*** 2020-2021 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[Fencer]

Not many ACs until mid February. Then, another peak on/about March 15, followed by another peak between April 15 and May 7.

here is updated (and I did a mistake by including Defer to SOM into the available)

Application Status	n	Total GPA Mean	Total MCAT
Total Applicants	2052​	3.66​	510.6​
Withdraw Before Acceptance	21​	3.71​	507.1​
Rejected (PR, PW, RJ)	1354​	3.64​	510.3​
Defer to SOM MD only	9​	3.75​	517.3​
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance	188​	3.82​	517.2​
Withdraw After Acceptance	1​	3.92​	512.0​
Available for Interview or Acceptance	480​	3.64​	508.3​

Now the Available is a group of applicants with very different statuses: No action, Hold, Alternate, Interview, and Request Secondary. Just keep in mind that most MD/PhD programs do not report who they are interviewing. The group with active review statuses have very different numbers:

Alternate	3​	3.97​	516.0​
Request Secondary	231​	3.63​	508.3​
Interview	97​	3.79​	515.1​

as compared to those in passive statuses:

No Action	137​	3.56​	503.9​
Hold	12​	3.40​	504.4​

It means that those Rejected after Interview, might be potentially "recanted"... In prior years, we extend at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance to about 800+ applicants. See post #117. We will need to change some applicants currently in the RJ status to AC, as 188+480=668 applicants. Many of these applicants might not be aware that they are in this category.

Preliminary Rejection	240​	3.55​	506.6​
Passive Withdrawal	9​	3.67​	508.1​
Rejection	1105​	3.66​	511.2​

Also remember, this is cumulative Undergraduate GPA, coursework in graduate school doesn't count. Total MCAT is the average of all MCATs taken, not just the best one.

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[mdphd_hopeful_7353]

Not many ACs until mid February. Then, another peak on/about March 15, followed by another peak between April 15 and May 7.

here is updated (and I did a mistake by including Defer to SOM into the available)

Application Status	n	Total GPA Mean	Total MCAT
Total Applicants	2052​	3.66​	510.6​
Withdraw Before Acceptance	21​	3.71​	507.1​
Rejected (PR, PW, RJ)	1354​	3.64​	510.3​
Defer to SOM MD only	9​	3.75​	517.3​
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance	188​	3.82​	517.2​
Withdraw After Acceptance	1​	3.92​	512.0​
Available for Interview or Acceptance	480​	3.64​	508.3​

Now the Available is a group of applicants with very different statuses: No action, Hold, Alternate, Interview, and Request Secondary. Just keep in mind that most MD/PhD programs do not report who they are interviewing. The group with active review statuses have very different numbers:

Alternate	3​	3.97​	516.0​
Request Secondary	231​	3.63​	508.3​
Interview	97​	3.79​	515.1​

as compared to those in passive statuses:

No Action	137​	3.56​	503.9​
Hold	12​	3.40​	504.4​

It means that those Rejected after Interview, might be potentially "recanted"... In prior years, we extend at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance to about 800+ applicants. See post #117. We will need to change some applicants currently in the RJ status to AC, as 188+480=668 applicants. Many of these applicants might not be aware that they are in this category.

Preliminary Rejection	240​	3.55​	506.6​
Passive Withdrawal	9​	3.67​	508.1​
Rejection	1105​	3.66​	511.2​

Also remember, this is cumulative Undergraduate GPA, coursework in graduate school doesn't count. Total MCAT is the average of all MCATs taken, not just the best one.

Thank you for providing this information, I know I find it really helpful. I want to make sure I understand correctly, would an applicant who has interviews scheduled but has not attended them yet still automatically be in the available group?

 

[immunoguy23]

Hi @Fencer do you happen to know what the timeline to hear back post-interview from UTMB is? Wasn't able to find anything about it on other threads and according to their website interviews have been over for a month (though someone said they were invited for a later date that wasn't on the website). Thanks!

 

[Honey_BeeMD]

I know this is the perennial question for schools that reject md-PhD and defer to regular md, but I am curious if anyone has any ideas about whether getting rejected from md-PhD hurts chances for regular MD interview invites/ consideration for MD program when deferred to regular MD adcom?

 

[jjame]

I know this is the perennial question for schools that reject md-PhD and defer to regular md, but I am curious if anyone has any ideas about whether getting rejected from md-PhD hurts chances for regular MD interview invites/ consideration for MD program when deferred to regular MD adcom?

