[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

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Girly X said:
How do we know if a program accepts 4 letters? Or is everyone just assigning 4 to all?


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Some (many) programs specify exactly what they want on their program website. If they don't specify anything in particular then just send all 4.


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Girly X said:
How do we know if a program accepts 4 letters? Or is everyone just assigning 4 to all?


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I assigned 3 to everyone. Seems like most EM programs want 3, and the lone program I applied to that wants 4 seems to not actually care that much per other people on the internet.
 
Yeah I think everybody is going to be curious to see whether the numbers are really much worse this year than past years.

For instance, there was a lot of talk last year about how much more competitive it became in Emergency Medicine. However, there were only 85 unmatched U.S. seniors and 1,362 matched U.S. seniors (people that only ranked one specialty) for a match rate of roughly 94% which was not very different from the previous 5 years of matches.

Program directors are saying that they have more applicants than usual this year. Do we anticipate that this year we had a sudden influx of people attempting to match into EM and thus we will see a drop in the match rate? It will be interesting to see.
 
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How are DO students doing with invites?


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I just want to throw it out there...

I have been following the EM specific thread for about 4 years. Every single year, there is a huge worry about early interviews. Every single year, somebody comes out saying their "advisor told them this is an uber-ultra-competitive year."

Interviews will continue to come. I completely agree with doing whatever you think you can to maximize your chances of matching. But it's not the end of the world yet.
 
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I agree with Wildcat. I think people are applying to way too many places and accepting way too many interviews because of their advisors (which is understandable because who would want to take that chance?). I think later on in the year, people will start cancelling interviews once they realize it's actually not that bad. That's why you see these "waves" of interview invites that will continue rolling through.
 
Goose Egg said:
still doesnt excuse people continuing to accept once they get to 12. it's understandable if your #1 or #2 suddenly opens up, but lets be honest that's not whats happening based on previous threads.

in reality = "i probably won't rank this in my top 12 but it might be fun to visit detroit and you never know gotta keep my options open"
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I agree. Total honesty, I interviewed at 15 during my cycle. Total waste of time and money it turned out. However it's pretty difficult to gauge how certain to be during the process. the same way people get neurotic about only having a few interviews at this time in the season, people get neurotic about only having 12 interviews total. Everyone knows a story about a friend of a friend who matched at #13, even though statistically it's not something we should worry about.

I guess my ultimate point is, we are all neurotic at this point in our careers, and this neuroticism is totally unwarranted and also unlikely to help at all.
 
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I talked to a program coordinator on the phone about where I sat on a waitlist and it was in the 20's. He said "don't worry though, for that date last year we cycled through about 30 applicants cancelling so there's a great chance you will get a spot." Point is, like has been said on here a lot, there's gonna be more going out for sure.
 
I'm not sure if it helps at all, but since we are all neurotic and like numbers, some of the PDs at ACEP mentioned that if you have 7 interviews by the end of Oct/early Nov you are doing great and will be just fine.
 
Goose Egg said:
still doesnt excuse people continuing to accept once they get to 12. it's understandable if your #1 or #2 suddenly opens up, but lets be honest that's not whats happening based on previous threads.

in reality = "i probably won't rank this in my top 12 but it might be fun to visit detroit and you never know gotta keep my options open"
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Well, those are some expensive tours for just "keeping options open," but I know people who are holding on to very good interview spots at places tehy would never ever go to (because family and ties elsewhere) , but it;s kind of like their little trophy they tell people about. Pretty wack.
 
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medmedman said:
Is it wishful thinking to assume that they haven't sent out all interview invites yet? Currently sitting at 5 and I don't exactly like those odds as my final number...
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KinesiologyNerd said:
People need to get over this magic number of 12 bugaboo. Different people have different circumstances.
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Indeed, the U.S. applicant fill rate : total spots ratio has been consistent since at least 2007, probably further but I didn't want to look more (see table 7 and others) (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/resultsanddata2011.pdf) (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2016.pdf)

In addition the match rate has been consistent. People have been saying it's getting more competitive but there is no hard data proving that point. Numbers are increasing across the board (haha), but people are still matching at the same rate. All that this fear mongering has done is increase the number of interviews an individual applicant will take. This will most likely shift the matching data to say most people with 12+ interviews matched.... and more people who went on 12+, 15+, 18+ interviews.... but there will be more people (proportionately still the same overall) who match with less interviews.

Of course not matching is a very real concern, but people match with 1 interview. If you have applied realistically to EM and think you're a good fit, there is a place for you!

To reiterate - nothing in any of the data from the past 10 years indicates that this year will be different, except for some reason many more applications have been sent out and a desire to increase the average number of interviews on which one goes.
 
