*** 2020-2021 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

Online Graduate Programs in Medical Human Anatomy
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
fishberry said:
Can an MSTP do that? Aren’t they supposed to guarantee funding?
Click to expand...
Sorry to post again, but I want to make sure there isn’t something I’m missing about the funding guarantee.
 
Hi all, can someone please comment on how an MSTP can forgo providing funding?
 
If we are high/priority waitlisted for a T10 program, what would help boost our chances of getting off the WL outside of a letter of intent? Would narrowing down between another MSTP and this school (this is pretty much my plan) further help them see my intent to matriculate?

Edit: I have narrowed it down to three schools for my fellow MD/PhD friends/applicants.
 
Last edited:
dysyurt said:
Do programs provide funding for iPad/laptop/other devices prior to M1?
Click to expand...
Typically not... However, our MSTP provides funding for your stethoscope/ophthalmoscope (~$500), and we pay for required question banks, and USMLE tests (~$2500 for step 1 and 2). Now, those students on grants end up getting extra stuff which might include a laptop. This is a nice thing of earning a NIH F30 or F31, which is every year, you have to spend stuff...
 
Socc said:
As someone who is holding only waitlists, the stats for the Available candidates concerns me a bit. Do the below average stats (compared to the other categories in this chart) indicate that the majority of those getting off of the waitlists this late in the cycle will be going into lower ranked programs? If so, does this mean that the T20 schools will be more likely to shuffle around acceptances rather than pull from this pool of applicants?
Click to expand...
Logic would imply as such since the cream rises.
 
Fencer said:
Update as of last night (4/1/2021) dataset

Group as of 04/01/2021SubgroupnTotal MCATTotal GPA Mean
Total MD/PhD Applicants2064510.53.66
Withdrew Before Acceptance7503.63.49
Rejected Groups (PR,PW,RJ)1263507.43.58
At least one MD/PhD Acceptance727516.43.80
Withdrew After Acceptance8515.63.92
Defer to future year1507.03.95
Currently Accepted / Matriculated718516.43.80
Available - active (AL,RS,IN)31503.73.55
Available - passive (NA,HO)36499.73.44

If you interviewed at MD/PhD programs and still do not have an MD/PhD acceptance, you should know that historically there are about >80 additional applicants who WILL receive their first MD/PhD acceptance over the next 6 weeks. There is still a significant possibility that you will get into a MD/PhD program with all of their perks (and blood, toil, tears and sweat). Now, the matriculating class is just full... there are about 70+ who will withdraw to enter into a MD-only program, and about 10+ who will defer to a later year. Until people make decisions, the waitlists are going to be moving slowly. Traditionally, the weeks of April 19 to May 7 is when most of the musical chair swaps happen. One of the future years, our community will finally see that a MD/PhD match is just not a bad idea, and reduces a lot the angst of this process.
Click to expand...

If there are still ~80 offers to go around, why are there only 31 candidates in the "Available - active (AL,RS,IN)" applicant pool? Do any of the other categories also include applicants on a de facto waitlists? The stats of this group also seem very low with an MCAT score almost 4 points below the rejected group.
 
@michty

These stats are not made up but reported into our national admissions system for MD/PhD. Get use to this. Data is data. Let's have a thought experiment... Here are the MCAT scores of a group of 880:

MCATn
52020
51520
510200
505200
500200
495200
49020
48520
Total appl.880
average502.5
You still have applicants with quality numbers, just much fewer of them. If you keep selecting applicants from the top 4 MCAT groups, the average number will drift down... closer to 500, which was intended to be 50 percentile. The rejected group is a mixture of people. The SOM admission officer might have placed people in the rejection based upon a cut-off threshold for MCAT, some might be an elitist 510, or some number along the spectrum to 502 or 500, with some exception being advocated by the MD/PhD admission committee. I hope this clarifies the issue ...
 
