*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[BT_Mastermind]

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For people that have already been on 2nd looks, how much "background research" did you do beforehand on each of the PIs that you met with? Just enough so that you could ask them relevant questions about their research? Or read one of their most recent publications so you can can really get into it and have specific questions?

It depends on what you want to get out of the meetings. I treated each meeting as a chance to get enough information to decide whether to rotate with this PI. So I tried to structure the conversation toward things I care about, which does include their specific research approaches and future directions. But I think it would be a missed opportunity for you to only consider research. You should also try to get a sense of, "does this person's personality/work style fits with mine?" which is admittedly difficult in a brief conversation. You can straight up ask the question of "What's your mentoring style?" or "How often do you meet with your students?" Check out Quora and Academia StackExchange for much better answers than mine. For example: What are the 'right questions' to ask professors at a visit day for prospective graduate students?

 

[PursuingHappy]

For people that have already been on 2nd looks, how much "background research" did you do beforehand on each of the PIs that you met with? Just enough so that you could ask them relevant questions about their research? Or read one of their most recent publications so you can can really get into it and have specific questions?

I did a little background research, but I honestly think the faculty were trying to sell the school to me. They wanted to know if I had questions about the city, the environment, classes, etc. We spoke about research and also their mentoring style, but mainly about how my interests may be aligned with my medical and graduate education at that specific institution. I was sort of unprepared for them asking me if I had questions; I was expecting the meetings to be all about research. It would be good to have questions about the institution, city, students, and whatever else you can think of.

 

[Fencer]

Another week in the 2019 cycle... Brief update as of admission actions by Friday 04/05/19 (overnight sync to today) for the 2019 AMCAS MD/PhD cycle (Changes since 03/29 admission actions). This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	6-Apr	30-Mar	Change
Total Applicants	1765	1766	-1
Withdrawn before Acceptance (AC)	6	6	0
Rejection codes (Prelim Rj, Passive W, ReJection)	1047	1049	-2
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	712	711	1
At least 1 MD/PhD AC	661	655	6
DeFer to later application cycle	2	2	0
Withdrawn After acceptance	21	18	3
Currently AC to enter in 2019	638	635	3
Still seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	51	56	-5

As expected, the third week after the deadline for every school to extend their minimum number of acceptances as they plan to enroll, has been relatively quiet, but there is a steady stream of additional first-time acceptances. Next week, accepted applicants continue doing their 2nd visits. Hopefully, after doing two of those 2nd visits, applicants make a binary decision between the two locations AND communicate the decision to the school withdrawing after acceptance. We understand that you might find another program that aligns better with you. That is the only way that we can make this cycle move well. Despite communicating personally with our most of our accepted applicants, we are still blinded. We can't over-enroll. As a group, MD/PhD programs are conservative ...

On April 15, applicants must reduce to no more than 3 acceptances. In our portal, 20% of accepted and 15% of alternates have more than 3 acceptances as of yesterday. I think that we should propose earlier deadlines for MD/PhD programs in the future. Let's hope that applicants keep making their choices among acceptances. Slowly, but steadily, we are getting closer to historical trends for the number of MD/PhD acceptances. There is still hope for those who interviewed and have not been accepted. The past 6-year average has been a total of 774 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance (range is 749-791 applicants - see post #225 of this thread). I predict that we should get closer to 749, which means a lot of people in the "still seeking a position" and some who have been rejected might end up with a late acceptance.

 

[klucket2]

@Fencer Is the "Withdrawn after acceptance" category anyone who has withdrawn from every acceptance they've received, so they're holding no active offers as of now?

 

[Fencer]

@Fencer Is the "Withdrawn after acceptance" category anyone who has withdrawn from every acceptance they've received, so they're holding no active offers as of now?

These are applicants who withdraw from every MD/PhD acceptance (i.e.: decided not to pursue MD/PhD program) often keeping a MD acceptance (for example MD acceptance at a "prestigious" institution OR they hold off MD/PhD until they get a good financial aid package for MD only). Every year, this group reaches between 80-120 applicants. It has come down in numbers in recent years - see post #225 of this thread.

