2015 MSAR released

[moop]

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Amazing how quick you were to jump down my throat but when I laid out my case you all of a sudden stfu. Maybe you realized you're the one that needs to grow up.

Or maybe some of us actually have other priorities over having extended Internet arguments.

Oh, and don't teach me how to do math. "Math" like you did is all I do as a finance guy, and I dare say I'm better and faster than you at it. The math checks out, and you still come across as whiny.

You may be very concerned about where the field is headed justifiably, and premeds would all benefit from such perspectives, but the way you express yourself is sophomoric beyond belief. Some things just don't change with age and experience; self-expression is one of them. I just hope you don't speak like the way you write.

 

[Psai]

Why does everyone on this site try to portray themselves as "poor"? Average parental income of a 1st year med student is $100k, or at least that's the number I see thrown around here, which means most people here are not poor.

Average and median are not the same thing as you will discover by perusing the MSAR. My parent's income now skirts that level but until I got to college, my family's income was around 20k a year. It's also selection bias, you won't see people who grew up with maids posting about growing up disadvantaged.

Or maybe some of us actually have other priorities over having extended Internet arguments.

Oh, and don't teach me how to do math. "Math" like you did is all I do as a finance guy, and I dare say I'm better and faster than you at it. The math checks out, and you still come across as whiny.

You may be very concerned about where the field is headed justifiably, and premeds would all benefit from such perspectives, but the way you express yourself is sophomoric beyond belief. Some things just don't change with age and experience; self-expression is one of them. I just hope you don't speak like the way you write.

It's very easy to do the math with all the assumptions that entails and say okay your expenses are this much and you will earn this much so you will be comfortably off. There are a ton of things that make a difference that you don't account for. When your class goes to the bar after an exam, that costs money. When you do away rotations, that costs money. Taking all of the standardized tests that they tell you to costs money. Having a child costs money. Hell, just having debt costs money.

You're 21 and probably typing this all out as you sit pretty in your college dormroom. You have no idea what the real world is like. I'm barely above you and I admit that I don't have much perspective either. But do yourself a favor and when someone who has 10 years over you with commensurate experience, try to listen to what they're saying. I look at your post and all you are doing is patting yourself on the back for being good at math (no one cares) and insulting the way he writes (very obnoxious). It's an internet forum and the fact that a busy cardiology fellow is taking the time out to educate you is something you should appreciate. We're not here to read Shakespeare and analyze prose, we're here to talk about what medical school and medicine is like.

 

[Tommyguns89]

Why would we do that? We should compare ourselves to our peers. Anyone can do menial work. Not everyone can do computer programming, banking or medicine.

edit: another poster said it better than I could

 

[listener23]

Why does everyone on this site try to portray themselves as "poor"? Average parental income of a 1st year med student is $100k, or at least that's the number I see thrown around here, which means most people here are not poor.

*Opens dictionary

 

[moop]

Average of $100k means 50% above and 50 percent below that number...

-smh- No, that would be a median. Mean ≠ 50/50 above/below.

 

[IMDoc607]

Or maybe some of us actually have other priorities over having extended Internet arguments.

Oh, and don't teach me how to do math. "Math" like you did is all I do as a finance guy, and I dare say I'm better and faster than you at it. The math checks out, and you still come across as whiny.

You may be very concerned about where the field is headed justifiably, and premeds would all benefit from such perspectives, but the way you express yourself is sophomoric beyond belief. Some things just don't change with age and experience; self-expression is one of them. I just hope you don't speak like the way you write.

Sounds good....I was typing on my iPad which I find difficult plus I have been on call for 2 weeks straight for 14 days straight. Yes, that means being woken up at least 5 times a night to make decisions that could cost someone their life. Oh, can't forget placing central lines, IABP's, and emergent caths. Excuse me for not being perfect in a fatigue ridden state.

I am sure you are much better than me at math and thats good for you. However, as you see from all the medical students above, you come off as the naive and pathetic premed. I would NEVER tell you about your field in finance because I have no clue about what you do or the difficulties of your job. In fact, I frequently defend people in finance because so many people have it out for them. Well, then those same people should of chose to pursue finance not law, medicine, etc.

I called you out and you chose to ignore it after seeing the responses from other medical students....you my friend are the loser in this argument just like I would be if I was arguing with an attending.

I am done with you and while I find you pathetic I wish you the best of luck. It wasn't your disagreement that annoyed me, but your condescending and nasty tone.

Can't wait till you have those loans working 100 hours. 🙂

Have fun dude

 

[listener23]

-smh- No, that would be a median. Mean ≠ 50/50 above/below.

Yea your right. I guess a better argument would have been to say, the household average is high because of the large number of doctor (who tend to have +200k salaries) children who want to become doctors as well.

 

[Psai]

Hell yeah. But, we are all prob guilty of doing something similar at least once upon a time. I remember I thought I had med school all figured out as a pre-med...HA.

