2020/2021 Critical Care Application Thread

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Almost done, final stages of sculpting the personal statement, All the best guys!
 
Quiet in here! I wonder if there will be more applicants because of covid...
 
Screen Shot 2020-08-18 at 3.51.22 PM.png

These are 3 program directors for PCCM. Not sure if COVID is responsible, but application numbers are up.
 
SpacemanSpifff said:
These are 3 program directors for PCCM. Not sure if COVID is responsible, but application numbers are up.
Click to expand...

It's taken me all weekend to read through ~300 applications.
Last year I got ~150.
My CCM colleagues are seeing significant increases as well, although our % increase is a bit of an outlier. Our cycle was a little delayed last year so that contributed to the change in numbers.
 
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Is there a reason why critical care does not participate in NRMP yet?
 
Awesomentin said:
Is there a reason why critical care does not participate in NRMP yet?
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Its good thing tho. People get to find out earlier honestly. But I suspect the reason is straight CC is a smaller pool than the traditional P/CC? Just a thought.
 
Critical care will be going into the match starting with the 2022 match from what I've heard just FYI. And the pool is growing substantially, like 100+ applications per open spot at least at my program although I wonder if that's b/c everyone is applying to every single program or close to it. Obviously not all applicants are equal etc, but it's becoming a very competitive field and I would guess when data comes out once in the match (I posted data from a JAMA article from last year in the prior year's thread for whoever's interested) I wouldn't be surprised if this field will be more competitive than PCCM, probably getting close to cards though maybe not equal yet, and obviously less than GI.

Edit: Looking back to my prior post from the 2019-2020 thread, here's what I posted:

"While there is no comparable data to the NRMP SMS regarding board scores/publications etc, which is obviously very important regarding competitiveness, I would guess there are probably 200-300 applicants for 140 spots, resulting in an applicant to position ratio of 1.4-2.1. The NRMP Charting the Outcomes from 2018 shows a ratio of 0.9 for ID, 1.3 for PCCM, 1.4 for Cardiology/Heme-onc, and 1.5 for GI in comparison. Hopefully this will be helpful to people in the future regarding application plans. "

Here's the JAMA article: Graduate Medical Education, 2018-2019

It seems this year it's more competitive still.
 
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timurx said:
Its good thing tho. People get to find out earlier honestly. But I suspect the reason is straight CC is a smaller pool than the traditional P/CC? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

No... it's not. When I went through the process I got 3 interviews. I got an exploding offer out of state (would have meant a long distance/no relationship with my now fiancee/COVID wife) that was supposed to explode 3 days before an instate interview. I verbally accepted that offer, got the letter of intent the day before the interview, delayed signing until after the second interview where I explained my situation and got an offer about 30 minutes after the local interview. That resulted in me calling the first place and retracting my acceptance.

It was a terrible week and an awesome week. I do feel a little bad about going back on my word... but that's the nature of exploding offers.
 
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Siggy said:
No... it's not. When I went through the process I got 3 interviews. I got an exploding offer out of state (would have meant a long distance/no relationship with my now fiancee/COVID wife) that was supposed to explode 3 days before an instate interview. I verbally accepted that offer, got the letter of intent the day before the interview, delayed signing until after the second interview where I explained my situation and got an offer about 30 minutes after the local interview. That resulted in me calling the first place and retracting my acceptance.

It was a terrible week and an awesome week. I do feel a little bad about going back on my word... but that's the nature of exploding offers.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, you're already receiving offers? Thats nice. But yea I hear what you're saying.
 
Siggy said:
No... it's not. When I went through the process I got 3 interviews. I got an exploding offer out of state (would have meant a long distance/no relationship with my now fiancee/COVID wife) that was supposed to explode 3 days before an instate interview. I verbally accepted that offer, got the letter of intent the day before the interview, delayed signing until after the second interview where I explained my situation and got an offer about 30 minutes after the local interview. That resulted in me calling the first place and retracting my acceptance.