 

[Fencer]

Another week in the 2019 cycle... Brief update as of admission actions by Friday 04/12/19 (overnight sync to today) for the 2019 AMCAS MD/PhD cycle (Changes since 04/05 admission actions). This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	13-Apr	6-Apr	Change
Total Applicants	1765	1765	0
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	5	6	-1
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1041	1047	-6
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	719	712	7
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	670	661	9
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	2	2	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	22	21	1
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	646	638	8
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	49	51	-2

As expected, the fourth week after the deadline for every school to extend their minimum number of acceptances as they plan to enroll, has been relatively quiet, but there is a steady stream of additional first-time acceptances. Next week, applicants must reduce their acceptances to no more than 3 of them. Hopefully, after doing two of those 2nd visits, applicants make a binary decision between the two locations AND communicate the decision to the school withdrawing after acceptance. We understand that you might find another program that aligns better with you. That is the only way that we can make this cycle move well. Waitlists should start moving over the next 3-4 weeks with a peak likely during the first week of May.

 

[klucket2]

Thoughts on mentioning that you have received other acceptances in your LOI/update letter? People over in the 2018-2019 waitlist support thread are talking about how (allegedly) adcoms would rather accept a student off their waitlist that already holds an acceptance somewhere else. I'm not sure what/who the original source of this comment is, or the logic behind it frankly. Not sure if adcom members have discussed this somewhere here on SDN in the past. I already sent a LOI to my top choice over a month ago and didn't mention that I currently have 1 MSTP acceptance. I don't have any other updates that could go in a 2nd letter, the only new information they don't currently have is that I am accepted somewhere. Anyone have any insight/input??

 

[Fencer]

This is a possibility for phrasing it:
"Although I have another MSTP acceptance, I strongly believe that your program has a much better alignment with my research interests and personal preferences."

Rationale (while I don't completely support it, it is what it is):
The point is that when a site visit happens, a frequent question to the students is, where else were you accepted. For us, is a validation that other quality programs saw promise on a particular applicant. Lastly, it is a measure of competitiveness of the MSTP that they are able to attract students who are also wanted elsewhere.

I personally like to find gold where others didn't... I also believe that the above rationale is not a measure of the Training Quality that happens in a program. If you only accept >523/>3.95 applicants with NIH/R1 research experiences, are you really training or just providing resources? Some of us develop physician-scientists ...

 

[klucket2]

@Fencer At this point in the cycle, do you think it would be worth writing another letter with essentially no updates just to make it clear that I have an MSTP acceptance? It would be incredibly brief, a "Hi it's me again, just letting you know that I'm still extremely interested/committed" type letter. I wouldn't want to get into all the specific details of why I think the school/program/research/city is a good fit for me out of fear of it being too repetitive/similar to the first LOI I sent.

 

[immunoHERstochemistry]

I know of people who hold more than 3 acceptances and have heard it said they don’t really *have* to follow the trafficking rules. Thoughts on this?

 

[klucket2]

I know of people who hold more than 3 acceptances and have heard it said they don’t really *have* to follow the trafficking rules. Thoughts on this?

I mean, they don't HAVE to. It's incredibly unprofessional and inconsiderate to ignore the guidelines, but AMCAS hasn't established any consequences for applicants who don't narrow down to 3 by today. Programs can't really penalize students either, because as of now they don't have information on the number of offers that each individual accepted student is still holding, they just have aggregate data about the population of accepted students as a whole.

 

[Fencer]

Programs are able to place teeth with their policies. Rescinding an acceptance is something that can be easily defended in court if an applicant does not follow AMCAS traffic rules. While we would not know for sure if an applicant was still holding more than 3 acceptances by April 15. We will know the identity of each of our accepted students, number of acceptances and where they are accepted by May 1. If I see an applicant holding 2 or more acceptances, I will do a phone call. It is possible (and likely) that the process takes more than the preferred 2 days for some programs to reflect admission actions at or around April 30, and then AMCAS takes overnight to sync acceptance data. I will ask for the accepted applicant to forward me emails of withdrawal, etc. If this problem persist, we have the ability to rescind the AC. In my program of 5-7 slots/year, I haven't been done that in almost a decade, but I certainly have discussed the issue of professionalism with applicants who did not followed the traffic rules. Every year, nationally, there are 1-3 rescindances (occasionally none in the MD/PhD cycle)... typically this is because of background check issues.

