[2019-2020] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

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I have no idea. Any thoughts?

I'm sure programs do this differently. We don't send out invites to be on a waitlist. We just create a waitlist, and when someone cancels, we contact the next person to see if they can fill the spot. If they can't, then we contact the next one and so forth.

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Its mid app season imo. Beginning of interview season, but the first phase of invites, the first big chunk of invites, is likely done. Typically Nov sees some more as people reject/cancel early invites bc they just got so many. So usually in November another round of invites will occur, and you can always dig some up with LOIs or the residency fair if your app was good enough, but just filtered out.
 
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Does going to the conference significantly increase your chances in terms of interviews/matching?
Considering going to the Conference next week just because of my interview situation, but I'm having doubts that it'll make a difference.
 
Does going to the conference significantly increase your chances in terms of interviews/matching?
Considering going to the Conference next week just because of my interview situation, but I'm having doubts that it'll make a difference.

Depends on ones situation to be honest. If your app is saddled by some big red flags, showing up at the residency fair doesnt change that.

I look at the fair similar to LOIs. If I meet someone with what seems like genuine interest, or get a message/email from them, Ill at least look at their app for consideration. Both methods help you get your app around filters to get it looked at. But they arent going to change whats in it.
 
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When cancelling interviews (over 2 weeks in advance) is it customary to send a thank you email? I over applied and am very thankful for getting interest in my app, but I don't particularly want to send a bunch of personalized emails.
 
No I dont think its necessary at all. Programs expect cancellations.

Side note on cancellations:

Programs only have a right to get ticked off about it when the candidate cancels really late to the point where they cant fill the spot. Its one thing if there is an emergent reason to do so, but Im sure thats usually not the case. The latest Ive had was emailing the morning of the interview, and people wait until the day before all the time.

In the end as a program, we’ve always accepted late cancellations as a cost of doing business, and moved on. When people cancel, its no skin off my back. I dont care at all if one individual has no interest in my program. But I have heard of some programs taking issue with late cancelations and even reporting students to their schools for doing so for unethical behavior and I think programs have every right to do so.

Moral of the story. Dont hoard interviews, by all means cancel ones you dont need and arent actually considering. But cancel in an appropriate time frame so someone else can actually get the interview you are cancelling. Its incredibly selfish to over-apply, and take interviews you dont want or need, then cancel them so late no one else can get them.
 
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@gamerEMdoc please shed some light on my situation

Non-US IMG applied for EM this year; very average board scores, two SLOEs from good programs (I felt I was a good fit at both programs and did a good job).
Only 1 non-away IV at the moment and 2 away IVs, also sent some LOIs to no avail as of yet.

Not sure if there's a red flag in my app or if my entire app is a red flag because of IMG status and average board scores
Many say by November most programs have sent out all their IVs, and some say there's a second round in November when people start dropping, and that's apparently when IMGs get most their IVs.

I applied for a back up specialty but really want EM.

Do I have the kiss of death? Because it sure feels like it.
 
IMG status makes it super hard to match. That's a HUGE barrior to having anyone seriously consider the app, since many programs just won't take IMGs.

For a non- USIMG, you need to have a great app to match EM, and even then its very very difficult. The SLOE issue makes it even harder. I can't tell you how many bad SLOEs I see from IMGs that say nice things, then rank them low 1/3 or Don't plan to rank, explaining that the program doesn't consider IMGs. It's very hard for US and non-US IMGs to get great SLOEs.

Hopefully you do dig up some interviews, but you have to realize no matter how bad you want to match EM, there is a glut of US grads who want to match in EM and nearly every program is going to prefer US grads over an IMG. You are fighting a battle that is an big longshot. I wish you the best of luck and hope it works out.
 
At this point, if you have above average board scores and an otherwise good application with interviews only at places you rotated, is it safe to assume you have a red flag sloe?

