*** 2020-2021 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[squids82]

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If anyone has answered the Yale research secondary, is it okay to mention our university and summer experiences even though we have them in the primary? Or should it be more abstract about what we’d like to do at Yale?

 

[Snaketail]

If anyone has answered the Yale research secondary, is it okay to mention our university and summer experiences even though we have them in the primary? Or should it be more abstract about what we’d like to do at Yale?

I haven't written that response yet, but I plan to mention how my previous university research experiences motivated me to pursue a combined degree program. It seems like they want you to write something that synthesizes "Why MD/PhD?" with a normal "Why Us?" essay.

 

[squids82]

I haven't written that response yet, but I plan to mention how my previous university research experiences motivated me to pursue a combined degree program. It seems like they want you to write something that synthesizes "Why MD/PhD?" with a normal "Why Us?" essay.

Thank you!

 

[GoBruins09]

For Indiana they state three max LORS but in the MSTP section of their website they state that 2 should be from research faculty, does that allow us 5 total?

 

[jjame]

For Indiana they state three max LORS but in the MSTP section of their website they state that 2 should be from research faculty, does that allow us 5 total?

Well it better be more than 3 cause I provide 3 supplements to my Committee letter packet

 

[jjame]

Anyone else applying to Minnesota? They said they received my AMCAS and said for my application to move forward in MSTP, they need my AMCAS and GPA and LoRs plus research LoR...but my AMCAS has all of this. Huh?

 

[alienlanes]

Anyone else applying to Minnesota? They said they received my AMCAS and said for my application to move forward in MSTP, they need my AMCAS and GPA and LoRs plus research LoR...but my AMCAS has all of this. Huh?

AMCAS should have forwarded that stuff, I think it's a lag on Minnesota's part. I got the same email and a reply saying "we've received your LoR" that I submitted a week ago about an hour or so later. You should be good.

 

[micro_glia]

AMCAS should have forwarded that stuff, I think it's a lag on Minnesota's part. I got the same email and a reply saying "we've received your LoR" that I submitted a week ago about an hour or so later. You should be good.

I’m assuming we get a secondary app after we get both of those emails confirming mcat and letters?

 

[neurofanatic213]

Anyone else applying to Minnesota? They said they received my AMCAS and said for my application to move forward in MSTP, they need my AMCAS and GPA and LoRs plus research LoR...but my AMCAS has all of this. Huh?

On the MSTP website it has a list of secondary questions. I emailed the MSTP office to ask if they will be sending a secondary invitation or if we should just be writing our answers in a word document and sending them to the school. I’ll let you guys know as soon as I hear something.

 

[jjame]

On the MSTP website it has a list of secondary questions. I emailed the MSTP office to ask if they will be sending a secondary invitation or if we should just be writing our answers in a word document and sending them to the school. I’ll let you guys know as soon as I hear something.

Thank you for your service, neurofanatic213. You will forever be remembered.

 

[alienlanes]

I’m assuming we get a secondary app after we get both of those emails confirming mcat and letters?

Probably sometime after next week. Adcom says they begin reviewing applications in August.

 

[jjame]

UM's low character limit makes my heart go doki doki.

 

[neurofanatic213]

Just an update: still no correspondence from Minnesota, but for anyone waiting on a secondary from Oregon Health and Sciences, I was told that they should be distributed in two weeks.

 

[jjame]

Just an update: still no correspondence from Minnesota, but for anyone waiting on a secondary from Oregon Health and Sciences, I was told that they should be distributed in two weeks.

Wait, I emailed them Minnesota too, and they got back to me saying that we should receive a supplement in a week or two and will receive another email indicating our files are complete.

I guess they're doing everything by hand...

On the bright side, this staggering is nice for those who took "apply broadly" very literally.

 

[neurofanatic213]

Wait, I emailed them too, and they got back to me saying that we should receive a supplement in a week or two and will receive another email indicating our files are complete.

