can be troublesome, but it is a cheap place to live compare to most other metros and the fact that TX has no state income tax; your salary definitely go a bit further.

Baylor/UT Houston Alliance:
The most recognized program in TX, affiliated with the TIRR rehab hospital where its always recognize as one of the top rehab hospital by US News, and always mentioned as the "super 6" if those thing matters to you. Houston like Dallas above, is cheap to live and has everything other metro has. The Texas Medical Center is the biggest in the world and there are definitely a lot of resources that you can utilize. Baylor/UT Houston Alliance is pretty inpatient heavy, especially at TIRR. During interview, residents told us that the outpatient MSK exposure/rotations have improved a lot but its still an unknown. The program definitely has one of the stronger TBI/Stroke and SCI training if you are interested in inpatient. One down side is that all the rotation are very spread out, and you will need to get used to all the different EMR's from each hospital system. End of the day, by coming out of this program, the name within the PM&R field definitely helps.

Emory:
One of my favorite in terms of its curriculum. great exposure to all aspect of PM&R and having just about all of the ACGME approved PM&R fellowships will help since they do take quite a few of their own. The residents get along well there; they hang out with each other and are passionate about their program. Emory is not often talked about on this forum, but I feel it is definitely worthy of being mentioned as one of the top programs. Emory with its affiliation with Shepherd Center has the Atlanta market covered, so there is no competition from other places/programs. The next closest are UAB and Charlotte. One down side similar to Texas programs above, is the driving and traffic.

Harvard Spaulding:
One of the "super 6", and rightfully so. You just cannot compete with the name, the research, the resources Harvard and the Partner Health Care systems can offer. Model system in just about all of the services. 2 electives pgy3 and 2 electives pgy4 to enhance your education. Having a new hospital built is a plus, but the transition may take some time to get used to especially since they are switching to the full EMR. Besides the inpatients rotation at Spaulding and the VA, the rest are pretty spread out too within the Partners system ( MGH, Brigham Women's, Newton Wellesley), so there is definitely some commuting to do as well. and probably not as much hands on experience for pain rotations. Good thing about Boston is the public transportation system. Down side is the cost of living, which is just slightly below NYC. The in house call can be hard for some people, and the neurology rotation at MGH where call is q4 can be tough too, but no calls PGY4.

Jefferson:
Great teaching and academic feel, this program has been well talked about on this forum, so really don't need to go to the details. The program definitely has a strong history within the PM&R field. Even though the census can get high on the inpatient service at Magee, but the attendings help out, so residents said they are not overworked or anything. The anatomy course, teaching the med students and the US exposure is a plus. Of the 2 Philly programs I applied to, I'd say I will rank Jefferson higher than Temple, just a gut feeling thing and its in a nicer location as well.

Mayo Clinic:
Probably my favorite interview, I was really blown away by my experience. Arguably the best MSK curriculum in the country, or at least the places I interviewed at. MSK ultrasound exposure unlike any other program, Dr. Jay Smith is well known, even within the radiology world. Very unique EMG curriculum where you work with the neuro people and see a great variety of cases. 2 month classroom learning the basics and 4 months hands on during PGY3. Very hands-on program. Mayo being one of the top recognizable medical institutions like Harvard, and Hopkins definitely help opens doors later on for fellowship and jobs. People there are down to earth and they all get along well. Rochester, MN can have some cold winter months, and there are not as much in the city compare to NY, Chicago, Boston..etc so it may not be for everyone. I really feel if location is out of the question, Mayo will probably be most people's #1

Ohio St:
a very strong program in the mid-west, Columbus itself probably doesn't offer much, but it is a nice college town. I actually really enjoyed my visit. The program definitely has some history to it. The PD knew my application files like inside out, really show they care about who they are recruiting. Like others mentioned b4, the moonlighting opportunity is a big plus. The program itself has a good vision and willing to adapt. Definitely has a strong EMG curriculum, and a lot of opportunities in the area.

Temple:
another well discussed, well known historic program. Strong alumni network connection. the main hospital is not in so nice part of the town, but Moss is a different story. Good exposure to everything. Not going to go into it much more since I feel Temple, Jefferson and some other more talked about programs people in the past have already post very useful info.

UNC Chapel Hill:
North Carolina is pretty nice place to live, and people there are easy going/laid back. Another small program ( 3 categorical positions each year) like Baylor Dallas. So it definitely has a nice feel. Good thing about categorical is that you don't have to look for a separate intern year, and you will get to know your colleagues from other specialties well, ie Ortho, Rads, Anesthesia, Neuro...etc so you can get some good networking experience. Home call, which is nice, but the only concern about these small programs is the amount of experience. UNC is still a relatively young program, so its still establishing itself in the UNC system I feel. but it is getting better i heard. They just moved their outpatient to a brand new/renovated location. EMG is share with neuro dept, and you get 6 months of it ,but primarily working with the PM&R attending though.

UPMC:
My favorite dept chair that I met during interview trail. Dr. Boninger has a clear vision and direction for the program and has the support of the UPMC system ( which btw is a well resourced, big system like Mayo's and Partners). UPMC comparing to its closeby programs of like Ohio St, Jefferson and Temple, probably don't have as strong of reputation historically, but it has come a long way the recent years. The program seems to be willing to adapt to the current landscape of PM&R and it offers a tremendous amount of research and education opportunities. Pittsbugh is a nice little city, bigger and more things to do than Columbus, but probably not as much comparing to Philly. Besides the reasonable salary, the extra CME money is a lot more than most other programs. And the additional 1500 for conferences/board reviews PGY4 year is a huge plus.