 

[immunoHERstochemistry]

With the “down to 3 at most” deadline (which we just discussed is apparently unenforced) is it possible we might see more waitlist movement this week as a result?

 

[klucket2]

With the “down to 3 at most” deadline (which we just discussed is apparently unenforced) is it possible we might see more waitlist movement this week as a result?

Potentially, If programs have enough of their accepted applicants rank them outside of their top 3. As you might expect this is more likely to happen at Mid and lower tier schools and less likely at top tier and T10s. Those really competitive programs that are probably in the top 3 for all of their accepted applicants will probably be waiting it out until April 30th until they know for sure.

 

[pyrrhic]

Will programs be able to see our WL offers on April 30/May 1? And regardless, is it typically common to notify program directors at the program you mark as plan-to-enroll of WLs you're on?

 

[MSTPadvocate]

As of this morning, our program has 4 people with 5+ acceptances and 2 with 4 acceptances.

 

[raysearch]

As of this morning, our program has 4 people with 5+ acceptances and 2 with 4 acceptances.

Doesn't this violate the traffic rules? Do you plan on sending an email to all accepted applicants to reiterate the 3 acceptances traffic rule, or are programs not really enforcing this traffic rule?

 

[klucket2]

Doesn't this violate the traffic rules? Do you plan on sending an email to all accepted applicants to reiterate the 3 acceptances traffic rule, or are programs not really enforcing this traffic rule?

For applicants, the April 15th deadline was a strong "traffic recommendation". It's unfortunate that for MSTPadvocate none of their accepted students are following this recommendation (I'm assuming they have 6 accepted applicants total). They could send en email reminding applicants to narrow it down to three, but what are they going to do, rescind all their offers if people don't listen? Even if those 2 people with 4 acceptances all drop 1 of them and get down to 3, MSTPadvocate has no way of knowing the identity of the students following the rules and the students holding 5 offers, so they don't have a way to enforce it (before April 30th, which is when the identities of the accepted students and what they're all holding onto will become available to program directors).

 

[raysearch]

For applicants, the April 15th deadline was a strong "traffic recommendation". It's unfortunate that for MSTPadvocate none of their accepted students are following this recommendation (I'm assuming they have 6 accepted applicants total). They could send en email reminding applicants to narrow it down to three, but what are they going to do, rescind all their offers if people don't listen? Even if those 2 people with 4 acceptances all drop 1 of them and get down to 3, MSTPadvocate has no way of knowing the identity of the students following the rules and the students holding 5 offers, so they don't have a way to enforce it (before April 30th when the identities of the accepted students and what they're holding will become available to program directors).

I agree that there is no way to enforce it. However, I think receiving a reminder email from an MSTP director where one is accepted is very powerful, as this is a direct indication that the program values the traffic rules and is aware/displeased that some people (regardless of knowing their names specifically) are not following them. The email doesn't need to be targeted at a specific person to be effective. To me it just seems a little ridiculous to hold more than 3 acceptances at this point for MSTP after essentially all the second looks have taken place. Unlike for MD, MSTP applicants are not still waiting on financial aid packages so I'm not sure what is preventing people from narrowing down choices to 3 as the traffic rules specify. Unless people forgot or are not aware of the traffic rules in which case again the MSTP director sending an email reminder would be helpful.

 

[klucket2]

I agree that there is no way to enforce it. However, I think receiving a reminder email from an MSTP director where one is accepted is very powerful, as this is a direct indication that the program values the traffic rules and is aware/displeased that some people (regardless of knowing their names specifically) are not following them. The email doesn't need to be targeted at a specific person to be effective.

I agree that it would be powerful to the kind of person who takes these things seriously. However, I'm inclined to believe that the sort of applicant who has been accepted to 5+ programs was well aware of the April 15th deadline and deliberately chose to ignore it. They don't care that they're impeding the admissions process for everyone else. Would they really then care about en email from one of the 5+ program directors urging them to narrow down their choices, especially when these program directors have no way of knowing that they're not following the rules and that they have no way of penalizing them for it?

