*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

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@Fencer: Thanks for your clarification. The question still remains. On April 29th programs do not know specifically who have even planned to enroll to their program they only know in aggregate numbers. However on April 30th will the program know specifically who have planned to enroll to their program or they will only know after the deadline passes at 11:59 PM i.e. May 1st 00:00 on wards they will know with specificity?
 
325jerseyboy said:
@Fencer: Thanks for your clarification. The question still remains. On April 29th programs do not know specifically who have even planned to enroll to their program they only know in aggregate numbers. However on April 30th will the program know specifically who have planned to enroll to their program or they will only know after the deadline passes at 11:59 PM i.e. May 1st 00:00 on wards they will know with specificity?
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Does that 24 hours really make such a big difference to you? It's probably safer to have everything in order at least a few days before the deadline.
 
Let's put it this way... today, I don't know who is coming, whether I need 1 or 4 replacements for my class of 7. The last time that I had information (about a week ago), I had 5 planned to enroll for a target class of 7, but I know that most of them are alternates in other programs. In prior years, I knew the person, their level of interest, the research field, and their other MD and MD/PhD acceptances. I don't want to elevate the hopes for people in my alternate list but don't want to be under-filled either.
 
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I wonder if an appreciable portion of this could be helped if “commit to enroll” became an option earlier. As it is now, applicants, whether they are waiting for their first acceptance or their top acceptance, have been waiting almost a YEAR to get literally a few weeks notice about where they are moving to dedicate the next 8 years of their life to this career path. It’s pathetic.
 
immunoHERstochemistry said:
I wonder if an appreciable portion of this could be helped if “commit to enroll” became an option earlier. As it is now, applicants, whether they are waiting for their first acceptance or their top acceptance, have been waiting almost a YEAR to get literally a few weeks notice about where they are moving to dedicate the next 8 years of their life to this career path. It’s pathetic.
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I think the better thing would be to require the "Plan to Enroll" feature be used by April 15 and/or move revisit weekends earlier. Right now, we have 23 offers outstanding. 8 people have used the "Plan to Enroll" feature, 2 have used the "Plan to Enroll Elsewhere" (why they don't give up their spot with us, I don't know) and 13 have not used the feature. Programs are in the dark as much as the applicants. I agree a mid-May acceptance with planning a move for a July 1 start is too tough on applicants.
 
MSTPadvocate said:
I think the better thing would be to require the "Plan to Enroll" feature be used by April 15 and/or move revisit weekends earlier. Right now, we have 23 offers outstanding. 8 people have used the "Plan to Enroll" feature, 2 have used the "Plan to Enroll Elsewhere" (why they don't give up their spot with us, I don't know) and 13 have not used the feature. Programs are in the dark as much as the applicants. I agree a mid-May acceptance with planning a move for a July 1 start is too tough on applicants.
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Esp if you’re moving to a competitive housing market. Cali landlords be like 5X rent income stubs for 3 months, 6k deposit, move in immediately pls
 
MSTPadvocate said:
I think the better thing would be to require the "Plan to Enroll" feature be used by April 15 and/or move revisit weekends earlier. Right now, we have 23 offers outstanding. 8 people have used the "Plan to Enroll" feature, 2 have used the "Plan to Enroll Elsewhere" (why they don't give up their spot with us, I don't know) and 13 have not used the feature. Programs are in the dark as much as the applicants. I agree a mid-May acceptance with planning a move for a July 1 start is too tough on applicants.
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Some are even facing the distinct possibility of an early to mid-May acceptance for a June 1 start date
 
In this week leading up to May 1st, is there any indication of people starting to narrow down their decisions?
 
immunoHERstochemistry said:
In this week leading up to May 1st, is there any indication of people starting to narrow down their decisions?
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I imagine most are basically decided. Main issue is programs wont know for sure until that May 1st sync, no?
 