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To reiterate nothing n any of the data from the past 10 years indicates that this year will be different said:
Now I can go to sleep comfortably. Good night:claps:
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knrob said:
To the people replying with stories of average or below stats and doing well, I think you're missing the point of what we are trying to say.
We aren't saying you have to have great stats to do well. If anything, we're saying that how well you do is more up chance than skill.
Yes, you need to work your ass off, but that doesn't guarantee good SLOEs.
And when your odds of success have more to do with luck than objective measures, thats a broken system.
Sure, some people still work hard and do well. But that doesn't mean the system works. That's like having a debate about the safety of a new medication where some people died as after taking it but then the defense pulls up the files of all the people who didn't die and says "see, its safe".
As for applying broadly, anyone who applied to over 50 programs applied broadly. There just aren't that many uber competitive programs out there.
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Its very easy to apply to over 50 programs and still not apply broadly.

This is likely the case for many applicants with 240+ steps, top 25% class, and solid SLOEs with low interview numbers at this point.

Here's an example:

2 applicants from Chicago

Applicant A with 5 interviews:

-UChicago, Northwestern, Cook, Christ, Resurrection, MCW, Michigan, Indiana, Cincy, Pitt, MGH, BIDMC, BMC, Yale, NYP/Cornell, NYU, Sinai, Christiana, Maryland, Hopkins, Penn, Georgetown, GWU, UNC, Duke, Carolinas, Emory, ORMC, USF, UTH, Baylor, UTSW, UT Austin, Denver, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Maricopa, Las Vegas, UCSD, Irvine, USC, Harbor, Olive View, Stanford, Highland, UCSF, Davis, OHSU, UW.

Applicant B with 15 interviews:

-UChicago, Northwestern, Cook, Christ, Resurrection, UIC, MCW, UW-Madison, Regions, Hennepin, Mayo, Iowa, Kansas, UMKC, WashU, SLU, MSU-GR, MSU-Lansing, Michigan, Beaumont, Henry Ford, Receiving, Indiana, Ohio State, Case Western, MetroHealth, Pitt, Kentucky, Louisville, Vandy, UVA, VCU, GWU, Georgetown, Hopkins, Maryland, Penn, Jefferson, Newark, Cooper, Sinai, SLR, NYU, Albany, Stony brook, UConn, UMass, Baystate, BMC, MGH.
 
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eh my list matches column B, albeit with some regional differences, except i also spent unnecessary cash on applying to most of column A as well.

was told that i have a solid app/solid sloes, only difference is not top 25% of class...good spread and diversity of apps....should match no problem....heard back from 0 of these programs. it took several hundred dollars in extra apps to finally get some invites from very new programs.

things are different.
 
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This whole process is like a crap shoot. for the past few years it's been the same trend. no one can predict who gets interviews and who doesn't
 
Welker said:
This whole process is like a crap shoot. for the past few years it's been the same trend. no one can predict who gets interviews and who doesn't
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This is fundamentally not true. You describe "the same trend" which has turned out to be (for the past few years) that an overwhelmingly high match rate. We can all predict who will get interviews and go on to match; there is certainly variability in how many students get their first choice, but almost everyone will match, despite how terrible things seem right now.
 
Saw a lot of "looks like you need to be AOA and 250 to match EM" earlier in this thread.

There is hope. I'm at 10 interviews out of 80 applied. Failed a class M1 and had to repeat the year. Bottom quartile of my class. 220 STEP I. No STEP II. A lot of passion for and experience in EM. Follow your dreams. I am sure there will be more movement and spots will open up for everyone
 
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alpinism said:
Its very easy to apply to over 50 programs and still not apply broadly.

This is likely the case for many applicants with 240+ steps, top 25% class, and solid SLOEs with low interview numbers at this point.

Here's an example:

2 applicants from Chicago

Applicant A with 5 interviews:

-UChicago, Northwestern, Cook, Christ, Resurrection, MCW, Michigan, Indiana, Cincy, Pitt, MGH, BIDMC, BMC, Yale, NYP/Cornell, NYU, Sinai, Christiana, Maryland, Hopkins, Penn, Georgetown, GWU, UNC, Duke, Carolinas, Emory, ORMC, USF, UTH, Baylor, UTSW, UT Austin, Denver, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Maricopa, Las Vegas, UCSD, Irvine, USC, Harbor, Olive View, Stanford, Highland, UCSF, Davis, OHSU, UW.