UT San Antonio:
Another all categorical program ( but this one has 8 spots per year). intern year is actually split between PGY1 and PGY2, so you can the PM&R exposure earlier on the first year. can be both good and bad. Very good EMG , with well known faculty. affiliated with the VA that has one the few polytrauma unit in the country. cost of living is probably the cheapest of all the places I interviewed at with no state income tax. The only program I know of that uses a night float system for the calls. of all the Texas programs, UTSA is probably the most balanced in its curriculum, but San Antonio has a bit less to offer than Dallas and Houston for things to do outside of residency

UT South Western:
To be honest, I still don't know how i should rank this program ( read my other post about the UTSW fraud lawsuit/investigation). Like i said, it may be nothing that comes out of the lawsuit/investigation, but 2 of the people named in the case are still current faculty and very involved, so I don't know what effect it will have on the program, and its standing within the UTSW/Parkland system or its reputation within PM&R. I think most people don't know about what happened outside of Texas though. Prior to finding out about the incident, UTSW is definitely my favorite Texas program, tons of hands on experience, reasonable call, great benefits/salary, nice location, brand new hospital being built..etc but i just don't like having this cloud hanging over.
 
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I have a few similar to the above posts, so I'll just add a couple things. In alphabetical order:

Baylor/UTH: Elite program. Heavy inpatient but working to increase outpatient exposure. Houston traffic sucks, but the hospitals are located close to each other for the most part. Cost of living in areas away from the med center is great.

East Carolina University: Very laid back staff and residents. Residents were very happy. It's a categorical program, so moving once was a plus. Vidant Medical Center was impressive (at least a half mile long hallway). They have good exposure to outpatient and inpatient and were given opportunities to perform several procedures. Greenville is a city with a good location and is a great place to raise a family, as housing is pretty inexpensive. If you're single, though, I don't imagine there is much to do.

Emory: One of my favorites for the same reasons as wavygravy. Great program. For the most part, the faculty is great, strong didactics, and residents are happy for the most part. There is one attending (though not Emory faculty to my knowledge) who is miserable to work with, and most residents hated their month with him. His rep as a hot head even carried over to other institutions. He's very knowledgable in his field, though. Atlanta is a fun city, very centrally located, and has great food. The traffic is horrendous, though, and the hospitals are pretty spread out over the city (there is no moving close to a central location like Baylor/UTH).

Louisiana State University: A hidden gem in PM&R. The staff is very dedicated to teaching and very laid back. These are probably the happiest residents I came across. The categorical program incorporates the prelim year into PGY1 and PGY2, so you get PM&R exposure right off the bat. They also eliminated medicine wards as a requirement, and they tailor the prelim requirements to the resident's liking. There is no in house call for 4 years. They get tons of exposure and procedure numbers are through the roof. Medical students walk away from rotations with upward of 10-20 injections in a 4 week span. There is no elective time, though, because of the extra rotations spent in pain clinic. The program didn't seem to take a hit with the Louisiana budget cuts that are going into effect. They also have an ACGME accredited pain fellowship and are very kind to the PM&R residents. 2 of their PGY4's got positions this year. New Orleans is also a pretty amazing place to live. The weather can be miserably hot in the summer, but it has mild winters if the cold is not your cup of tea. The downside is a couple EMG rotations in a city 45-60 mins away, but everythig else is pretty close, and traffic is not bad. The VA hospital is still run down from Katrina, and they have one floor for PM&R, which isn't much to write home about. That said, the experience trumps the facilities. They are also building a state of the art VA that is set to open in 3-4 years, as well, which can't hurt when it comes to finding jobs.

New York Presbyterian: Another great program. Columbia and Cornell hospitals merged, and the program benefits from the best of both worlds. They get to train at world class facilities such as MSK, HSS, and NYP, as well as Burke Rehab and Blythdale Children's. the faculty is very friendly and geared toward teaching and research. Didactics are at the Cornell campus on Thursday mornings and Columbia's on Friday. There is a shuttle that makes the travel inconvenience tolerable. There is a non-ACGME sports and spine fellowship associated with the program as well. Residents seemed to be pretty happy. The downsides that were mentioned were too many consult rotations where they didn't learn too much, and in house call a couple days a week on inpatient months. They also mentioned that there was not much opportunity to do interventional procedures (one mentioned having less that 10 interventional pain compared to hundreds experienced at other programs). Also, there are no electives, so rotating woth another program must be done durig vacation time, which I don't believe can be done in a hands on setting. That said, it's Columbia/Cornell, so the name carries a bit of weight. New York is a positive and a negative, depending on how you see it. It's the biggest and most expensive (by far) city in the country. It's also one of the most diverse, with an infinite amount of things to do. They have cheaper housing affiliated with both Columbia and Cornell, but most residents rely on public transportation, though some have cars. Weather is pretty hot in the summer and freezing in the winter. To each his own, though, in those regards.

UAB: Loved the program for the same reasons mentioned in the OP. the UAB facilities are gorgeous, and Birmingham was a delightful surprise. The residents were happy and get a wealth of experience. There is a pain fellowship associated with the program, and they used to have a sports med as well. They did mention that ESPN's Dr. James Andrews, who practices in Birmingham, does take on fellows for sports medicine occasionally. I'm not sure how often or how accurate that is, though.