Fencer said:
@michty

These stats are not made up but reported into our national admissions system for MD/PhD. Get use to this. Data is data. Let's have a thought experiment... Here are the MCAT scores of a group of 880:

MCATn
52020
51520
510200
505200
500200
495200
49020
48520
Total appl.880
average502.5
You still have applicants with quality numbers, just much fewer of them. If you keep selecting applicants from the top 4 MCAT groups, the average number will drift down... closer to 500, which was intended to be 50 percentile. The rejected group is a mixture of people. The SOM admission officer might have placed people in the rejection based upon a cut-off threshold for MCAT, some might be an elitist 510, or some number along the spectrum to 502 or 500, with some exception being advocated by the MD/PhD admission committee. I hope this clarifies the issue ...
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response!

I was not attempting to dispute the data, I was just seeking clarification about what these categories mean. And I understand that the average does not exclude even the highest-scoring applicants within the group, but it nevertheless seem strange that the mean MCAT of a group of applicants who received an interview followed by waitlist would be so much lower then that of those who did not get an interview in the first place.

My main question was regarding the number of people who currently only hold alternate list placements: are there truly only only 31 of those or do any of the other groups include applicants who do not have an acceptance yet but are still considered for waitlist openings? If there are truly only 31, where will the remaining 50 projected matriculants come from?
 
michty said:
Thank you for your response!

I was not attempting to dispute the data, I was just seeking clarification about what these categories mean. And I understand that the average does not exclude even the highest-scoring applicants within the group, but it nevertheless seem strange that the mean MCAT of a group of applicants who received an interview followed by waitlist would be so much lower then that of those who did not get an interview in the first place.

My main question was regarding the number of people who currently only hold alternate list placements: are there truly only only 31 of those or do any of the other groups include applicants who do not have an acceptance yet but are still considered for waitlist openings? If there are truly only 31, where will the remaining 50 projected matriculants come from?
Click to expand...
They remaining first MD/PhD acceptances will have to come from the available - active, available - passive, or the rejected buckets.
 
Most first MD/PhD ACs will come from the rejection bucket (but only those who interviewed). It only takes one school to forget or delay (due to a new AMCAS admission officer - not MD/PhD Ad Com -) to enter a Rejection and leave a candidate that they took a chance interviewing as such IN (that is because the algorithm considers an Interview - IN better status than the other Rejections). Nevertheless, a program saw something in that candidate for interviewing her/him. Take it with a grain of salt.
 
National MD/PhD dataset as of overnight sync (4/15/21)

Groupsubgroupntotal MCATTotal GPA Mean
Total Applicants2063510.53.66
Withdrew Before AC (WB)7503.63.49
Rejected Groups (PR,PW,RJ)1267507.33.57
At least one MD/PhD AC735516.43.80
Defer to later year3505.33.62
Withdrew After AC13514.43.89
Current national class (AC,MA)719516.53.80
Available active (AL,RS,IN)21503.93.59
Available passive (NA,HO)33499.53.41

Please notice that between 4/1 and 4/15, there were only 8 applicants with their first MD/PhD Acceptance. If you interviewed at MD/PhD programs and still do not have an MD/PhD acceptance, you should know that historically there are about >70 additional applicants who WILL receive their first MD/PhD acceptance over the next 6 weeks. There is still a significant possibility that you will get into a MD/PhD program with all of their perks (and blood, toil, tears and sweat). Now, the matriculating class is just full... there are about additional 65+ applicants (only grew from 8 to 13) who will withdraw to enter into a MD-only program, and about 10+ who will defer (grew from 1 to 3) to a later year. Until people make decisions, the waitlists are going to be moving slowly. Traditionally, the weeks of April 19 to May 7 are when most of the musical chair swaps happen. One of the future years, our community will finally see that a MD/PhD match is just not a bad idea, and reduces a lot the angst of this process.
 
fishberry said:
Hi all, can someone please comment on how an MSTP can forgo providing funding?
Click to expand...
Just saw no one's responded to you - to my understanding, this is usually when a program wouldn't normally accept someone, but is able to find external funding for them. Practically, you're not under the MSTP grant, but rather under other funding, and thus you're essentially being accepted as an MD/PhD student with a scholarship to cover the MD+PhD (or a portion thereof).

