[2019-2020] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

[Listen2Savage]

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feeling like firing off some LOIs @gamerEMdoc

give me your blessing!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

feeling like firing off some LOIs @gamerEMdoc

give me your blessing!

 

[Listen2Savage]

 

[125MGCoffeePRN]

How do you know thats in the sloe? Yes negative statements like this can definitely hurt, but typically arent a kiss of death if the other sloes are very positive. I mean, you have 7 interviews. I think its more likely that you have a 5% yield because you applied to 140 programs (assuming you are truly at 5% yield). If you did, your app may only be getting looked at by 10-20% of the places you applied depending on your other factors that could get you screened out (geography mainly and/or boards).

7 interviews is a very good number of interviews right now. I assure you, if you have 7, you do not have anything that is a “kiss of death” on your app. You could have a negative statement, but clearly the other stuff is positive enough that programs would overlook it.

If you did absolutely know this was in your sloe, I would consider omiting it if you did apply to more. But its unnecessary at this point if you truly applied to more than 100, and also unnecessary if you have 7 interviews already.

@gamerEMdoc would you expect relatively the same result with a Top 1/3 and Middle 1/3 SLOEs, or a Top 1/3 and Bottom 1/3 SLOEs? How much does another late Top 1/3 SLOE tip the scales?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

@gamerEMdoc would you expect relatively the same result with a Top 1/3 and Middle 1/3 SLOEs, or a Top 1/3 and Bottom 1/3 SLOEs? How much does another late Top 1/3 SLOE tip the scales?

I mean, sure better SLOEs = better chances. But its debatable how much a late SLOE will make a difference. Since most places, at least regionally, will have looked at your app and made a decision. Where it can help IMO is for the LOI emails, where you can send out an LOI, and update programs that a recent SLOE was added. If its a decent one, it may help net you a few more interviews.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

@gamerEMdoc im currently sitting on 7 invites. Sub par USMLE, but good SLOEs if the reported evals correlate. I had a late SLOE uploaded Monday, is it cool to notify programs I’m highly interested in?

 

[EM2019Midwest]

Why on earth did you accept 34 interviews? Why do you keep accepting them? You know you aren't going to go on that many. Cancel at least half of them. Immediately. You are directly hurting other peoples chances and you are wasting programs time by scheduling you, only to have to go back and find someone to reschedule. Its ok to just decline the invites you aren't serious about going on.

Seriously though, I mean this, congratulations on your success, you clearly did a terrific job in medical school and on your rotations to have that kind of success. 14 years ago, I was fortunate to be in a similar situation, I applied to about 30 programs and had about 25 invites. I declined all but like 8 interviews, because I knew I was competitive and I knew I was going to match at my top choice which was a community EM program I really loved after accidentally rotating there. I just implore you to be considerate of others and start dropping the ones you really don't have much interest in ASAP so others can have a chance at places you aren't actually seriously considering.

Keep your top 10. Maybe keep another 2-4 you consider backups you know you'll get into. I wouldn't hoard any more than 14, and I'd consider paring it down even more than that.

Thank you, @gamerEMdoc , for your insight and advice. I did not realize the impact on others that my actions or accepting so many interviews would have. I went ahead and cancelled greater than half my interviews as you advised. I hope this frees up a few spots for many of you all deserving applicants on this thread!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

@gamerEMdoc im currently sitting on 7 invites. Sub par USMLE, but good SLOEs if the reported evals correlate. I had a late SLOE uploaded Monday, is it cool to notify programs I’m highly interested in?

Sure, but don't spam 100 programs with LOIs. If you want to update a few programs you have high interest in, I think that's reasonable. But the second programs start getting spammed with hundreds of emails from candidates sending LOI emails, the less likely the emails are to make any difference.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thank you, GamerEDDoc, for your insight and advice. I did not realize the impact on others that my actions or accepting so many interviews would have. I went ahead and cancelled greater than half my interviews as you advised. I hope this frees up a few spots for many of you all deserving applicants on this thread!

Thank you! Congrats again on your terrific application and success so far.

 

[NecFasc92]

Why on earth did you accept 34 interviews? Why do you keep accepting them? You know you aren't going to go on that many. Cancel at least half of them. Immediately. You are directly hurting other peoples chances and you are wasting programs time by scheduling you, only to have to go back and find someone to reschedule. Its ok to just decline the invites you aren't serious about going on.