Anyways, that's the nuts and bolts of my top choices. Feel free to message me with any questions or comments.
 
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9 pm EST has passed. I am posting my rank list in order. Hopefully others will do the same. I have commented on these programs in my previous post. I will only add short comments as to how I differentiated programs and decided upon how to rank them. Please feel free to PM me with specific questions.

1. Emory: Overall most complete program. Close to some family. Manageable cost of living. Great didactics. The malignant attending is real. The month with him, if he is still around, will be miserable. However, this was not enough to sway me from ranking Emory #1. This program should be mentioned in the same breath as the other "super" programs.

2. USF: More like 1b. Incredible location, low cost of living and amazing facilities. Didactics still need some help, but otherwise this program has a ton going for them. There is little information out there on this program. Future applicants, do yourselves a favor and give this place a look.

3. Stanford: Again, probably my favorite program overall. To me, they made the best impression on interview day. However, distance from family and crazy cost of living bumped them from #1 down to #3. A residents salary only goes so far.

4. UCLA: Very happy residents and extremely supportive faculty. Dr. Aragaki herself was a huge draw. I know that I would be very happy here. Great procedure experience. High cost of living again played a factor in this decision. Also, I was turned off a bit by their apparent focus on pain. Limited funds when it comes to conference attendance and research projects.

5. UCI: Great location. Very close to family. Dr. Hata has this program going in the right direction. Questionable inpatient experience. Also, the 1 year accreditation situation scared me off a bit. This sounds terrible to say, but I was not impressed by the quality of their residents (save the chiefs and a few others). However, I enjoyed my interview day and I think that I could become an extremely competent physiatrist coming out of this program.

6. UAB: Again, B-ham is a very nice city. All of the residents seemed very happy here. The entire program is very tightly knit. Several attendings have parties at their houses. Family type atmosphere. The only reason why this program is so far down is because I do not think they are strong in the areas where I see my career going. Otherwise, this program would have been much higher on my list. I think anyone would be extremely happy here.

Beyond these programs I ranked 4 others (in order): UTSW-Austin, Carolinas, UTSW-Dallas, Baylor-Dallas. I will not go into specifics regarding these programs. If you have questions, shoot me a PM. I hope that this was helpful. Good luck to all in the match!
 
I'll back ChargerBo on the malignant attending at Emory, though I don't think he's technically a faculty member. Not only was he the worst attending (attitude-wise) I've come across in PM&R, I'd probably go as far to say as he's one of the worst I've come across in any field of medicine (though I'd considers self fairly lucky when it came to attendings my 3rd and 4th years).
 
I am happy to contribute to this thread, since it has been a great resource for me during this process. I am going to be a little unorthodox about how I put my rank list here. Since I couples matched, my real rank list is quite a bit different than what I would have put by myself and I had to turn down interviews at some great places like UW and Jefferson. Therefore, the following is the rank list I would have put if not restricted by SO (but I love her very much and she's sitting right next to me). I think that is more helpful for future applicants.

1. Mayo – My mentor at my home institution trained here and convinced me before the interview that this was the best place around. My career goals are likely MSK/sports related so there is no question that this program is the best for me. The ultrasound, procedural experience, specialty MSK clinics, and EMG experience were the biggest draws for me. I also like TBI and SCI and their inpatient is much better than I expected (#6 on USNews I think), without the super high volumes or in house call of the more famous inpatient programs. I am not a big fan of the location, but I would live here before a place like NYC or Chicago. The resources in terms of conference stipends, rotations in AZ and FL where they pay for your travel and rent, and resident support is unparalleled.

2. UPMC – I don't understand why this program is not in the "top 6." I was extremely impressed on interview day. Dr. Boninger did a great job selling the program and they are really at the forefront of PM&R with their curriculum and research. They have the same opportunities as the top programs and are backed up by a top-notch medical center. I kinda like the fact that their reputation does not yet meet their quality, since it inspires them to continually get better and market themselves to applicants. They have excellent inpatient with robust transplant rehab, which I find interesting, and plenty of MSK/outpt from 2nd year.

3. Harvard/Spaulding – I rotated here and really enjoyed it. The attendings are smart and very willing to teach. The residents are bright, intellectually curious, and fun to hang out with. The new hospital is stunningly beautiful. I really like their sports clinic and excellent sports fellowship. Boston is a great city and I have lived there before. Tremendous resources with Harvard affiliations and top notch chair in Dr. Zafonte. Very little hands on procedural experience, but have plenty of elective time and residents got procedures elsewhere during those months. Soon to implement US curriculum. Great fellowship placement. The residents do work harder than other programs with a tough call schedule in first couple years.

4. Kessler – I was convinced that I would dislike this program because I had heard of a malignant inpatient experience. On interview day, I was very pleasantly surprised because they have lots more outpatient experiences than I expected with great procedural experience. They have a lot of respect at UMDNJ and are even involved with traumas there. The location also surprised me. I hate NYC and assumed it was right by the city, but is actually in nice suburban area with green space. My interactions with the residents were hit or miss, definitely seemed more intense than at other programs. Reputation and fellowship opportunities second to none.