This also might happen in certain social science fields where your funding is dependent on the PhD program more than the MD-PhD, and so the terms of the funding are a bit different.

Generally, though, most good programs will do their best to get you funding if you accept and attend, no matter what.
 
lopezchm said:
If we are high/priority waitlisted for a T10 program, what would help boost our chances of getting off the WL of being ‘prioritized’ on the WL outside of a letter of intent?Would narrowing down between another MSTP and this school (this is pretty much my plan) further help them see my intent to matriculate?

Edit: I have narrowed it down to three schools for my fellow MD/PhD friends/applicants.
Click to expand...
Just replying to get some thoughts!
 
lopezchm said:
Just replying to get some thoughts!
Click to expand...
If I’m correct, I don’t believe schools can see your other acceptances until April 30th, so they wouldn’t be able to tell that you’ve narrowed down your choices and it wouldn’t make much of a difference until then, but I could be wrong.
 
If the policies and procedures manual states that: All interviewed applicants to the M.D./Ph.D. are presented to the Admissions Committee during February of the matriculating year. If not acceptable for the combined degree program the candidate is either rejected or considered for the M.D. program alone.

Would it be safe to assume that an alternate list offer (4 months after MD PhD interview) is for the MD-only program? The alternate list offer was nonspecific about program.
 
dOncTor said:
If the policies and procedures manual states that: All interviewed applicants to the M.D./Ph.D. are presented to the Admissions Committee during February of the matriculating year. If not acceptable for the combined degree program the candidate is either rejected or considered for the M.D. program alone.

Would it be safe to assume that an alternate list offer (4 months after MD PhD interview) is for the MD-only program? The alternate list offer was nonspecific about program.
Click to expand...
Check to see if the email came from an MD-PhD-specific email address.
 
Does anybody know if there are any MD PhD programs that have not sent out acceptances?
 
By AMCAS traffic rules, all MD/PhD programs should have at least a number of acceptances as they are expecting to enroll. This is since March 14. Now, the national system shows a number of 716 applicants who have those current MD/PhD acceptances as of last night (AC + MA). In addition, 18 applicants have already withdrawn after receiving MD/PhD acceptances (WA) and 8 are deferring (DF) to later year(s) for enrollment. In prior cycles the WA group swells to about 80-100 people and the DF group increases to about 20. Both of these increases open available seats in the current MD/PhD class. The next 15-20 days is when traditionally those decisions are made. See my previous post in this thread to see how the prior 11 MD/PhD admission cycles ended.

My currently accepted MD/PhD class has been respectful keeping no more than 2 other acceptances.
 
Last edited:
Fencer said:
By AMCAS traffic rules, all MD/PhD programs should have at least a number of acceptances as they are expecting to enroll. This is since March 14. Now, the national system shows a number of 716 applicants who have those current MD/PhD acceptances as of last night (AC + MA). In addition, 18 applicants have already withdrawn after receiving MD/PhD acceptances (WA) and 8 are deferring (DF) to later year(s) for enrollment. In prior cycles the WA group swells to about 80-100 people and the DF group increases to about 20. Both of these increases open available seats in the current MD/PhD class. The next 15-20 days is when traditionally those decisions are made. See my previous post in this thread to see how the prior 11 MD/PhD admission cycles ended.

My currently accepted MD/PhD class has been respectful keeping no more than 2 other acceptances.
Click to expand...
My currently accepted MD/PhD class has also been respectful keeping no more than 2 other acceptance. This is the first year in a long time its been 100% compliance and I'm quite proud of them.
 
(Sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask this question) Currently I am on a few WL’s, and I understand this week and the next will be the time with the most WL movement. My PI and I have recently been invited to write a methods paper by a guest editor of a journal for submission this summer (I am currently preparing the manuscript and will most likely be first author), and I was wondering whether this news is worth updating schools with.
 
Last edited:
bildb111 said:
Mr. Fencer, if 5/1 falls on a weekend, should we still expect WL movement on that date or would it begin on the first Monday after 4/30?