I thought I was fine (residents said I was doing good or great when I asked for criticism) until I received my feedback 2.5 weeks after the rotation ended which was less than stellar. I received a pass on my eval which I took to be a poor prognostic factor. I was very surprised as I sincerely ask what I can do to improve for my next shift at the end of every shift and was never told the comments I received. I would have easily fixed my performance had I known. As mentioned, at this point I am sitting on 3 interviews. I was told by my advisor that I would be receiving a "solid" SLOE from home and that I was a "safe" applicant. I have no indication about my third SLOE as of yet. How screwed am I? Can I do anything at this point?
 
At this point, if you have above average board scores and an otherwise good application with interviews only at places you rotated, is it safe to assume you have a red flag sloe?

I thought I was fine (residents said I was doing good or great when I asked for criticism) until I received my feedback 2.5 weeks after the rotation ended which was less than stellar. I received a pass on my eval which I took to be a poor prognostic factor. I was very surprised as I sincerely ask what I can do to improve for my next shift at the end of every shift and was never told the comments I received. I would have easily fixed my performance had I known. As mentioned, at this point I am sitting on 3 interviews. I was told by my advisor that I would be receiving a "solid" SLOE from home and that I was a "safe" applicant. I have no indication about my third SLOE as of yet. How screwed am I? Can I do anything at this point?
damn my dude, sounds like it

guess which one is bad, remove, shotgun more apps

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currently scored 3 ii + 1 waitlist on LOI emails. decent app, no red flags. I’d never contradict GAMER but maybe recommend people pull the trigger before ACEP goers swipe those extra spots
 
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currently scored 3 ii + 1 waitlist on LOI emails. decent app, no red flags. I’d never contradict GAMER but maybe recommend people pull the trigger before ACEP goers swipe those extra spots

are you addressing the emails to the PDs? Thanks in advance.
 
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currently scored 3 ii + 1 waitlist on LOI emails. decent app, no red flags. I’d never contradict GAMER but maybe recommend people pull the trigger before ACEP goers swipe those extra spots

Not contradicting me. I don't think its too early for those with very few interviews to start emailing. I've told people that (though I can't remember if it was in PMs or on the forums tbh). I just think its unnecessary for someone sitting at say 8 interviews. They'll get there, probably without emailing anyone. Interviews will still come in November unless something is TOTALLY different than any of the previous years I've been doing this.

I mean you could email in early Oct or even Sept and net interviews. Emailing works. Its just there is a point where its unnecessary, and could possibly turn some programs off if its too early.

If you want to email programs this week in lieu of going to the fair, have at it.
 
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At this point, if you have above average board scores and an otherwise good application with interviews only at places you rotated, is it safe to assume you have a red flag sloe?

Yes, almost certainly. This is my answer when people say "how do you know if my SLOEs are good enough". You will know by mid October. If you have a ton of interviews, your SLOEs are great. If you are sitting on a handful (5-8), they are probably average, although there are exceptions (like above average sloes with really weak boards). If you are getting barely any, your SLOEs, at least one and possibly more, are a red flag.
 
Not contradicting me. I don't think its too early for those with very few interviews to start emailing. I've told people that (though I can't remember if it was in PMs or on the forums tbh). I just think its unnecessary for someone sitting at say 8 interviews. They'll get there, probably without emailing anyone. Interviews will still come in November unless something is TOTALLY different than any of the previous years I've been doing this.

I mean you could email in early Oct or even Sept and net interviews. Emailing works. Its just there is a point where its unnecessary, and could possibly turn some programs off if its too early.

If you want to email programs this week in lieu of going to the fair, have at it.

Very possible you said that and I missed it!

Also just want to say thank you. You’re advice has been super beneficial to me. I hope you drink for free all weekend at ACEP
 
Very possible you said that and I missed it!

Also just want to say thank you. You’re advice has been super beneficial to me. I hope you drink for free all weekend at ACEP
good looks mancub, I'm firing some off now
 
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Is low 1/3 basically going to be the death knell as EM gets more competitive? I feel like it already is.
 
I’ve been firing out emails like crazy this week. I think I’ve sent maybe 15 so far. Couples match is brutal man.

Both me and my SO have some stellar offers from places where it’s becoming increasingly clear the other one won’t be getting an invite.
 
