2020 FM Physicians - what do you earn?

[Medical8]

Hello all.

I'm an MS4 who recently matched FM, and am excited to begin! I am a planner and am looking for a more realistic expectation as to potential future earnings and loan repayment. My debt burden is very close to surpassing $500k 2/2 all the things we hate about costs of medical education (not trying to turn the convo in that direction, please). There are plenty of past threads about this, but it would be awesome to get a more up-to-date picture of things.

Will current FM professionals and PGY3's who have offers give us more recent data on your compensation and the region/market where you work?

I understand we can't blanket a statement/income over anything, and am not looking for that. I can get that with the yearly Medscape physician compensation reports.

I appreciate any input, thank you!

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Hello all.

I'm an MS4 who recently matched FM, and am excited to begin! I am a planner and am looking for a more realistic expectation as to potential future earnings and loan repayment. My debt burden is very close to surpassing $500k 2/2 all the things we hate about costs of medical education (not trying to turn the convo in that direction, please). There are plenty of past threads about this, but it would be awesome to get a more up-to-date picture of things.

Will current FM professionals and PGY3's who have offers give us more recent data on your compensation and the region/market where you work?

I understand we can't blanket a statement/income over anything, and am not looking for that. I can get that with the yearly Medscape physician compensation reports.

I appreciate any input, thank you!

Don't take anything less than 200k without a very good reason.

My group starts right at 200k. It's a bit low but a) we are tied in to the state retirement pension plan b) income potential is pretty high once you're busy. SE area. We have a few offices that count as rural so you can swing significant loan repayment/signing bonuses if you go to those offices.

 

[Lurts]

b) income potential is pretty high once you're busy.

This is the part I’m most curious about. Most new grads are so focused on starting salary, guaranteed base, etc. What kind of numbers are people alluding to when we’re talking about an established doc in a reasonable production model, normal payer mix, average to above average busyness? 250k? 300k? More?

 

[deleted87716]

This is the part I’m most curious about. Most new grads are so focused on starting salary, guaranteed base, etc. What kind of numbers are people alluding to when we’re talking about an established doc in a reasonable production model, normal payer mix, average to above average busyness? 250k? 300k? More?

Starting guarantees are going to vary depending on the market, the practice type, etc. You should expect to start in the $150K-$200K range pretty much anywhere. The length of the guarantee will vary from 1 year to usually no more than 3. After that, you'll typically be on some sort of productivity model (e.g., RVUs) with (usually) a bonus/incentive. Some employers will offer an unrealistically high starting guarantee as a recruiting tool, but it isn't sustainable (or is only sustainable if you work your ass off) after the guarantee runs out.

That being said, >$300K is definitely attainable once you're established and busy.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This is the part I’m most curious about. Most new grads are so focused on starting salary, guaranteed base, etc. What kind of numbers are people alluding to when we’re talking about an established doc in a reasonable production model, normal payer mix, average to above average busyness? 250k? 300k? More?

Established FPs in our group are 275kish including bonuses. Those on the younger end are getting more, the older guys are starting to slow down a bit so they are making less.

 

[SLC]

I’m 2 years out from residency. Pulled in the $250-$300 range last year.

 

[AMEHigh]

Are you talking about salary for jobs that are just straight "traditional" private practice jobs?

Or are you wanting information about the variety of jobs that family med docs do and what they pay?

 

[Medical8]

I’m 2 years out from residency. Pulled in the $250-$300 range last year.

Can you tell us what region and whether rural or not?

 

[SLC]

Can you tell us what region and whether rural or not?

West, rural.

 

[Medical8]

Are you talking about salary for jobs that are just straight "traditional" private practice jobs?

Or are you wanting information about the variety of jobs that family med docs do and what they pay?

Yes I'm personally interested in the other varieties as well

 

[abcdior]

Here is what you can "expect" on the east coast major metro for fresh grad

outpatient bread butter FM: ~ $220k guaranteed +/- incentives bonus that can potentially add up to around 20k additional, + 10-20k sign on bonus. (Kaiser has sign on bonus in the 50k-100k range if you work there for 7 years).
8a - 5p. 7 hours seeing patients and 1 hour charting. M-F.