Seriously though, I mean this, congratulations on your success, you clearly did a terrific job in medical school and on your rotations to have that kind of success. 14 years ago, I was fortunate to be in a similar situation, I applied to about 30 programs and had about 25 invites. I declined all but like 8 interviews, because I knew I was competitive and I knew I was going to match at my top choice which was a community EM program I really loved after accidentally rotating there. I just implore you to be considerate of others and start dropping the ones you really don't have much interest in ASAP so others can have a chance at places you aren't actually seriously considering.

Keep your top 10. Maybe keep another 2-4 you consider backups you know you'll get into. I wouldn't hoard any more than 14, and I'd consider paring it down even more than that.

Not applying EM, but I’ve been horrified at how many applicants I’ve met on the trail have 25/30/ etc interviews, have 0 intention on ranking most of them, yet just keeping accumulating and holding onto them because, “they earned them.”

Something needs to change

 

[Listen2Savage]

Not applying EM, but I’ve been horrified at how many applicants I’ve met on the trial have 25/30/ etc interviews, have 0 intention on ranking most of them, yet just keeping accumulating and holding onto them because, “they earned them.”

Something needs to change

I think you should only be able to apply to like 25-30 programs max

 

[NecFasc92]

I think you should only be able to apply to like 25-30 programs max

I think it should be tiered. I know people with 250s/260s who applied to 80-100 programs and of course have over 30 interviews now

It doesn’t make sense. It’s becoming more and more bimodal each year

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I think you should only be able to apply to like 25-30 programs max

I don't know what the perfect system would be to be honest. On one hand, I think it would be great if you could limit interviews, but on the otherhand, with the SLOE system being blinded, I don't know that limiting where people can apply is fair either, since people don't really know how competitive their applications are. There just isn't a perfect system.

I think it would be cool if there was a way for students to rank maybe their top 10 or 20 programs in ERAS, and maybe then programs could sort by "included in their top 10 programs" in terms of gauging interest. Maybe that would help? Idk.

Sadly, I don't have all the answers to make this process better. I just work and adapt to the system as is like you all, just the other side of things.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I think it should be tiered. I know people with 250s/260s who applied to 80-100 programs and of course have over 30 interviews now

It doesn’t make sense. It’s becoming more and more bimodal each year

I do think there should be a max # of scheduled interviews. Perhaps 15. If you accept an interview and already have 15, you'd have to drop one.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Sure, but don't spam 100 programs with LOIs. If you want to update a few programs you have high interest in, I think that's reasonable. But the second programs start getting spammed with hundreds of emails from candidates sending LOI emails, the less likely the emails are to make any difference.

Thanks. No only those i want to hear from and specifically say they want 3 letters. I’m still waiting to hear from 35 programs do you think there are more invites coming out?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thanks. No only those i want to hear from and specifically say they want 3 letters. I’m still waiting to hear from 35 programs do you think there are more invites coming out?

There are always more invites to come out. November usually sees another waive of invites. Program send out a bunch of invites in mid October, but then you have to realize that a certain percentage of people sent an invite or going to decline, or they will except and then cancel as they get more invites from other places. Once a program get a sense of how many invites they have left offer, another wave will come out.

 

[Shmoclo]

When should we start worrying if we only have 1 interview so far?

 

[Listen2Savage]

When should we start worrying if we only have 1 interview so far?

now bruh
I'm a carib and I've got 4

 

[gamerEMdoc]

When should we start worrying if we only have 1 interview so far?

now bruh
I'm a carib and I've got 4

I agree with this, by now people should have a few. If you are only sitting on 1-2 at the places you rotated, and none others, theres probably something in your app that's concerning.

 

[g0tsnaked]

sitting at 3 non-home/aways sigh

 

[MTCH2020]

I agree with this, by now people should have a few. If you are only sitting on 1-2 at the places you rotated, and none others, theres probably something in your app that's concerning.

Any advice on what to do at this point? Similar scenario. 2 away IVs and 1 not.

Also, on an unrelated note with ACEP19 coming up... any advice on approaching places we're interested in? Dress code also? There's some business casual vs suit talk and I'm not sure what to wear.

 

[DitchDoctor22]

I'm right there with you, 4 interviews from non-away programs and 4 IVs from aways (DO student with mediocre board scores, no home program, I know that's a lot of aways but I felt the extra away would get me at least one more IV which it did).

But it's gonna be great, gotta trust Gamer's advice. A few interviews is better than none - at least it indicates our apps aren't totally sucky.

If all else fails, I've also always wanted to be a marine biologist with an insane amount of debt. So there's that. 😉

 

[Listen2Savage]

I'm right there with you, 4 interviews from non-away programs and 4 IVs from aways (DO student with mediocre board scores, no home program, I know that's a lot of aways but I felt the extra away would get me at least one more IV which it did).

