2017-2018 Nephrology Fellowship Application Cycle

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I have heard UM/Jackson is kinda of malignant: overworked fellows, etc. I did not apply there but if you interview, definitely reach out to the fellows.
As far as ranking the programs, I am personally looking at the overall "culture", the opportunities for future employment in the area, the city and what it has to offer. What are you looking for in those programs?

Thanks for the reply ... im looking to see lots of cases, good balance between service and academics, no malignant programs for sure
.. that kinda sucks UM has that reputation since i am in south florida and the only other option is the Cleveland Clinic however very small program and
fellows only see insured patients. Small transplant program, not a trauma center, very small 155 bed hospital. Otherwise very friendly and lots of attending one on one time.

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Thanks for the reply ... im looking to see lots of cases, good balance between service and academics, no malignant programs for sure
.. that kinda sucks UM has that reputation since i am in south florida and the only other option is the Cleveland Clinic however very small program and
fellows only see insured patients. Small transplant program, not a trauma center, very small 155 bed hospital. Otherwise very friendly and lots of attending one on one time.
I wouldn't go for a 155 bed hospital/ no trauma center despite the one on one attending time. Your clinical training will be limited.
 
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Not a nephrology applicant but interesting tidbit:

while interviewing at SUNY Downstate in NYC for another specialty, I learned that the ICU fellows there can do an IR elective for up to 3 months. Although primarily they do chest tubes and the such, one of their ICU fellows said he was certified on tunneled HD catheters for long term use. Further he was asked if he wanted to learn other procedures. I can only imagine if they would teach fistulograms or thrombectomies.

Anyway apparently their renal program has been empty of fellows for a bit now.
Not surprised SUNY Downstate has no fellows. I interviewed there and got the sense it was crazy busy. Even work is not an issue given you will get clinical exposure but they had a weird rule that you had to be in the hospital the entire time dialysis is going on. So if someone calls you with consult for urgent dialysis at midnight basically your whole night is screwed as if you order a 3 1/2 run and nurse get here at 1 am you will be here till 5 am. Lots of nephrology programs have spent too many years treating fellows as scut monkeys / cheap labor and in current job market no one's gonna do that for nephrology.
 
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Not a nephrology applicant but interesting tidbit:

while interviewing at SUNY Downstate in NYC for another specialty, I learned that the ICU fellows there can do an IR elective for up to 3 months. Although primarily they do chest tubes and the such, one of their ICU fellows said he was certified on tunneled HD catheters for long term use. Further he was asked if he wanted to learn other procedures. I can only imagine if they would teach fistulograms or thrombectomies.

Anyway apparently their renal program has been empty of fellows for a bit now.
Its gonna be difficult for an ICU doc to justify doing thrombectomies/fistulograms. They are a relatively safe procedure as you are working on the venous circulation but still. ICU is busy enough as it is. A renal / ICU doc could justify.
Interventional nephrology is not an easy speciality to work in. What my interventional attending told me is that you need about 600-700 dialysis patients to have an interventional nephrology physician. An average nephrologist has 50-75 patients so go figure. Even then you will be doing it part time and always be competing with vascular surgery and IR who will also be advantaged by having a IR/surgical suite at their disposal and you will be competing for OR time.
 
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While reviewing programs with my colleague who is applying for renal, the Weill Cornell Presbyterian Hospital renal program's website has the background information on their fellows. I don't think I see a single AMG on there. (This is not an AMG vs FMG/IMG debate; just commenting about the lack of their in house candidates staying as well as lack of overall AMGs going to even a top flight academic renal institution)
 
While reviewing programs with my colleague who is applying for renal, the Weill Cornell Presbyterian Hospital renal program's website has the background information on their fellows. I don't think I see a single AMG on there. (This is not an AMG vs FMG/IMG debate; just commenting about the lack of their in house candidates staying as well as lack of overall AMGs going to even a top flight academic renal institution)

Because of the way things are currently with nephrology, even if the institution is a "top flight academic renal institution", that does not make the program really "competitive". UCSD, UCSF, UCLA and Stanford are way more competitive and attractive than Hopkins and Harvard....and definitely more than Columbia and Cornell as well.
 
While reviewing programs with my colleague who is applying for renal, the Weill Cornell Presbyterian Hospital renal program's website has the background information on their fellows. I don't think I see a single AMG on there. (This is not an AMG vs FMG/IMG debate; just commenting about the lack of their in house candidates staying as well as lack of overall AMGs going to even a top flight academic renal institution)

Why would an amg unless he/she loves kidney disease more than him or herself take it...low pay ( hurts when there is debt), NO lifestyle!..poor jobs.Also most practice is full of imgs( India/Pakistan) who are experts at exploiting new grads( even if amg) as they know the system very well
 
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for anyone who wants a scoop on Northwell programs (Staten Island, NSLIJ, Lenox Hill), give me a PM for some insider details before you put on rank list.
 