I guess they're doing everything by hand...

On the bright side, this staggering is nice for those who took "apply broadly" very literally.

The email said exactly, “within the next two weeks.” So I just took that as the longest possible time. But definitely agree that it’s nice. I took “apply broadly” very, very seriously. 35 secondaries to be completed this cycle. 8 down, 27 to go.

 

[jjame]

The email said exactly, “within the next two weeks.” So I just took that as the longest possible time. But definitely agree that it’s nice. I took “apply broadly” very, very seriously. 35 secondaries to be completed this cycle. 8 down, 27 to go.

Sorry I wasn't being specific! I meant Minnesota got back to me and said 1-2 weeks!

for a second i thought you had done 35 and had 27 left and i was legit like

that's what the uva mstp kids told us to do in their guide anyway, right? apply to 30-40? we can do it! yay!

 

[fishberry]

Hi All,

Question: I've seen on secondaries that programs will ask if I have a specific research area of interest. When this happens, do folks generally mention a specific faculty member they'd like to work with?

 

[jjame]

Hi All,

Question: I've seen on secondaries that programs will ask if I have a specific research area of interest. When this happens, do folks generally mention a specific faculty member they'd like to work with?

I think it depends on the wording as well as the rest of the secondary: Do they restrict it to research interests only? Is it general with a lot of space, giving you room to talk about faculty? Or is it general with very little space, meaning spend more time on interests? Do they ask for faculty names and/or reasons somewhere else?

Alas, I am but another applicant; @Lucca may be more suited to this.

 

[Lucca]

I think it depends on the wording as well as the rest of the secondary: Do they restrict it to research interests only? Is it general with a lot of space, giving you room to talk about faculty? Or is it general with very little space, meaning spend more time on interests? Do they ask for faculty names and/or reasons somewhere else?

Alas, I am but another applicant; @Lucca may be more suited to this.

I think its up to interpretation, I wrote about research areas if it asked about research areas and faculty if it asked about faculty.

 

[GoBruins09]

I submitted a secondary, where they ask for 5 labs you would be interested in joining. My computer autocorrected one of the doctor's name the second time I mentioned him, but not the first. How big of a deal is this - is this an auto-reject?

 

[Lucca]

I submitted a secondary, where they ask for 5 labs you would be interested in joining. My computer autocorrected one of the doctor's name the second time I mentioned him, but not the first. How big of a deal is this - is this an auto-reject?

It’ll be fine. Always proofread in the future

 

[micro_glia]

The email said exactly, “within the next two weeks.”

@neurofanatic213 @jjame Still nothing?

 

[Snaketail]

@neurofanatic213 @jjame Still nothing?

I'm applying to Minnesota this cycle and got an MSTP secondary invite on Wednesday. I'm OOS, verified back in June, and got the complete email on 7/22. Not sure how much that helps but I'd be on the lookout / check your spam if you're still waiting as I'm sure it'll come soon!

 

[jjame]

@neurofanatic213 @jjame Still nothing?

Same boat as @Snaketail , got it on Wednesday (7/29)! "We have your AMCAS app" on 7/22 and "We have all of your letters" on 7/24.

Also, when @neurofanatic213 said "within the next two weeks", I think they were referring to Oregon HS.

That's right, Oregon High School.

 

[jjame]

I luv u Buscemi-chan

 

[neurofanatic213]

@neurofanatic213 @jjame Still nothing?

I still haven’t gotten anything from Minnesota, and @jjame is correct. I was writing about OHSU for the within two weeks. So far I’ve gotten 32 secondaries, waiting on OHSU, Minnesota, and Miami (though so far I’ve received confirmation from Minnesota and Miami that they’ve received my AMCAS).

 

[jjame]

I still haven’t gotten anything from Minnesota, and @jjame is correct. I was writing about OHSU for the within two weeks. So far I’ve gotten 32 secondaries, waiting on OHSU, Minnesota, and Miami (though so far I’ve received confirmation from Minnesota and Miami that they’ve received my AMCAS).