But it's gonna be great, gotta trust Gamer's advice. A few interviews is better than none - at least it indicates our apps aren't totally sucky.

If all else fails, I've also always wanted to be a marine biologist with an insane amount of debt. So there's that. 😉

bruv ur good

 

[Azapaza]

Em attending here, lurking for a student I am mentoring. This thread was helpful for me but I was a much different applicant. This student is IMG, still with pending step two. Only has one interview from non away rotation. Is having your step two score pending likely limiting his interviews at this point?
Solid step one scores likely good sloes, good grades etc. obviously img uphill battle but hoping his pending step two scores are a factor. Thanks

 

[Rekt]

Em attending here, lurking for a student I am mentoring. This thread was helpful for me but I was a much different applicant. This student is IMG, still with pending step two. Only has one interview from non away rotation. Is having your step two score pending likely limiting his interviews at this point?
Solid step one scores likely good sloes, good grades etc. obviously img uphill battle but hoping his pending step two scores are a factor. Thanks

Him being IMG hurts more than anything. Probably much more than when you applied. EM itself is not very friendly to IMGs/FMGs. But yes, it's essentially expected their application should be complete.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I'm right there with you, 4 interviews from non-away programs and 4 IVs from aways (DO student with mediocre board scores, no home program, I know that's a lot of aways but I felt the extra away would get me at least one more IV which it did).

But it's gonna be great, gotta trust Gamer's advice. A few interviews is better than none - at least it indicates our apps aren't totally sucky.

If all else fails, I've also always wanted to be a marine biologist with an insane amount of debt. So there's that. 😉

Uhhh, you aren't "right there with" anyone who as 2-3 interviews. You have 8 interviews. If you trusted my advice, then you should know your more than where you need to be at this point to be safe. 8 interviews isn't "a few interviews", you are almost finished with the number you need in mid October. Many students would kill to have that many interviews. So congrats on doing well! But to someone who only has 2 invites, its not gonna feel real great to have someone with 8 say they are in the same boat.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Any advice on what to do at this point? Similar scenario. 2 away IVs and 1 not.

Also, on an unrelated note with ACEP19 coming up... any advice on approaching places we're interested in? Dress code also? There's some business casual vs suit talk and I'm not sure what to wear.

Time is limited there. You can't hit every table. Go in with a plan, hit the places you think you'll have the best chance of netting an interview. Business casual should be fine. That's what I typically wear. Dress shirt and khakis. Maybe a tie. But you don't need a suit.

 

[Apollyon]

Time is limited there. You can't hit every table. Go in with a plan, hit the places you think you'll have the best chance of netting an interview. Business casual should be fine. That's what I typically wear. Dress shirt and khakis. Maybe a tie. But you don't need a suit.

I wear an aloha shirt (Hawai'ian shirt). Always comfortable!

 

[runthiscity]

Need an opinion. Have a sub-i at one of my top programs 11/18-12/15, the peak of interview season. Should I 1. go for it and schedule interviews around this, 2. try to get the program to reschedule me (have been in contact w' them several times to reschedule and at this point I may just be getting annoying), or 3. drop the sub-i?

FWIW, I did one of my sub-is at one of my top choices during this time and had no issues scheduling interviews around it. I did group my interviews pretty heavily, which had its own issues. If you’ve already rescheduled multiple times and it really is one of your top programs, I’m not sure I’d continue to reschedule (that’s just me though and I have nothing to do with scheduling or anything like that.)

 

[House911MD]

Time is limited there. You can't hit every table. Go in with a plan, hit the places you think you'll have the best chance of netting an interview. Business casual should be fine. That's what I typically wear. Dress shirt and khakis. Maybe a tie. But you don't need a suit.

@gamerEMdoc I saw the following post as well from a 2018-2019 thread.

"All depends on the program. If you have a strong application, the residency fair probably isnt worth your money, you are going to get plenty of interviews. But if someone out there is scrounging for every last interview, I think it can help if they are smart and target programs that they may have a chance at but may have overlooked them bc of geography or board cutoffs.

We interviewed several last year that we only met through the fair, and since Im going this year, Im hoping to expand on that a bit and try and meet as many potential applicants as I can."