What is the current job prospect for nephrology? I have read the previous posts and all of the poor outlook.
I know young attendings on faculty at large academic institution who make no more than $120K. Granted, they have a light schedule and potential for increasing RVU once they develop an ESRD patient base.
Also, there is this one job friends of mine are offered from Fresenius in Alaska for $500,000 but have to live in Anchorage. But it seems most people tell me there is always some junior attending private practice job for 170K and minimal raises for 3 years and "promise" to be partner but they are working as hard as generating 300K worth of RVU for the senior partners to take advantage of.
On the other hand, also seen private renal groups who have their own infusion center and have a very large number of ESRD patients.

Possibly PMD/Renal is a viable option? Avoid seeing ESRD patients (unless they are your own and you have known them for many years) and just see office patients over and over. Maybe get certified for renal/bladder ultrasound via ASDIN and then use the limited scan billling code for extra procedure? Other procedures are Epo injection, vaccination administration? Very good CPT billing codes for preventative exams, tobacco cessation, alcohol cessation, etc... as PMD.
Trick is probably no employer will give you that set up.
 
Well, already finished all my interviews! Hope u guys had a good cycle as well! Found one of the programs surprisingly attractive with excellent research opportunities in my area of interest. I may be shuffling the rank list a bit... I am debating that first choice again!
 
I'm done with interviews too. I was surprised by how different programs are and how much they've changed over the last few years.

Still debating my top 3 for a research track. Will have to do some soul searching.
 
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What is the current job prospect for nephrology? I have read the previous posts and all of the poor outlook.
I know young attendings on faculty at large academic institution who make no more than $120K. Granted, they have a light schedule and potential for increasing RVU once they develop an ESRD patient base.
Also, there is this one job friends of mine are offered from Fresenius in Alaska for $500,000 but have to live in Anchorage. But it seems most people tell me there is always some junior attending private practice job for 170K and minimal raises for 3 years and "promise" to be partner but they are working as hard as generating 300K worth of RVU for the senior partners to take advantage of.
On the other hand, also seen private renal groups who have their own infusion center and have a very large number of ESRD patients.

Possibly PMD/Renal is a viable option? Avoid seeing ESRD patients (unless they are your own and you have known them for many years) and just see office patients over and over. Maybe get certified for renal/bladder ultrasound via ASDIN and then use the limited scan billling code for extra procedure? Other procedures are Epo injection, vaccination administration? Very good CPT billing codes for preventative exams, tobacco cessation, alcohol cessation, etc... as PMD.
Trick is probably no employer will give you that set up.

The 2017 survey of renal fellows [check out ASN's website] came out a few weeks ago and it looks like job opportunities have improved somewhat.

The percent of USMGs who indicated “no jobs” or “very few jobs” in the national job market dropped from 13.1% in 2014 to 1.8% in 2017, and from 35.1% to 9.3% for the local job market.

Fellows’ anticipated salaries in 2017 were higher than in previous years; the median anticipated salary for all demographic groups (by IMG status and sex) was between $180,000 and $189,999, with a mean anticipated salary of $187,000.

Having said that >30% of respondents still said they had changed plans because of limited job oppprtunities.
 
The 2017 survey of renal fellows [check out ASN's website] came out a few weeks ago and it looks like job opportunities have improved somewhat.

The percent of USMGs who indicated “no jobs” or “very few jobs” in the national job market dropped from 13.1% in 2014 to 1.8% in 2017, and from 35.1% to 9.3% for the local job market.

Fellows’ anticipated salaries in 2017 were higher than in previous years; the median anticipated salary for all demographic groups (by IMG status and sex) was between $180,000 and $189,999, with a mean anticipated salary of $187,000.

Having said that >30% of respondents still said they had changed plans because of limited job oppprtunities.

Fake news...it’s just a relative shade of grey...it’s still terrible
 
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What is the current job prospect for nephrology? I have read the previous posts and all of the poor outlook.
I know young attendings on faculty at large academic institution who make no more than $120K. Granted, they have a light schedule and potential for increasing RVU once they develop an ESRD patient base.
Also, there is this one job friends of mine are offered from Fresenius in Alaska for $500,000 but have to live in Anchorage. But it seems most people tell me there is always some junior attending private practice job for 170K and minimal raises for 3 years and "promise" to be partner but they are working as hard as generating 300K worth of RVU for the senior partners to take advantage of.
On the other hand, also seen private renal groups who have their own infusion center and have a very large number of ESRD patients.