I just got Miami today (yesterday? 7/31), so they're starting MSTP secondary send-outs. Also waiting on Oregon.

 

[neurofanatic213]

I just got Miami today (yesterday? 7/31), so they're starting MSTP secondary send-outs. Also waiting on Oregon.

If memory serves from last year, Miami is long! Good luck with it! I work at Miller, so I’m anxiously awaiting that secondary.

 

[jjame]

If memory serves from last year, Miami is long! Good luck with it! I work at Miller, so I’m anxiously awaiting that secondary.

thank you but also omg bb good luck <3 i hope they take you 🙂 show up anyway if they don't xD

ALSO how is the covid situation down there? like highkey are you safe??

 

[neurofanatic213]

thank you but also omg bb good luck <3 i hope they take you 🙂 show up anyway if they don't xD

ALSO how is the covid situation down there? like highkey are you safe??

It’s scary with the amount of people that just don’t care, but UM and Jackson seem to be keeping things pretty well on lock. My in-laws both had COVID, but thankfully very mild cases and are better now. Was very anxious living with the virus less than 20 ft away at all times.

 

[jjame]

It’s scary with the amount of people that just don’t care, but UM and Jackson seem to be keeping things pretty well on lock. My in-laws both had COVID, but thankfully very mild cases and are better now. Was very anxious living with the virus less than 20 ft away at all times.

glad u and the fam are safe tho

 

[neurofanatic213]

Still waiting to receive 3 secondaries, but I just finished the last of what I got so far! Glad to have a breather, but now begins the endless waiting game... here’s to constant worry and overthinking!

 

[bgit]

so i submitted my secondaries almost two weeks ago (7/20 completed) but have only gotten 1 out of 15 secondaries/responses. Should i be worried about something not going thru or should i continue to wait?

 

[jjame]

so i submitted my secondaries almost two weeks ago (7/20 completed) but have only gotten 1 out of 15 secondaries/responses. Should i be worried about something not going thru or should i continue to wait?

Not all schools send complete emails--check the email containing the secondary for further information as well as the info sections of the secondaries themselves. Cross check that with your "application complete" status in the status tab (if that, or something similar, exists).

Check spam/junk too to be safe.

 

[bgit]

Not all schools send complete emails--check the email containing the secondary for further information as well as the info sections of the secondaries themselves. Cross check that with your "application complete" status in the status tab (if that, or something similar, exists).

Check spam/junk too to be safe.

Thats the thing, i havent even gotten invitations to complete secondary applications from 14 out of 15 schools. And i know my primary was sent because one school has sent me a secondary invitation already. Should i be worried or wait a bit longer?

 

[Fencer]

This is a slower cycle for us... be patient. Some schools are still finishing matriculation of the 2020 class. For example, my program with no secondary ($avings) just completed the initial executive review of the first 30 applicants. Invitations to interview will be coming up later this week!

 

[neurofanatic213]

Not gonna lie, Miami has me a bit shook up. I received and submitted the secondary yesterday and my status has already gone to “MD/PhD admissions committee has reviewed your application. No final decision has been reached at this time” and “MD admissions committee is currently reviewing your application.”

 

[micro_glia]

Will schools accept an additional LOR after secondary submission?

 

[dngnc88]

Hi guys! What did people do for the "Experiences" section for Columbia MSTP secondary? I'm planning to put my research experiences (also because those are my only paid jobs during college and it asks for your 'employer') but I'm not sure how long to make the description portion. I have decent-length paragraphs for each one describing the projects but do they want something more brief?

 

[neurofanatic213]

Update on Miller: The link I was sent to confirm the receipt of my secondary brought me to last year’s application page. Also, could not upload a photo to the portal so I had to send it to admissions via email. When I look via the secondary invitation link, my status shows as incomplete. Anyone else experiencing this issue? I’ve tried calling and emailing both MD and MD/PhD admissions with no responses.