For those of us "scrounging for every last interview" what sort of "plan" and approach do you think is most effective for us to fall into that category of people you might interview that you only met at the residency fair? Like what should we say/not say? What sorts of things should we make sure to avoid saying/doing? I've heard/red both yes and no to bringing CVs and business cards.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Yeah so I think last year and this year are a little different with the timing. Last years ACEP residency fair was Sep 30th. This years is Oct 26th. That's a pretty big difference in timing when you consider when programs send out a big portion of their invites. I can tell you, I hadn't even looked at any applications or sent invites yet to anyone other than people that rotated prior to last years residency fair. I wound up interviewing several people that I met at the fair.

I think with the fair being later this year, the interview yield will be overall a little less than last year. I'm sure the bulk of programs have sent out a good portion of their interviews. There's still interviews to be had, no doubt about that, as people decline/cancel. November traditionally has another wave of invites. But I still think with the fair being a month later, the overall yield from this years fair to last years fair will be less.

On the other hand, just getting on a waitlist helps. I can tell you, when there are late cancellations, finding someone on a waitlist to actually take the interview is often hard since they either already have a conflicting interview scheduled, or they've already had enough interviews by then. By Dec/Jan, everyone is tired of interviewing, and most that you offer the interview to just decline. So we usually build a pretty big waitlist, that way we can eventually find someone who will take a cancelled interview.

In terms of a plan, I'd have a list of places you want to hit up that you think you'd have a chance at least getting on their waitlist. I'd just stop by, discuss why you are interested in their program and usually they have a signup sheet so there shouldn't be a need for a business card.

 

[Listen2Savage]

Is there a cost to go to the residency fair?

Do students have to register or just show up?

Just realized i can get a spirit flight for 67 bucks, thinking about going

 

[gamerEMdoc]

The fair is free.

I dont think you have to register, but Im not sure on that tbh. Then again, you have to register as a program, so maybe you do as a student. Someone here should know the answer. But I do know its free for students.

 

[Listen2Savage]

The fair is free.

I dont think you have to register, but Im not sure on that tbh. Then again, you have to register as a program, so maybe you do as a student. Someone here should know the answer. But I do know its free for students.

are you going to have a handshake and picture line? 5 dollars? 10? I can only afford 5....

 

[DrDuck2]

Is there a cost to go to the residency fair?

Do students have to register or just show up?

Just realized i can get a spirit flight for 67 bucks, thinking about going

You do have to register in order to go the fair. It is probably full by now but you could email/try to register through EMRA and see what they say.

 

[Listen2Savage]

You do have to register in order to go the fair. It is probably full by now but you could email/try to register through EMRA and see what they say.

edit: lol already bought my plane ticket almost got really po'd

 

[DrDuck2]

View attachment 283967

edit: lol already bought my plane ticket almost got really po'd

View attachment 283966

Okay nice, maybe you need to register to attend the morning sessions (medical student forum)? Check out EMRAs page on that.

EMRA Medical Student Forum

The EMRA Medical Student Forum is a half-day session held both in the spring and the fall geared to EM-bound medical students. Lectures offer evidenced-based advising to help you match in emergency medicine.

www.emra.org

 

[gamerEMdoc]

are you going to have a handshake and picture line? 5 dollars? 10? I can only afford 5....

Haha. Nah. But anyone who can find me is free to get a beer with me anytime during the conference! Im really hoping to make it into the emra party this year.

 

[Apollyon]

Haha. Nah. But anyone who can find me is free to get a beer with me anytime during the conference! Im really hoping to make it into the emra party this year.

I don't go to any of the parties (except for rare exceptions, like below). We ARE going to an Avalanche game, though!

Just as a thing, I went to the closing party at Petco Park last year, and saw exactly ZERO of anyone I knew. I even gave away my free drink tickets. So, it will be another 5+ years before I hit one again.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I don't go to any of the parties (except for rare exceptions, like below). We ARE going to an Avalanche game, though!

Just as a thing, I went to the closing party at Petco Park last year, and saw exactly ZERO of anyone I knew. I even gave away my free drink tickets. So, it will be another 5+ years before I hit one again.

I liked the closing party at Petco, but the opening party in the Gaslamp district was far better. I did get to go out on the field at Petco though. Even bumped into a guy I deployed with years before while out in the outfield, which was a really cool.

 

[Apollyon]

I liked the closing party at Petco, but the opening party in the Gaslamp district was far better. I did get to go out on the field at Petco though. Even bumped into a guy I deployed with years before while out in the outfield, which was a really cool.

Mebbe me and you gotta meet up for a beer!

