I do mean Michigan.
In regards to Utah, I was able to speak with someone affiliated with the program who expressed some concerns. I was informed that it has undergone some fairly recent changes and while the new director is driven and creating better recognition and prestige, it has been at the expense of the residents (in their opinion). I was disappointed to hear this because I had previously been very interested in the program.
Across the board, I have heard from multiple residents/attendings/PD's that the quality/depth of an number of applicants is vastly greater than previous years. Had one resident tell me that if he was applying right now he would be borderline for even getting an interview at the program he matched at. Glad I am getting in now (crossing my fingers for March 15th), instead of 3-4 years from now. I met some really great co-applicants (as well as some interesting ones) on the interview trail that I would be very happy to train with and that I am glad will be future colleagues.
I didn't apply--I just wasn't interested in the area. I hadn't heard good thing about the program (mostly on SDN), but the truth is there are a couple programs I've heard "not good things" about here that I was very impressed by on my interview day. I think a lot of the information you find here can be outdated, biased, or just plain wrong, and the only way to know for sure is to ideally rotate through the program, or know a resident there who will be 100% candid with you.
what programs did you feel got a bad wrap on here that you were impressed by? Inquiring minds want to know.
what programs did you feel got a bad wrap on here that you were impressed by? Inquiring minds want to know.
Let me preface my post by saying
1) I cancelled the majority of my interviews because I was either 39-40 weeks preggers or s/p emergency c section and too beat to travel
2) rank list was influenced a lot by location AND cost of living
1. mcw
2. mayo
3. u of MN
4. UPMC
5. Colorado
6. Utah
7. UMDNJ
8. Case
9. Temple
10. Syracuse
11. RIC
12. LSU
really, I didn't get a bad feeling about any of these places. I'd be happy anywhere. I just don't want to SOAP it.
Let me preface my post by saying
1) I cancelled the majority of my interviews because I was either 39-40 weeks preggers or s/p emergency c section and too beat to travel
2) rank list was influenced a lot by location AND cost of living
1. mcw
2. mayo
3. u of MN
4. UPMC
5. Colorado
6. Utah
7. UMDNJ
8. Case
9. Temple
10. Syracuse
11. RIC
12. LSU
really, I didn't get a bad feeling about any of these places. I'd be happy anywhere. I just don't want to SOAP it.
I hope I didn't indicate I thought it was a bad program, just not for me. I had two friends that rotated there. They liked everyone they worked with, and thought it was a good program. But neither were impressed on interview day. Good luck to you RangerBob, pass that to the PD if you match there.Unfortunately I have to agree--of all the programs I interviewed at, Stanford did a poor job of selling itself on interview day. I know this because I rotated there, and after corroborating with a couple other people who rotated there, we were all a little disappointed they didn't sell the program better on interview day. It obviously didn't change our impression of the program because you get to know a program far better from rotating there than from an 8hr interview. But, it is really unfortunate because I think they have a fantastic program and so much to offer.
My school had 7 people apply to PM&R from a class of about 150 -- a huge increase from previous years. And some of them are rock stars. I feel like the idiot out of the group. I don't see them posting on here though (I'm sure they are lurking) and I believe they were trying to get out of the midwest. From talking with people on interview days, it didn't sound like other interviewees thought there was a huge increase people going into PM&R from their class. I'm guessing it is just a fluke midwest over representation on SDN.Is it just me, or is there a huge midwestern slant to the rank lists on here? Is this a coincidence or is the midwest just a PM&R hotbed?
I hope I didn't indicate I thought it was a bad program, just not for me. I had two friends that rotated there. They liked everyone they worked with, and thought it was a good program. But neither were impressed on interview day. Good luck to you RangerBob, pass that to the PD if you match there.
It's crazy the increase in numbers. We went from 3 to 9. I believe every one of them are looking at programs in the South.My school had 7 people apply to PM&R from a class of about 150 -- a huge increase from previous years. And some of them are rock stars. I feel like the idiot out of the group. I don't see them posting on here though (I'm sure they are lurking) and I believe they were trying to get out of the midwest. From talking with people on interview days, it didn't sound like other interviewees thought there was a huge increase people going into PM&R from their class. I'm guessing it is just a fluke midwest over representation on SDN.
I did meet many a lot of people from Iowa, which stood out to me.
I still expected a bit more NY programs listed on here, though. There a few Jeffersons, Kesslers, Pitts, Penns, etc. Seems like most people on here took top interviews but avoided NY.We only have three going into PM&R, out of 150. But that's up from one last year and two the previous year.
I agree with our small sample size it's probably very easy to skew the data in favor of the Midwest. But there are also very few programs in New England or the West (2 in Boston, and only 5 in CA--Chicago alone has 5). The Mid-Atlantic seems to have a high concentration, and the South has quite a few programs. But I believe the Midwest still has more programs, and also has more top tier and mid tier programs. Or at least it seems that way--but I could be biased as a Midwesterner (honorary, of course, as I'm a transplant).