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Is low 1/3 basically going to be the death knell as EM gets more competitive? I feel like it already is.

Totally. If things get more competitive a bottom 1/3 SLOE would weed people out. Still very situational though.

With my limited experience I feel like you would actually have to be pretty bad to get a low 1/3. PD’s and AD’s know what a bottom 1/3 SLOE does to an applicant and they don’t just submarine kids for fun. If you show up and work hard but aren’t an all star odds are you’ll get a middle 1/3 SLOE and match. Even a place I rotated that was super strict on the third rules said you have to earn a bottom 1/3 just as you would a top 1/3.
 
I’ve been firing out emails like crazy this week. I think I’ve sent maybe 15 so far. Couples match is brutal man.

Both me and my SO have some stellar offers from places where it’s becoming increasingly clear the other one won’t be getting an invite.

I do not envy you mate
 
Is low 1/3 basically going to be the death knell as EM gets more competitive? I feel like it already is.

if you’re a USMD the data still supports that you’re highly likely to match with a low 1/3.

The data for DO and IMG is a bit hazier...
 
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Totally. If things get more competitive a bottom 1/3 SLOE would weed people out. Still very situational though.

With my limited experience I feel like you would actually have to be pretty bad to get a low 1/3. PD’s and AD’s know what a bottom 1/3 SLOE does to an applicant and they don’t just submarine kids for fun. If you show up and work hard but aren’t an all star odds are you’ll get a middle 1/3 SLOE and match. Even a place I rotated that was super strict on the third rules said you have to earn a bottom 1/3 just as you would a top 1/3.


The places I rotated at said that 1/3rd of students get a bottom 1/3rd SLOE. It depends on the institution. Some will absolutely give bottom 1/3rds to 1/3rd of their EM rotaters.
 
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The places I rotated at said that 1/3rd of students get a bottom 1/3rd SLOE. It depends on the institution. Some will absolutely give bottom 1/3rds to 1/3rd of their EM rotaters.

I’m not saying places don’t stick to the 1/3 rule, just that in most cases a bottom 1/3 can be traced back to specific reasons. Your average hard working SDN EM student probably doesn’t have to fret.

Granted blindsides happen, but in all three of my aways I pretty much could tell where I was going to fall.
 
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Yes, almost certainly. This is my answer when people say "how do you know if my SLOEs are good enough". You will know by mid October. If you have a ton of interviews, your SLOEs are great. If you are sitting on a handful (5-8), they are probably average, although there are exceptions (like above average sloes with really weak boards). If you are getting barely any, your SLOEs, at least one and possibly more, are a red flag.
I have only gotten 1-2 interview invites thus far. Board scores of 240/250. But I've met with my home PDs, who have told me I have no red flags on my application whatsoever and are just as surprised I'm not getting interviews. I know 1 SLOE is described as average, unknown 2nd(HP on rotation, good comments), and 3rd unsure but I got great feedback and got along well with all staff. Otherwise app is solid, good ECs, pretty standard EM stuff. Wondering what your thoughts are, thanks. Am I just the unluckiest average applicant in the world?
 
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I have only gotten 1-2 interview invites thus far. Board scores of 240/250. But I've met with my home PDs, who have told me I have no red flags on my application whatsoever and are just as surprised I'm not getting interviews. I know 1 SLOE is described as average, unknown 2nd(HP on rotation, good comments), and 3rd unsure but I got great feedback and got along well with all staff. Otherwise app is solid, good ECs, pretty standard EM stuff. Wondering what your thoughts are, thanks. Am I just the unluckiest average applicant in the world?

No, not unlucky. You have bad sloes. Your home PD just isnt giving you honest feedback. There is no other reason anyone with 240-250 boards has 1-2 invites in total.
 
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Have y’all been getting invites trickle in over the past few days? After I got my first 5 during the week of county program release, I haven’t gotten any since.
Should I be be waiting for the next wave in November or are people getting invites that trickle in periodically?
 