Lucca said:
I imagine most are basically decided. Main issue is programs wont know for sure until that May 1st sync, no?
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Ideally programs will know by communications from applicants. In a perfect world, applicants would have communicated all of their decisions already, and no new information would be revealed on May 1st.
 
kepler16b said:
Ideally programs will know by communications from applicants. In a perfect world, applicants would have communicated all of their decisions already, and no new information would be revealed on May 1st.
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Shoutout to UCSF having second look last week of April lol
 
Applicants are making decisions but not communicating them because they do not feel 100% sure. I have 1 unresponsive, 3 still waiting closer to deadline to communicate their final decisions (have used CYMS), and 3 who already have made decisions and communicated them to me (remaining active in alternate lists). I will rescind acceptance on April 30 if still remaining unresponsive to both email and phone.
 
Fencer said:
Applicants are making decisions but not communicating them because they do not feel 100% sure. I have 1 unresponsive, 3 still waiting closer to deadline to communicate their final decisions (have used CYMS), and 3 who already have made decisions and communicated them to me (remaining active in alternate lists). I will rescind acceptance on April 30 if still remaining unresponsive to both email and phone.
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Sounds more like what I would have expected. Thank you for sharing. I know multiple people who still haven’t narrowed down their choices to one, which, in more ways than not, I find hard to understand... in the end, we can all fill only one seat at one program
 
Another week in the 2019 cycle... Brief update as of admission actions by Friday 04/26/19 (overnight sync to today) for the 2019 AMCAS MD/PhD cycle (Changes since 04/20 admission actions). This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

27-Apr20-AprChange
Total Applicants176517650
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)550
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)10211030-9
Active in the cycle (not rejected)7397309
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)69368211
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)321
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)362610
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)6546540
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)4648-2

As expected, the second week after the deadline for applicants to reduce to no more than 3 acceptances results in steady movement. Essentially all programs have had their 2nd visits. There is a steady stream of additional first-time acceptances but the rate has slightly increased. I expect at least 750 applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance by end of our 2019 cycle (a 42.5% acceptance rate - see recent historical range of 749-791 applicants - see post #225 of this thread). We are only 3 days away from the deadline to select a single program.

I expect that MD/PhD waitlists will be moving starting Monday April 29, and those 3 weeks (April 29 - May 17) will be relatively very active for about 20% of trainees. Currently, there are only 36 accepted applicants in the WA category but I predict a total of 75 within six weeks from today, and another 15 joining the DF category. That results in 55 slots, which eventually trickle down into positions for NEW (additional) 1st time MD/PhD accepted applicants. Clearly, the domino effect will result in some currently accepted applicants change MD/PhD programs, but eventually a newly accepted applicant is the beneficiary. Nevertheless, the historical reality has been that for about 70-80% of accepted applicants, they are set by May 1.
 
Thoroughbred_Med said:
I came from the "seeking group" on Monday. My first MD/PhD acceptance. It was an incredibly stressful cycle, but I am pleased to join you all as future colleagues! 🙂
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Congratulations!
 
brownPiano said:
Right there with you...to think I was competitive lol
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Honestly this whole process has been really humbling to say the least. Along with stressful, exciting, arduous, and life-changing. I look back myself a year ago and think "You fool...you don't know what you are getting yourself into."
 
The_biologist said:
Honestly this whole process has been really humbling to say the least. Along with stressful, exciting, arduous, and life-changing. I look back myself a year ago and think "You fool...you don't know what you are getting yourself into."
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This, this x10000. Though, in some ways, I miss that youthful optimism.
 
Thoroughbred_Med said:
I came from the "seeking group" on Monday. My first MD/PhD acceptance. It was an incredibly stressful cycle, but I am pleased to join you all as future colleagues! 🙂
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Congrats!!! I was rooting for you 🙂
Good luck to everyone else still seeking a position.
 
The_biologist said:
Honestly this whole process has been really humbling to say the least. Along with stressful, exciting, arduous, and life-changing. I look back myself a year ago and think "You fool...you don't know what you are getting yourself into."
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Seriously though! This time last year I was one month out from my MCAT and hadn't even started my essays (woah). Looking back, it feels like an entirely different lifetime ago and I definitely feel like a different person. In hindsight, obviously this whole process is supposed to change you.