Possibly PMD/Renal is a viable option? Avoid seeing ESRD patients (unless they are your own and you have known them for many years) and just see office patients over and over. Maybe get certified for renal/bladder ultrasound via ASDIN and then use the limited scan billling code for extra procedure? Other procedures are Epo injection, vaccination administration? Very good CPT billing codes for preventative exams, tobacco cessation, alcohol cessation, etc... as PMD.
Trick is probably no employer will give you that set up.

From an NYC-centric perspective the job market is pretty stable, maybe even opening up a bit, but the pay is still rough. As noted above, your starting salary offers will differ considerably based on geography because of the oversupply of nephro grads driving down salaries in the metropolitan areas. Just an FYI, all of my job interviews came from word of mouth. I was harassed by so many recruiters after i posted my resume online, and not a single one was able to produce an interview for me. I think I said this in last years post, but I will reiterate because I think it is critical - train in the geographic area that you want to settle in.

In terms of developing your practice, you should understand the breakdown of the typical nephrologist's revenue. Typically, 30-40% of net revenue comes from ESRD patients, with the average nephrologist managing 50-75 ESRD patients, 30-40% from inpatient and 25-30% from clinic (assuming no "passive" income). But you need to consider costs. Inpatient and dialysis referrals have minimal overhead; all you really need is a car to get you around and someone doing your billing. For your clinic, additionally, you need a secretary, nurse/ma, and a physical office. Your margin will be much much smaller in the clinic. Most nephrologists will need to hustle and see patients in the hospital, at clinic and dialysis. The more senior nephrologists can transition to an outpatient-based practice if they become really established in the community, but you would never give up your ESRD patients from a revenue perspective. By that point you should have racked up a medical directorship or two which brings in a lot of supplemental income as well.

Many solo practitioners and newer groups are forced to work as PMD / hospitalist + renal because they have not established a referral base and they can't cover overhead without revenue from primary care. I interviewed with two groups who historically had very active PMD roles in the community, but they were both very happy and proud to have transitioned to 100% nephrology. So I think the goal is ultimately to develop a referral base and transition to nephro only. Just take a look at the most recent satisfaction surveys for primary care, 66% of your time spent on paperwork, are you kidding me??

The biggest mistake you can make after graduating fellowship is to accept a position that works you like crazy for 3 years only to get stiffed on partnership and are forced out of the state because the restrictive covenant prohibits you from working in 20+ mile radius. One of these groups asked to interview me for a position but I politely declined because of the warnings that came from my attendings. Once again, I benefited substantially from training locally. There's no way a program director from Cali or Texas would have known which private groups in the NYC area had a reputation for churning nephro fellows.

So, you join a decent group who staggers your ownership from years 4-6 and you become a full partner in year 7 after graduating. How much will you be making? Dont look at these ridiculous numbers from medscape. Part-time academic nephrologists are getting grouped in with private nephrologists with ownership stakes in dialysis, vascular access and private transplant centers working 65+ hours weekly. I think medscape generally receives 30-40 responses from nephrologists. Try to get your hands on the MGMA survey. I believe they were able to survey 400+ nephrologists last year. They distinguish income based on private vs academic and much more accurately reflects your likely income once you make partner. The payout comes much later than if you became a hospitalist (which is immediately after residency), but it does eventually come if you can survive fellowship and maneuver in the minefield of private groups looking to take advantage of you.
 
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From an NYC-centric perspective the job market is pretty stable, maybe even opening up a bit, but the pay is still rough. As noted above, your starting salary offers will differ considerably based on geography because of the oversupply of nephro grads driving down salaries in the metropolitan areas. Just an FYI, all of my job interviews came from word of mouth. I was harassed by so many recruiters after i posted my resume online, and not a single one was able to produce an interview for me. I think I said this in last years post, but I will reiterate because I think it is critical - train in the geographic area that you want to settle in.

In terms of developing your practice, you should understand the breakdown of the typical nephrologist's revenue. Typically, 30-40% of net revenue comes from ESRD patients, with the average nephrologist managing 50-75 ESRD patients, 30-40% from inpatient and 25-30% from clinic (assuming no "passive" income). But you need to consider costs. Inpatient and dialysis referrals have minimal overhead; all you really need is a car to get you around and someone doing your billing. For your clinic, additionally, you need a secretary, nurse/ma, and a physical office. Your margin will be much much smaller in the clinic. Most nephrologists will need to hustle and see patients in the hospital, at clinic and dialysis. The more senior nephrologists can transition to an outpatient-based practice if they become really established in the community, but you would never give up your ESRD patients from a revenue perspective. By that point you should have racked up a medical directorship or two which brings in a lot of supplemental income as well.

Many solo practitioners and newer groups are forced to work as PMD / hospitalist + renal because they have not established a referral base and they can't cover overhead without revenue from primary care. I interviewed with two groups who historically had very active PMD roles in the community, but they were both very happy and proud to have transitioned to 100% nephrology. So I think the goal is ultimately to develop a referral base and transition to nephro only. Just take a look at the most recent satisfaction surveys for primary care, 66% of your time spent on paperwork, are you kidding me??