It was a terrible week and an awesome week. I do feel a little bad about going back on my word... but that's the nature of exploding offers.
Click to expand...

How could you do that to Baylor.

(I’m jk... In case it actually is Baylor. I don’t know who you are.)
 
Siggy said:
No... it's not. When I went through the process I got 3 interviews. I got an exploding offer out of state (would have meant a long distance/no relationship with my now fiancee/COVID wife) that was supposed to explode 3 days before an instate interview. I verbally accepted that offer, got the letter of intent the day before the interview, delayed signing until after the second interview where I explained my situation and got an offer about 30 minutes after the local interview. That resulted in me calling the first place and retracting my acceptance.

It was a terrible week and an awesome week. I do feel a little bad about going back on my word... but that's the nature of exploding offers.
Click to expand...
Some programs will be offering spots prior to other places even sending out interviews this year. Tough to figure out how to try to balance the schedule.
 
CCM-MD said:
How could you do that to Baylor.

(I’m jk... In case it actually is Baylor. I don’t know who you are.)
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Just for the record... it wasn't Baylor...
 
timurx said:
Gotcha. Also I kept reading the "exploding offer" thinking what in the heck? Haha, then realized it was expiring...
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Yep... you have 24 hours to tell us if you love us or our offer explodes. You have other interviews pending? So sorry, too bad. I know a person who got an offer at the start of last season and turned it down because the person was waiting to go on other interviews. It was his only offer... and now he's in a fellowship for a different specialty.
 
I've gotten several interviews done at this point. Programs are typically are saying "we will contact you by the earliest next week" but I haven't heard back.

Do you get "rejection letters"? or the radio silence imply you won't get a spot.

I know its a bit early to be freaking out, but hey, 2020s been rough
 
Last year offers went out anywhere from same day to several weeks later so...hard to know unless you know of other people who already got offers at those programs. Some programs were better than others about sticking to their timeline (aka, "We'll give you a definitive answer 2 weeks from the date of your interview").

And the only rejection letter I got last year was from Mayo clinic; any other rejections happened b/c I called the program and inquired about my status. Not sure they would have contacted me otherwise. There's no benefit to programs sending out rejections until the season is well over and all spots are definitively filled since people may accept an offer, then retract their acceptance if they get an offer they prefer elsewhere.
 
Siggy said:
No... it's not. When I went through the process I got 3 interviews. I got an exploding offer out of state (would have meant a long distance/no relationship with my now fiancee/COVID wife) that was supposed to explode 3 days before an instate interview. I verbally accepted that offer, got the letter of intent the day before the interview, delayed signing until after the second interview where I explained my situation and got an offer about 30 minutes after the local interview. That resulted in me calling the first place and retracting my acceptance.

It was a terrible week and an awesome week. I do feel a little bad about going back on my word... but that's the nature of exploding offers.
Click to expand...

when you say you explained your situation, did you actually tell them that you verbally accepted another offer without signing the contract?
 
Sam1989 said:
when you say you explained your situation, did you actually tell them that you verbally accepted another offer without signing the contract?
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Yes. There are no rules when it comes to non-Match offers and nothing had been signed yet.
 
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Siggy said:
Yes. There are no rules when it comes to non-Match offers and nothing had been signed yet.
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I see, I am in a similar predicament - I accepted an offer via email and a phone call because they gave me 24 hours to decide( which seems a bit odd ) I still have another interview left and I was wondering if it was acceptable for me to 1) interview there if I gave my word ( and an email ) elsewhere
2) should let them know that I have tentatively accepted another offer but that I’m more interested in their program ( based on what I gather on the interview day )
 
Sam1989 said:
I see, I am in a similar predicament - I accepted an offer via email and a phone call because they gave me 24 hours to decide( which seems a bit odd ) I still have another interview left and I was wondering if it was acceptable for me to 1) interview there if I gave my word ( and an email ) elsewhere
2) should let them know that I have tentatively accepted another offer but that I’m more interested in their program ( based on what I gather on the interview day )
Click to expand...