Urgent care: ~$120/hour.

minority of FM are able to get hospitalist gig. ~250k. typically schedule would be something like. 7a-7p. 7 day on 7 day off, with 20 pt census

other gigs; workers comp, home visits, prison medicine, workers comp. pay ends up being similar ie. low - mid 200's

 

[Doctorsoon2011]

Here is what you can "expect" on the east coast major metro for fresh grad

outpatient bread butter FM: ~ $220k guaranteed +/- incentives bonus that can potentially add up to around 20k additional, + 10-20k sign on bonus. (Kaiser has sign on bonus in the 50k-100k range if you work there for 7 years).
8a - 5p. 7 hours seeing patients and 1 hour charting. M-F.

Urgent care: ~$120/hour.

minority of FM are able to get hospitalist gig. ~250k. typically schedule would be something like. 7a-7p. 7 day on 7 day off, with 20 pt census

other gigs; workers comp, home visits, prison medicine, workers comp. pay ends up being similar ie. low - mid 200's

From Texas PGY2 with signed contract and agree with this based on my job hunting. Rural Texas, you can add ER and nursing home and get too 300-400K with reasonable lifestyle (average 50-65hrs a week).

 

[Sardonix]

I’m 2 years out from residency. Pulled in the $250-$300 range last year.

Ugh, here he comes again, talking about how amazing his life is.

 

[septoplasty]

minority of FM are able to get hospitalist gig. ~250k. typically schedule would be something like. 7a-7p. 7 day on 7 day off, with 20 pt census

I think this is on the lower end, probably.
FM can get hospitalist jobs, mostly depending on the institutions attitude towards them. If we go by the attitude of only wanting IM hospitalist, and FM gets kicked to the rural areas, I've had friends do rural KY gigs for 20k-30/month which translates to 240-360k a year. Granted its a rural hospital, probably requiring ICU work. But inpatient hospital work, hourly is around $165ish/hr.

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

Bible Belt in midsized rural community

250k guaranteed 2 years and $48/rvu over 5500 with 50k sign on and quality bonuses up to 12%.

extra potential for nursing homes, UC, inpatient weekend coverage, and ER as desired but not required.

 

[SLC]

Bible Belt in midsized rural community

250k guaranteed 2 years and $48/rvu over 5500 with 50k sign on and quality bonuses up to 12%.

extra potential for nursing homes, UC, inpatient weekend coverage, and ER as desired but not required.

What’s your RVU hurdle for that salary? Sounds like maybe 430-460/month?

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

What’s your RVU hurdle for that salary? Sounds like maybe 430-460/month?

honestly will have to look back at the contract and see exactly. it’s a graded scale overtime since I will just be starting out. However with 3 physicians retiring from the area already this year (and more expected)I just remember the numbers were very doable after talking with program director and Two local physicians in the area so I wasn’t concerned. After the two years it’s straight rvu production.

 

[drake19]

I worked at an urgent care system with about a dozen sites, almost all shifts I wanted, northeast state

key here was that there were a lot of shifts available. They paid everything in terms of malpractice, etc

120s/ hour, 12 hour shifts
Bonus on holidays and call

I worked 6-7 shifts per week as per diem staff

before taxes about 18-23 k every two weeks before tax
Projected income about 430,000 annually before tax

if full time salary is 200;00 for 3 shifts per weekr, 180 k plus 20k bonus if you sat for entire year

Can consider supplementing your income which is what I do now and full time family practice.


job was quite Cush depending on site, anywhere from 0 (yes zero patients on New Year’s Eve) to 50, typically 15 to 20 per day

Very repetitive

80 percent antibiotics or uri rest basically sports medicine or fracture care.
Money is good and comfortable at times but you work by yourself on an island basically zero interaction with other physicians


Prior to residency had no idea about urgent care but found out about it.

good moonlight opportunity if you can get during residency

 

[FUBAR2020]

Nearly 4 years out of residency. Grossed 530K in 2019. I am a Hospitalist in the Midwest.

 

[Sardonix]

Nearly 4 years out of residency. Grossed 530K in 2019. I am a Hospitalist in the Midwest.

