2020-2021 APPIC Match

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neurorehabguy said:
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, and point out where I am missing it by all means.

1 to 5 applications Match rate = 68% n = 114
6 to 10 applications Match rate = 76% n = 176
11 to 15 applications Match rate = 89% n = 843
16 to 20 applications Match rate = 92% n = 880
21 to 25 applications Match rate = 93% n = 322
26 to 30 applications Match rate = 95% n = 85
31 or more applications Match rate = 89% n = 28

To me, as you increase in applications, you go from 68, 76, 89, 92, 93, 95%. The percentage is increasing. Not by a statistically significant rate, but still shows a relative linear correlation.
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We are in agreement -- what you're describing is diminishing returns. I'll stop talking about this now! Sorry to derail.
 
GradStudent2020 said:
If you have the resources to apply to more sites, and all those feel like a potential good fit, then who cares? Data (like above) can show general trends but obviously doesn’t tell anyone if applying to more or less sites is the right move for any individual applicant.

I know you are excited about the sites you applied to! Don’t let people discourage you. Best of luck this cycle!
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Of course. I believe if you CAN afford it, why not? I think this, much like grad school selection is a very personal decision. There are numerous factors to consider that are most likely very different across applicants. I know several of my colleagues are geographically restricted (which sucks), others are financially restricted to an extent. I'm not rich, but I have a spouse (who has excellent credit), so that helps as I have no income. This is one, of several benefits of being married lol. I suppose what I am trying to convey is, if we look at the cold hard data, while not statistically significant, the more places you apply, your chances of matching increases in a linear fashion. If we were to plot this data and look at the data points, we would see this.
 
neurorehabguy said:
Of course. I believe if you CAN afford it, why not? I think this, much like grad school selection is a very personal decision. There are numerous factors to consider that are most likely very different across applicants. I know several of my colleagues are geographically restricted (which sucks), others are financially restricted to an extent. I'm not rich, but I have a spouse (who has excellent credit), so that helps as I have no income. This is one, of several benefits of being married lol. I suppose what I am trying to convey is, if we look at the cold hard data, while not statistically significant, the more places you apply, your chances of matching increases in a linear fashion. If we were to plot this data and look at the data points, we would see this.
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Absolutely. The law of diminishing returns is great information to apply if you owned a production business of some sort. You *can* apply it to those numbers and say, you get less for your effort at higher levels. However, if you have the time/money to submit more applications then why not? It doesn’t hurt your chances.
 
GradStudent2020 said:
Absolutely. The law of diminishing returns is great information to apply if you owned a production business of some sort. You *can* apply it to those numbers and say, you get less for your effort at higher levels. However, if you have the time/money to submit more applications then why not? It doesn’t hurt your chances.
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Sure. My thought is that if I were to receive 20 interview invitations across the country, which is possible when one submits 30 applications, I would be very overwhelmed and probably not be able to attend them all.
 
NeuroJaguar said:
Sure. My thought is that if I were to receive 20 interview invitations across the country, which is possible when one submits 30 applications, I would be very overwhelmed and probably not be able to attend them all.
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Very true. It is something I too worry about. Perhaps I just lack confidence and tried to overcompensate. I am hopeful, but I suppose I just don't want to have to wait a whole year to do this again in the event I don't match. I'm 31, I really want to move along with my career, settle down, buy a house, etc.
 
neurorehabguy said:
Very true. It is something I too worry about. Perhaps I just lack confidence and tried to overcompensate. I am hopeful, but I suppose I just don't want to have to wait a whole year to do this again in the event I don't match. I'm 31, I really want to move along with my career, settle down, buy a house, etc.
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Hey, fair enough. It's a very personal decision 🙂 Although phase II had some awesome neuro sites last year!
 
NeuroJaguar said:
Sure. My thought is that if I were to receive 20 interview invitations across the country, which is possible when one submits 30 applications, I would be very overwhelmed and probably not be able to attend them all.
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That’s possible! A guy in my cohort last year applied to 14 and was offered interviews at all of them. He asked some of them (lower on his list) to consider Skype/phone interviews. I think if you are offered 20 interviews you have new decisions to make but matching somewhere you want to be shouldn’t be an issue.