The biggest mistake you can make after graduating fellowship is to accept a position that works you like crazy for 3 years only to get stiffed on partnership and are forced out of the state because the restrictive covenant prohibits you from working in 20+ mile radius. One of these groups asked to interview me for a position but I politely declined because of the warnings that came from my attendings. Once again, I benefited substantially from training locally. There's no way a program director from Cali or Texas would have known which private groups in the NYC area had a reputation for churning nephro fellows.

So, you join a decent group who staggers your ownership from years 4-6 and you become a full partner in year 7 after graduating. How much will you be making? Dont look at these ridiculous numbers from medscape. Part-time academic nephrologists are getting grouped in with private nephrologists with ownership stakes in dialysis, vascular access and private transplant centers working 65+ hours weekly. I think medscape generally receives 30-40 responses from nephrologists. Try to get your hands on the MGMA survey. I believe they were able to survey 400+ nephrologists last year. They distinguish income based on private vs academic and much more accurately reflects your likely income once you make partner. The payout comes much later than if you became a hospitalist (which is immediately after residency), but it does eventually come if you can survive fellowship and maneuver in the minefield of private groups looking to take advantage of you.

Interesting input. Thanks for sharing.

What of doing the renal subspecialties?
ICU, transplant, geriatrics, advanced HD, glomerular, interventional nephrology and any others? not worth the time or value added?
 
hi guys...good luck to you all.
Anyone of you know about the ped nephro program at children mercy UMKC?
 
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Hello everyone,

Looks like there is no thread for Nephrology Fellowship for this year, not sure if that's because of last year's thread getting kind of out of hand or not :)

I'm applying to Nephrology this year after careful consideration of all the issue with Nephrology at this time.

Good luck everyone!
Hi
I need help
I have two questions
1-When post match-scramble-process will be started for nephrology fellowship program
2-how will be processed on Eras or NRMP?
 
Hi
I need help
I have two questions
1-When post match-scramble-process will be started for nephrology fellowship program
2-how will be processed on Eras or NRMP?

Immediately after Match results are available so are the Match statistics. All individuals who did not match to any program will receive a list of open programs and contact information. Internal Medicine program directors also have this information. Nephrology program directors will cold call unmatched cardiology and PCCM candidates. Shameless IMO.

Anyway, you can establish contact with an open program and you will get an interview for sure. If you have an ERAS portfolio already set up you can easily submit the packet to their program coordinator.

If not, then you can work something out with the interview program.

Then it becomes a pre-match type of deal. You will get a contract offer to sit on. The PD may play "hard to get" and not respond to you over the weekend. Trust me, they need you far more than you need them.
 
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Immediately after Match results are available so are the Match statistics. All individuals who did not match to any program will receive a list of open programs and contact information. Internal Medicine program directors also have this information. Nephrology program directors will cold call unmatched cardiology and PCCM candidates. Shameless IMO.

Anyway, you can establish contact with an open program and you will get an interview for sure. If you have an ERAS portfolio already set up you can easily submit the packet to their program coordinator.

If not, then you can work something out with the interview program.

Then it becomes a pre-match type of deal. You will get a contract offer to sit on. The PD may play "hard to get" and not respond to you over the weekend. Trust me, they need you far more than you need them.
Thanks
 
Congratulations to all who matched. May your dreams come true. For those who didn't match (I saw the stats I know they exist), you will definitely get a matched spot!

For those for who this is not a main career (probably for those who scramble later this season), do it for the RIGHT reasons.
But also please feel free to PM me for details to an interesting story. The interesting story is I scrambled to nephrology. I will finish the two years and I will do PCCM next year. I am not dumping renal but will practice it. Who will hire me? Well.. that's why it is an interesting story warranting a PM.
 
Pccm, cards, gi rejects...please do not join post match nephrology..you are wasting your time and unnecessarily making job market terrible for graduates. Private practice doesn’t care where you trained. Less trainees is a fix for this specialty in some ways
 
What are the match statistics for this year in nephrology ? How many unfilled programs and positions ?
 
Pccm, cards, gi rejects...please do not join post match nephrology..you are wasting your time and unnecessarily making job market terrible for graduates. Private practice doesn’t care where you trained. Less trainees is a fix for this specialty in some ways

I agree with this sentiment overall as a nephro to ccm backup is a long shot . However it is doable ... but there is always the trap of falling short .