 

[Fencer]

It is unusual to have a matriculating class that is 50% larger than prior years. If this happened, most programs would resize their target for the following class and have a 3-year average for matriculation targets. Nationally, the 2020 MD/PhD class is the same size as the 2019 class, so that means that some programs might also need to have a larger class. The AAMC tables for the 2020 cycle will be published until about mid-December, but you can check program websites.

 

[GoldenApples2920]

Just a general question, figured I'd place it here, but I'm wondering how much does MD PhD "ranking" matter. (Ranking seems so nebulous with MD PhD programs anyway). But if you land at any MD PhD program, do you think getting into a top tier residency is possible? Especially if you wanna do internal med or peds, I feel like I see people from "low" MD PhD schools go to the very top. Why do you think this is? And if so, what is the actual benefit of going to a name brand school if the career trajectories out of the programs are comparable? Is it just that the students at any MD PhD program are exceptionally talented? Or do they carry pubs with them from the PhD that just naturally out compete MD only students? Anyway just generic things I'm thinking about as Interview invites start rolling out

 

[Lucca]

Just a general question, figured I'd place it here, but I'm wondering how much does MD PhD "ranking" matter. (Ranking seems so nebulous with MD PhD programs anyway). But if you land at any MD PhD program, do you think getting into a top tier residency is possible? Especially if you wanna do internal med or peds, I feel like I see people from "low" MD PhD schools go to the very top. Why do you think this is? And if so, what is the actual benefit of going to a name brand school if the career trajectories out of the programs are comparable? Is it just that the students at any MD PhD program are exceptionally talented? Or do they carry pubs with them from the PhD that just naturally out compete MD only students? Anyway just generic things I'm thinking about as Interview invites start rolling out

anyone with a PhD applying to an academic or research-oriented residency is going to have very stong footing. There simply arent that many MD/PhDs period. And if you look at MSTP match lists they are almost all as impressive as any isolated "top" MD school's match list. Where you go still matters for networking / opportunities, etc. but anyone accepted to any MSTP (so the top 40 or so MD/PhD programs) and a few MD/PhDs outside of that with long track records of success is probably going to do just fine match-wise. This has been my impression from looking at where ppl match from MD/PhD programs all over. So I think where you go will still matter to an extent but tbh I dont think its as big a deal as it is for MD-only grads who wont always have the same resources to really differentiate themselves as starkly at academic powerhouse institutions. That said, a PhD is not by itself a golden ticket and you need to be a "good" med student as well (read: good clinical grades for yall since Step 1 will be P/F by the time yall take it).

 

[GoldenApples2920]

anyone with a PhD applying to an academic or research-oriented residency is going to have very stong footing. There simply arent that many MD/PhDs period. And if you look at MSTP match lists they are almost all as impressive as any isolated "top" MD school's match list. Where you go still matters for networking / opportunities, etc. but anyone accepted to any MSTP (so the top 40 or so MD/PhD programs) and a few MD/PhDs outside of that with long track records of success is probably going to do just fine match-wise. This has been my impression from looking at where ppl match from MD/PhD programs all over. So I think where you go will still matter to an extent but tbh I dont think its as big a deal as it is for MD-only grads who wont always have the same resources to really differentiate themselves as starkly at academic powerhouse institutions. That said, a PhD is not by itself a golden ticket and you need to be a "good" med student as well (read: good clinical grades for yall since Step 1 will be P/F by the time yall take it).

What would you say is the real difference between an MSTP and another MD PhD program grad in the eyes of a residency program director? Does the fact that the MSTP gets NIH funding make its grads significantly better? Or is it more just based on a historical track record that the MSTP grads may fair better in residency apps? Also, since you brought it up, do you think Step 1 being P/F will make a big difference for MD/PhD grads (without or without regards to school "rank" mattering more)?