With gained introspection, now I don't try to get ahead of myself with explaining what other people go through, what their time is worth, or what they should be happy doing, etc... Because most likely I'm prob wrong (unless I've done and experienced it already myself).

So when you come into the pre-med forum, it is a given that everyone is going to have an opinion about everything -- as is natural for anyone. But, given the population, they will have zero experience with medical training. So you run the constant risk of getting pissed off when they share their opinions.

But, it's okay...because opinions change with time, with sacrifices, with experience.

So for all I know, someone that comes off has having opposite thoughts as me now might pull a 180 given enough time.

Try not to let it anger you because resident/fellow/attending insight is valuable to this subforum...if things get under your skin you might not participate as much in the future. Which would be detrimental to the community as a whole.

None of this is new insight for you; you know it all already. Just a friendly reminder, to relax, lower that BP, hell and maybe live longer 😉.

This is true, I remember thinking that 300k was a lot of money and I couldn't understand why people here were complaining but now I get it. I mean, yes it's a lot of money but there are many reasons for why compensation is high.

 

[moop]

In fact, I frequently defend people in finance because so many people have it out for them. Well, then those same people should of chose to pursue finance not law, medicine, etc.

Absolutely no clue what this is talking about. I didn't call out his writing because I was bored..some of it is just really unclear like the above.

I called you out and you chose to ignore it after seeing the responses from other medical students....you my friend are the loser in this argument just like I would be if I was arguing with an attending.

For a busy cardiology fellow, you care way too much about who "wins" an argument. This is why I told you to grow up; not all discussions/debates must conclude with a winner or loser. Again, you may be older with more experience and better in many, many aspects, but maturity is not measured with age, and your hurried posts (which probably reflect your personality much better given their rushed nature) demonstrate this fact clearly. You come onto SDN with a noble goal in mind (i.e., to educate us lowly undergrads about the medical field), and yet the intense conviction and overconfidence with which you express your opinions are hardly qualities that will garner you much credibility. If we're so immature and you're so grown-up, why dumb yourself down to our level and throw insults at us in return? You are an adult; surely you would act with more responsibility! 🙄

Also, don't call me your "friend." thx

Can't wait till you have those loans working 100 hours. 🙂

You're 21 and probably typing this all out as you sit pretty in your college dormroom. You have no idea what the real world is like. I'm barely above you and I admit that I don't have much perspective either.

All these assumptions, and I'm supposed to believe what exactly? I did a gap year working ~80/week for McKinsey being treated like **** like every other analyst. You really think I have "no idea what the real world is like"? I bring more to the table here than any med student could, so save me the lectures.

But do yourself a favor and when someone who has 10 years over you with commensurate experience, try to listen to what they're saying. I look at your post and all you are doing is patting yourself on the back for being good at math (no one cares) and insulting the way he writes (very obnoxious). It's an internet forum and the fact that a busy cardiology fellow is taking the time out to educate you is something you should appreciate.

I listened, and I think he's whiny. That's all I said in the original post (link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-msar-released.1063767/page-4#post-15098729). None of this other bull**** was brought up until Mr. Mature over here lapsed into a hissy fit after being told that he could've stopped anywhere along his education and training if he knew being a physician wasn't worth it, instead of coming back and whining about it online anonymously. It's great that he thinks he's doing a great service by "educating" us, but ITT he's not doing anything but whining about how his pay and life sucks (no one cares) with endless references and brags to how tough being a physician is (thanks, everyone knew) and how happy and privileged he is to have his job even with all the injustices he faces (no one cares). I'm sure he's posted useful things elsewhere, but this isn't it.

Wanna play kindergarten and compare maturity? I can state my opinion of him without having to resort to childish attacks like he did (i.e., calling people "pathetic" and announcing that he has "won" a nonexistent, self-provoked argument). He may be better at juggling a family with work and all that, but in terms of maturity, he's demonstrated very well that he ain't all that.

BTW hot shot doc, I'd watch the slurs with many MS2 mods pretty stressed about boards right now.

 

[Psai]

It's hard to understand before you actually go through the training but you'll find out how hard it is to find out what you want to do. Once you start, you're pretty much stuck because of the debt. I'm sitting on around 95k and I'm only halfway through. It would be at least 40k more if my parents weren't helping me. If I left school, this debt would hang on me and I'd be hard pressed to pay it back. Being a resident and a fellow means that you're spending 60-80 hours a week doing all of the work with little thanks and little pay. You don't actually know how difficult something is without actually experiencing it. To you, 60 hours a week is just a number. But to a doctor, that means sleepless nights of people actively trying to die on you and nurses paging you at 3 am. I can barely focus if I don't have a solid 7-8 hours of sleep a night. We do care because he has had experience and he's sharing it with us.