And match stats somewhat similar .
59% positions filled
36% total programs filled

Slightly more amg and do this time I believe
 
Hey guys. I am a PGY-2 who decided to nephrology fellowship sort late into this year. I was wondering what are my chances of getting into Texas Nephrology fellowships especially UT-Houston,Baylor, and Houston Methodist. I am an osteopath Grad who doing residency at an academic university hospital. The only issue I have is passing USMLE CS second time around but otherwise have solid usmle/COMLEX scores and 1 poster,2 publications, and 1 poster pending.

Please give me meaningful responses and please don’t give me nephro bashing commsnts. Thanks.

Black Ninja
 
Hey guys. I am a PGY-2 who decided to nephrology fellowship sort late into this year. I was wondering what are my chances of getting into Texas Nephrology fellowships especially UT-Houston,Baylor, and Houston Methodist. I am an osteopath Grad who doing residency at an academic university hospital. The only issue I have is passing USMLE CS second time around but otherwise have solid usmle/COMLEX scores and 1 poster,2 publications, and 1 poster pending.

Please give me meaningful responses and please don’t give me nephro bashing commsnts. Thanks.

Black Ninja
trust me with a 64% unfilled rate, you won't have a problem getting a spot, even MGH offers up prematches.
 
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sorry to hear bout your cs issue, but out of curiosity, why in the world did you take it?
I was under the impression that I had to for acgme residency but only later to find out that it was required for me as DO. :/
 
For those that applied, what was the word limit on personal statement letter??
 
For those that applied, what was the word limit on personal statement letter??

There’s no limit . But in general the longer it is , the Less likely the PD will read the whole thing . Rule of thumb is size 10-11 and no more than one page

Though for renal the more you gush about how much you love it , maybe it will work in your favor given the low supply of applicants .
 
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There’s no limit . But in general the longer it is , the Less likely the PD will read the whole thing . Rule of thumb is size 10-11 and no more than one page

Though for renal the more you gush about how much you love it , maybe it will work in your favor given the low supply of applicants .
Lol yea, mine is about 1 page with font size 12.
 
There’s no limit . But in general the longer it is , the Less likely the PD will read the whole thing . Rule of thumb is size 10-11 and no more than one page

Though for renal the more you gush about how much you love it , maybe it will work in your favor given the low supply of applicants .
You could probably just write I like nephrology and still get an interview
 
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You could probably just wrote I like nephrology and still get an i terview

We are writing an full page essay why we have selected nephrology. This is not some kindergarten homework assignment that we are giving to teacher. If you are trying to be funny, I am sorry but you have failed. I am not laughing. If you nothing positive to talk about nephro, I recommend that you refrain from making such comments. Thank you.
 
We are writing an full page essay why we have selected nephrology. This is not some kindergarten homework assignment that we are giving to teacher. If you are trying to be funny, I am sorry but you have failed. I am not laughing. If you nothing positive to talk about nephro, I recommend that you refrain from making such comments. Thank you.
go and read my posts abut nephrology...

with a 60+ % unfill rate, the last few years means that as an applicant you have the advantage...you don't need to write some impressive PS that sells yourself. You can write about anything you want...the fact that you are applying means you will get interviews and match (unless you are a terrible interview or do something really really stupid)...when MGH offers a pre match a few years ago, that should tell you something.

don't really care you are not laughing...why would i?
 
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go and read my posts abut nephrology...

with a 60+ % unfill rate, the last few years means that as a applicant you have the advantage...you don't need to write some impressive PS that sells yourself. You can write about anything you want...the fact that you are applying means you will get interviews and match (unless you are a terrible interview ro do something really really stupid)...when MGH offers a pre match a few years ago, that should tell you something.

don't really care you are not laughing...why would i?


Thank you for enlightening me. But I still sincerely want to write the best personal statement letter that I can and still take and respect the application process seriously, even if the match rate for Nephro is 90-100%. I don’t think it appropriate to give half-@$$ effort and lower my own standards in the application process just because programs go Unfilled every year. I rather be safe and get the best program that I can get instead of scrambling for less attractive spot in post match. That’s just me and my personality. I am Sorry if I made a quick assumption about you and completely vented on you.
 
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Black ninjas professionalism is commendable. After all , if one is going for renal one should go for the top tier ivory tower academic renal fellowships go ensure some form of job security and the ability to see the renal cases like GNs and renal transplant that can actually have value added by the nephrologist .
 
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Black ninjas professionalism is commendable. After all , if one is going for renal one should go for the top tier ivory tower academic renal fellowships go ensure some form of job security and the ability to see the renal cases like GNs and renal transplant that can actually have value added by the nephrologist .
Thank you and that is something every applicant should strive for
 
Thank you and that is something every applicant should strive for

But don’t spend too much time it . Google “why I became a nephrologist” from medscape and August 2017 there is an overly facetious and saccharine personal statement like article on why this nephrologist (who is an eminent and leader in the field) chose medicine and nephrology .