5. RIC – Probably my worst interview day experience, but I just cannot deny the opportunities available through RIC. I had some painful interviews and the place just seemed a little cold to me, but maybe I am overly sensitive. They didn't roll out the red carpet like other programs, but I guess they can afford to do that with their reputation. I am concerned about procedural experience, but residents said they were able to use ample elective time for procedural stuff if they wanted. Residents I met were generally pretty nice and smart. Again, I'm not a big city guy and my SO has a pathological hatred of Chicago for some reason

6. Colorado – The location is amazing. I like that it's a small knit program and I actually prefer the 3 month blocks. Spine with Dr. Akuthota is excellent and a really good pain/sports fellowship, but I noticed that they rarely take their own residents. The residents are super cool and you can pretty much do what you want after residency. Little elective time. Honestly, I wasn't overly impressed by the program, but love the residents and learning atmosphere.

7. Ohio State – I love Dr. Colachis the PD. He is just an awesome guy who is really dedicated to his program. He read every nook and cranny of my application with copious notes. Very good inpatient rehab without in house call. Great EMG. Residents are very nice. I love Columbus. Didn't seem like they had as many resources as other programs. For example, when I asked about conference funding, he said "we try to find some money for you."

7. National Rehab – This is another program that pleasantly surprised me. Really nice facilities and great PD. They are really building an excellent program here. Attendings are good teachers and residents really felt supported. Have gotten more into research recently and offer great resources in terms of conference stipends, etc. My sister lives in DC so I really like the location.

8. Baylor – Boy, I have a lot of negatives about this program. How is this program in the "top 6" when a program like UPMC is not? The residents seemed very unhappy and overworked. They had to downsize the program just to get enough outpatient for each resident and there were rumblings of funding issues. Zero spinal injections per the chief resident. I went through hell just to schedule an interview and dealing with the program coordinator was a huge pain. I met several other applicants who had similar problems. The interview day was very disorganized. I did like the city of Houston and learned the Texas two-step. Also met a guy who showed me his assault rifle collection. The attendings seemed nice enough.

9. Penn – This program was just not in the same league as the others above. I had a weird interaction with the PD that tainted my view of the program. I do like that they are incorporated a half day of outpatient per week during second year, but this pales in comparison with the exposure at places like Mayo and Pitt. The residents were very nice and I enjoyed their bowling social. I might actually have ranked above Baylor because it certainly seemed less malignant.
 
I've recently posted the interview day reactions that I've been saving. So I won't rehash my thoughts.
Here are my top 5. Obviously I have a Northeast/Philadelphia bias for family reasons. I will also agree with stimulus package that if UPMC wasn't where it is, I would likely have put it number 1 or 2. It's a great program with amazing of resources.
Columbia/Cornell
Jefferson
Temple
UPenn
UPMC
 
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Likewise, and then I'll have my stomach in knots for a month knowing all you gunners want the same programs as me :)

Good we need more gunners to dispel that plenty of money and relaxation reputation
 
The only thing keeping me from gunner status is the grades +pity+

We need more bright people with good grades who choose PMR first not as backup or for lifestyle.

Glad to hear all the positive mayo buzz. If the Rochester thing is a deterrent one might consider what residency is actually for (best training best resources best connections for future job or fellowship). It makes it less bad and frankly I thoroughly love living here. Note that single and relationship/married people alike still go out on weeknights and weekends in MedCity and have plenty to do. Agree with our strengths as a program and other posters comments.

Also agree with Chargers on Emory. I didn't interview there for residency but wish I would have. Got some inside exposure to their program while at AAPMR this year in ATL. I do know Shepherd center is very well thought of in rehab world. Dr. Mautner their sports MSK US guy trained with Dr James Andrews (espn renowned doc to major pro athletes) in Alabama and really is trying to get their residents more hands on MSK US experience along with some of their other docs.
 
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We need more bright people with good grades who choose PMR first not as backup or for lifestyle.
The field needs hard-working, intelligent, sociable physicians who are genuinely interested in rehab. I hope you don't think I was insinuating otherwise. There are a ton of very competitive applicants on this site all looking at the same programs.
 
long time stalking, first time posting, because i was really grateful for other people's posts. :laugh:

i'm sure everyone has different things they're looking for. just for context, i was looking for teaching/research opportunities > location > pm&r reputation > fellowship opportunities afterwards. i didn't mind so much that some of the programs i ranked higher tends to have rougher hours than others. as mentioned by few others before in other threads, i see the residency as the time for concentrated learning. also, at the end of each review, i'll add what my mentor, who did his residency at RIC and was a former faculty at Spaulding, commented about each of the programs.


Top programs for me:

Spaulding: impressive interview day. dr. zafonte was inspirational. attendings and residents were very down to earth. amazing resources for both research and teaching opportunities. boston was cold on interview day with ridiculously confusing roads, but given i have friends in the area, location was good enough. new building will be exciting to work at, although i'm sure there will be a lot of adjustment woes. but overall, you could tell they had nothing to hide and everything to boast. at the end of the day, it felt right. Mentor: "Absolutely cannot go wrong training here."

Stanford: the PD, dr. teraoka, was amazingly nice and the senior residents talked about how things have exponentially improved since he took the post a few years ago. since he's been around, more research opportunities, new young faculties from top PM&R residency programs around the country, and simply happier residents. location is wonderful, given I'm originally from California and I could definitely appreciate the weather, surfing, and snowboarding opportunities. having friends around is also a plus. granted, their pm&r reputation is not very high, but residents seemed happy, motivated, and well taught. great fellowship opportunities afterwards, including interventional spine. Mentor: "The ortho people there create many of the procedures used by other places and will have a lot to learn from. Given that it's stanford, there's also an abundance of opportunities for research."