Hey it's me your best friend with a terrific business opportunity...

Kidding aside, that's an amazing number. Could you give some detail as to what kind of setting in the Midwest, how many hours worked etc?

 

[deleted941485]

Nearly 4 years out of residency. Grossed 530K in 2019. I am a Hospitalist in the Midwest.

Do you live at the hospital?

 

[FUBAR2020]

Hey it's me your best friend with a terrific business opportunity...

Kidding aside, that's an amazing number. Could you give some detail as to what kind of setting in the Midwest, how many hours worked etc?

I work as a Nocturnist at a fairly high volume hospital. Admits per night average 14-18 (sometimes 23+). I work 20, 12 hour, shifts per month. Pretty aggressive RVU structure. The earnings came from a combination of base pay per shift, RVU earnings and meeting certain quality metrics. Open ICU, admit for nearly every service, run codes and rapid responses. Not sustainable, but ok for now.

 

[anonperson]

I work as a Nocturnist at a fairly high volume hospital. Admits per night average 14-18 (sometimes 23+). I work 20, 12 hour, shifts per month. Pretty aggressive RVU structure. The earnings came from a combination of base pay per shift, RVU earnings and meeting certain quality metrics. Open ICU, admit for nearly every service, run codes and rapid responses. Not sustainable, but ok for now.

You earn every cent of that $530k with that kind of work load.

 

[Ironheme]

I work as a Nocturnist at a fairly high volume hospital. Admits per night average 14-18 (sometimes 23+). I work 20, 12 hour, shifts per month. Pretty aggressive RVU structure. The earnings came from a combination of base pay per shift, RVU earnings and meeting certain quality metrics. Open ICU, admit for nearly every service, run codes and rapid responses. Not sustainable, but ok for now.

Wow. Suddenly not jealous any more. Good for you to be able to earn that much, working that hard.

 

[deleted87716]

I work as a Nocturnist at a fairly high volume hospital. Admits per night average 14-18 (sometimes 23+). I work 20, 12 hour, shifts per month. Pretty aggressive RVU structure. The earnings came from a combination of base pay per shift, RVU earnings and meeting certain quality metrics. Open ICU, admit for nearly every service, run codes and rapid responses. Not sustainable, but ok for now.

You're underpaid.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

You're underpaid.

530k for 240 12-hr shifts is about ~185 an hour. Yes, those are busy shifts (@ 18 admissions) but overwhelming so imo. Compared to what I’m seeing in a large metropolitan area, the compensation is fair.

 

[Splenda88]

I work as a Nocturnist at a fairly high volume hospital. Admits per night average 14-18 (sometimes 23+). I work 20, 12 hour, shifts per month. Pretty aggressive RVU structure. The earnings came from a combination of base pay per shift, RVU earnings and meeting certain quality metrics. Open ICU, admit for nearly every service, run codes and rapid responses. Not sustainable, but ok for now.

You admit 14-18 patients, run codes and rapid responses by yourself with no NP/PA help!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

530k for 240 12-hr shifts is about ~185 an hour. Yes, those are busy shifts (@ 18 admissions) but overwhelming so imo. Compared to what I’m seeing in a large metropolitan area, the compensation is fair.

15+ admission nocturnist with an open ICU in the midwest? $185 is low for that.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

15+ admission nocturnist with an open ICU in the midwest? $185 is low for that.

Glad to be wrong

 

[InvestingDoc]

Before the rona hit, I was on track to hit make over 500k this year in primary care. Then again I own my own practice, now own my own building where I effectively pay myself rent, and now employ 2 other doctors.

Now I've deferred my salary and trying to keep everyone else as unaffected as possible. My salary will take a huge hit but that's alright.

We will all make it though this.

 

[Splenda88]

It's nice seeing that people doing extremely well in primary care. I was afraid that I was going to have a hard time paying back my loan

As a PGY2, is it too early to apply for permanent license in TX, FL and SC? @VA Hopeful Dr

 

[FUBAR2020]

You admit 14-18 patients, run codes and rapid responses by yourself with no NP/PA help!