 

[raysearch]

I agree that it would be powerful to the kind of person who takes these things seriously. However, I'm inclined to believe that the sort of applicant who has been accepted to 5+ programs was well aware of the April 15th deadline and deliberately chose to ignore it. They don't care that they're impeding the admissions process for everyone else. Would they really then care about en email from one of the 5+ program directors urging them to narrow down their choices, especially when these program directors have no way of knowing that they're not following the rules and that they have no way of penalizing them for it?

I see your point. It's sad that some applicants would adopt this blasé mentality after a successful cycle, having met so many other hardworking and passionate applicants on the interview trail. Maybe you are right and consequences may be necessary in the future for some people, though I am not sure what they could be. In the meantime before there are consequences in place, I don't think that MSTP directors sending emails could hurt in any way. Even if it doesn't convince some people to take this more seriously it may remind a few others that such rules even exist. I wonder if AMCAS will follow up with applicants as well....

 

[MSTPadvocate]

For applicants, the April 15th deadline was a strong "traffic recommendation". It's unfortunate that for MSTPadvocate none of their accepted students are following this recommendation (I'm assuming they have 6 accepted applicants total). They could send en email reminding applicants to narrow it down to three, but what are they going to do, rescind all their offers if people don't listen? Even if those 2 people with 4 acceptances all drop 1 of them and get down to 3, MSTPadvocate has no way of knowing the identity of the students following the rules and the students holding 5 offers, so they don't have a way to enforce it (before April 30th, which is when the identities of the accepted students and what they're all holding onto will become available to program directors).

We have alot more than 6 - this represents maybe 20% of our total. We are a large program.

 

[Tothepub]

One thing I've noticed is that several MSTPs don't have a way to withdraw online that is linked to the CYMS tool. In these cases, I've sent emails to the PDs of the programs in questions to withdraw but these changes are not reflected in the CYMS tool for several days or even weeks. Could this be inflating the number of applicants still holding multiple acceptances?

 

[klucket2]

One thing I've noticed is that several MSTPs don't have a way to withdraw online that is linked to the CYMS tool. In these cases, I've sent emails to the PDs of the programs in questions to withdraw but these changes are not reflected in the CYMS tool for several days or even weeks. Could this be inflating the number of applicants still holding multiple acceptances?

A lot of schools have an option to withdrawal if you log in to their application portal where you submitted your secondary application. Maybe try that? I withdrew that way for 1 program where I was waitlisted and because the system is automated I received an email that I had been officially withdrawn within minutes.

 

[Tothepub]

A lot of schools have an option to withdrawal if you log in to their application portal where you submitted your secondary application. Maybe try that? I withdrew that way for 1 program where I was waitlisted and because the system is automated I received an email that I had been officially withdrawn within minutes.

Yes some schools have that option, but others don't, especially those that either have non-ampsystem secondaries, separate MSTP secondaries, or schools that require you to select "accept offer" or "decline offer" within a few days of the initial offer. In my experience that's been a substantial number of schools.

 

[Fencer]

One issue is that right now it takes 48 hours for programs to report, and another 24 hours to sync on the system. I suspect a lot of activity will be occurring this week in the AMCAS reporting system (following after emails from accepted and/or alternates at deadline - I received 3 late last night, and I am in clinic today). On the other side, for medium-size MD/PhD programs, there is no incentive to report promptly as that might leads to less information for programs (once you are below the CYMS thresholds of 10 acceptances)....

 

[kepler16b]

Internet message boards figured out how to accurately update networks decades ago... I feel like this should be instantaneous by now lol.

 

[Fencer]

While internet message boards and most of their users are technology natives, most of us (PDs, AdComms, Admission Deans, etc.) are technology immigrants.... just food for thought! Now, let me go back to AC Odyssey, I want to get 100% synchronization... (while killing time to May 1st). 🙄

 

[MSTPadvocate]

From the overnight sync, it looks like most of our applicants are following the trafficking suggestions/rules. We are down to 1 student with 5+ acceptances and one with 4 acceptances. Looking back at last years accepted applicant pool, we actually have alot fewer students holding 4+ slots this year.