It's valuable to have perspective from someone who's actively engaged in patient care and can show us a little about what their life is like. It's nice and well to pretend that we're going to save the world and provide free care for the poor but then you learn what medicine actually entails. You come in wanting to cure cancer and then you find yourself as an intern on the phone for the 40th minute with nursing homes trying to find placement for your gomer patient.

 

[IMDoc607]

Absolutely no clue what this is talking about. I didn't call out his writing because I was bored..some of it is just really unclear like the above.

How is that unclear. Society does not like people who work on wall street or in finance. My response is thats because they are jealous and to stop complaining because they had the same opportunity to go into finance. Leave those that are successful in finance alone. Just because they make a lot of money and you don't doesn't make them bad.....its jealousy

For a busy cardiology fellow, you care way too much about who "wins" an argument. This is why I told you to grow up; not all discussions/debates must conclude with a winner or loser. Again, you may be older with more experience and better in many, many aspects, but maturity is not measured with age, and your hurried posts (which probably reflect your personality much better given their rushed nature) demonstrate this fact clearly. You come onto SDN with a noble goal in mind (i.e., to educate us lowly undergrads about the medical field), and yet the intense conviction and overconfidence with which you express your opinions are hardly qualities that will garner you much credibility. If we're so immature and you're so grown-up, why dumb yourself down to our level and throw insults at us in return? You are an adult; surely you would act with more responsibility! 🙄

You told me to grow up before I said I won the argument....which what I meant was you are in no position to tell us how to feel about medicine and its current state. I don't care to educate you at all. I am laying out the facts and my opinions. If you don't like them then tough.

Also, don't call me your "friend." thx

Sarcasm genius....and its people like you why I usually don't come into these premed forums. People like you make me dislike premeds. "I just want to help people I don't care about money." haha.....yea right good luck

All these assumptions, and I'm supposed to believe what exactly? I did a gap year working ~80/week for McKinsey being treated like **** like every other analyst. You really think I have "no idea what the real world is like"? I bring more to the table here than any med student could, so save me the lectures.

Congrats.....a gap year as in 1 year. Try doing 8 years of them with 24hour calls caring for people literally trying to die on you all 24 hours. And NO you do NOT bring more to the table here than any med student can. You bring NOTHING to the table besides your stupid gap year. Shall we drop at your feet because you did a gap year and probably failed in finance now using med school as a fall back? The finance world and medicine are not connected....so again you bring ZERO to the table. Get over yourself.

I listened, and I think he's whiny. That's all I said in the original post (link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-msar-released.1063767/page-4#post-15098729). None of this other bullcrap was brought up until Mr. Mature over here lapsed into a hissy fit after being told that he could've stopped anywhere along his education and training if he knew being a physician wasn't worth it, instead of coming back and whining about it online anonymously. It's great that he thinks he's doing a great service by "educating" us, but ITT he's not doing anything but whining about how his pay and life sucks (no one cares) with endless references and brags to how tough being a physician is (thanks, everyone knew) and how happy and privileged he is to have his job even with all the injustices he faces (no one cares). I'm sure he's posted useful things elsewhere, but this isn't it.

Was stating fact that you will hear throughout your whole time in training from attendings..not just from me or SDN. If you think I am whiny, oh man you are in for a rude awakening. Attendings will complain all day and every day. If you don't like it or can't handle it then tough $hit and GTFO.

Wanna play kindergarten and compare maturity? I can state my opinion of him without having to resort to childish attacks like he did (i.e., calling people "pathetic" and announcing that he has "won" a nonexistent, self-provoked argument). He may be better at juggling a family with work and all that, but in terms of maturity, he's demonstrated very well that he ain't all that.

I am not the only person who has called you pathetic or delusional. You do not realize that you are out of your league here in this discussion regarding medicine...not the MSAR.

BTW hot shot doc, I'd watch the slurs with many MS2 mods pretty stressed about boards right now.

Don't care....I am sure any MS2 mod reading this has the same opinion of you the rest of us do. Btw, don't call me a hot shot. Thanks

 

[milski]

On double counting applicants with multiple acceptances:
I sent an email to AAMC to ask how the national median is calculated. The answer is that "all accepted applicants are counted just once to derive the data for national median gpa and MCAT scores."

 

[Boolean]

On double counting applicants with multiple acceptances:
I sent an email to AAMC to ask how the national median is calculated. The answer is that "all accepted applicants are counted just once to derive the data for national median gpa and MCAT scores."

Oh my. That certainly does change things up a bit. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[sazerac]

On double counting applicants with multiple acceptances:
I sent an email to AAMC to ask how the national median is calculated. The answer is that "all accepted applicants are counted just once to derive the data for national median gpa and MCAT scores."

OMG. So the proverbial guy who scores a 40 on the MCAT and gets 20 acceptances is only counted ONCE in the "accepted median is 33" statistic.

Q: How many of the roughly 20,000 students entering MD schools have an MCAT less than 33?

A: Less than half of them.

Pre-allo is officially doomed.