Mayo: fabulous people and facilities. everything was close to perfect, except the location was not so ideal for me. again, i'm from california and grew up in large cities all my life, so i was hesitant to rank this place highly. but after digging through many of the reviews and opinions on sdn, i decided it'll be worth it to rank it very high. people are super friendly and there's so much autonomy, there seems to be a ton of learning opportunities very early on. for those not familiar with the mayo model, the attendings are called "consultants," because the residents are the patients' primary doctors and the attendings are "consulted" to help. so, the patients cannot request that they don't talk to any residents -- such model, combined with such down to earth people and still significant opportunities for research and teaching, it was just impossible to not rank it in the top few. Mentor: "Probably the best residency program in the country, especially in MSK."

Hopkins: this was a risk taking move for me. i've only heard negative reviews about this program in person and only vague/mediocre at best on sdn. however, on my interview day, i was really pleasantly surprised. the people that interviewed me were warm and amazing to talk to, including Dr. DeLateur, who was just absolutely fantastic. I'm not sure how involved she is outside of the interview process, but if there are more people like her, it'd be an amazing place to train. again, Baltimore location and low pm&r reputation, made it a risky move, but at the end of the day, I had to go with my gut. to quote Dr. Zafonte during Spaulding interview day, "I frequently went against the popular notions and I fared quite well." That inspired me to rank Spaulding high and take a risk with Hopkins. Overall, I had the feeling that they're going through constant changes/transitions to try to improve the program, which is always favorable in my eyes -- no program is perfect, but having people who care enough to try to keep improving it? It's just a matter of time until they get it right. As for the MSK teaching, they do have it. Doesn't seem to be extensive, but on interview day, they provide a schedule of all the residents for the year... and they do show couple of months of MSK. Mentor: "Dr. DeLateur with dementia is probably still more brilliant than any of us." Otherwise, he wasn't too familiar with the residency program.

===

other programs that I interviewed with:

RIC: similar experience with other applicants. i found the interview day to be cold, and i don't mean just the weather. i had hard time connecting with the attending interviewer and it felt like she was still thinking about the patient that she just saw while she was interviewing me. otherwise, the education seemed very solid, as one would expect - they changed to Q12 month lecture cycles, instead of the Q18 months they had before. amount of s/electives (~6 months) allotted to pursue desires/weaknesses is great. the facilities look new with fancy toys, but there's even a new building in the works. Chicago is just an okay city for me (i think i'm on the minority on this one), but the cost of living is on the high side, combined with freezing winters... All northwestern med students are required to rotate through RIC, but as with any "required" rotations in the 4th year of medical school, I hear that most are not invested in learning. Given the high reputation, it was a tough decision not to rank it as one of my top programs, but... Mentor: "I'm not sure if it's what it used to be."

U of Washington: wonderful experience. just like other top PM&R programs, very solid presence within the hospital and great learning opportunities. like chicago, I wasn't a huge fan of seattle. the residents, faculties, and PD were really warm and invested... solid training was easily palpable. also had an awesome tour of the hospital AND the city -- they took us around in a van around town, which was very nice. i don't have a cerebral response for why i didn't rank it higher, other than the gut feeling, i just didn't feel like i could belong here. Mentor: "UW is as amazing as Mayo, except in a big city. They've consistently been at the top of PM&R."

UMDNJ: overall, very solid and established program. they emphasized that many brilliant minds have gone through there. they will be associated with Rutgers, but I'm not sure how that will change the program, if at all. Decent cost of living, yet close to NYC and Philly, two really great cities. PM&R reputation and fellowship opportunities after are great. It was solid, but maybe because I came with very high expectations, I wasn't necessarily wow'ed either. Mentor: "Not too familiar with this program."

UCLA: as others have said, it's easy to tell Dr. Arigaki cares a lot about the residents and she's not just doing the PD position as a ladder to higher positions. the residents are genuinely happy and cohesive. LA is a great place to live, minus the traffic and relatively high cost of living. i would love to have come back to LA, but there were too many other programs that I was more impressed with. they do have a coveted pain fellowship after that takes many of the residents. according to one of the ucla student applicants that i met, the residents are involved in the UCLA med school education (ie teaching physical exam skills) and make such positive impact/exposure to the students that many UCLA med students apply to PM&R. Mentor: "UCLA is a wild card."
 
interesting...
Mayo used to struggle to compete against RIC, Kessler, UW
And that was back when they had Finnoff, Smith, Hurdle
 
interesting...
Mayo used to struggle to compete against RIC, Kessler, UW
And that was back when they had Finnoff, Smith, Hurdle

Of course the year I want to go there everyone else does too :smuggrin:

I think this has to do with the changing landscape of PM&R. The vast majority of applicants I met on the trail this year were entering PM&R mainly for the outpatient MSK/sports/spine type of stuff. Mayo has been at the forefront of this for years. Places like RIC, Kessler, and Spaulding are certainly adapting, but will always have an inpatient-first reputation. Things like in house call and large inpatient censuses, though superficial, are going to be a negative for people who aren't going into inpatient. The residents at Mayo went out of their way to tell us how amazing their schedules were, while still getting tons of procedures, EMGs, and other marketable skills for fellowship or private practice. Again, this should not be a big factor, but when you combine it with the best outpatient training in the country, it is pretty appetizing for the new generation of PM&R applicant. A lot of people also had less than positive interview experiences with the big stand alone places this year, particularly RIC.

In all seriousness, people like MedBronc and DOctorJay who come on here and are obviously passionate about their positive experience at Mayo, helps to convince a lot of us SDN addicts. That could also lead to a bias of SDN users liking Mayo more than other applicants.
 