 

[Lucca]

What would you say is the real difference between an MSTP and another MD PhD program grad in the eyes of a residency program director? Does the fact that the MSTP gets NIH funding make its grads significantly better? Or is it more just based on a historical track record that the MSTP grads may fair better in residency apps? Also, since you brought it up, do you think Step 1 being P/F will make a big difference for MD/PhD grads (without or without regards to school "rank" mattering more)?

To be fair, im just an MS2 so I dont pretend to be an authority on this but anyone can look at the match lists for themselves and come to virtually the same conclusions. MSTPs tend to have more of a successful track record, which is why they earned the MSTP designation. It also makes it easier to attract better talent. Chickens and eggs. At the same time, there are definitely career advantages to being at a program where they know how to produce physician scientists and have lots of mentorship at various stages of the pipeline as many if not all MSTPs have.

I think Step 1 going P/F has less of an effect on MD/PhD grads for reasons I've stated elsewhere, but I think its important to note other current students have disagreed with me on this. My argument is like this: if an academic program is judging a physician scientist applicant primarily by their Step score and not their research record ESPECIALLY when every other MD applicant has a "P/F" for Step then you dont want anything to do with that program frankly because they clearly have no idea what they are doing.

That said, competitive specialties will continue to be competitive. What will be competitive in 8 years? Who knows. Rad Onc was one of the most competitive specialties ~ 8 years ago, on par with Plastics/Ortho/Derm and now it has a 99.9% match rate for USMDs while ObGyn/EM/ENT/Psych have creeped up in competitiveness steeadily. 8 years ago everyone thought Rads was going to be completely replaced by robots and the job market was tight and it was less competitive. Now its getting more competitive again because word got out Rads docs can make 400-600k, job market actually improved, and interventional rads has grown as a specialty as well. Predicting the future is hard. As a general rule, the harder you are trying to gun, the more *everything* matters for matching high including who you know and where you went to school. Notice I said *high*, in terms of academic powerhouses, of which there are many. In terms of matching at all I dont think MD/PhD grads will have any trouble matching for the most part regardless of where they go but if you want to do Ent/NSG/Derm at a name-brand place or something like that the program you come from will matter more.

I'm at a "top" school and a lot of our MSTP grads match Path, one of the least competitive specialties there is because it's what they want to do (and there are path programs that can ramp you up to 100% research pretty quickly if that's your goal). So don't get too swept up in trying to be the most competitive applicant ever for residency just because its what a subset of med students who happen to be very visible on SDN seem to be doing. As an MD/PhD I do think you will get more leeway to choose what program/specialty you end up at than MD-only grads.

 

[beener]

When asked to explain our research in a faculty interview, how long should our response be? 90 seconds? 5 min? Somewhere in between?

 

[shacoleblanconly]

When asked to explain our research in a faculty interview, how long should our response be? 90 seconds? 5 min? Somewhere in between?

I think context is important. Is it a long (30+ minute) interview with a faculty member whose research background would give them a good understanding of your work? Then maybe 3-5 minutes with a bit more depth. Shorter interview with someone whose scientific background doesn’t align quite as well? More like 90 seconds. Honestly though, I got asked this question many times last cycle and almost every time I answered it I got asked follow-up questions mid-answer that took the discussion in a different direction before I was able to finish my full explanation. So just prepare to be flexible! Just my 2 cents as a recent applicant.

 

[neurofanatic213]

I know it isn’t common to every school, but some have interview wait lists where an applicant is not rejected, but not yet chosen for an interview. This just happened to me for WVU. Can anyone comment to what type of movement might be seen for this interview waitlist?

 

[micro_glia]

Last year my app was put on pre-II hold for an MD/PhD program in Sept but then I received an II at the end of Oct from that same school. So I'd say it's possible, but of course it's largely school and applicant pool dependent

 

[Internationalphysician]

Would you say it is worth to send an update before II about a new manuscript submission?