Just from my experience, Pitt rejected me for their MSTP back in Aug/Sept and later invited me for MD-only and invited me to apply to their PSTP. I assume the process works differently at different schools--Stanford and Vandy rejected me MD-only after rejecting me for MSTP.

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

Hey all, I received a "passive withdrawal" from NEOMED today because I did not select an interview date (2 weeks ago) but there was no time line on either of the emails that a response had to be made within 2 weeks and I was enrolled in an SMP. Is this something that can be reversed by emailing them? waiting impatiently for them to respond to my email...

Do they have an MD/PhD program? This thread is specifically for people applying to combined MD/PhD programs.

You may get a more helpful response in the NEOMED thread in the pre-med forum.

 

[mdphdapplicant1]

As per the national calendar, there are MD/PhD interviews scheduled in Dec, Jan and Feb. In general, programs release invitations at least 3-6 weeks prior to interview date. Furthermore, as applicants cancel interviews due to receiving acceptances, slots might be available still in early January. Having said that, I believe that the majority of interview slots will be released on or before Friday, Dec. 18. My program, for example, has 2 committee meetings in Dec., one that focuses upon interview invitations and the other on acceptances. As in prior years, I would also ask for a few (3-5) candidates who will be in our bucket of Interview Alternates to use for the cancelled interview slots. Anecdotally, I have matriculated applicants who were Interview Alternates. The competitiveness of applicants is improving, and the selection work by the committee is imperfect. Nevertheless, over 90% of our interviewees matriculate into MD/PhD or research-intensive MD programs, and we do take some chances with some invitations...

Now, the biggest question is whether accepted applicants will be hoarding acceptances due to waiting for 2nd visits to occur. That would be problematic. Our institution's President released recently a memo indicating that the were extending the suspension of domestic and international business travel for faculty, staff and students through March 31, 2021. They justified the ban as necessary to protect our university community members from the risk of infection and spread of the COVID-19 virus. While this and other similar bans might be altered as conditions improve, I suspect that the few programs hosting 2nd visits would do that only in the last 10 days of April 2021, just prior to the deadline. Thus, another cycle of MD/PhD applicants will need to make decisions using virtual means.

Hi @Fencer , how do the numbers look now, after Dec. 18th?

I'm curious whether the number of rejected applicants went up after this week, or there is just a lot of silent rejections.

 

[Fencer]

If you are taking a week or 10 days off from checking your email and stressing about the cycle, this is the SLOWEST 10 days of the entire cycle. Between Today (12/24) and Monday after New Year celebration (1/4). Enjoy yourselves, have a mental floss week... Cherish the moments as this is a journey, not a destination.

Here are the dataset as of the overnight sync of 12.24.20:

Action	n	Total GPA Mean	Total MCAT
Total MD/PhD Applicants	2058	3.66	510.5
Withdrew Before AC (WB)	20	3.71	507.8
Defer to SOM MD (DR)	7	3.70	517.4
Rejected Groups (PR,PW,RJ)	1343	3.63	510.0
At least 1 MD/PhD AC	257	3.82	517.3
Withdrew After AC (WA)	3	3.75	514.0
Current MD/PhD AC	254	3.82	517.3
Available Active (AL,RS,IN)	291	3.66	509.8
Available Passive (NA,HO)	140	3.57	504.1

 

[AZDev]

Am I missing something? Something doesn't seem to add up about the conversion between the Dec. 15th numbers and Dec. 24th.

N: 2052 --> 2058 = +6
WB: 21 --> 20 = -1
WA: 1 --> 3 = +2
Defer SOM: 9 --> 7 = -2
R: 1354 --> 1343 = -11
AC: 188 --> 257 = +69
Available: 480 --> 291+140 (431) = -49

- 49 = X + 6(new) + 1 (WB) + 2 (D.SOM) + 11 (R) = X + 20 (edited)
X = -49 - 20 = -69 change in available
Change in acceptances = +69

So where are the +2 coming from? Adds up fine now.
(If corrections are made below, I will update them here)

If you are taking a week or 10 days off from checking your email and stressing about the cycle, this is the SLOWEST 10 days of the entire cycle. Between Today (12/24) and Monday after New Year celebration (1/4). Enjoy yourselves, have a mental floss week... Cherish the moments as this is a journey, not a destination.