Could be overwhelming, could be exciting. Could be neither for particularly chill people.
 
neurorehabguy said:
I was trying to see if they had released part 2 results for 2019 or 2018 and they haven't. I think it would be important to look at the difference in match rates between 2016 up until 2019 due to the fact that over the most recent couple of.
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Match Statistics has all the statistics through last year.
 
I think it is not inappropriate/BS for a TD to point out this pattern to students, though. Many students in grad programs are limited in both time and money, so it can be helpful to know that point of diminishing return. But yes, if you have the resources or particular circumstances (e.g., your specific track has fewer slots as mentioned) also completely fine to go for more!
 
psyche27 said:
Match Statistics has all the statistics through last year.
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I've looked here, but for some reason, I am not finding what I saw. Perhaps I saw it on Twitter; I follow a bunch of neuropsychologists and postdocs who frequently upload tables, stats, etc. in their Twitter feed. It's annoying that I can't find this! It's like the tip of the tongue phenomenon going on lol.
 
psychgrad1986 said:
I think it is not inappropriate/BS for a TD to point out this pattern to students, though. Many students in grad programs are limited in both time and money, so it can be helpful to know that point of diminishing return. But yes, if you have the resources or particular circumstances (e.g., your specific track has fewer slots as mentioned) also completely fine to go for more!
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I suppose we all have our opinions on it. For me, it didn't sit well with me, so that's why I felt it was BS for me. Perhaps others didn't feel that way, and that's okay too.
 
NeuroJaguar said:
Under "Survey Results", it seems like they haven't released "Part 2: Applicant Placement by Applicant & Program Characteristics" since 2016 though, right?
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They probably did it because of the matching “crisis”. Now that it’s over, it probably doesn’t matter as much. There are more internship slots than applicants now.
 
I feel like some of you are being quite pedantic about this "diminishing returns" business. It is a personal decision which sites to apply to, and people need to make the choices they are most comfortable with. I know someone who only applied to 5 sites and matched. Some people choose not to apply at all and wait a year. Everyone should just do their own thing and it would be nice if this forum didn't police other people's choices.
 
Spookerella said:
I feel like some of you are being quite pedantic about this "diminishing returns" business. It is a personal decision which sites to apply to, and people need to make the choices they are most comfortable with. I know someone who only applied to 5 sites and matched. Some people choose not to apply at all and wait a year. Everyone should just do their own thing and it would be nice if this forum didn't police other people's choices.
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I agree! I had a friend who applied to only 2 sites the first round. They were sites that were extremely competitive but ones she was interested in but she knew she probably would be rejected. But she did that on purpose so she could apply to as many sites the second round for free! And she got placed at a really good neuro site and is happy she decided to wait until Phase II. People should just do what they think is good for them.
 
Spookerella said:
I feel like some of you are being quite pedantic about this "diminishing returns" business. It is a personal decision which sites to apply to, and people need to make the choices they are most comfortable with. I know someone who only applied to 5 sites and matched. Some people choose not to apply at all and wait a year. Everyone should just do their own thing and it would be nice if this forum didn't police other people's choices.
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Pedantic is what we do here on SDN 🙂 Also, the criticism was not directed at the personal choice, but rather the comment that the diminishing returns were a "fallacy," when it is empirically not such. Your money and your time are yours to do with as you wish. Lotto tickets, more internship apps, beanie babies...you do you.
 
For me, I felt it was worth it, and by no means did I perceive submitting 30 applications as a diminishing return on my investment. It may plateau at a certain point and you may only gain 1 percentage point as you go over 20, but nonetheless, you can still improve your odds of matching (if you have the $$). When our DCT explained this, it was understood that the more applications you submitted beyond 20, the less likely you were to match, that's why I referred to it as a "fallacy." After speaking with Wise in private, he explained his rationale very well and it makes sense. I think there are points to be made on both sides of the argument. For some people, it doesn't make too much sense to apply to more than 15 sites per Wise's rationale, however, for someone like me, it did.
 