I’d email the other program now to see if they can interview you sooner.

I was in a similar situation -interviewed at my top choice on a Wednesday, they said they’d make offers in a week. Thursday got an offer from somewhere else with 72h to respond. Didn’t accept but emailed my top choice friday to explain and they called me with an offer that same day

I don’t know if I’d tell them you accepted somewhere else. I think that make come off poorly.
 
Siggy said:
Yes. There are no rules when it comes to non-Match offers and nothing had been signed yet.
Click to expand...
Sam1989 said:
I see, I am in a similar predicament - I accepted an offer via email and a phone call because they gave me 24 hours to decide( which seems a bit odd ) I still have another interview left and I was wondering if it was acceptable for me to 1) interview there if I gave my word ( and an email ) elsewhere
2) should let them know that I have tentatively accepted another offer but that I’m more interested in their program ( based on what I gather on the interview day )
Click to expand...

Just... be cautious.
Siggy is correct, until you've signed a contract, nothing is binding. Even an LOI isn't technically binding.
But... CCM is a small community. You're going to run into these people at conferences, on the job trail, and other places for years to come. You don't want to burn bridges even at places you don't end up going to.

If I had a prospective applicant sign a LOI, then call me a few days later and retract it, I would be irked but I'd understand their situation and I wouldn't think too harshly of them. And if you're going to do this, you had best make a phone call; don't do this by email.
If I had a prospective applicant sign a LOI, then call me a few -weeks- or months later to retract it that would bother me a lot more. Because that would significantly affect my offer timeline for other people and would likely cause me to miss out on better candidates.

MelMcT2009 said:
I don’t know if I’d tell them you accepted somewhere else. I think that make come off poorly.
Click to expand...

Yea. Just say you have another offer that you have to make a decision on immediately. If you told me that you had already signed somewhere else but would go back on it to come to my institution, I wouldn't offer you a spot on that bit of information alone.
 
MelMcT2009 said:
I’d email the other program now to see if they can interview you sooner.

I was in a similar situation -interviewed at my top choice on a Wednesday, they said they’d make offers in a week. Thursday got an offer from somewhere else with 72h to respond. Didn’t accept but emailed my top choice friday to explain and they called me with an offer that same day

I don’t know if I’d tell them you accepted somewhere else. I think that make come off poorly.
Click to expand...

I called the 2nd program the day I got my first offer ( Tuesday ) to let them know that I had an offer and if they can interview me sooner. They said they would do their best but that they did not have any guarentees( they did not give mean earlier day). Thank you for your advice.
 
Doctor Bob said:
Just... be cautious.
Siggy is correct, until you've signed a contract, nothing is binding. Even an LOI isn't technically binding.
But... CCM is a small community. You're going to run into these people at conferences, on the job trail, and other places for years to come. You don't want to burn bridges even at places you don't end up going to.

If I had a prospective applicant sign a LOI, then call me a few days later and retract it, I would be irked but I'd understand their situation and I wouldn't think too harshly of them. And if you're going to do this, you had best make a phone call; don't do this by email.
If I had a prospective applicant sign a LOI, then call me a few -weeks- or months later to retract it that would bother me a lot more. Because that would significantly affect my offer timeline for other people and would likely cause me to miss out on better candidates.



Yea. Just say you have another offer that you have to make a decision on immediately. If you told me that you had already signed somewhere else but would go back on it to come to my institution, I wouldn't offer you a spot on that bit of information alone.
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Thank you for your response. I do not want to be greedy. The offer I received is actually from a very good program. I think I will stick to it, instead of looking elsewhere for the sake of looking. Is it normal for the leadership to give the candidates only 24-48 hours to accept? Seems harsh.
 