Here are the dataset as of the overnight sync of 12.24.20:

Action	n	Total GPA Mean	Total MCAT
Total MD/PhD Applicants	2058	3.66	510.5
Withdrew Before AC (WB)	20	3.71	507.8
Defer to SOM MD (DR)	7	3.70	517.4
Rejected Groups (PR,PW,RJ)	1343	3.63	510.0
At least 1 MD/PhD AC	257	3.82	517.3
Withdrew After AC (WA)	3	3.75	514.0
Current MD/PhD AC	254	3.82	517.3
Available Active (AL,RS,IN)	291	3.66	509.8
Available Passive (NA,HO)	140	3.57	504.1

 

[cowhorse]

I think WA change is counted in AC change already, and should be removed from the equation. if wants to include WA, then 254 (current AC) should be used in equation.

 

[Fencer]

@cowhorse was correct at indicating that the WA group requires receiving at least 1 MD/PhD AC in order to withdraw.

Here is the overnight sync data - 10.28.2020

Action​		n​	Total GPA Mean​	Total MCAT​
Total MD/PhD Applicants		2058​	3.66​	510.54​
Withdrew before AC (WA)		19​	3.69​	507.33​
Referred to SOM (DR)		7​	3.70​	517.43​
Group Rejection (PR,PW,RJ)		1338​	3.63​	509.95​
At least one MD/PhD Acceptance (AC,DF,EM,MA,RA,WA)		264​	3.81​	517.13​
	Withdrew after AC (WA)	3​	3.75​	514.01​
	Current MD/PhD class (AC)	261​	3.81​	517.15​
Available for AC - Active		290​	3.66​	509.75​
Available for AC - Passive		140​	3.57​	504.11​

 

[mdphd123j]

Barring a cancellation, what is the shortest notice an applicant would receive prior to interviewing? i.e., if a program’s final interview date is in mid-January, should we reasonably assume rejection by this point?

 

[Snaketail]

Barring a cancellation, what is the shortest notice an applicant would receive prior to interviewing? i.e., if a program’s final interview date is in mid-January, should we reasonably assume rejection by this point?

N=1, but a few months ago I got an II from a program with six days notice. I’m assuming I was a fill-in, but I suspect that some programs could have similar or shorter turn-around times (especially for their final slots which may be more prone to cancellations). I’m sure someone like @Fencer has encountered cases with even shorter notice.

 

[neurofanatic213]

N=1, but a few months ago I got an II from a program with six days notice. I’m assuming I was a fill-in, but I suspect that some programs could have similar or shorter turn-around times (especially for their final slots which may be more prone to cancellations). I’m sure someone like @Fencer has encountered cases with even shorter notice.

We can say N=2 at least because I just got an II with the same turnaround time.

 

[Maebea]

Virtual interviews have made short turnarounds very possible. Pre-COVID, we would have a 2-week lead time for interviews. Now we could theoretically cut that lead time to 24 hours. Still, we plan to pare the interview waitlist down to 5 when we get within 2 weeks of our last interview. No use making people wait needlessly for a decision.

 

[The_biologist]

We can say N=2 at least because I just got an II with the same turnaround time.

N=3. I also got an interview invite 8 days before the interview itself.

It's seeming more common than one would think.

 

[DoctorWhere]

N=4

 

[Fencer]

Update as of the overnight sync (as of 01/11/2021)

Category	Subgroup	n	cGPA	MCAT
Total Applicants		2059​	3.66​	510.5​
Withdrew Before AC (WB)		23​	3.70​	509.4​
Referred to SOM MD (DR)		5​	3.65​	517.2​
Rejected Group (PR,PW,RJ)		1335​	3.62​	509.5​
At least one MD/PhD AC		321​	3.83​	517.6​
	Withdrew After AC (WA)	6​	3.85​	517.2​
	Currently MD/PhD AC	315​	3.83​	517.6​
Actively being considered (AL,RS,IN)		241​	3.64​	509.5​
Passively being considered (NA,HO)		134​	3.58​	504.3​

If you have more than a couple of MD/PhD interviews and no post-interview rejections, you should be feeling pretty good... In the last 3 years, we have extended at least one MD/PhD acceptance to about 800 applicants.