Of course the year I want to go there everyone else does too :smuggrin:
I feel the same way about Emory. I didn't realize it was such a sought after program (not that it shouldn't be). Strangely enough, I'm not seeing too many people ranking Columbia/Cornell. I was under the impression it was one of the better programs.
 
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I feel the same way about Emory. I didn't realize it was such a sought after program (not that it shouldn't be). Strangely enough, I'm not seeing too many people ranking Columbia/Cornell. I was under the impression it was one of the better programs.

Keep in mind we're seeing a pretty small sample size here on SDN. A tiny fraction of applicants have posted their rank lists here. I also met great applicants who didn't even apply to Mayo because of location, so not all hope is lost. If it makes you feel any better, I didn't interview at Emory.
 
Hi all! I too am a long time lurker and have decided to post my list. I found it very helpful this year in scoping out programs and such. I loved a lot of the places I interviewed, it really came down to picking programs that would at least put me within driving distance of family members.

1. UVA: Charlottesville is a great college town, lots of restaurants, plenty to do, especially if you're an outdoorsy type of person. Cost of living is great, and if smaller towns aren't your thing, DC is only 2 hours away. There is a categorical option which is great (the first year is pretty chill from what it seems-ortho, ER, neuro, GI, pm&r rotations. PM&R rotation is usually scheduled over Thanksgiving or Christmas so you get an extra week or so of vacay as a categorical which is sweet.) The chair Dr. Wilder was really nice as was the rest of the faculty. You get A LOT of sports exposure and opportunity to cover sporting events, etc. Like a lot of other programs, pgy-2 year is all inpatient and 5 months of electives are provided in your senior year. The downside I guess is that you do have call as a 4th year, but it's not as frequent as 2's/3's. That's the only major negative I can think of.

2. UAB: Really loved the program director (who's actually transitioning to program chair) and again the opportunity for outpatient exposure and procedures. Birmingham is cool, only two hours away from ATL if you wanna get away, and cost of living is hard to beat. Most residents do live in the suburbs because some rough areas of the city and folks with families want better school districts. 6 months of electives in pgy4 was a BIG plus, also there is an interventional spine fellowship (non-ACGME accredited) that has one reserved spot for someone from the program if they wish. No call pgy4 :)

3. Arkansas: This might come as a surprise to some people. It certainly did to me. Wonderful PD, awesome facilities, and REALLY friendly and obviously happy residents. The strengths of the program are more inpatient as of now, but they're hiring MSK/Sports faculty right now so that is likely to change in the next year or so. Rotations vary by year, but you get approximately 18 mos inpatient at Arkansas Children's Hospital, Univ Arkansas Medical Center, and Baptist Rehabilitation Institute. While you're on inpatient rotations, you sometimes cover in clinic if inpatient is slow. While on outpatient, you will sometimes see consults as needed. Outpatient rotations involved stroke, SCI, pain, cerebral palsy, spina bifida, and also wheelchair and brace clinic. They also have an EMG rotation and then another at the VA, which is great. The downside is that the rotations are 3 months at a time (I prefer 2 month blocks), the pay is a little less than other programs, and there are currently no electives in the PGY-4 year. But honestly, the cost of living is cheap, some people prefer longer rotation blocks, and you're getting plenty of exposure in clinics and inpatient that you may not even want electives. I just got a great vibe from the program and it's not too far from where I was raised. That's why it's so high.

4. Louisville: Recently expanded Fraizer Rehab Institute (Lots of room to grow), great faculty, friendly residents, good cost of living, and also the opportunity to work with U of L athletics sold this program for me. It's only 2 residents per year currently, but I know that the program director plans to expand it to 4-5 in the next 2 years or so (they definitely have the room for it). It doesn't differ from the top 2 programs I've mentioned. Home call when at Frazier. Very laid back. Good board pass rates.

5. Emory: I could've ranked this program a little higher, but I rotated here and I guess I had a little more insight. The experiences that you'll get at Shepherd and Grady can't compare to many other programs. Definitely a top tier program with awesome, awesome faculty. About the malignant attending that everyone keeps mentioning, yes...he's real. If you wanna deal with it during your rotation pgy3 year, that's fine. But I know the resident on that rotation while I was there was absolutely miserable. But pain is temporary I guess. Everyone is really friendly and you have lots of MSK exposure with a sports fellowship available. Downsides are Atlanta traffic (which you won't deal with so much going to work, but getting off and trying to drive home is a hot mess. Even if you live close to one site, the rotation sites aren't close, so you'll deal with traffic regardless). No call pgy4. Home call at Shepherd (which was also a mess at times because often the residents would have to come in and deal with complicated cases with no post-call day), and in house call at CRM.

I'll just briefly mention other programs I ranked.
6. UTSW-Austin: Awesome city, PD used to be over UTSW's program in Dallas years ago. He has an MBA so business aspects of medicine are included in rotations. Good sports exposure as well.

7. Rush: Chicago is cold. LOL. That's why it's not higher. This program is underrated in my opinion. The hospital is brand new (home call, weekly if I remember correctly) and the Rush patient population is very diverse with a large number of cases so you'll be well-trained after. Categorical option.

8. East Carolina: Good program. Categorical with 5/yr. Vidant medical center is impressive, cost of living is amazing. Great place to raise a family. I'm not from NC, but if I was, this would be ranked higher.