There is a resident

 

[Splenda88]

There is a resident

In that case, it's not really a bad gig...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It's nice seeing that people doing extremely well in primary care. I was afraid that I was going to have a hard time paying back my loan

As a PGY2, is it too early to apply for permanent license in TX, FL and SC? @VA Hopeful Dr

That's when I got my SC license. I'm assuming you're a US grad (MD or DO is fine).

Also our board requires an in person meeting so unless you live here that could be hard for you.

 

[Splenda88]

That's when I got my SC license. I'm assuming you're a US grad (MD or DO is fine).

Also our board requires an in person meeting so unless you live here that could be hard for you.

I am a US grad... Won't be able to have an in person meeting. So I guess I will have to start with TX and FL for now.

 

[SXMMD]

I am a US grad... Won't be able to have an in person meeting. So I guess I will have to start with TX and FL for now.

I mean you could always inquire about a Zoom meeting or something. If there was ever a time they would accept it, it's probably now

 

[braineddetermined]

I think that you can also boost your income with a fellowship like sleep medicine.

 

[Streetmath]

Full, busy practice. Four family physicians in total. Our scheme of payment is horrible for fee-for-service. 2019 was roughly $240,000. Add another $20,000 for forms, chart transfers, meetings, etc. Time overhead comes out, left with around $160,000...then comes the tax. Not a pretty sight, lol.

 

[InvestingDoc]

Full, busy practice. Four family physicians in total. Our scheme of payment is horrible for fee-for-service. 2019 was roughly $240,000. Add another $20,000 for forms, chart transfers, meetings, etc. Time overhead comes out, left with around $160,000...then comes the tax. Not a pretty sight, lol.

Does not sound ideal. Is overhead killing the income for yall? That is often the biggest factor for most places.

 

[septoplasty]

15+ admission nocturnist with an open ICU in the midwest? $185 is low for that.

Too much liability for $185 while also working as a house doc at night.. yikes!

 

[septoplasty]

I think that you can also boost your income with a fellowship like sleep medicine.

Not the word on the corner, reimbursements are declining steadily..

 

[deleted941485]

Not the word on the corner, reimbursements are declining steadily..

Sleep labs are dead. Have been for like 15 years

 

[septoplasty]

Sleep labs are dead. Have been for like 15 years

Yep! Home sleep studies are being pushed more and more..

 

[styphon]

East coast, semi-rural area.
Outpatient practice, about 45hr/wk. $235,000

Also work every other weekend, for 2x12hr shifts at suburban hospital, make around $80,000 a yr.

 

[YourMD]

It's nice seeing that people doing extremely well in primary care. I was afraid that I was going to have a hard time paying back my loan

As a PGY2, is it too early to apply for permanent license in TX, FL and SC? @VA Hopeful Dr

As long as you are a us grad and have passed step 3 you're eligible for a license in Florida.

Sent from my SM-N960U using SDN mobile

 

[Njdevils30]

Northeast:
1. Research/Principal Investigator phase one clinical trials 4 days a week yearly pay- 225,000/ year
2. MSK practice one day a week -85,000/ year
3. Chart review from home - 38,000

total 348,000

 

[Sardonix]

East coast, semi-rural area.
Outpatient practice, about 45hr/wk. $235,000

Also work every other weekend, for 2x12hr shifts at suburban hospital, make around $80,000 a yr.

How do you like this part? Do you think it's sustainable?

 

[styphon]

How do you like this part? Do you think it's sustainable?

Previous to this, I had done 1 day every week of urgent care for 6 years. For the hospitalist position I am on my second year. If I was to change things, I may change to 12hr+8hr weekend shift.

 

[Streetmath]

Does not sound ideal. Is overhead killing the income for yall? That is often the biggest factor for most places.

$2,000 every two weeks for overhead.

 

[PunkRockMD]

Northeast:
1. Research/Principal Investigator phase one clinical trials 4 days a week yearly pay- 225,000/ year
2. MSK practice one day a week -85,000/ year
3. Chart review from home - 38,000

total 348,000

MSK as in OMM? How many patients do you usually see a day? Cash pay? How many hours a week do you do chart review?