Also, if I currently have 1 continued review (I guess a deferral), 5 WL's, and 0 A's, of which 5/6 are really high ranked MSTP's (which I heard from an above post that "first-time" acceptances are generally not given out at those schools at this point in the cycle), should I be preparing for a reapplication at this point?

Thank you for any advice Mr. Fencer and anyone else who may provide advice.
Click to expand...
I’m in a very similar situation with 5/5 waitlists being top MSTPs...should be interesting to see how it plays out. Best of luck to you!
 
I'm in a similar situation as both of you^^ super stressed but still holding out!! Glad I'm not alone in this though 🙂
 
Hi @Fencer

I do too is currently at a situation where I am waitlisted to 6 MD/PhD Programs and so far only had waitlists. Does that mean I have low chance of being accepted to a program (either top 20 or programs below 20) since I have had no acceptances so far? Having a nervy time as well!!
 
Hello @Fencer

I am also in the same boat where I am waitlisted to 4 Md/PhD programs and so far am only on the waitlist. I was also wondering at this point in the cycle if I should prepare for the reapplication process or if there's still hope to hang in there.
 
We are now at 782 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance as of the overnight sync (5/1/2021); those were 47 applicants with their first MD/PhD AC in past 15 days.

On 4/15, we only had 735 with at least 1 MD/PhD AC. By 4/21, we were at 744 applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD AC (9/47 in 6 days). By 4/26, we were at 752 applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD AC (8/47 in 5 days). Between Monday 4/26 and Saturday 5/1 overnight sync, we then added 30 applicants with their first MD/PhD acceptance (I contributed to them)...

I will post the 5/1 numbers later (in the afternoon of Saturday).
 
bildb111 said:
I had some hope for this coming week with 0 A's and 5 WL's + 1 Deferral, but I guess the "1 MD/PhD AC" group is now just about done based on previous years' data. I guess I will just have to search for jobs in a different profession in the coming weeks; good luck to everyone who made it this cycle!
Click to expand...
If I understand correctly, this would be faulty logic. You don’t know how many of the acceptances are for common schools thereby leaving more WL activity.
 
National MD/PhD dataset as of overnight sync (4/30/21 to 5/1/21)

Groupsubgroupntotal MCATTotal GPA Mean
Total Applicants2061510.53.66
Withdrew Before AC (WB)7503.63.49
Rejected Groups (PR,PW,RJ)1236507.03.56
At least one MD/PhD AC782516.23.80
Defer to later year8512.43.82
Withdrew After AC37515.53.87
Current national class (AC,MA)737516.23.79
Available active (AL,RS,IN)11504.43.65
Available passive (NA,HO)25500.63.49

If you interviewed at MD/PhD programs and still do not have an MD/PhD acceptance, you should know that historically there are about >25 additional applicants who WILL receive their first MD/PhD acceptance over the next 3-4 weeks. There is still a significant possibility that you will get into a MD/PhD program with all of their perks (and blood, toil, tears and sweat). Now, the matriculating class is just full... This past week, we had a lot of waitlist movement. Traditionally, the weeks of April 19 to May 7 are when most of the musical chair swaps happen. Again, one of these years, our community will agree that a MD/PhD match is just not a bad idea, and reduces a lot the angst of this process.
 
proudofmykids said:
If I understand correctly, this would be faulty logic. You don’t know how many of the acceptances are for common schools thereby leaving more WL activity.
Click to expand...
Since this is the number of applicants with at least one acceptance, it would not show duplicate for those with 2+ offers. At the end of the day, the number of matriculants cannot exceed the number of positions when everything is accounted for.
 