I had no idea how consuming it would be in nearly every aspect of my life, and to a lesser extent even in my friend's and families lives as well (huge shout out to my support system)! So much waiting, stress, happiness/excitement, preparation, more waiting, more stress, and more happiness/excitement. Lol it's been one hell of a year, y'all.

Fools we were, now doctors we will be!

Congrats to everyone who has committed and the best of luck to everyone who is still waiting!!
 
Accepted to Univ of Buffalo!! In the email it says

"I look forward to your acceptance of our offer on or before 5/4/19." If I accept can I still choose a different school later on? Like do I HAVE to withdraw all of my waitlists at other schools?

Beyond stoked, especially being told I was a strong applicant only to be put on the waitlist!
 
SirButtcheek said:
Accepted to Univ of Buffalo!! In the email it says

"I look forward to your acceptance of our offer on or before 5/4/19." If I accept can I still choose a different school later on? Like do I HAVE to withdraw all of my waitlists at other schools?

Beyond stoked, especially being told I was a strong applicant only to be put on the waitlist!
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Congratulations!! That's an interesting way of phrasing the sentence, did you send a letter of intent? If you said you were going to accept then I assume they're taking your word for it.
 
SirButtcheek said:
Accepted to Univ of Buffalo!! In the email it says

"I look forward to your acceptance of our offer on or before 5/4/19." If I accept can I still choose a different school later on? Like do I HAVE to withdraw all of my waitlists at other schools?

Beyond stoked, especially being told I was a strong applicant only to be put on the waitlist!
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Call them...
 
I said "I am fully committed to enroll at the University of Buffalo MD-PhD program should I receive admission!" So yes it is a letter of intent, lol. I'm on the waitlist for Hofstra MDPHD and I want to know their decision before I make a move. These were my top 2 options, so now I feel like a terrible person for sending a letter of intent and not acting on it ASAP.
 
SirButtcheek said:
I said "I am fully committed to enroll at the University of Buffalo MD-PhD program should I receive admission!" So yes it is a letter of intent, lol. I'm on the waitlist for Hofstra MDPHD and I want to know their decision before I make a move. These were my top 2 options, so now I feel like a terrible person for sending a letter of intent and not acting on it ASAP.
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Sounds like you already made your decision. Withdraw from your waitlists and commit to Buffalo.
 
Thank you @Thoroughbred_Med , @kepler16b , @PursuingHappy and everyone else for your support and kind words throughout this rollercoaster of a year. Despite the difficulties, I am grateful for the introspection that they instigated and am looking forward to finally embarking upon my career with the rest of you all 🙂
 
Another week in the 2019 cycle... Brief update as of admission actions by Friday 05/03/19 (overnight sync to today) for the 2019 AMCAS MD/PhD cycle (Changes since 04/26 admission actions). This is the BEST result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

4-May27-AprChange
Total Applicants176617651
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)752
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)9961021-25
Active in the cycle (not rejected)76373924
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)73669343
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)835
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)573621
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)67165417
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)2746-19

As expected, the week of the deadline for applicants to reduce to a 1 acceptance results in substantial movement in waitlists. This past week, we had 43 applicants who received their first MD/PhD acceptance! As applicants receive an acceptance from the waitlist, the recommended time allowed for these newly accepted applicants to make a decision between the 2 schools is 5 days, but only 2 days if it is within 30 days of orientation. There will be a steady stream of additional first-time acceptances but the rate will slow down as compared to this past week. I expect 750-770 applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance by end of our 2019 cycle (~43% acceptance rate - see recent historical range of 749-791 applicants in post #225 of this thread). Programs can require commit to enroll at 21 days from orientation.

I expect that MD/PhD waitlists will keep moving this coming week but at a lesser pace than this past week (April 29 - May 3). Most trainees are already set for their studies. Currently, there are only 57 accepted applicants in the WA category but I predict a total of 75 within 5-6 weeks from today, and another 8-10 joining the DF category for a total of 15-20. That results in ~25-30 slots, which eventually trickle down into positions for NEW (additional) 1st time MD/PhD accepted applicants. The late additional applicant is likely a DF from a prior year that reactivated their prior application to single school for acceptance. I expect 5-10 by end of cycle.
 