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@gamerEMdoc I've already gotten multiple invites after only having 2 SLOEs. I have a late SLOE coming from a big name that I'm sure will be either middle but likely top 1/3 - I have interviews from all but one of my top choices so uploading this SLOE wouldn't necessarily be for interviews but can it help with the ranking process post-interview? Should I just leave well-enough alone?
 
It can help the process if your first two sloes arent great. But if your first two sloes are good sloes (top 1/3 or above) it adds nothing and always risks there being a blindsided bad sloe. If you already have a ton of interviews based on your first two, then they are good and a third sloe, even if its also good doesnt add much. The only thing it can do is hurt, so why take the risk?

Now, if one of your first sloes is good and one is mediocre, a third can act as a tie breaker for ranking.

Idk, I dont think adding a 3rd usually makes sense if you get success with the first two. Programs have already made their opinion based on your first two. If its a good opinion, then the risk/benefit of a 3rd doesnt add anything and can only hurt you if its unexpectedly bad.
 
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Personally I'd rather see an even distribution of scores instead of seeing grade inflation. One particular site that I know of gives Honors to 100% of all students.

I saw a SLOE from a very competitive prestigious program that gave 50% top 10% and 45% top 1/3 sloes this year. They had 2 mid 1/3 sloes and zero low 1/3’s.

Now granted, the students that rotate there are Im sure mostly all very good. But how can 50% of people be the top 10% of your list? And are you telling me they didnt get one bad student the whole year?

It just completely makes you question the credibility of sloes like that. Im ok with a little inflation, but theres some places where its just absurd.
 
I saw a SLOE from a very competitive prestigious program that gave 50% top 10% and 45% top 1/3 sloes this year. They had 2 mid 1/3 sloes and zero low 1/3’s.

Now granted, the students that rotate there are Im sure mostly all very good. But how can 50% of people be the top 10% of your list? And are you telling me they didnt get one bad student the whole year?

It just completely makes you question the credibility of sloes like that. Im ok with a little inflation, but theres some places where its just absurd.

I agree. It ends up hurting the applicant because you don't know how to truly assess how they did.
 
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Yeah so I think last year and this year are a little different with the timing. Last years ACEP residency fair was Sep 30th. This years is Oct 26th. That's a pretty big difference in timing when you consider when programs send out a big portion of their invites. I can tell you, I hadn't even looked at any applications or sent invites yet to anyone other than people that rotated prior to last years residency fair. I wound up interviewing several people that I met at the fair.

I think with the fair being later this year, the interview yield will be overall a little less than last year. I'm sure the bulk of programs have sent out a good portion of their interviews. There's still interviews to be had, no doubt about that, as people decline/cancel. November traditionally has another wave of invites. But I still think with the fair being a month later, the overall yield from this years fair to last years fair will be less.

On the other hand, just getting on a waitlist helps. I can tell you, when there are late cancellations, finding someone on a waitlist to actually take the interview is often hard since they either already have a conflicting interview scheduled, or they've already had enough interviews by then. By Dec/Jan, everyone is tired of interviewing, and most that you offer the interview to just decline. So we usually build a pretty big waitlist, that way we can eventually find someone who will take a cancelled interview.

In terms of a plan, I'd have a list of places you want to hit up that you think you'd have a chance at least getting on their waitlist. I'd just stop by, discuss why you are interested in their program and usually they have a signup sheet so there shouldn't be a need for a business card.

@gamer Thanks for the 411. Safe to say then that it is best to avoid walking around with CVs and/or handing them out? I'm still hearing people saying to do this, but it sounds unnecesarily tedious and possibly an annoyance to programs.

Better strategy is to engage in conversation, leave your name/contact info somehow and get the name/contact info of the person you should follow up with?
 
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Programs generally will have a signup sheet at their station. I think CV's are unnecessary for MS4's because with your name, I can look at your app on ERAS assuming you applied to my program (which I assume you did if you stopped by). I know many people do carry around CVs, I just don't find it necessary and I just personally wind up tossing them since I just look at everything electronically.
 
It’s kind of bs that sloes might be tanking you when everyone says you did an awesome job at the end of your shift...
 