Applicant B with 15 interviews:

-UChicago, Northwestern, Cook, Christ, Resurrection, UIC, MCW, UW-Madison, Regions, Hennepin, Mayo, Iowa, Kansas, UMKC, WashU, SLU, MSU-GR, MSU-Lansing, Michigan, Beaumont, Henry Ford, Receiving, Indiana, Ohio State, Case Western, MetroHealth, Pitt, Kentucky, Louisville, Vandy, UVA, VCU, GWU, Georgetown, Hopkins, Maryland, Penn, Jefferson, Newark, Cooper, Sinai, SLR, NYU, Albany, Stony brook, UConn, UMass, Baystate, BMC, MGH.
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True. People think they highly increase their chances by applying to 50 instead of 20, but when they are all top programs, your chances are hardly improved unless you are a "top" applicant or you are from that specific state or rotated there. Looking back I overestimated myself and only applied to 5 real safeties. If you are from Chicago and apply to all CA programs without having rotated there, your 250 means squat in a sea of 250s when there are people with average scores who are from the area, know 2nd languages (huge in California, NY, Texas), and have strong ties there or rotated there. Same goes for California people trying to move to NY, if you have no connections there, your scores don't really mean much or your 10000 extracurriculars for that matter. So, unfortunately it's hard to know these things of how many safeties vs reaches are ideal. There is zero transparency in this process. IF you are from a mid-US state and apply everywhere in your sttae plus some reaches and safeties, then youa should be pretty good. Issue is when you are from California, Chicago, or NY and all super amazing applicants from everywhere are applying to the very same programs you are applying to making it sueper competitive. EM is NOT super competitive as a specialty, the issue is that we all apparently want to go to the same programs in major cities. How many people did NOT apply to UCSF, UCLA, Heneppin, Emory, or Cook county for example?
 
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Looking through last years thread, it appears that there was a slow trickle of interview invites that went from 11/1 all the way through mid January. There was no real second wave, according to posts on the various threads.

Now, there are a lot of factors at play here:

1) Every PD that people have posted about this year has said that they were overwhelmed with apps. PDs at ACEP said that they still have a lot of interviews to dish out. It doesn't seem like there has been a lot of new interview offers in the past two weeks, so they could still be behind where they were at this time last year re: interviews.
2) I'm not convinced that the posts on last year's threads (or this year's threads) are really that indicative of the amount of movement we see at any given program. It is well known that the posters on sdn are more likely to be on the more competitive side, meaning more likely to get that first round of interviews. This also means that they are less likely to get off wait lists, because they already have invites at those places anyway. Additionally, they are less likely to apply to those less competitive programs that see the highest wait list movement due to those programs being people's safety schools.
3) There is also the factor that it's less exciting to post about getting an interview 6 weeks after the first round was sent out. Last year's thread was full of posts by people saying that they had gotten off of three wait lists the week prior, I expect similar things from our group of applicants.
4) There were people complaining last year about hearing about other applicants that were going on 20 interviews or holding onto 30 interview offers. It was met with the same level of annoyance by last year's crowd.
5) There seem to be the same general level of panic from last year's group.

I really have no idea what any of this actually means, I just thought I would let the people know.
 
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theWUbear said:
Saw a lot of "looks like you need to be AOA and 250 to match EM" earlier in this thread.

There is hope. I'm at 10 interviews out of 80 applied. Failed a class M1 and had to repeat the year. Bottom quartile of my class. 220 STEP I. No STEP II. A lot of passion for and experience in EM. Follow your dreams. I am sure there will be more movement and spots will open up for everyone
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You got 10 interviews, because you are from WashU - the best medical school in the country. The prestige of your school made up for your lackluster performance. I know 2 people in my school (state school in southwest) with around your step 1 and late Step 2ck - and you know how many interview invites they got so far? Both less than 5.
 
Caltechstud said:
You got 10 interviews, because you are from WashU - the best medical school in the country. The prestige of your school made up for your lackluster performance.
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I have an even worse Step 1 and I got to a school of middling ranking in the Midwest. We have interviews presumably because of our SLOEs and program selection. I've spoken to many PDs and institutional prestige has never once been a topic of application discussion. I don't doubt that it exists, especially for certain fields, but EM is more insulated from that than many others.
 
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doggydog said:
Looking through last years thread, it appears that there was a slow trickle of interview invites that went from 11/1 all the way through mid January. There was no real second wave, according to posts on the various threads.

Now, there are a lot of factors at play here:

1) Every PD that people have posted about this year has said that they were overwhelmed with apps. PDs at ACEP said that they still have a lot of interviews to dish out. It doesn't seem like there has been a lot of new interview offers in the past two weeks, so they could still be behind where they were at this time last year re: interviews.

I've emailed a few places and been told that all slots are full and everyone else is now on (silent) waitlist. One place flat out told me they are no longer sending invites for the season.