As an update to post #225 of this thread, here are the past 10 years of aggregate MD/PhD data:

Prelim 2019*201820172016201520142013201220112010
Total Applicants1766183218241903185618531891182617791743
At least one MD/PhD Acceptance736791778785749776763764773741
Withdraw After AC (WA)578898111103120127112117111
Rescinded Acceptance (RA)0222113034
Deferral to later class (DF)8293223222925222025
Accepted671---------
Matriculated (MA)0672646649623626608630633601
Success to 1 Acceptance42%43%43%41%40%42%40%42%43%43%
Success to Matriculation0%37%35%34%34%34%32%35%36%34%
* as of 5/3/19
 
Hi all, this is a general question but I'm sure it may be of use to others too. There has been radio silence from the program I am waiting to hear back from. I found that others have been rejected last week but I haven't heard anything besides "Thank you for the updates, thank you for your continued interest in the program" a few weeks ago after I sent an update/LOI. In early April I sent an email wanting to know what was the status of the application was, and they said they were on hold until late April through May. My question is, can I send another email asking for another update? I know that the person who reads these emails also meets with the committee, so my thought is, "Don't annoy them". At the same time, I don't really know what etiquette is when asking for information from adcoms. Any thoughts? With all the movement I am seeing in other schools and the apparent lack of WL movement both from the MD and MD/PhD programs at this school, I wonder what is going on behind the curtains.
 
As I indicated in a prior post, "as applicants receive an acceptance from the waitlist, the recommended time allowed for these newly accepted applicants to make a decision between the 2 schools is 5 days, but only 2 days if it is within 30 days of orientation. There will be a steady stream of additional first-time acceptances but the rate will slow down as compared to this past week." These are "business days", thus weekends don't count. There were NO first-time acceptances or withdrawals after acceptance since Friday. We will see tomorrow after the overnight sync if anything happened today. For example, I have 4 w commit to enroll, and 3 w plan to enroll (still in other programs' waitlists). My 3 applicants could stay in plan to enroll until 21 days prior to orientation, which is coming up in a few days. At that point, they will have to make a decision.

If you look at post # 594 of this thread, historically, there should be ~ 50-60 additional people of the 671 who are currently accepted that should WA or DF. The great majority of them will be replaced from waitlisted applicants. That is only ~7.5 - 9% of all currently accepted MD/PhD applicants. Historically, we should see some movement but not much...
 
Without calling/emailing the school to bug them, I have no w
The_biologist said:
Hi all, this is a general question but I'm sure it may be of use to others too. There has been radio silence from the program I am waiting to hear back from. I found that others have been rejected last week but I haven't heard anything besides "Thank you for the updates, thank you for your continued interest in the program" a few weeks ago after I sent an update/LOI. In early April I sent an email wanting to know what was the status of the application was, and they said they were on hold until late April through May. My question is, can I send another email asking for another update? I know that the person who reads these emails also meets with the committee, so my thought is, "Don't annoy them". At the same time, I don't really know what etiquette is when asking for information from adcoms. Any thoughts? With all the movement I am seeing in other schools and the apparent lack of WL movement both from the MD and MD/PhD programs at this school, I wonder what is going on behind the curtains.
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I'm in the same boat. I feel completely in the dark, but I don't want to start emailing/calling/annoying them. Everyone over in the school specific thread for my top choice program that I'm waitlisted at is MD only, and there have only been 2 MD waitlist acceptances posted since last Friday. Someone (who I believe is a current student there) posted last week that MSTP waitlist movement had started on May 1st, but I haven't seen anyone actually post about it anywhere here or on Reddit. Especially because we're doing MD/PhD, it feels like the next 7 years of my life are in limbo. I know I need to just step away from SDN and stay busy doing other things, but it's so hard to not obsess over it (apologies for how dramatic I'm being, I know this kind of post is usually meant for the waitlist support thread lol).
 