Sam1989 said:
Is it normal for the leadership to give the candidates only 24-48 hours to accept? Seems harsh.
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24 hours is a little short but bigger name programs can do that. But 24-72 hours is the norm.

Here's what I wrote about this in another thread...
forums.studentdoctor.net

Pulmonary and Critical Care fellowship 2020/2021 cycle

How many interviews are people planning on doing? I was told 10 is average? I am planning on 10-12. Guess that could change.
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net
 
Doctor Bob said:
If I had a prospective applicant sign a LOI, then call me a few days later and retract it, I would be irked but I'd understand their situation and I wouldn't think too harshly of them. And if you're going to do this, you had best make a phone call; don't do this by email.
If I had a prospective applicant sign a LOI, then call me a few -weeks- or months later to retract it that would bother me a lot more. Because that would significantly affect my offer timeline for other people and would likely cause me to miss out on better candidates.
Click to expand...
...and to be clear, I retracted my verbal intent within 48 hours of giving it and before sending back a LOI. It would have been something major to require me to retract an LOI, legally binding or not.
 
Sam1989 said:
I called the 2nd program the day I got my first offer ( Tuesday ) to let them know that I had an offer and if they can interview me sooner. They said they would do their best but that they did not have any guarentees( they did not give mean earlier day). Thank you for your advice.
Click to expand...
If the second program did not make room for you sooner, or offer you a spot with the leverage of an outside offer, you could also infer that they are not as interested. Something else to think about in this black box game we're playing.
 
I have done 4 interviews and have one more to go. One of the programs filled their spots and emailed me the same. Not sure when or if I will hear back from the others! The suspense is killing me!
 
I recently accepted a CCM offer. It was also an exploding offer and was after my first interview. Was given 24 hours and managed to stall for a week but it just wasn't long enough to do other interviews/get offers.

I'll have to move + family issues and but as an IMG the alternative of not matching is just too distressing so even though its just a LOI, I cancelled other interviews and withdrew from the PCCM match. I am super happy but theres always that....what if?

You hear about CCM Prematch but actually going through it is a unique level of stress
 
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Magicman47s said:
I recently accepted a CCM offer. It was also an exploding offer and was after my first interview. Was given 24 hours and managed to stall for a week but it just wasn't long enough to do other interviews/get offers.

I'll have to move + family issues and but as an IMG the alternative of not matching is just too distressing so even though its just a LOI, I cancelled other interviews and withdrew from the PCCM match. I am super happy but theres always that....what if?

You hear about CCM Prematch but actually going through it is a unique level of stress
Click to expand...
Congrats. IMG here as well. Hopefully will have some offers this week. I thought that I will at least get some more interviews when others cancel but nothing from that end either!
 
Nutcracker21 said:
Congrats. IMG here as well. Hopefully will have some offers this week. I thought that I will at least get some more interviews when others cancel but nothing from that end either!
Click to expand...

Good luck and I definitely wish you all the best!
 
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SpacemanSpifff said:
If the second program did not make room for you sooner, or offer you a spot with the leverage of an outside offer, you could also infer that they are not as interested. Something else to think about in this black box game we're playing.
Click to expand...

Agree. I stuck to the first program and decided to not mess around.
 
applied to 9 programs and have 1 offer ! Why am i even here
 
Just curious, does anyone know of any kind of ranking formal, informal or otherwise of CCM fellowship programs anywhere? Its seems a bit difficult to find outside (aka not their website) information on pure CCM programs. Esp now with everything being virtual.
 
Magicman47s said:
Just curious, does anyone know of any kind of ranking formal, informal or otherwise of CCM fellowship programs anywhere? Its seems a bit difficult to find outside (aka not their website) information on pure CCM programs. Esp now with everything being virtual.
Click to expand...

That would be nice. But, as usual, supply and demand dictates, i.e. programs have more applicants than slots, thus no motivation to improve transparency, etc for applicants...
 
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