 

[Typatt50]

@Fencer What do you do if a program makes you sign a contract stating that you must withdraw from all waitlists by april 30th in order to matriculate? I am waitlisted at my top choice and am holding an offer from my 2nd choice, however I do not believe there will be any movement from the waitlist until after april 30th. Is there any steps I can take/ are these contracts binding?

 

[Fencer]

That is supposed to be hard to enforce in court. See AMCAS traffic rules for admission officers: https://students-residents.aamc.org...ation-and-acceptance-protocols-admission-off/
The spirit of our agreement was that 21 days prior to matriculation, those things could be requested from applicants... April 30th seems far away from that for most MD/PhD programs. Matriculation into the school shouldn't happen until first day of orientation.

You could sign that contract but if you get another offer prior to matriculation, you should be able to consider it and make a decision in 48 hours. After matriculation, you shouldn't be accepting any other offers or switching programs ...

 

[Fencer]

Another week in the 2019 cycle... Brief update as of admission actions by Friday 04/19/19 (overnight sync to today) for the 2019 AMCAS MD/PhD cycle (Changes since 04/13 admission actions). This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	20-Apr	13-Apr	Change
Total Applicants	1765	1765	0
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	5	5	0
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1030	1041	-11
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	730	719	11
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	682	670	12
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	2	2	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	26	22	4
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	654	646	8
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	48	49	-1

As expected, the first week after the deadline for applicants to reduce to no more than 3 acceptances results in some movement. Most programs have had their 2nd visits. There is a steady stream of additional first-time acceptances but the rate has slightly increased. I expect at least 750 applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance by end of our 2019 cycle (a 42.5% acceptance rate - see recent historical range of 749-791 applicants - see post #225 of this thread). We are only 10 days away from the deadline to select a single program.

Personally, in my program we had a few withdrawals after 2nd visits. Today, we are at target size, but at least a couple of my accepted applicants are thinking another program as their best fit. A big issue for most MD/PhD programs who at this point will have less than 10 acceptances or less than 5 in-state/5 out-state is we have LIMITED INFORMATION. I can't over-enroll, thus, I have to wait until those accepted applicants make their decisions. It appears to me that the waitlist will be moving starting Monday April 29, and those 2 weeks (April 29 - May 10) will be relatively active. Currently, there are only 26 accepted applicants in the WA category but I predict a total of 75 within six weeks from today, and another 15 joining the DF category. That results in 65 slots, which eventually trickle down into positions for NEW (additional) 1st time MD/PhD accepted applicants. Clearly, the domino effect will result in some currently accepted applicants change MD/PhD programs, but eventually a newly accepted applicant is the beneficiary. Nevertheless, the historical reality has been that for about 70-80% of accepted applicants, they are set by May 1.

 

[plantlover1996]

Hi @Fencer ! Thanks for all the useful posts so far. I have a question with a bit of a long backstory...

The question: Is it worth emailing schools asking about my ranking on their waitlists?

The background: I have been accepted into one MD-PhD program. It does not have a strong graduate program in my area of interest and has few professors who focus in it. The school requires a summer research rotation this summer, which would start in early June.
I have also been accepted into 2 MD programs with the PhD part still up in the air, and I am on 3 waitlists (/haven't been rejected yet) for MD-PhD programs.
I am struggling with my decision because if I choose the MD-PhD program, I believe I will have to withdraw from waitlists for more appealing schools in mid-May due to the summer rotation. But I will be in a pretty good MD-PhD program!

If I choose one of the MD programs, everything will still be in limbo. However, both of the MD programs are quite flexible in terms of taking time off to do research and they do have quite a few faculty members whose interests match mine.

One of the waitlist positions is at my absolute top school (I have already sent a letter of intent and updates over the past months) and I wonder if it is worth emailing them with a bit of this backstory and asking if they keep a ranked list of their active applicants. Perhaps knowing where I stand at my favorite school will help me decide what to do with my life!!!!!
Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Fencer]

Congratulations on your MD/PhD and other acceptances... the situation for every school's waitlist is different. It is affected by multiple factors with the great majority of them not within the reach of your influence. Factors such as last year enrollment, number of graduating students, attrition within the program, endowment performance in the market, program strategy for building up or down, and other factors... You could send another email to your top alternate choice. I encourage you to stay in the MD/PhD program if you intent is to pursue significant research in the future. Accumulating debt in medical school will limit your eventual choices.