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I had radio silence from 3 schools and eventually decided to just pick up the phone and call. All 3 programs gave me an honest answer with where they were at and said I could continue to check in with them. At this point there's really no harm in calling, particularly if it's your top choice. Alllll of that said, I wish programs would do a better job of letting us know our status. Truly just torturing us for no reason.
 
Just as an update.... there were 3 NEW first-time MD/PhD acceptances on Monday. So, slowly The issue with the new CYMS system is that for programs with less than 10 slots, we do not know how many have other acceptances and/or alternates offers, or where else our accepted students have other acceptances. The system only shows information for MD programs, and very large MD/PhD programs (10 or more slots).

My 2 out of the 4 currently available CYMS reports with 7 accepted slots read: "The minimum threshold is not met". That is for the Acceptance Summary, AC by School Summary. No data.... I have data for who out of my accepted and alternate list have made decisions for "commit to enroll" and "plan to enroll", but only tells us whether is with us (YES) or elsewhere (NO), or no decision made (NA). The latter might mean no offers received or potentially that they have an offer but have not made a decision (unlikely given the May 1 deadline).
 
Fencer said:
Just as an update.... there were 3 NEW first-time MD/PhD acceptances on Monday. So, slowly The issue with the new CYMS system is that for programs with less than 10 slots, we do not know how many have other acceptances and/or alternates offers, or where else our accepted students have other acceptances. The system only shows information for MD programs, and very large MD/PhD programs (10 or more slots).

My 2 out of the 4 currently available CYMS reports with 7 accepted slots read: "The minimum threshold is not met". That is for the Acceptance Summary, AC by School Summary. No data.... I have data for who out of my accepted and alternate list have made decisions for "commit to enroll" and "plan to enroll", but only tells us whether is with us (YES) or elsewhere (NO), or no decision made (NA). The latter might mean no offers received or potentially that they have an offer but have not made a decision (unlikely given the May 1 deadline).
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Oh wow, I didn't realize that small MD/PhD programs would still not know where their accepted applicants were accepted or how many offers they had after April 30th! I thought the curtain was coming up for everyone.
 
We are a large enough program that we can see how many spots are being held at other programs. This is actually quite helpful, but you do need to hit the threshold for it to be so.

The issue for us is that "Plan to Enroll" versus "Commit to Enroll" is causing confusion among the applicants...
 
As a larger program, the CYMS tool is helpful for us. We have a better sense of how many waitlist slots are being held by our Plan to Enroll students and can plan accordingly. We can definitely see the disadvantages for a smaller program, though.

What we are having difficulty with is that some students don't seem to understand the differences between Plan to Enroll and Commit to Enroll and then when do we reasonably ask the Plan to Enroll students to move to Commit to Enroll. 4 weeks prior to start date would likely cause a hole in our program as its tight for a waitlisted student to change their plans (moving and what not) that late...
 
As per AAMC table 8 (2018 data enrollment), 101 MD/PhD programs in the country enrolled 1-22 students in their 2018 classes. Only 27 programs enrolled 10 or more MD/PhD students in their 2018 matriculating class, which means that 74 programs would have been in the dark (almost 3 out of 4 programs). We will be addressing this at our national conference in July and AAMC would get an earful... Somehow earlier in season, the aggregate CYMS report had a group threshold of 5 (rather than 10) for the in-state and/or out-state applicant groups. If the threshold for our current reports had been 5 rather than 10, then 60 (rather than 27) out of the 101 programs would have had a bit more of information.

@MSTPadvocate - the request for "commit to enroll" is supposed to be not sooner than 21 days prior to orientation/matriculation.
See: https://www.aamc.org/download/490202/data/choose-you-rmedical-school-tool.pdf
Timeline is also a point for discussion....
 
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I understand that the new traffic rules for this cycle were developed with the applicants best interest theoretically in mind, making our privacy a priority. Any idea if they took actual opinions of applicants into account in this decision making? At this point in the cycle it really feels like everything about these new rules has been a lose lose scenario all the way around.
 
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