This is not a criticism of this doctor (who probbaly posts here) but rather there’s no need to construct such an overtly long Ps is my point .
 
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But don’t spend too much time it . Google “why I became a nephrologist” from medscape and August 2017 there is an overly facetious and saccharine personal statement like article on why this nephrologist (who is an eminent and leader in the field) chose medicine and nephrology .

This is not a criticism of this doctor (who probbaly posts here) but rather there’s no need to construct such an overtly long Ps is my point .
Got it. Thank you!
 
How hard is it to obtain a transplant Nephrology fellowship if I match into program that doesn’t have in house transplant nephrology fellowship?? Just curious
 
How hard is it to obtain a transplant Nephrology fellowship if I match into program that doesn’t have in house transplant nephrology fellowship?? Just curious

Well the transplant fellowship spot in my current fellowship (big NYC academic program) did not fill... so...
 
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In anticipation of the upcoming 2018-2019 Application Thread ( I will wait for a moderator to make it.. I don't know what kind of mood GutOnc is in today... probably cheery as usual..), I write this post of "Why You Should Apply to Nephrology." For the uninitiated, I am a graduating nephrology fellow who has extreme dislike of the subspecialty of nephrology and only finished the fellowship because of "reasons." I have no intention of practicing nephrology. Hence, you know when I am listing to you the reasons why you should do it, then you know I am not sugarcoating anything. Of note, this is not satire, I promise.

- It is somewhat easier to enter academics via nephrology than in another more competitive subspecialty such as cardiology, GI, PCCM - with a dearth of candidates and even less so research oriented candidates from top residency spots, it actually becomes somewhat easy for an applicant who is not the TOP GUN medical student/resident (Step 1 260+, all honors as a student, Top research med school, saved two villages before residency, top residency pedigree, AMG etc) to "climb the ropes" and go from a "meh" residency to a "top reputation" nephrology program. From there, you will have enough connections and reputation to enter an academic faculty position at another fellowship program. Trust me I have seen it happen with fairly good frequency.

- You get to keep your Internal medicine skills up to date. Now this does not necessarily mean you will retain or practice all of your outpatient GIM, though you could if you wanted to since HD patients see the nephrologist most of the time. While you may not be a "master internist" that some of the older nephrologists (i.e. the ones who do not participate in MOE) seem to fashion themselves as, you will not be so pigeonholed into a very peculiar niche that you can still provide a good breadth of general medical knowledge. In some ways, you can have the esteem and confidence of practicing the parts of general medicine but without any of the "case management" aspects of it. While some may say HD is purely a case management situation, I was merely referring to management of non-HD nephrology issues.

- You really get to know the patients from CKD to HD who really really rely on you to help them get things done. Their PMD is hit or miss and often takes a backseat to all of the specialists. For the patients who are communicated to well ahead of time and know what to expect (and all patients from all spectrum of the socioeconomic rings of life can and do become good CKD/HD patients as long as they have a good attentive doctor from the beginning). You can feel great satisfaction knowing you really helped save a patient from

- The ASN governing society knows nephrology is "in trouble." No need for me to further belabor this point here. But needless to say, they have made great strides in improving access to educational materials, GME, and highlighting new research breakthroughs. As a fellow you can get two-three years of free membership and subscription and free delivery of the two major journals JASN and CJASN. The annual meetings are also very fellow friendly.

- Job security is definitely there. With a dearth of applicants, there are always jobs there. However, the quality of jobs may leave much to be desired (see other posts, no need to belabor this point here). As long as you flexible to move anywhere and possibly even do locums tenens, you will get a job in nephrology. But perhaps the most useful customization is to combine GIM with nephrology. Although in academics you would need a special set up for this, as a private community physician, this is perhaps to your benefit. Most insurances will only allow so many subspecialty visits in one year. But if you see your patients as GIM, then you may be afforded more time for preventative services (and then just double up on their renal care). As a matter of fact, virtually most parts of nephrology (sans glomerular disease, HD, and transplant) can easily be absorbed into GIM. But there are also plenty of medical director supplemental jobs out there. It's all about being flexible about where you are willing to live. The big cities are saturated so good luck there. But as long as you can move rural, you will have some business.

- The old guard nephrologists are retiring now and will continue to retire over the next 10 years. Their spots will finally be open for the younger generation.

- You will be needed by your hospital colleagues. The glass half full argument is HD, CRRT, SCUF, TPE are valuable extracorporeal therapies and the expertise of the nephrologist willl always be there for these cases. The glass half empty argument is... in the other threads.

- You will be respected. Well you will be respected by the MS1 up to the PGY3 level at least. That's something.

