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So if there is a larger gap between # of positions offered - # filled by U.S. seniors -> less competitive specialty?
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Man, the greatest increase in applicants came from DO with a whopping ~1,000 more people than last year. At least the percentage matched stayed the same.
Definitely not a positive trend with the continued increase in new schools/satalite campuses and larger class sizes.
Definitely not a positive trend with the continued increase in new schools/satalite campuses and larger class sizes.
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Generally that seems to be the case. Idk what went on with psych this year.
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Drastically increasing the residency slots is not really in our best interests.
Yes it’s unfortunate that the schools are shortsighted as they are, or that they are effectively hoping to force the hand of those in charge of residency program sizes. But hopefully the bottleneck still occurs at this stage, otherwise our profession goes the way of the lawyers.
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That’s a lot of new bone wizards. Jeez.
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After the merger there will be more total # of slots which should help MD students, yeah?
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probably. The AOA residencies will still give preference to DO's, but now atleast the MDs get to apply. The superstars on the DO side were already applying ACGME. Lower performing MD students might have to contend with more competition from Moderately to well performing DO's for the same spots in things like Psych, GS, University IM. But honestly they were already competiting with 240+ Imgs on that front.
I dont think it is a big deal for MD's and opens up a few more spots in super competitive specialties.
The lowest performing MD and DO students are gonna have a bad time, but the lowest performing MD students atleast have affiliated residencies and home programs to help out the DO's dont usually have that.
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AnatomyGrey12
Agree with everything else you said but this actually isn’t true. The superstars tend to be offered multiple AOA spots in their specialty of choice and often take it because they don’t want to deal with the hassle of going through with ACGME. I know for a fact there were 5 + DOs this year with double digit ACGME ENT interviews... and they all matched through the AOA match.
Another school I’m pretty familiar with had 3 people last year with 260+ and had decent ACGME chances based on number of interviews and they all took the ortho spots offered to them in the AOA match.
The merger will really benefit these people as they now won’t have to decide between a guaranteed spot in their specialty of choice (with decent fellowship opportunities too) or taking a huge risk simply for a slightly more recognizable program name.
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Thanks, Didnt realize it played out like that. I think it might be harder for them then tho, since you go frorm a sure thing to a non sure thing. I also thought that AOA match was after ACGME match.
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AnatomyGrey12
Yeah it happens in February. I can’t even describe I happy I am I don’t have to deal with two matches and trying to balance that.
Didn’t apply ENT, but this is similar to my dilemma this year for a slightly competitive specialty. I ended up with 8 interviews on both sides, and the program I ended up at on the AOA side was well worth staying in the AOA match. Would this have changed if I were able to rank all 16 programs continuously in one match? Perhaps, but my program has a 100% board pass rate with extremely strong didactics and has a big name association. I had the stats to stay in the ACGME match, but it honestly wasn’t worth the risk/hassle for a high risk/low reward situation. This is extremely common. I would have loved the merger to happen two years ago.
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So as a DO superstar you could have matched AOA and then match ACGME .
No, if you match in the NMS match, you are prohibited from matching in the NRMP match.
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Answered above.
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I wonder how large the superstar population of DOs is.
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AnatomyGrey12
You get automatically pulled from it.
From what I’ve seen it’s bigger than people think. A number of them just use their superstar status to essentially pick whatever program they want in a less competitive specialty. I personally know a guy who applied anesthesia and had the kind of app that lands people at the top tier programs and he didn’t even apply to them. He got his #1 program. Great program, but not one that pops off of a match list or hints at the kind of app he had.
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@AnatomyGrey12 @jrlob91 how many DOs do you think have 240+ and all the fixings to match something competitive once the transition occurs?
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Thats larger than I would have thought. Does that mean MDs should prepare for 800 more AMGs with 240+ going forward. Thats a large number considering plastics , nsg, ent combined are less than 8oo seats.
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AnatomyGrey12
Umm someone posted a link in another thread about a month ago that was a list of their school's matches for the last year and the step/comlex scores associated with each match. There were 3 with 260+, 7 250+, and about 20ish 240+. There were a bunch 230+ as well and this was a class of about 200. This isn't even one of the schools that is known for high board scores. The newer and more rural schools will probably have less than that ratio. As for wanting competitive stuff it fluctuates from class to class. The class ahead of mine is extremely academic and will likely have lots of people aiming for competitive spots, while my class is way more relaxed and honestly probably 10% or less will actually end up wanting something competitive.
One thing to remember too is that there really is a difference in the desires of the average DO student compared to the average MD student. Someone on that list above I mentioned had a 257 and matched peds. A few of the 240's matched FM. There really is a higher preference for these non-competitive fields at DO schools, regardless of board scores.
It’s my opinion that 10 is low for my class also. Like anatomy said above, there are many people with good stats that just don’t want to do the sdn “top tier” specialties. More and more, it appears that top stats are used by individuals to go to their top choice in a field that some do not deem competitive.
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This happens on the MD side as well , its just interesting to see the DO side of the coin. Traditionally DO schools have been poor performers in terms of step, so its just surprising seeing the numbers reported.
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AnatomyGrey12
Probably a good bet yeah, but that doesn't mean they will all be gunning for a competitive specialty. In addition, judging by some of the matches I am already seeing roll in from DO schools the students who look like MD's on paper are matching more and more like MD's. The fact that two people from the same school matched ACGME ortho is telling IMO. I genuinely think people will be surprised at how well the top DO students do and how competitive they are.
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Yeah this is what ive noticed as well, we’ve had people with 250~ Usmle go AOA FM for example and plenty of other super stars go into specialties at locations SDN doesnt consider glorious. But in the end for some people having a sick board score is just a means of ending up where they* want to end up
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AnatomyGrey12
Not everyone is going to be like this, the new schools will make sure that there are still crappy DO applicants out there. Part of the increase in DO success we have seen in the last few years is probably the trickle down effect of MD admissions being so competitive that many of the students at the established DO schools are students who would have been in MD schools 10 years ago. At the established schools at least, the average student is simply better academically then they have ever been.
Also, with the advent of new (or new to some people) study materials such as sketchy, B&B, etc, it is much easier for DO candidates to do better on the step exams.
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I agree. I think we'll be fine since unlike opening a new medical $chool, residency programs require additional funding from Medicare and good luck with that. I'm glad to be matching now than 5-10 years from now.
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Reason for this is mainly due to the merger. The % stayed the same because so many former AOA programs went ACGME, and so did the students they matched
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Wouldn’t these new resources also make it easier for MD students to do well on the step exams? And since the step is based on a bell curve and everyone has access to these resources, it should not affect how well students perform.
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I cant seem to find any data on DO step performance. I hope NRMP publishes that data this time around. I dont doubt there are 250 + studs in the DO pool, I remain skeptical of the high incidence of them .
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Access to high quality study materials even the playing field, the theory being that better schools have better instructors and resources more familiar with the exams.