 

[very_worried]

Update on the MD/PhD Cycle as of overnight sync last night (12.15.2020)

Total MD/PhD Applicants	2052​
Withdraw Before Acceptance	21​
Rejected (PR, PW, RJ) group	1354​
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance	187​
Withdraw After Acceptance	1​
Available for Interview or Acceptance	480​

The reality is that people applied to more programs, and people who are currently in the Rejected bucket (Preliminary Rejection 240, Passive Withdrawal 9, and Rejection 1105) will need to be taken out into the available bucket. It happens every year. In general, the bucket of at least 1 AC will eventually have a few more than 800.

For corrections
See below...

How people from "rejected bucket" are taken out into available bucket? Can actually someone who already received a rejection email after the interview be offered an acceptance in the same school later on? Or is it just people whom the school rejected "internally" but did not send the rejection email?

 

[Fencer]

Most often, they are applicants who were changed into the system without being notified. However, I have heard of cases of applicants who were offered a MD/PhD acceptance late in the cycle after receiving an email of rejection after interview. In 10 years of PD, it has not happened to me. This is one of the reasons why I delay rejections (if the committee allows me) and keep people in the waitlist group who are acceptable. However, I tell those applicants that while possible, it is unlikely that they will get an acceptance from me. I also tell people that historically they are likely to get an acceptance from my waitlist.

 

[mdphd_hopeful_7353]

Are a lot of schools actively sending post-interview rejections right now? Or will straight rejections not be communicated until late in the season?

 

[very_worried]

Most often, they are applicants who were changed into the system without being notified. However, I have heard of cases of applicants who were offered a MD/PhD acceptance late in the cycle after receiving an email of rejection after interview. In 10 years of PD, it has not happened to me. This is one of the reasons why I delay rejections (if the committee allows me) and keep people in the waitlist group who are acceptable. However, I tell those applicants that while possible, it is unlikely that they will get an acceptance from me. I also tell people that historically they are likely to get an acceptance from my waitlist.

Thank you! Just a follow-up question: after receiving the rejection email, does it make sense to email the school to express interest and to ask to keep me in mind in case they will exhaust their waitlist during the application season? The school is large T50 school and I thought my interviews went very well. I have strong stats (GPA and MCAT), but a bit light on research (no publications, only abstracts). I had lots of interviews (including some T10), but no As, one waitlist, and several post-interview Rs (from T20 and T50 schools), so, I am freaking out now.

 

[Fencer]

It is too early to be freaking out... Seriously! Less than 43% of the eventual group of applicants who received at least one MD/PhD acceptance have already received their first one. If you have more than 4 MD/PhD interviews, your likelihood for getting into the national class is >95%.

See this thread topic in prior recent cycles (where I typically post the acceptance datasets periodically):

• 2019-2020 cycle
• 2018-2019 cycle
• 2017-2018 cycle

From the standpoint of receiving your first MD/PhD acceptance, it is evenly spread out but about 100 people get it in late January, early Feb, late Feb, and early March, then it trickles into the 4 week period between April 15 and May 15. Now, multiple ACs are sprinkled around the entire process.

 

[packratlabrat]

It is too early to be freaking out... Seriously! Less than 43% of the eventual group of applicants who received at least one MD/PhD acceptance have already received their first one. If you have more than 4 MD/PhD interviews, your likelihood for getting into the national class is >95%.

See this thread topic in prior recent cycles (where I typically post the acceptance datasets periodically):

• 2019-2020 cycle
• 2018-2019 cycle
• 2017-2018 cycle

From the standpoint of receiving your first MD/PhD acceptance, it is evenly spread out but about 100 people get it in late January, early Feb, late Feb, and early March, then it trickles into the 4 week period between April 15 and May 15. Now, multiple ACs are sprinkled around the entire process.

Hi Fencer, what are your thoughts on letters of intent for waitlisted applicants? Do you think they hold much weight and when would be the best time to send one?

 

[Fencer]

Each program has a slightly different policy. Overall, they are unlikely to hurt you. I wouldn't send 10 LOI, but at most 2 or 3. If they reach out to you after a LOI, you will be remembered if you turned down the program. You have to do what is best for you, given your circumstances, which might change between LOI and matriculation. You can send it now and/or ask when is the final admissions meeting (or last that considers updates). You might want to get that information from the MD/PhD program coordinator/administrator.

 

[dcceelo]

if we haven't received any interviews yet. Should I start preparing for a reapplication? I still have to hear back from a few schools so idk yet. How common are interview invites in late january or february to April?

 

[fishberry]

if we haven't received any interviews yet. Should I start preparing for a reapplication? I still have to hear back from a few schools so idk yet. How common are interview invites in late january or february to April?