 

[kepler16b]

Congratulations on your MD/PhD and other acceptances... the situation for every school's waitlist is different. It is affected by multiple factors with the great majority of them not within the reach of your influence. Factors such as last year enrollment, number of graduating students, attrition within the program, endowment performance in the market, program strategy for building up or down, and other factors... You could send another email to your top alternate choice. I encourage you to stay in the MD/PhD program if you intent is to pursue significant research in the future. Accumulating debt in medical school will limit your eventual choices.

I feel like the lack of debt is often underrated when discussing MD vs MD/PhD on these boards. It would be tough to pursue a career in research- with all of its uncertainties and lower pay- if you have to worry about a significant debt burden.

 

[SlythenClaw]

I would be upfront with both the students and with leasing agents. I went apartment hunting on my second visits, so I'm keeping in contact with the leasing agent in the city I narrowed my acceptances down to. They know I can't sign anything until sometime in May, so I'm not getting hounded and they're keeping me updated on apartments that are available around my desired move date.

 

[Fencer]

Historically, less than 5% of MD/PhD students change places after May 20.

 

[MSTPadvocate]

In the last 3 years, the latest we've lost someone to another's wait list was May 14. Typically, we are pretty set by May 8-10.

 

[immunoHERstochemistry]

So even if programs start in July or August, they’re usually filled by the first two weeks of May for MD/PhD? Also, what are the chances waitlist movement might occur in this week preceding the April 30th “narrow down to one acceptance” deadline?

 

[MSTPadvocate]

So even if programs start in July or August, they’re usually filled by the first two weeks of May for MD/PhD? Also, what are the chances waitlist movement might occur in this week preceding the April 30th “narrow down to one acceptance” deadline?

Most students are planning apartments, signing leases, moving in, etc. in May. As most programs start in July, its hard to reverse the move and get settled into a new place once late May hits. Usually, once May 15 comes, we are pretty much set in our program and if we come in one or two below target number, we'll just make it up the next year.

The other thought is...I would want to go to the program that really wanted me and had me for revisit and where I had met potential classmates at that revisit. Its another story if you have no other offers and wait list is the best chance to get in this cycle. We can't see that this year though.

 

[Fencer]

We will see thru on May 1... My latest offer last decade was on May 18. That student has been outstanding. If selected even late, you are treated as one of our own.

 

[immunoHERstochemistry]

Will adcoms be able to distinguish whether plan to enroll (PTE) has been selected for the MD-only or MD/PhD program at a medical school?

 

[The_biologist]

Hello all, I have 2 question. So I just got waitlisted yesterday for the MD portion of the MD/PhD I am interested in. I didn't apply to many places and It ended up being the only school I got an interview at, but was still near the top of my list so I would be very excited to go there. I am working on my letter of intent right now. I wanted to know when sending the letter of intent whether or not to state that its a letter of intent or to just send it as an update. I know when sending a LOR you state what it is, but since this is coming from me I assume it would be weird to say "This is a letter of intent, and here it is". As I write this, it seems trivial but I would prefer not to appear strange when submitting. The other question is being that I was waitlisted for the MD aspect of the program, does this affect the way the MD/PhD committee views my application? According to them they review independently of the med school, but if you are rejected from the med school you are rejected from both. They have said that if they like an applicant they can pull them off the waitlist, but I can't help but think that what the med school had said about the student comes up in discussion for the MSTP.

 

[Lucca]

Will adcoms be able to distinguish whether plan to enroll (PTE) has been selected for the MD-only or MD/PhD program at a medical school?

Can we make that distinction on the CYS tool? It doesn’t appear I can.

 

[Fluorescentboy]

Hello all, I have 2 question. So I just got waitlisted yesterday for the MD portion of the MD/PhD I am interested in. I didn't apply to many places and It ended up being the only school I got an interview at, but was still near the top of my list so I would be very excited to go there. I am working on my letter of intent right now. I wanted to know when sending the letter of intent whether or not to state that its a letter of intent or to just send it as an update. I know when sending a LOR you state what it is, but since this is coming from me I assume it would be weird to say "This is a letter of intent, and here it is". As I write this, it seems trivial but I would prefer not to appear strange when submitting. The other question is being that I was waitlisted for the MD aspect of the program, does this affect the way the MD/PhD committee views my application? According to them they review independently of the med school, but if you are rejected from the med school you are rejected from both. They have said that if they like an applicant they can pull them off the waitlist, but I can't help but think that what the med school had said about the student comes up in discussion for the MSTP.