 

[pandahunter]

Uhhh, you aren't "right there with" anyone who as 2-3 interviews. You have 8 interviews. If you trusted my advice, then you should know your more than where you need to be at this point to be safe. 8 interviews isn't "a few interviews", you are almost finished with the number you need in mid October. Many students would kill to have that many interviews. So congrats on doing well! But to someone who only has 2 invites, its not gonna feel real great to have someone with 8 say they are in the same boat.

Sometimes for some people it isn't about having the right number of interviews to guarantee a match. It's about getting enough interviews at places they actually want to go to. Granted, beggars can't be choosers. And I know we all like to tell people not to apply anywhere they wouldn't want to go to. But some people have no choice but to apply to a bunch of places they don't want to be at to guarantee a job for themselves.

It's been quite some time since I was in the application process. But I could imagine being an MS4 who's middle of the road in terms of competitiveness and maybe 2 out of my 10 interviews are places that I actually want to be at. I would start freaking out too and wondering if I'm destined to be somewhere I don't want to be for the next 3-4 years.

 

[Listen2Savage]

Sometimes for some people it isn't about having the right number of interviews to guarantee a match. It's about getting enough interviews at places they actually want to go to. Granted, beggars can't be choosers. And I know we all like to tell people not to apply anywhere they wouldn't want to go to. But some people have no choice but to apply to a bunch of places they don't want to be at to guarantee a job for themselves.

It's been quite some time since I was in the application process. But I could imagine being an MS4 who's middle of the road in terms of competitiveness and maybe 2 out of my 10 interviews are places that I actually want to be at. I would start freaking out too and wondering if I'm destined to be somewhere I don't want to be for the next 3-4 years.

I can live anywhere for 3 years to be set for the rest of my life

people "freaking out" should toughen up

 

[pandahunter]

I can live anywhere for 3 years to be set for the rest of my life

people "freaking out" should toughen up

View attachment 284074

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Although, I could see for someone who, for instance, wants to eventually move to Los Angeles or San Diego and wants ideally one of the more competitive community ED jobs in places that aren't total dumpster fires. I would reckon that if they matched into some program in Nebraska that has not had any alumni go on to work in Los Angeles while having to compete with graduating residents from 3 strong, well known programs situated across LA, they're gonna have a bad time.

 

[mancub]

The reason the above sentiment doesn’t get more sympathy is because we all have to go through it. There is definitely a difference between not always getting what you want vs not being able to pursue your chosen career.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Sometimes for some people it isn't about having the right number of interviews to guarantee a match. It's about getting enough interviews at places they actually want to go to. Granted, beggars can't be choosers. And I know we all like to tell people not to apply anywhere they wouldn't want to go to. But some people have no choice but to apply to a bunch of places they don't want to be at to guarantee a job for themselves.

It's been quite some time since I was in the application process. But I could imagine being an MS4 who's middle of the road in terms of competitiveness and maybe 2 out of my 10 interviews are places that I actually want to be at. I would start freaking out too and wondering if I'm destined to be somewhere I don't want to be for the next 3-4 years.

I get that, and its a good point. I assume people apply to programs they actually would consider going to, but I realize that some just shotgun.

Regardless, I just feel bad for the anxiety of those with a few interviews right now, unsure if they should wait or go for a backup. Waiting with your career on the line is awful. And someone saying they have 8 interviews and are in the same boat as someone with two lacks insight into how bad this process causes some to struggle. I cant tell you how many students have told me over the years they avoid SDN because it makes them feel worse about their application and it frustrates me because those are the people that sometimes need the advice the most.

In the end I cant get everyone matched, but I can help people have an idea on how to give it their best shot. But my main goal, for years here, is to demystify the process and to try to alleviate the anxiety behind this crazy process.

Well that and the fact that the match process, student advising, sloe writing, are literally my favorite things professionally. So I cant stop talking about it. Haha.

 

[Shmoclo]

So I just an invitation to be on the waitlist for an interview. How does this typically work? I can’t click anything on eras.. do I have to constantly refresh my email or something or will they just give me a spot when it becomes available. I only have one interview so far so I need this lol.

and is it ok to start sending a few of those letter of intents out yet?

 

[Sader87]

How do programs do wait list only invites? Is each wait listed applicant ranked to determine who comes off the list first?

 

[medhopeful82]

Excuse my ignorance with the HCA stuff... but should I be worried about HCA expanding into the established EM programs in FL? I'm pretty interested in UF Jax and USF, but don't want to risk my training if HCA overtaking is possibility.

 

[Shmoclo]

How do programs do wait list only invites? Is each wait listed applicant ranked to determine who comes off the list first?

I have no idea. Any thoughts?