Here's a calendar with upcoming interview dates, which might be helpful:

MD-PhD Interviews and Revisit Days

calendar.google.com

 

[DoctorWhere]

Here's a calendar with upcoming interview dates, which might be helpful:

MD-PhD Interviews and Revisit Days

calendar.google.com

Does Chapel Hill really interview the week before April 30th... Talk about late interviews

 

[Fencer]

Update from overnight sync for 02.01.2021 (does not include ACs from today):

Total MD/PhD Applicants		2059​	3.66​	510.54​
Withdrew Before AC		27​	3.58​	508.20​
Rejected (PR,PW,RJ)		1403​	3.62​	509.21​
At least 1 MD/PhD AC		419​	3.82​	517.06​
	Withdrew After AC	4​	3.89​	517.00​
	Current AC	415​	3.82​	517.06​
Actively Available (AL,RS,IN)		98​	3.62​	507.48​
Passively available (NA,HO)		112​	3.56​	504.18​

As a reminder, by the end of the cycle, we should have a little over 800 people with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance. If you add the numbers, it is clear that a substantial number of people who have been placed (perhaps silently) by admission officers into the Rejected groups will be reversed into ACs. If you have interviewed in 3 or more MD/PhD programs and have not been rejected as of yet, you should be in a very good spot... It is also clear that the MCAT/cGPAs will also fall down by end of the cycle.

 

[drdr2be]

Update from overnight sync for 02.01.2021 (does not include ACs from today):

Total MD/PhD Applicants		2059​	3.66​	510.54​
Withdrew Before AC		27​	3.58​	508.20​
Rejected (PR,PW,RJ)		1403​	3.62​	509.21​
At least 1 MD/PhD AC		419​	3.82​	517.06​
	Withdrew After AC	4​	3.89​	517.00​
	Current AC	415​	3.82​	517.06​
Actively Available (AL,RS,IN)		98​	3.62​	507.48​
Passively available (NA,HO)		112​	3.56​	504.18​

As a reminder, by the end of the cycle, we should have a little over 800 people with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance. If you add the numbers, it is clear that a substantial number of people who have been placed (perhaps silently) by admission officers into the Rejected groups will be reversed into ACs. If you have interviewed in 3 or more MD/PhD programs and have not been rejected as of yet, you should be in a very good spot... It is also clear that the MCAT/cGPAs will also fall down by end of the cycle.

I presume this is for programs that haven't reached the end of their expressed interview days?

 

[mdphd_hopeful_7353]

I interviewed at quite a few schools early in the interview season (September/October) but haven’t heard from any yet. If I sent an update in December is it appropriate to reach out again with continued interest even if I don’t have any more major updates?

 

[dcceelo]

@Fencer. Are the people in the rejected group automatically placed there? I am still kinda confused. For example if a person has like a 1.0 GPA and like 472 MCAT do they get automatically placed there once they get all of the rejections from the schools they applied to or do they get placed there right away regardless?

 

[Fencer]

This is the best admission action for the applicant. The national system has a reporting tool that has an algorithm like the following (AC is better than IN > RJ, etc.). Each applicant is counted and placed in their most advanced/higher value location for the sum of all their applications. Every school has a portal/software where they move applicants into the different admission buckets. Some admission officers might actually not be aware that some of these buckets are associated with formal admission actions, but they should know. In my school, I am the person doing that for MD/PhD applicants so I know which buckets are associated with admission actions and which ones are not (used for preliminary decisions). We are able to change these actions until the very last day when the cycle ends.

So, take your hypothetical... Applicant "lowest benchmark" often will be placed there by each of the schools into Prelim Rejection (PR) bucket by 5, Rejection (RJ) bucket by 6, and one school doesn't do anything (keeping this applicant in No Final Action assigned), this applicant will be placed in No Final Action (NA), as the algorithm finds it the "best" result. The day that the admission officer moves this applicant into the PR or RJ, the applicant will appear as PR because the algorithm finds it as slightly better than RJ. Hope that it helps...

 

[packratlabrat]

This is the best admission action for the applicant. The national system has a reporting tool that has an algorithm like the following (AC is better than IN > RJ, etc.). Each applicant is counted and placed in their most advanced/higher value location for the sum of all their applications. Every school has a portal/software where they move applicants into the different admission buckets. Some admission officers might actually not be aware that some of these buckets are associated with formal admission actions, but they should know. In my school, I am the person doing that for MD/PhD applicants so I know which buckets are associated with admission actions and which ones are not (used for preliminary decisions). We are able to change these actions until the very last day when the cycle ends.