9. UTSW: This is a great program, but like others, after I got news about the lawsuit involving the PD and chair, it made me really second guess things. Sure, things could blow over, but if it doesn't (and I doubt it will), in my opinion it will change faculty and the scope of some rotations. I had to move it down, unfortunately.

10. EVMS: This program is "just ok". Nothing special. Still not clear on how many they're letting in per year. The residents were happy for the most part, but were honest about the shortcomings. The attendings I met seemed very nice and knowledgable, and the hospital is a nice size teaching hospital. I didn't want to take a chance and not rank the program, because obviously I need a job, but if I'd interviewed at a couple more programs, it probably wouldn't have made the list.

11. Marionjoy: I didn't vibe with the PD. WEst of Chicago in the burbs, driving sites to outside hospitals is a negative for me. Positives are the hospital is really nice, and you get a good number of EMGs. Not a bad program, I just interviewed at other places I preferred.

Hope this helps someone next year!
 
interesting...
Mayo used to struggle to compete against RIC, Kessler, UW
And that was back when they had Finnoff, Smith, Hurdle

Technically we still have Hurdle at mayo Jacksonville and people get to work with him if they rotate down there for pain.

Dr. Smith is still here. I just sat 20 feet away from him in our friday AM sports conference today.

Losing Finnoff was tough, but we get to see him every year at AIUM course that Mayo hosts. He also is trying to host interested residents and fellows at his sports practice in Tahoe. Would like to start a primary care/PMR sports fellowship there to compliment his groups ortho sports fellowship.

IMHO Mayo have no difficulty competing with RIC Kessler or Washington. I think all great programs , just different from Mayo, all with unique training opportunities.
 
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Mayo is notoriously inbred, so that may not be the case.

Not sure if this is a compliment an observation or a slight. Depends on perspective. Maybe you could shed some light
 
Medical School

Mayo Medical School, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN

Residency

Mayo Graduate School of Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN

Fellowship

Mayo Graduate School of Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN


just an observation. If you look at the institution many of the people are brought up from within, and never leave.

take a chill pill buddy...
 
Medical School

Mayo Medical School, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN

Residency

Mayo Graduate School of Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN

Fellowship

Mayo Graduate School of Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN


just an observation. If you look at the institution many of the people are brought up from within, and never leave.

take a chill pill buddy...

I think there are many of our older staff (consultants) that this is true of. At least staying on after residency at mayo. People like it here, docs are taken care of by the institution, and get to focus on patient care, research first, without much of the headache of managing every aspect of a hospital or outpatient practice.

I can tell you that many of my classmates would love to stay on at the institution for these reasons and more. Many want to go outside mayo and continuing using their training to be great members of other practices and institutions.

Also, many of our staff (especially younger staff) worked or trained at other great places like Ohio state, Utah, Michigan, Kessler, VCU, RIC to name a few...bringing with them great new ideas & perspectives from those places.


PS I had to just take my vitamins this AM... fresh out of chill pills.
 
don't really see the inbreeding at Mayo as an issue. its a great institution, great hospital. people get the best training there and graduates are highly regarded, so of course people want to stay. I get that diversity is great, and a different perspective on how to manage patients is important, but there is also value to the consistency with excellence. I talked to one of my radiologist attending in NC while talking about rank list, he mentioned mayo pay top dollars, around $400k at the time he was finding job, and thats the same for all specialties for academic positions ( not sure if its still that much today). So if the financial package is that great and they enjoy academic medicine, thats an incentive for people to stay especially when academic positions around the country don't pay so well . Granted, Rochester, MN is not a big cities and there limited amount of stuff there, so probably there are not a lot of new influx of doctors from outside especially if they already have family coming out of residency. I did find the people I talked to at Mayo all loved it there, and its not just the PM&R people. One neurologist I worked with who is Mayo trained, said he would have stayed if he didn't have family and kids

so if its good n working and continually producing great doctors, why change it. I will have a problem with inbreeding if the program is malignant, and just continuously producing the same lazy/incompetent residents year after year and people linger around cuz they can't find jobs elsewhere. It is definitely not the case at Mayo. In fact, I really believe Mayo PM&R is at the forefront. While most other programs are trying adapt the current landscape to incorporate the MSK US into their training, Mayo is already light years ahead of everyone else in that regard. And there is a reason why hospitals around the country send people to study what makes the Mayo system so efficient. few of many reasons why I ranked Mayo highly.
 
So can we get back to rank lists or should we just retitle this thread to indicate it's really about mayo and chill pills?
 
So can we get back to rank lists or should we just retitle this thread to indicate it's really about mayo and chill pills?

Please do. It really helps the next years applicant. Thanks for this post. Apologize for any part I played in detouring the objective theme.
 
So can we get back to rank lists or should we just retitle this thread to indicate it's really about mayo and chill pills?

:laugh:

SDN is the premier source for this kind of behind the scenes info. Would love to hear from some more lurkers. This is an early opportunity to make a big contribution to the PM&R community. Putting things in the real order or in "good/better/best"-style categories is probably more helpful than alphabetical. Everyone knows rank order is influenced by personal factors. More interview reviews in the other thread would be great too! :thumbup:
 
If anyone would like to post anonymously, feel free to PM a mod (including me) to post your reviews/rankings for you.

This was an incredibly helpful resource for me when I was applying. While you do have to take what you read with somewhat of a grain of salt.... there is really no other source out there to obtain this kind of info.
 