No worries--I didn't interpret your post to say Stanford was a bad program. And I agree--I wasn't impressed by the interview day either, so I'm very glad I rotated there since I got a much better sense for the program that way. Honestly if I hadn't rotated there and had to base my decision on just the interview day, it would probably not have been one of my top 4 or 5 choices.
I think they could have done far more to market themselves to applicants, but they didn't. Which I think is unfortunate as it may turn away some applicants who might have actually been a really good fit for the program.
I'll definitely pass on this info to the PD, whether or not I match there.
I still expected a bit more NY programs listed on here, though. There a few Jeffersons, Kesslers, Pitts, Penns, etc. Seems like most people on here took top interviews but avoided NY.
Anonymous post:
Marianjoy: The campus is peaceful and seems tucked away from busy Chicago. New and renovated facilities. It's a stand-alone rehab center so be prepared to run a code if you are doing overnight call. Board pass rate 72% so if you are motivated to teach yourself this isn't a bad program. No resident that I spoke to ranked it #1. Someone actually told me they wanted to switch into anything but IM and didn't even know what PM&R was and took a PGY-2 spot. Not a huge fan of Chicago but it's in the suburbs so not too hectic. You share a lot of stuff with the other Chicago PM&R programs so good exposure.
Yeah keep posting. Looking forward to seeing a where I matched thread next Friday as well.
After interviews, this is how I found myself categorizing the programs (each section in alphabetical order):
Top 3 (again in alphabetical order) and things that stuck out to me a out each:
Univ. of Kansas- took 3 people this year (maybe expanding to 4 for future classes). Advanced program. incredible staff and department chair, who is within his first couple years at the program (from Stanford). He is incredibly smart and runs a spine fellowship (KU also has a peds and new SCI fellowship, with plan in place for sports soon) and the KU spine center as well. The PD was at KU previously, left for a couple years and then just returned in Octoberish (she had been teaching at Harvard if I'm not mistaken) to take the PD position. I rotated here and loved it. Each week during didactics, the chair would check in to see how the residents were doing/if they had any concerns and seemed genuinely concerned about each person. When I interviewed, I got this impression from the new PD as well. The program has had a ton of growth in the past couple years. With this there have been new faculty and facilities. For example, the hospital just acquired an outside clinic for more sports/spine/msk exposure and this (or next?) year will be opening a brand part of the hospital which will hold the rehab floor. The growth is amazing and this program had the most potential of any I interviewed at. The residents seemed to have no problems getting their numbers procedures wise and all did well with fellowships (if I recall correctly, this year's senior class has all 4 doing fellowships-2 doing pain - 1 at Stanford and 1 I don't know where, 1 spine at KU and 1 peds). The department chair (who was interim PD has also redone the didactics, which were the best I saw out of the 3 places I rotated. There was resident involvement, but still a large majority performed by attendings. Great peds exposure (4 months as of now). Home call which was fairly relaxed as it only covered ~30ish beds. The program will also pay for you to attend a board prep course elsewhere during your pgy4 year. I also absolutely loved Kansas City. Wonderful city with many really nice areas. I could see myself taking a job and raising a family here.
Univ. of Missouri: this program takes 4/class. advanced program. They really stood out to me in their educational activities and extracurricular/hands on exposure. This is anything from a weekly night course for residents on MSK U/S to covering MMA fights. The PD dr. Burris really seemed to listen to the residents and try to make the program for their needs. On the interview day, the residents were extremely genuine and really took my questions to heart and answered them honestly - I really got a good feel about the types of people they were (if that makes sense). The entire department also seemed very happy (staff and residents). I also took note of multiple interactions between different residents and floor and rehab hospital staff that indicated there was a great dynamic and good relationships between everyone working together. Columbia is a smaller town (something like just over 100k people), but it's a very cool college town as it's dominated by the university... so there's still a lot for entertainment. I cannot recal if they will cover a board prep course. Residents had a great board pass rate
Univ. of Toledo: program takes 2 ppl/class. Advanced program. Hands down the most dedicated to teaching and board prep, as they have activities wed, thurs and Friday each week. These activities range from didactic time to blocked off time for residents to meet and study together to each Friday morning, the PD meeting with all 6 of the residents to do board review questions. They also will send you to a board prep course in your pgy4 year. The PD here also seemed genuinely interested in the residents and their education. he repeatedly emphasized this in my interview and made a strong impression. There are multiple attendings utilizing MSK U/S and there is a sports and pain fellowship in town. Because the program is so small, the residents seemed to know each other intimately and I got a strong "family feel" here, which was also a huge plus in my book. Further, because there are only 2 people per class, the program is not "resident dependent" and services can operate without a resident (as the rotation schedule does not always allow for a resident to be on a service be because there are so few). Residents got A TON of procedures here (both spine and peripheral joint) and this program seemed to provide some of the most hands on experience I saw. Call is home call. All the residents were very honest and helpful answering my questions and they all seemed happy (and I met all of them except 1 who was on vacation)... The staff seemed happy as well. There is a YMCA gym you can work out at the same building as the department, which is awesome. They also were still completing construction on the building when I interviewed, so the facilities were extremely nice as well . Toledo also appealed to me because (for the most part) everything was smaller and more accessible (vs major medical centers, for example). You didn't have to worry about a ton of different hospitals to rotate at, a lot of driving or even the smaller stuff like where to park and a 2" minute walk each day. Compared to where I'm at for med school, this would be a really refreshing change. At the same time, it's a big enough city, and if you're in the need for a sports/entertainment fix, detroit's less than 1 hour.