So, take your hypothetical... Applicant "lowest benchmark" often will be placed there by each of the schools into Prelim Rejection (PR) bucket by 5, Rejection (RJ) bucket by 6, and one school doesn't do anything (keeping this applicant in No Final Action assigned), this applicant will be placed in No Final Action (NA), as the algorithm finds it the "best" result. The day that the admission officer moves this applicant into the PR or RJ, the applicant will appear as PR because the algorithm finds it as slightly better than RJ. Hope that it helps...

Hi Fencer, is it common for MD/Ph.D. programs to have multiple waitlists like MD Programs do (Ex. High priority WL, medium priority WL, alternate WL)? If so, does this mean a high priority WL would have to be exhausted before moving to the next WL?

 

[Fencer]

Yes, it is common to have multiple waitlist groups like MD programs, but they are also more complex. Most MSTPs have a targeted class of 5-12 students. Very few - I typically like to say there are no more than 13 programs with >13 slots, and only 2 in the 20s - have more. When you are dealing with small class size numbers, programs do not have hard-core ranking lists to fill a relatively small class. We have priority groups, and we pick the next person who fulfills at least 3-5 attributes (general area of research interest, gender, diversity, etc.) within that priority group. I can't have 7 neuroscientists, or 8 cancer biologists, or a class of only guys, etc. Each class works as a cohort that helps each other during medical school, and as they grow and mature as scientists. People can change, but you get the idea... So, I do rank everybody based upon what our metrics have, but I jump (most often temporarily) over some others. The policies in every program are different. Some programs do what I said above for the next class of students rather than for the class. There is no hard quotas, but a class that enrich the group...

The questions that you need to ask are: 1) whether they have use historically their waitlist very actively, 2) what percentage of their matriculants came from their March waitlist, 3) about when the activate their WL, and 4) when the majority of their acceptances were given out of WL. In the big picture, I try to be as transparent as I can with my WL applicants.

Now, it should be clear to you by now, that I like numbers, datasets, and have a reasonable pulse on my admissions, but that might not be the case for all directors or administrators. I have overseen this for over a decade. This cycle is different, not even like last cycle when virtual 2nd visits had to occur. While I am hopeful that conditions might improve to allow a face-to-face 2nd visit, many of you might end up having to make a decision based upon a virtual environment...

 

[Maebea]

To follow up on my pal Fencer's post, MD-PhD programs tend to have a more handcrafted class than their MD counterparts. A big reason for this is the sheer numbers difference between the two: MD admissions is a high throughput operation, while MD-PhD is highly curated. Another reason is that the work of MD-PhD programs is just beginning when the student enrolls. MD admissions committees just need to figure out how to get students in the door; MD-PhD programs need to figure out how to get them out the door and onto the physician scientist track in a reasonable amount of time. We have to live with our admissions "mistakes"; on the MD side, mistakes are the problem of the dean of student affairs.

Our program has a short, unranked waitlist of about 10% of the people we interviewed. We feel that all the individuals on the list are roughly equivalent to one another and to the people who have already been offered admission. Therefore, we look at things like demographic attributes, scientific interests, personal characteristics, etc. We also consider the level of interest in our program that the individual has demonstrated. This may be in the form of a letter of intent, follow-up emails or phone calls. When we have an open slot, we can only make one offer; therefore it makes sense to make that offer to an individual who has expressed strong interest in the program. If we instead make the offer to the applicant who seems to be the "best" but has been rather blase about our program, there is a greater chance that we will need to make another offer when they turn us down. Worse still, they may take weeks or months to do so, and that lost time might cause others on the waitlist to lose interest in our program.

 

[mdphdapplicant1]

To follow up on my pal Fencer's post, MD-PhD programs tend to have a more handcrafted class than their MD counterparts. A big reason for this is the sheer numbers difference between the two: MD admissions is a high throughput operation, while MD-PhD is highly curated. Another reason is that the work of MD-PhD programs is just beginning when the student enrolls. MD admissions committees just need to figure out how to get students in the door; MD-PhD programs need to figure out how to get them out the door and onto the physician scientist track in a reasonable amount of time. We have to live with our admissions "mistakes"; on the MD side, mistakes are the problem of the dean of student affairs.