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Ryan2468 said:
I sent out a tutorial for all of those applying in my program to make sure folks have their stuff locked down, not that many of us post wildly inappropriate things, but it's always safe.
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Would you mind sending to me or posting the link?
 
On the topic of social media, I would be mindful of what is posted on this forum as well. Certain subfields are so small that it's often not difficult to identify folks with just a little bit of information. I'm pretty sure that I know the identity of at least one poster in this thread based on information that they have shared on SDN.
 
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Who knows if they will chex
NeuroJaguar said:
Sure. My thought is that if I were to receive 20 interview invitations across the country, which is possible when one submits 30 applications, I would be very overwhelmed and probably not be able to attend them all.
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I applied to 14 sites and am praying I don’t get this many interviews 🙁 7-8 would be okay, more than that and I don’t know what I will do....probably skype/phone option.
 
sg1645 said:
I agree! I had a friend who applied to only 2 sites the first round. They were sites that were extremely competitive but ones she was interested in but she knew she probably would be rejected. But she did that on purpose so she could apply to as many sites the second round for free! And she got placed at a really good neuro site and is happy she decided to wait until Phase II. People should just do what they think is good for them.
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Whoa thats a really interesting way to go about it! Your friend is smart and thought outside the box
 
psychlife19 said:
Whoa thats a really interesting way to go about it! Your friend is smart and thought outside the box
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Not sure I would advocate this approach. Definitely make sure you apply to the sites that are a great fit for you in the initial round, no great chance that any of those sites are in Phase II, it varies wildly every year. If saving money is more important than your top picks, go for it, but that's missing out on most of the best training experiences to save a few application dollars.
 
WisNeuro said:
Not sure I would advocate this approach. Definitely make sure you apply to the sites that are a great fit for you in the initial round, no great chance that any of those sites are in Phase II, it varies wildly every year. If saving money is more important than your top picks, go for it, but that's missing out on most of the best training experiences to save a few application dollars.
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Yes I definitely do not think most people should do that, but she was under some significant financial pressure and was not able to apply to many sites the first phase. So she decided to only apply to the two sites she really wanted just to see if she would get an invitation.
 
psychlife19 said:
Whoa thats a really interesting way to go about it! Your friend is smart and thought outside the box
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Yes, she had some financial issues that limited her ability to apply to many sites the first round. So she did what was best for her, even if it probably wasn't the best approach lol but it worked for her!
 
CallmeDoc2 said:
Would you mind sending to me or posting the link?
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I would have to post it on youtube or something, but largely it's just ensuring that all Facebook privacy settings are "friends only", limiting all past posts to friends, and then making sure your profile can't be searched by email, phone, or even show up on google searches.
 
Spookerella said:
I feel like some of you are being quite pedantic about this "diminishing returns" business. It is a personal decision which sites to apply to, and people need to make the choices they are most comfortable with. I know someone who only applied to 5 sites and matched. Some people choose not to apply at all and wait a year. Everyone should just do their own thing and it would be nice if this forum didn't police other people's choices.
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This.
 
sg1645 said:
Yes, she had some financial issues that limited her ability to apply to many sites the first round. So she did what was best for her, even if it probably wasn't the best approach lol but it worked for her!
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Applicants spend potentially thousands on the match process. So cool she figured out a way to make a solid financial choice and continue with her career goals.
 
acclivity said:
On the topic of social media, I would be mindful of what is posted on this forum as well. Certain subfields are so small that it's often not difficult to identify folks with just a little bit of information. I'm pretty sure that I know the identity of at least one poster in this thread based on information that they have shared on SDN.
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I accidentally found a fellow student on DDN because they post here under their full name. It felt weird.
 