- You have some customization options - the nephrology subspecialties are rather limited but at least offer a very unique branching point. Renal transplant is available and not terribly hard to obtain. Going this route limits you to academics (no private practice transplant nephrologists out there) but it also gets you into academics for certain. CCM is a possible pathway but it's not a natural fit like PCCM is. N-CCM at a big academic institution does ensure you will become a CRRT guru at a big academic center. But in private practice, there is really no established N-CCM shift work type of set up unless you create it yourself. Interventional Nephrology is also a niche in certain parts of the country.

- You will become adept at volume status ... the bronze level way of going by volume status anyway. But that's something.

I might think of more later. Yes some of these have some backhanded compliments in there. But for a new nephrology graduate who hates every thing about it, I think I am quite sincere in my opinion about these aforementioned items.

Good luck everyone. You will definitely match!
 
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In anticipation of the upcoming 2018-2019 Application Thread ( I will wait for a moderator to make it.. I don't know what kind of mood GutOnc is in today... probably cheery as usual..), I write this post of "Why You Should Apply to Nephrology." For the uninitiated, I am a graduating nephrology fellow who has extreme dislike of the subspecialty of nephrology and only finished the fellowship because of "reasons." I have no intention of practicing nephrology. Hence, you know when I am listing to you the reasons why you should do it, then you know I am not sugarcoating anything. Of note, this is not satire, I promise.

- It is somewhat easier to enter academics via nephrology than in another more competitive subspecialty such as cardiology, GI, PCCM - with a dearth of candidates and even less so research oriented candidates from top residency spots, it actually becomes somewhat easy for an applicant who is not the TOP GUN medical student/resident (Step 1 260+, all honors as a student, Top research med school, saved two villages before residency, top residency pedigree, AMG etc) to "climb the ropes" and go from a "meh" residency to a "top reputation" nephrology program. From there, you will have enough connections and reputation to enter an academic faculty position at another fellowship program. Trust me I have seen it happen with fairly good frequency.

- You get to keep your Internal medicine skills up to date. Now this does not necessarily mean you will retain or practice all of your outpatient GIM, though you could if you wanted to since HD patients see the nephrologist most of the time. While you may not be a "master internist" that some of the older nephrologists (i.e. the ones who do not participate in MOE) seem to fashion themselves as, you will not be so pigeonholed into a very peculiar niche that you can still provide a good breadth of general medical knowledge. In some ways, you can have the esteem and confidence of practicing the parts of general medicine but without any of the "case management" aspects of it. While some may say HD is purely a case management situation, I was merely referring to management of non-HD nephrology issues.

- You really get to know the patients from CKD to HD who really really rely on you to help them get things done. Their PMD is hit or miss and often takes a backseat to all of the specialists. For the patients who are communicated to well ahead of time and know what to expect (and all patients from all spectrum of the socioeconomic rings of life can and do become good CKD/HD patients as long as they have a good attentive doctor from the beginning). You can feel great satisfaction knowing you really helped save a patient from

- The ASN governing society knows nephrology is "in trouble." No need for me to further belabor this point here. But needless to say, they have made great strides in improving access to educational materials, GME, and highlighting new research breakthroughs. As a fellow you can get two-three years of free membership and subscription and free delivery of the two major journals JASN and CJASN. The annual meetings are also very fellow friendly.

- Job security is definitely there. With a dearth of applicants, there are always jobs there. However, the quality of jobs may leave much to be desired (see other posts, no need to belabor this point here). As long as you flexible to move anywhere and possibly even do locums tenens, you will get a job in nephrology. But perhaps the most useful customization is to combine GIM with nephrology. Although in academics you would need a special set up for this, as a private community physician, this is perhaps to your benefit. Most insurances will only allow so many subspecialty visits in one year. But if you see your patients as GIM, then you may be afforded more time for preventative services (and then just double up on their renal care). As a matter of fact, virtually most parts of nephrology (sans glomerular disease, HD, and transplant) can easily be absorbed into GIM. But there are also plenty of medical director supplemental jobs out there. It's all about being flexible about where you are willing to live. The big cities are saturated so good luck there. But as long as you can move rural, you will have some business.

- The old guard nephrologists are retiring now and will continue to retire over the next 10 years. Their spots will finally be open for the younger generation.

- You will be needed by your hospital colleagues. The glass half full argument is HD, CRRT, SCUF, TPE are valuable extracorporeal therapies and the expertise of the nephrologist willl always be there for these cases. The glass half empty argument is... in the other threads.

- You will be respected. Well you will be respected by the MS1 up to the PGY3 level at least. That's something.

- You have some customization options - the nephrology subspecialties are rather limited but at least offer a very unique branching point. Renal transplant is available and not terribly hard to obtain. Going this route limits you to academics (no private practice transplant nephrologists out there) but it also gets you into academics for certain. CCM is a possible pathway but it's not a natural fit like PCCM is. N-CCM at a big academic institution does ensure you will become a CRRT guru at a big academic center. But in private practice, there is really no established N-CCM shift work type of set up unless you create it yourself. Interventional Nephrology is also a niche in certain parts of the country.