Fencer said:
National MD/PhD dataset as of overnight sync (4/30/21 to 5/1/21)

Groupsubgroupntotal MCATTotal GPA Mean
Total Applicants2061510.53.66
Withdrew Before AC (WB)7503.63.49
Rejected Groups (PR,PW,RJ)1236507.03.56
At least one MD/PhD AC782516.23.80
Defer to later year8512.43.82
Withdrew After AC37515.53.87
Current national class (AC,MA)737516.23.79
Available active (AL,RS,IN)11504.43.65
Available passive (NA,HO)25500.63.49

If you interviewed at MD/PhD programs and still do not have an MD/PhD acceptance, you should know that historically there are about >25 additional applicants who WILL receive their first MD/PhD acceptance over the next 3-4 weeks. There is still a significant possibility that you will get into a MD/PhD program with all of their perks (and blood, toil, tears and sweat). Now, the matriculating class is just full... This past week, we had a lot of waitlist movement. Traditionally, the weeks of April 19 to May 7 are when most of the musical chair swaps happen. Again, one of these years, our community will agree that a MD/PhD match is just not a bad idea, and reduces a lot the angst of this process.
Click to expand...
Is it possible to say how many people interviewed and are still only waitlisted who are currently eligible for the 25ish remaining first acceptances?
 
michty said:
Since this is the number of applicants with at least one acceptance, it would not show duplicate for those with 2+ offers. At the end of the day, the number of matriculants cannot exceed the number of positions when everything is accounted for.
Click to expand...
My understanding....
At least one acceptance could be to the same program by multiple one-acceptance-applicants. Therr could be some 'full' programs and thus WL emminant. It isn’t saying unique acceptances.
 
Last edited:
bildb111 said:
May I ask how you know your schools are maced out on their CTE/PTE spots?
Click to expand...
I reached out to the programs.
@bildb111 I deleted my original post. Could you edit out your quote of said post? Please and thank you 🙂
 
Last edited:
If my understanding is correct, waitlist movement should be pretty much over by now, right? The only news I've heard is that I'm high priority on two waitlists for classes that are already full...apparently people are still PTE so there is hope, but I'm losing it even more with each passing day.
 
onesadmachine said:
If my understanding is correct, waitlist movement should be pretty much over by now, right? The only news I've heard is that I'm high priority on two waitlists for classes that are already full...apparently people are still PTE so there is hope, but I'm losing it even more with each passing day.
Click to expand...
I'm in the same position as you. There has been waitlist movement today according to waitlist/acceptance threads. We still have movement to look forward to as schools reach their CTE deadlines for people that have been accepted over these past few days.
 
No, it is still happening for another few days ... but it is true at a slower pace than 5/1-5/5. Nevertheless, I predict still about 25+ first MD/PhD ACs before 5/15 (vs 5/5). Now, those with h/o multiple ACs might still get out of waitlists creating a domino effect.
 
Last edited:
Fencer said:
No, it is still happening for another few days ... but it is true at a slower pace than 5/1-5/5. Nevertheless, I predict still about 25+ first MD/PhD ACs before 5/15 (vs 5/5). Now, those with h/o multiple ACs might still get out of waitlists creating a domino effect.
Click to expand...
Is it too late to send updates and a letter of intent? I am on two waitlists and have no AC. Also many postbach programs are asking for final decisions on acceptances into their program by next week. I have been accepted into several of them. Should this be mentioned in a letter of intent?
 
snorlaxischill said:
Is it too late to send updates and a letter of intent? I am on two waitlists and have no AC. Also many postbach programs are asking for final decisions on acceptances into their program by next week. I have been accepted into several of them. Should this be mentioned in a letter of intent?
Click to expand...
n=1 but earlier last week I emailed one of my WLs saying that I had commit dates coming up, and saying that they remained my top choice and that I'd commit immediately and withdraw everywhere else if given the opportunity. They responded with a congrats and "We will not make decisions on our wait listed applicants until the end of May" so I wouldn't say it was like, super effective, but at least now I know where I stand 😂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Mr.Smile12
2025 APSA: MD/PhD and DO/PhD waitlists
Replies
0
Views
2K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
S
MD/PhD Significant Research Essay/Hours and Activities
Replies
2
Views
647
speakermain8918
S
visualtrick
MD/PHD school list help
Replies
18
Views
3K
RockClimberMed
R
Current-big-pharma-shill
*** 2022-2023 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***
5 6 7 8 9
Replies
439
Views
72K
mstplease97
M
E
WAMC MD/PHD at t30 school as a reapplicant
Replies
2
Views
633
trilobites10294814
trilobites10294814
Top