Programs I really liked, but not quite as much as the top 3:
Baylor-Dallas - 3/class. advanced. PD dr. Hamilton very nice and personable. Really like the small program, which seemed to have strong didactics. Very strong peds exposure. Absolutely incredible hospital and facilities (apparently Baylor does well for itself). They have added an extra EMG rotation to address prior problems with residents getting enough EMGs. Didn't have as much hands on procedural exposure as my top 3 which is why I placed them in this category. Dallas is a huge city, but looked to be really fun.
ECU- in Greenville, NC (town of ~78k, school has ~28k). 5 ppl/class (i think). CATEGORICAL. I really liked the southern feel (plus only 1-1.5 hrs from beach and outer banks). Even though it's a small town, the hospital services a large portion of the state, so it's quite large (something like 1000 beds) and gets a diverse population of patients. Broad pgy1 curriculum that gives good exposure into fields that relate to Pm&r. Pgy2 is inpatient heavy and from multiple sources I think a busy year (competitively to other pgy2 years). The residents I met ( all upperclassmen) seemed very happy and really got along with one another. The day I arrived and had dinner with the residents, they had been over at an attendings watching football. The cost of living in Greenville was cheap and a lot of the residents had purchased houses. Most clinics were in the area and the site that was far away, the program gave you a car and gas to commute to. Home call
IU- 3 students/year. Advanced. Indianapolis is a great place to live. Stand alone rehab hospital w/ ~90 beds. IN HOUSE CALL. Interesting dynamic because the rehab hosp is ~15 mins away from the main med center in downtown indy. However, the area in which the rehab hosp is is nice w/ some cool restaurants (rick's boatyard café and a lot of the attendings and some residents live very close. Great procedure exposure. Dr Davé is an AWESOME attending and really lets the residents get hands on interventional procedures, even as a pgy2. IU also just hired a new sports and spine doc who trained at univ of Virginia (dr jasper), so the opportunities for residents are growing even more in these fields. They also just finished building a beautiful neuro center which now houses IU's departments of neurology, neurosurgery, pm&r (and maybe 1 or 2 other specialties). also, IU has an anesthesia based pain fellowship, but I'm told it's run by a physiatrist and is friendly to Pm&r grads. The residents here are very happy and nice and they seem get along with each other and the staff very well.
MCW - lots of reviews on here and I agree with what I've read/don't have much to add. Everyone very happy and residents were wonderful hosts. New PD is awesome and really dedicated to teaching. This program really appealed to me and on paper had everything I was looking for. For whatever reason though on interview day it just didn't click for me like I thought it would and my top 3 did... I really think I may have just been tired and/or off, but I couldn't get over the gut feeling.
Wayne state/RIM/DMC - advanced. Downtown Detroit, but surprisingly to me, the hospital area was nice. The technically "stand alone" hospital, which is really right next to the hospital was REALLY nice and brand new. Great gym inside, which is free for residents to use as well. IN HOUSE CALL - but extremely nice and comfortable call/resident facilities. Residents (especially chief) were very courteous and great hosts. I also really liked the attendings I interviewed with. I went to this program thinking it'd be near the bottom of my list, but I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked it and ranked it rather high. I would recommend this program, especially if you're from the area.
Programs I would be happy at:
LSU- CATEGORICAL. Great pain/procedure exposure. Do 2 months of pain as pgy1. PD really pushes to make pgy1 year as Pm&r heavy as possible. Residents all happy and seemed to work great hours. Board pass rate not as good as most above
Univ. of MN - CATEGORICAL and advanced spots. i liked the program and people a lot, but didn't seem to focus on outpt/msk/sports/spine as much as I was looking for. GREAT VA polytrauma center and exposure (that was a huge perk to this program). LOVE the twin cities (used to live there).
UTHSCSA- 8/year. Categorical. San Antonio is nice. GREAT VA polytrauma center exposure/experience. Prof. Dr. Dumitru Is World leader in EMGs. Split pgy1 and pgy2 years in half, so good Pm&r exposure 1st year... But still doing intern rotations as pgy2.
UTSW- 10/year. Advanced. Nice residents. New parkland hospital looks like it will be really nice as well. Strong procedural exposure, but not as much emphasis on teaching as a lot of the other programs.