Our program has a short, unranked waitlist of about 10% of the people we interviewed. We feel that all the individuals on the list are roughly equivalent to one another and to the people who have already been offered admission. Therefore, we look at things like demographic attributes, scientific interests, personal characteristics, etc. We also consider the level of interest in our program that the individual has demonstrated. This may be in the form of a letter of intent, follow-up emails or phone calls. When we have an open slot, we can only make one offer; therefore it makes sense to make that offer to an individual who has expressed strong interest in the program. If we instead make the offer to the applicant who seems to be the "best" but has been rather blase about our program, there is a greater chance that we will need to make another offer when they turn us down. Worse still, they may take weeks or months to do so, and that lost time might cause others on the waitlist to lose interest in our program.

How frequent do you recommend sending follow-up emails? If there is not much to update/we've shared "continued interest"/"why us" already, what else would you recommend us share?

 

[Maebea]

How frequent do you recommend sending follow-up emails? If there is not much to update/we've shared "continued interest"/"why us" already, what else would you recommend us share?

It depends whether the program does rolling or single-date admissions. For single date admissions, you should send a follow-up 1-2 weeks before the decision date. It can be more difficult with rolling admissions since you do not know when your application might be reviewed; I would recommend a follow-up shortly after your interview. The next juncture would be after March 15, the time by which programs must make at least as many offers as they have spots in their class. At that point, you can reiterate your interest and state (if it is true) that the program is your top choice & reiterate why it is your top choice. I would send another email the first week of April, and, if necessary, the last week of April.

While each program may have a different experience, here is the flow of applicant decisions (accepts or declines) for the past three years at our program:

March 1-15, 12%
March 16-31, 14%
April 1-15, 32%
April 16-30, 38%
May 1 or later, 4%

We typically make1 to 3 waitlist offers, with the earliest being on April 28, and the latest being May 3. Again, this is just the experience of one program. Other programs may not over-accept as we do, but may only make as many offers as they have open spots. They likely start going to their wait list in March, and make more offers off their waitlist.

 

[Fencer]

Good morning, it is 2/15 and we had a lot of admission action activity last two weeks. Below is the best status in aggregate data for each of our 2021 MD/PhD cycle applicants. I suspect that this year the waitlists will be more active than prior years. This is because I believe that candidates with high academic qualifications interviewed more often... Some additional comments: In recent years, we have had 800-810 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance, which means we still have about 300 applicants who will receive an AC by end of cycle. Please also notice that those "actively available" appear much academically stronger than those "passively available", particularly those whose best admission status is Alternate (AL) and Interview (IN). If you interviewed multiple times, I like your chances even without an acceptance as of yet. Lastly, I suspect that the average MCAT score of the accepted students will go down closer to 515 as we add 300 people with an average of 511.

Group	Subgroup	n​	cGPA​	MCAT​
Total MD/PhD Applicants		2058​	3.66​	510.6​
Withdraw Before AC	WB	16​	3.61​	508.4​
Rejected Group (PR,PW,RJ)		1373​	3.60​	508.6​
	PR	104​	3.38​	501.3​
	PW	10​	3.65​	504.6​
	RJ	1259​	3.62​	509.3​
At least one MD/PhD Acceptance		510​	3.82​	517.0​
	AC	507​	3.82​	517.0​
	WA	3​	3.87​	517.7​
Actively Available (AL,RS,IN)		65​	3.55​	505.8​
	AL	3​	3.64​	514.7​
	IN	12​	3.76​	511.9​
	RS	50​	3.49​	503.8​
Passively Available (NA,HO)		94​	3.57​	504.5​
	NA	79​	3.58​	504.5​
	HO	15​	3.53​	504.7​

 

[mdphdapplicant1]

How do you assess residency match list strength?
It seems like every program has some great matches...to evaluate between two programs do you look for the proportion of competitive matches?

Here's some questions I think of:
1. Is it a competitive specialty? (How do I know if it's competitive?)
2. Is it at a competitive institution? i.e., Pediatrics - is it at a top ranked peds program? Neurosurgery - wherever it is, I tend to care less.
3. Are there matches in specialities I'm planning on pursuing?
4. When looking between two programs, does program X have less "lower-ranked matches"? If so, they have a "stronger" match list.
5. Is there a consistent trend in the past decades' match lists? Do I anticipate the program becoming more competitive given recently-awarded MSTP status?