I think this was the order I put them in. They changed frequently enough though, so I can't remember

1. Mayo - nothing to add that isn't already said in this discussion.
2. University of Wisconsin -- I had a great feeling about the people in the program. I lived in Madison before and could see myself settling there. I was worried that it was not as reputable as other programs... but I decided to go with my gut feeling on this. It is a small program, and I hope the right environment for me to grow.
3. University of Michigan - Seemed to be a very well rounded program, which is important since I don't really know what I like the most in PM&R yet. I enjoyed everyone I talked with there. I'm from Michigan, did my undergrad at UMich, and have friends in Ann Arbor.
4. Schwab - Loved the PD. Felt most comfortable with the residents compared to anywhere else. Did a second look there, and enjoyed the attending I worked with. Everyone was passionate about teaching and being there. But... location was a turn off.
5. Temple - days before the list was due, my sister told me that she was joining our other sister by moving to NYC. I don't really want to move to NYC so I didn't interview there. But I would like to be close to my sisters, this was the only program on the East coast I interviewd at. I liked the residents, and Moss has a great reputation. I would be happy here.
6. Baylor - Would have been #2 since I liked the PDs, the resident I interviewed with, the city and TIRR. but some of the residents didn't seem happy. PD also said several times that the residents work hard, which maybe was why some of the residents seemed happy. It is possible that I was reading into something that was not real, but I didn't want to risk it.
7. Stanford - I really wanted to like this program. I'm introverted, and interviewing at the same time as 30 people wiped me out, so I didn't feel like I clicked with anyone. Impressed with the money they have and the shiny facilities. Not so much with the program.
8. Indiana - Another small program. I really enjoyed the people there. One of the interviewers started discussing politics (that I didn't agree with), and I would hate to be an environment where I felt like I had to bite my tongue or argue. Especially since with such a small group, you would be constantly interacting with the same people. Otherwise they would have been higher on my list.
9. Rush - Liked that it was categorical. Nothing else stood out.
10. Beaumont - Also liked that it was categorical. I wanna get out of Detroit.
11. RIM - I wanna get out of Detroit
12. Marion Joy
 
7. Stanford - I really wanted to like this program. I'm introverted, and interviewing at the same time as 30 people wiped me out, so I didn't feel like I clicked with anyone. Impressed with the money they have and the shiny facilities. Not so much with the program.

Unfortunately I have to agree--of all the programs I interviewed at, Stanford did a poor job of selling itself on interview day. I know this because I rotated there, and after corroborating with a couple other people who rotated there, we were all a little disappointed they didn't sell the program better on interview day. It obviously didn't change our impression of the program because you get to know a program far better from rotating there than from an 8hr interview. But, it is really unfortunate because I think they have a fantastic program and so much to offer. I believe it's only a matter of time before they're widely recognized as the best program west of Chicago after UW and Mayo I know others may disagree with that assessment, but that is my honest opinion.

I completely agree about the size of the interviewee pool--my favorite interviews were the ones where there was about a 1:1 ratio of applicants to residents at the dinners/lunches. (Obviously I enjoyed Stanford as well since I could catch up with the residents, but otherwise it would have been hard as I can be introverted as well).

I'll try and post my rank list soon as I don't have time right this minute. But I did rank Stanford number one, followed by Mayo. It was a tough decision between the two, but Stanford is close to family and where I grew up, and I clicked really well with the faculty/residents when I rotated there. Mayo would be wonderful, but if my wife and I start a family it would really help to be near family, so that helped tilt the scales in the end.

Stay tuned...
 
I don't meant to take this off track but what happened to U of Utah? I thought they were well regarded a couple of years ago.
 
In regards to Utah, I was able to speak with someone affiliated with the program who expressed some concerns. I was informed that it has undergone some fairly recent changes and while the new director is driven and creating better recognition and prestige, it has been at the expense of the residents (in their opinion). I was disappointed to hear this because I had previously been very interested in the program.
 
1. Mayo-like many others I loved everyone I met there. Everyone was very friendly there. One of the Chiefs showed his procedure log and it was unreal how many procedures he had done and he still had over 6 months left residency.

2. U of M-Very well balanced program that is very family friendly. Many of the residents brought their families to the dinner the night before.

3. MCW- another very balanced program with a new PD that is very resident friendly.

4. UTSA- 4 year program where you get to do 6 months of PM&R in the first year. The intern year is 2 years because of this.

5. Ohio State- All of the residence seemed very happy being there. The PD was very personable and new my ERAS application better than I did.

6. Indiana

7. Michigan State

8. Emory

9. UVA

10. University of Wisconsin

11. Kansas University

12. William Beaumont
 
1. Mayo-like many others I loved everyone I met there. Everyone was very friendly there. One of the Chiefs showed his procedure log and it was unreal how many procedures he had done and he still had over 6 months left residency.

2. U of M-Very well balanced program that is very family friendly. Many of the residents brought their families to the dinner the night before.

3. MCW- another very balanced program with a new PD that is very resident friendly.

4. UTSA- 4 year program where you get to do 6 months of PM&R in the first year. The intern year is 2 years because of this.

5. Ohio State- All of the residence seemed very happy being there. The PD was very personable and new my ERAS application better than I did.

6. Indiana

7. Michigan State

8. Emory

9. UVA

10. University of Wisconsin

11. Kansas University

12. William Beaumont

By U of M you mean Michigan...IMHO the only U of M worth mentioning in PM&R.
Agree with everything you said about #2 and #3 from my experiences in 2010. Would have been very happy at either of those places.
 
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