I don't think it would be weird to put that in subject line or something, but if you think it is weird you can call it an update letter. I think the important thing is that you stress why the program is a good fit and that if offered an acceptance you would 100% matriculate.

As to the second part, one of the schools I'm waitlisted at said something similar; basically the MD/PhD committee "recommends" the applicant and the med school has the chance to veto, but it only really happens if the applicant bombs the MD only portion of the interview.

I get the feeling that every program operates a little differently so it is going to be hard to get an exact answer, which is unfortunate. I can't imagine that anything can be conducted 100% independently though.

 

[MSTPadvocate]

Hello all, I have 2 question. So I just got waitlisted yesterday for the MD portion of the MD/PhD I am interested in. I didn't apply to many places and It ended up being the only school I got an interview at, but was still near the top of my list so I would be very excited to go there. I am working on my letter of intent right now. I wanted to know when sending the letter of intent whether or not to state that its a letter of intent or to just send it as an update. I know when sending a LOR you state what it is, but since this is coming from me I assume it would be weird to say "This is a letter of intent, and here it is". As I write this, it seems trivial but I would prefer not to appear strange when submitting. The other question is being that I was waitlisted for the MD aspect of the program, does this affect the way the MD/PhD committee views my application? According to them they review independently of the med school, but if you are rejected from the med school you are rejected from both. They have said that if they like an applicant they can pull them off the waitlist, but I can't help but think that what the med school had said about the student comes up in discussion for the MSTP.

At our school, the med school admissions committee gives a score for the student. There's a minimum average score that needs to be met and then we are free to admit to MSTP. So, say, the scale is 1 (low) to 10 (high) and we can admit anyone with a score of 4 or better. Our waitlist is then made up of students with a score of 4 or better as the med school admissions committee has no more meetings.

I suspect alot of schools work this way. If you are waitlisted at the MSTP and the med school, you don't need to be admitted off both. Whichever one admits you is the choice you have. If the MSTP admits you, its MSTP. If the med school admits you, its MD. That's how it works in our school anyway.

 

[immunoHERstochemistry]

At our school, the med school admissions committee gives a score for the student. There's a minimum average score that needs to be met and then we are free to admit to MSTP. So, say, the scale is 1 (low) to 10 (high) and we can admit anyone with a score of 4 or better. Our waitlist is then made up of students with a score of 4 or better as the med school admissions committee has no more meetings.

I suspect alot of schools work this way. If you are waitlisted at the MSTP and the med school, you don't need to be admitted off both. Whichever one admits you is the choice you have. If the MSTP admits you, its MSTP. If the med school admits you, its MD. That's how it works in our school anyway.

Is it normally a good sign at programs like this if the MD program is interested in offering an acceptance of their own or puts you high on their own waitlist, apart from the MSTP?

 

[Fencer]

Certainly, but keep in mind that the MD program is evaluating your potential to become a physician, while the MD/PhD or MSTP is examining your potential for being a physician-scientist. Thus, you might be ranked at the equivalent of #6/10 for MD and #4/10 for MSTP, or vice-versa.

 

[325jerseyboy]

Plan to Enroll: When do the school get notified of specific accepted student names rather than aggregate information:

As per available documents it states that starting April 30th schools get notified about specific students who have planned to enroll to the schools. However individual schools say the accepted students have until 11:59 pm to make their school choices to enroll . Is it true that Schools get to see the specific students before 11:59 PM on 30th April?

 

[Fencer]

yes... on April 30th, we will now but the language of what "plan to enroll" means changes (a tiny bit) at 11:59 pm on April 30th. On April 30th, applicants will have a choice to "commit to enroll" available to them. Applicants will only be able to make a single choice of Plan to Enroll or Commit to Enroll beginning April 30th.