- You will become adept at volume status ... the bronze level way of going by volume status anyway. But that's something.

I might think of more later. Yes some of these have some backhanded compliments in there. But for a new nephrology graduate who hates every thing about it, I think I am quite sincere in my opinion about these aforementioned items.

Good luck everyone. You will definitely match!


This is reassuring and I am optimistic based your honest point of view. Thank you !
 
Update: word through the vine is that at a nearby community-tertiary care teaching hospital in the greater NY area, a rising second year junior faculty attending (Clinical Instructor "rank") is getting promoted to PROGRAM DIRECTOR for this nephrology program entering her second year of being an attending. This is highly deserved and earned in terms of her merit.
But to paint a picture:
Canada-IMG, decent step scores, went to a rural area tertiary care center for IM, went to a top flight academic nephrology program in NYC, published a handful of items (nothing RCT big but good reviews, retrospetive, and database studies), got the initial job under the recommendation of this person's Nephrology Chief in fellowship, then in the current attending job the CHIEF OF NEPHROLOGY retires at age 80, and everyone moves up the rank by 1.

Hence, a real tlife example of academic nephrology paying dividends right now in the era where the older nephrologists are finally retiring.
 
Update: word through the vine is that at a nearby community-tertiary care teaching hospital in the greater NY area, a rising second year junior faculty attending (Clinical Instructor "rank") is getting promoted to PROGRAM DIRECTOR for this nephrology program entering her second year of being an attending. This is highly deserved and earned in terms of her merit.
But to paint a picture:
Canada-IMG, decent step scores, went to a rural area tertiary care center for IM, went to a top flight academic nephrology program in NYC, published a handful of items (nothing RCT big but good reviews, retrospetive, and database studies), got the initial job under the recommendation of this person's Nephrology Chief in fellowship, then in the current attending job the CHIEF OF NEPHROLOGY retires at age 80, and everyone moves up the rank by 1.

Hence, a real tlife example of academic nephrology paying dividends right now in the era where the older nephrologists are finally retiring.
This would be very strange, given that the ACGME requires 5 years as a faculty member before you can be a program director.

I checked and it applies to nephrology too:

II.A.3.a).(1) The program director must have at least five years of participation as an active faculty member in an ACGMEaccredited internal medicine residency or nephrology fellowship.

https://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PFA...logy_2017-07-01.pdf?ver=2017-04-27-153225-583
 
This would be very strange, given that the ACGME requires 5 years as a faculty member before you can be a program director.

I checked and it applies to nephrology too:

II.A.3.a).(1) The program director must have at least five years of participation as an active faculty member in an ACGMEaccredited internal medicine residency or nephrology fellowship.

https://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PFA...logy_2017-07-01.pdf?ver=2017-04-27-153225-583

Good catch . Apparently this rule is being changed soon is another word heard from the grapevine . To be determined in a bit perhaps .

Either way the moral of this story is that as the older nephro retire there are more potential spots and chances for advancement within academia
 
Just curious.... how soon will I hear back from programs for interviews once they are released on July 15th??? I am planning to have all my stuff submitted on July 5th - 6th
 
Just curious.... how soon will I hear back from programs for interviews once they are released on July 15th??? I am planning to have all my stuff submitted on July 5th - 6th

Usually fairly fast.

Let me just say a resident last year who applied for nephrology took his time and submitted his application in August. (His father is in IN and has a thriving practice in a niche market in the US, so this resident merely had to find the best fit in nephro for himself before doing the unaccreditted IN training with his father)

despite applying so late, he got 15 offers within one week.

Now he applied rather foolishly by only ranking TWO PROGRAMS and hence did not match.

But through the scramble he got a top notch academic nephro program.

So moral of the story - don't worry.
 
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Usually fairly fast.

Let me just say a resident last year who applied for nephrology took his time and submitted his application in August. (His father is in IN and has a thriving practice in a niche market in the US, so this resident merely had to find the best fit in nephro for himself before doing the unaccreditted IN training with his father)

despite applying so late, he got 15 offers within one week.

Now he applied rather foolishly by only ranking TWO PROGRAMS and hence did not match.

But through the scramble he got a top notch academic nephro program.

So moral of the story - don't worry.

Awesome Thank you!!!!
 
does anyone know if any programs pay for lodging or flights? I know UNC says no on their website. I'm applying to 10 or less programs but would consider adding some if they help with the financial part. Thanks!
 
Anyone has suggestions regarding the nephrology fellowship programs in:

SUNY downstate Brooklyn,NY
Harlem Hospital, NY
Saint Louis university hospital, MO
Arkansas university for medical sciences., AR
 
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