NeuroJaguar said:
I need to pick up a new hobby that isn't thinking about internship.
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You could try refreshing your email inbox! j/k

Ugh seriously tho. I was doing well until today (since last year some interview invites for my sites went out on the second Thursday of the month).
 
parametric said:
You could try refreshing your email inbox! j/k

Ugh seriously tho. I was doing well until today (since last year some interview invites for my sites went out on the second Thursday of the month).
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Yeah, the email checking hobby isn't very fulfilling!

neurorehabguy said:
I'm recovering from surgery (since early September), learning Portuguese, and slowly trying to introduce foods back into my diet...and watching TV. I'm enjoying it..just relaxing. Taking "off" from psychology."
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Hey, nice! Seems like you'll have something legit to say in the "if and how you're saying sane" part of the invite thread, haha.
 
I have a question about letters...so is there some sort of rule that you have to include 1 from your academic institution? Or can folks do 3 letters clinical supervisors unless sites state otherwise.
 
Mihiri said:
I have a question about letters...so is there some sort of rule that you have to include 1 from your academic institution? Or can folks do 3 letters clinical supervisors unless sites state otherwise.
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I would read the program's brochure to be sure exactly what they want. They tend to be overt about it, at least the programs I've applied to. I had one from a clinical supervisor, one from a professor, and one who was both my professor and a secondary clinical supervisor at one of my sites I rotated through.
 
I
neurorehabguy said:
I would read the program's brochure to be sure exactly what they want. They tend to be overt about it, at least the programs I've applied to. I had one from a clinical supervisor, one from a professor, and one who was both my professor and a secondary clinical supervisor at one of my sites I rotated through.
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yeah sounds about right. I submitted 2 from supervisors and 1 from a professors who is also my dissertation chair. One CAPS site said letters from clinical supervisors are preferred so I submitted 3 letters from clinical supervisors..in hindsight i was wondering if I did the right thing..
 
How many suits do others have/ are they planning to buy? I have one but I'm considering buying another as backup. I could see myself spilling coffee on it or something while I was away for a couple interviews in a row...
 
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NeuroJaguar said:
How many suits do others have/ are they planning to buy? I have one but I'm considering buying another as backup. I could see myself spilling coffee on it or something while I was away for a couple interview in a row...
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I have two.. just in case I have back to back interviews. Someone in my lab had to do 3 interviews in the same week so I think it’s helpful to have more than one just in case.
 
NeuroJaguar said:
How many suits do others have/ are they planning to buy? I have one but I'm considering buying another as backup. I could see myself spilling coffee on it or something while I was away for a couple interviews in a row...
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Definitely helps to have two. I had one week with 3 straight interviews as well, it was nice to let one air out while interviewing in the spare. Also, helps alleviate some anxiety in case of wardrobe malfunction. You can get by with one, but two would be ideal.
 
healthyu said:
I have two.. just in case I have back to back interviews. Someone in my lab had to do 3 interviews in the same week so I think it’s helpful to have more than one just in case.
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WisNeuro said:
Definitely helps to have two. I had one week with 3 straight interviews as well, it was nice to let one air out while interviewing in the spare. Also, helps alleviate some anxiety in case of wardrobe malfunction. You can get by with one, but two would be ideal.
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Thank you! I will plan to pick up another.
 
NeuroJaguar said:
Thank you! I will plan to pick up another.
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No problem. Now, just don't do what I did on one of my trips out for an internship interview, I had dry cleaned my suit and forgot to put the pants back with the suit coat and left them at home. I had to make a trip to JCPenney which was near the place I was interviewing and find a pair of pants that matched the exact shade of the suit top. Not fun.
 
WisNeuro said:
No problem. Now, just don't do what I did on one of my trips out for an internship interview, I had dry cleaned my suit and forgot to put the pants back with the suit coat and left them at home. I had to make a trip to JCPenney which was near the place I was interviewing and find a pair of pants that matched the exact shade of the suit top. Not fun.
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Wow, that's a nightmare considering how difficult it is to match fabrics and shades... yikes!
 
NeuroJaguar said:
How many suits do others have/ are they planning to buy? I have one but I'm considering buying another as backup. I could see myself spilling coffee on it or something while I was away for a couple interviews in a row...
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I bought suit separates (skirt, jacket, and pants) so I could mix and match depending on the weather.
 
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