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Yes, almost certainly. This is my answer when people say "how do you know if my SLOEs are good enough". You will know by mid October. If you have a ton of interviews, your SLOEs are great. If you are sitting on a handful (5-8), they are probably average, although there are exceptions (like above average sloes with really weak boards). If you are getting barely any, your SLOEs, at least one and possibly more, are a red flag.

What would qualify as really weak boards?
 
It’s kind of bs that sloes might be tanking you when everyone says you did an awesome job at the end of your shift...

Agreed. It’s not the sloes fault that there are bad ones. Some students just arent as good as others. It just stinks that places arent more honest directly so you can try to improve on future rotations, or at the very least realize that EM may not be for you if all your feedback is not good and give you time to go in a different direction.
 
frustrating overall... 22x/25x + reported mid 1/3rd SLOEs with no red flags according to my home faculity and... almost nothing. Home +away + a couple of local community programs. (none of which have graduated a residency class)

Spread sheet says most other local programs interview slots have filled up. If 70%+ of II comes in october not sure where this leaves me.
 
i dont think 4 is terrible. he said 6 before november 1 is on track... but yeah based on your very solid app i can see why thats frustrating.
 
I’m not saying places don’t stick to the 1/3 rule, just that in most cases a bottom 1/3 can be traced back to specific reasons. Your average hard working SDN EM student probably doesn’t have to fret.

Granted blindsides happen, but in all three of my aways I pretty much could tell where I was going to fall.

Must have been a blindside then because I definitely work hard. I've tried to do all the things suggested all over the internet/podcasts/books and when I got feedback to try to take it in stride. Definitely not a perfect student by any means, but I would think I fall into "average hard working SDN EM student" category. I think my first rotation I was still figuring things out as far as presenting, what is pertinent for history for each complaint. I definitely felt like I got a lot of good feedback on my second rotation and was thinking that would have been a middle 1/3 at least, but now starting to doubt that as well.
 
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frustrating overall... 22x/25x + reported mid 1/3rd SLOEs with no red flags according to my home faculity and... almost nothing. Home +away + a couple of local community programs. (none of which have graduated a residency class)

Spread sheet says most other local programs interview slots have filled up. If 70%+ of II comes in october not sure where this leaves me.
Im pretty much in the same boat. 3 interviews from home/away, 2 invites from small places, and 1 waitlist. Each PD I have talked to has said I have no red flags, but specifically noted that clinical grades are just average. Thats their only explanation. Did well on rotations, 2 letters specifically said mid third
 
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It’s kind of bs that sloes might be tanking you when everyone says you did an awesome job at the end of your shift...
I wouldve loved that feedback in person before getting backstabbed during application season and tanking my entire lifes work and future carer
 
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Im pretty much in the same boat. 3 interviews from home/away, 2 invites from small places, and 1 waitlist. Each PD I have talked to has said I have no red flags, but specifically noted that clinical grades are just average. Thats their only explanation. Did well on rotations, 2 letters specifically said mid third

Dude that stinks, I always assumed that if you had no failures, maybe more high passes than just passes than that wouldn't be problem. I guess it just reflects the competitive nature of EM.
 
So 6 total? Obviously not the outcome you expected with your scores but you will be okay if you’re at 6 total right now
You think so? Where I rotated is unfortunately super competitive and while I did a solid med student job, I dont think Im in consideration for either tbh
 
Must have been a blindside then because I definitely work hard. I've tried to do all the things suggested all over the internet/podcasts/books and when I got feedback to try to take it in stride. Definitely not a perfect student by any means, but I would think I fall into "average hard working SDN EM student" category. I think my first rotation I was still figuring things out as far as presenting, what is pertinent for history for each complaint. I definitely felt like I got a lot of good feedback on my second rotation and was thinking that would have been a middle 1/3 at least, but now starting to doubt that as well.

It’s also possible this year is just way more competitive compared to previous years and we are all in for a ride.
 
Is it considered poor form to ask a program how many people they waitlist, approximately how much the waitlist moved in the past, and/or if they are able to disclose your rank on the list? I got waitlisted at a program I'm REALLY interested in and would have to move other interviews around to make their dates work.
 
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