 

[fishberry]

Kind of, sort of related to the post above: can anyone please give me a little info on what makes an MD-PhD student competitive for residency? I would think for MD-only students, these characteristics might be scores, extracurriculars, maybe research depending on the specialty? Is this the same for MD-PhDs? For MD-PhDs, is it helpful to engage in extracurriculars throughout the program? Or is our research experience/publication record more valuable? Thanks!

 

[Fencer]

You need to ask even more questions. We only graduate a handful of students every year. They are people with circumstances that might limit their ability to apply/accept a top match across the country when you have a family of 4 (or even 6) and you are the primary income. Despite the extra bonus pay, some major cities (Boston, SF, NYC) might not be a realistic choice for your family's quality of life. Or, there is a need to stay in a region due to other family, or just plainly because you like it. Thus, you must assess the "multi-year" residency match list, do you see MD/PhD graduates going to the top places of their choice, including a few in what you perceive would be the crowning of your clinician-scientist journey?

 

[packratlabrat]

Good morning, it is 2/15 and we had a lot of admission action activity last two weeks. Below is the best status in aggregate data for each of our 2021 MD/PhD cycle applicants. I suspect that this year the waitlists will be more active than prior years. This is because I believe that candidates with high academic qualifications interviewed more often... Some additional comments: In recent years, we have had 800-810 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance, which means we still have about 300 applicants who will receive an AC by end of cycle. Please also notice that those "actively available" appear much academically stronger than those "passively available", particularly those whose best admission status is Alternate (AL) and Interview (IN). If you interviewed multiple times, I like your chances even without an acceptance as of yet. Lastly, I suspect that the average MCAT score of the accepted students will go down closer to 515 as we add 300 people with an average of 511.

Group	Subgroup	n​	cGPA​	MCAT​
Total MD/PhD Applicants		2058​	3.66​	510.6​
Withdraw Before AC	WB	16​	3.61​	508.4​
Rejected Group (PR,PW,RJ)		1373​	3.60​	508.6​
	PR	104​	3.38​	501.3​
	PW	10​	3.65​	504.6​
	RJ	1259​	3.62​	509.3​
At least one MD/PhD Acceptance		510​	3.82​	517.0​
	AC	507​	3.82​	517.0​
	WA	3​	3.87​	517.7​
Actively Available (AL,RS,IN)		65​	3.55​	505.8​
	AL	3​	3.64​	514.7​
	IN	12​	3.76​	511.9​
	RS	50​	3.49​	503.8​
Passively Available (NA,HO)		94​	3.57​	504.5​
	NA	79​	3.58​	504.5​
	HO	15​	3.53​	504.7​

Hi Fencer, I think I'm interpreting this incorrectly so please clarify. If there are about 200 applicants in the actively and passively available buckets and there are still 300 ACs to be offered, does this mean everyone (in theory) from the active and passive buckets should be offered an acceptance? Does this also mean some programs might be underfilled this year?

 

[DoctorWhere]

Fencer mentioned that some acceptances will shift people out of the rejected group.

 

[midi2017]

Anyone know about UTSW if they send wave of acceptances? I interviewed but haven’t heard back yet but did see someone posted in the acceptances page that they got an A on 2/17.

 

[Fencer]

@packratlabrat

They will come from two buckets that included Interviews: 1) the 'actively' available who interviewed (mix of AL, IN, and some RS), and 2) the 'rejected' after interview. Unfortunately, there is no special admission action for rejected after interview, so they are thrown mixed with those who did not interview. Please notice that the preliminary rejection has lower scores. Admission officers tend to us that at the beginning of the cycle to place people who do not make the academic benchmark minimums...

 

[Hopeful_MD_Cat_Mom]

If someone has a question about the waitlist/waitlist movement who should they reach out to? The program administrator, general admission office or the program director?

edit: spelling

 

[fishberry]

If all the interview sessions on the Google Doc have passed, do I assume I’m rejected from that MD PhD program?

 

[fishberry]

Another Q:
What happens if an MSTP does not renew their funding through the NIH? Would students need to pay tuition or not receive a stipend?

 

[Fencer]

Absolutely ... NO! It would be a class action lawsuit. What happens is that the program re-submit their T32 application with critical revisions addressing the concerns of the reviewers. If the program isn't funded for a few years of lapse, if the reviewers were too critical, or if the program was too complacent requiring several years of remediation, then it is likely that the MD/PhD program might re-size their entry classes, but not too far, as they need to be seen still very attractive for the T32 reviewers.