2) I'm not convinced that the posts on last year's threads (or this year's threads) are really that indicative of the amount of movement we see at any given program. It is well known that the posters on sdn are more likely to be on the more competitive side, meaning more likely to get that first round of interviews. This also means that they are less likely to get off wait lists, because they already have invites at those places anyway. Additionally, they are less likely to apply to those less competitive programs that see the highest wait list movement due to those programs being people's safety schools.

from what I see, people with <10 stayed at <10. mostly unsexy/boring apps with 240s and hp

3) There is also the factor that it's less exciting to post about getting an interview 6 weeks after the first round was sent out. Last year's thread was full of posts by people saying that they had gotten off of three wait lists the week prior, I expect similar things from our group of applicants.

Yeah...in January. Christmas break seems like the time to drop invites

4) There were people complaining last year about hearing about other applicants that were going on 20 interviews or holding onto 30 interview offers. It was met with the same level of annoyance by last year's crowd.

Eh mixed bag

5) There seem to be the same general level of panic from last year's group.

Feels like more. Also i gotta say i was told I had a good mix of programs (left out about 10 places in my home region in the list i Sent to ppl here) and solid app...to the point where I decided to add on 20 reaches on top...no replies from my home program when I told them about my situation now


I really have no idea what any of this actually means, I just thought I would let the people know.
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CliveStaples said:
I have an even worse Step 1 and I got to a school of middling ranking in the Midwest. We have interviews presumably because of our SLOEs and program selection. I've spoken to many PDs and institutional prestige has never once been a topic of application discussion. I don't doubt that it exists, especially for certain fields, but EM is more insulated from that than many others.
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I don't know you - but I bet you have either SLOEs where you were ranked top 1/3, or you have exceptional ECs and life experience. An average joe with average stats & SLOE cannot hope on getting much interviews.
 
Caltechstud said:
You got 10 interviews, because you are from WashU - the best medical school in the country. The prestige of your school made up for your lackluster performance. I know 2 people in my school (state school in southwest) with around your step 1 and late Step 2ck - and you know how many interview invites they got so far? Both less than 5.
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I'm at an unremarkable state school on the east coast. I went to WashU for undergrad. I have 1 midwest interview
 
I know there's at least one reapp on here...would any of you like to chime in about what you wish you had done differently/what you're doing now
 
We have to get in interview mode guys and often when one has anxiety or negative attitude it shows physically. What I am saying is stop fretting about things you can't control and go own your interviews. Even if you have 1 interview, that's all you need to match.
 
...
 
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I withdrew my application from about 20 programs and cancelled a handful of interviews. Good luck peeps
 
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Testing

emergency.jpg
 

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I have two interviews that I really want to go on, but currently, can't because they are scheduled on top of each other and can't be moved..... should I email programs? Any advice?
 
EM&Dogs said:
I did, but there were not alot of options and I am unsure if spots open up from the waitlist often...
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This early in the year I think your chances of getting moved off the list are pretty high. Can't hurt to try. Interview broker lets you keep your scheduled date while on the wait list for another.


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I could only find one thread on this from 2014. Thought I'd ask here. When is it time to apply to prelim programs as a backup? AMG with 8 interviews + 1 waitlist

BUT 3 of those interviews were really top-tier places where I rotated and did fine but didn't honor, so realistically more like 5 invites.
 
David Mitchell said:
I could only find one thread on this from 2014. Thought I'd ask here. When is it time to apply to prelim programs as a backup? AMG with 8 interviews + 1 waitlist

BUT 3 of those interviews were really top-tier places where I rotated and did fine but didn't honor, so realistically more like 5 invites.
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I guess I could be in the minority here, but I think you might be overthinking this.

You have 8 interviews. Based on prior years that is likely in line with ~90% chance of matching even with no other interviews (seems unlikely as it isn't even November yet).

Not honoring doesn't mean people didn't like you, and the fact you went there for a month demonstrates both genuine interest and means they are a lot safer with you then some random person they meet for a few hours.

Stop the crazy
 
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David Mitchell said:
I could only find one thread on this from 2014. Thought I'd ask here. When is it time to apply to prelim programs as a backup? AMG with 8 interviews + 1 waitlist

BUT 3 of those interviews were really top-tier places where I rotated and did fine but didn't honor, so realistically more like 5 invites.
Click to expand...

Agree with above response re: charting outcomes and the amount of turnover with ii's left to go
 
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doggydog said:
2017 ERAS prelim data:
https://www.aamc.org/download/358760/data/residency.xlsx

Average applications/applicant up to 48.6 from 44.2 last year

Average applications received by programs up to 731 from 658 last year

Expected.
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For those of you graphically inclined, see below (major hat-tip to doggydog for posting the link). Interesting that there seems to be an inflection point around 2010 in terms of the number of applications per program and per person that is not mirrored in the total number of applications. (Yes, I know the scales are different, etc.)
 

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