2020

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Still, I'm reticent to get a vaccine with such limited data on its side effects. Nothing immediate seems to come of it, but most vaccines require 2 years of side effect data before being approved by the FDA. Obviously COVID vaccines are getting exceptions to this.

Well, they did test 35k+ subjects in phase 3. If there were significant side effects they would have to halt the trials...
 
Yea, you're right. They tracked them for illness.

Still, I'm reticent to get a vaccine with such limited data on its side effects. Nothing immediate seems to come of it, but most vaccines require 2 years of side effect data before being approved by the FDA. Obviously COVID vaccines are getting exceptions to this.

I think the chances I don’t get covid from my job in the next two years are pretty small. I try to be careful, but nothing is perfect and honestly I have been getting exhausted from using all the damn ppe with every encounter

I think the chances of long term side effects of having covid (pulmonary, cardiac, etc) are higher than the chances of a vaccine causing long term issues
 
Yeah, if these results actually bear out (and aren't just part of a pump and dump scheme), this is fantastic. I'm of the opinion that any of my coworkers who demand two years of data before taking the vaccine shouldn't be allowed to work.
 
Yea, you're right. They tracked them for illness.

Still, I'm reticent to get a vaccine with such limited data on its side effects. Nothing immediate seems to come of it, but most vaccines require 2 years of side effect data before being approved by the FDA. Obviously COVID vaccines are getting exceptions to this.

Are you more worried about yet unidentified side effects than you are about getting COVID?
 
I think the chances I don’t get covid from my job in the next two years are pretty small. I try to be careful, but nothing is perfect and honestly I have been getting exhausted from using all the damn ppe with every encounter

I think the chances of long term side effects of having covid (pulmonary, cardiac, etc) are higher than the chances of a vaccine causing long term issues

I'm actually pretty surprised that I'm not COVID Ab positive.
 
Are you more worried about yet unidentified side effects than you are about getting COVID?

Definitely concerns me. I'm a high risk individual if I get COVID so I'll probably get the vaccine, but still will be anxious about it. Drug companies have been known to not release full data (hello cox-2 inhibitors).
 
The majority of polio-infected individuals are asymptomatic, while about 4-8% will demonstrate mild symptoms. Less than 1% of polio cases result in permanent limb paralysis. Of the individuals who are paralyzed, 5-10% die as a result of paralysis of the respiratory muscles (Atkinson W, Wolfe S, Hamborsky J, eds. Chapter 17: Poliomyelitis. Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases. 12th ed., second printing. Washington DC: Public Health Foundation: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; 2012. p. 249–62.)

Sounds a lot like COVID. Anyone want to argue that Polio is no big deal, that we should just let it burn, or that we maybe shouldn't get our kids vaccinated?
 
The majority of polio-infected individuals are asymptomatic, while about 4-8% will demonstrate mild symptoms. Less than 1% of polio cases result in permanent limb paralysis. Of the individuals who are paralyzed, 5-10% die as a result of paralysis of the respiratory muscles (Atkinson W, Wolfe S, Hamborsky J, eds. Chapter 17: Poliomyelitis. Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases. 12th ed., second printing. Washington DC: Public Health Foundation: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; 2012. p. 249–62.)

Sounds a lot like COVID. Anyone want to argue that Polio is no big deal, that we should just let it burn, or that we maybe shouldn't get our kids vaccinated?

I've certainly never seen a case of polio. Seems like fake news
 
I don't think it's an equivalent comparison. Polio led to debilitating paralysis. SARS-CoV-2 doesn't have the specific impact. Sure, there are potential long term sequela, particularly pulmonary fibrosis, but many of these folks probably wouldn't have survived during the Spanish flu, which is a better comparison. We have traded fewer deaths per population size for more folks with long term complications. Most distinctively, SARS-CoV predominantly affects obese patients and the elderly. There are outliers, but this disease isn't equally affecting all demographics (with the exception of known health disparities). My knowledge is limited of Polio, but I believe it tended to affect healthier individuals and children at higher proportions comparatively.

I didn't say it was an "equivalent comparison". I do think the similarity in numerical values is interesting and merits mention.

For the record, I agree that dead old people is a less frightening prospect than paralyzed kids.
 
The majority of polio-infected individuals are asymptomatic, while about 4-8% will demonstrate mild symptoms. Less than 1% of polio cases result in permanent limb paralysis. Of the individuals who are paralyzed, 5-10% die as a result of paralysis of the respiratory muscles (Atkinson W, Wolfe S, Hamborsky J, eds. Chapter 17: Poliomyelitis. Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases. 12th ed., second printing. Washington DC: Public Health Foundation: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; 2012. p. 249–62.)

Sounds a lot like COVID. Anyone want to argue that Polio is no big deal, that we should just let it burn, or that we maybe shouldn't get our kids vaccinated?
I was taught in med school that, for most people, their case of polio was one isolated episode of diarrhea. The paralytic cases were 1/300.
 
What makes one person susceptible and others asymptomatic? Probably a difference in percentage of one's diet made up of fruits and veggies.
and genes, probably something about receptor polymorphisms that developed because of genetic drift with no perceptible effects until some new pathogen is on the scene and all of a sudden you've got a significant survival advantage
 
I almost included that, but then thought about how our diet affects our genes. For example, look at obesity which is a lifestyle disease related to diet/exercise that is then inheritable to the next generation.

Don't you think obesity straddles the line between genetic/behavioral at least a bit?

And, not to get too personal, but I'll bet you don't struggle with your weight.
 
I just got COVID. Full Monty - pleuritic chest pain, shaking chills, cyclical fever spikes, drenching sweats, the whole thing.

Luckily I’m pretty young and so far my pulse ox has stayed above 94, so I should be ok.

But damn if it isn’t a very impressive virus.

Thanks a lot 2020.

Looks like we got diagnosed around the same time. Today is the first day (knock on wood) I haven't had a fever since the 14th. Chest still hurts like heck and the cough is annoying. My exertional dyspnea is finally getting better, though. Managed to not get hypoxic, but the GI symptoms suck.

Worst part is isolating in my own house and having no contact with my wife. Since she's in healthcare, she's not been allowed to work since I've been sick.

As terrible as the last 2 weeks have been, I don't wish this on my worst enemy. A couple of dumb-dumb's that I've known for years think this is all a GOveRnMEnt cONspIrAcy, maybe should get a case of it.
 
Looks like we got diagnosed around the same time. Today is the first day (knock on wood) I haven't had a fever since the 14th. Chest still hurts like heck and the cough is annoying. My exertional dyspnea is finally getting better, though. Managed to not get hypoxic, but the GI symptoms suck.

Worst part is isolating in my own house and having no contact with my wife. Since she's in healthcare, she's not been allowed to work since I've been sick.

As terrible as the last 2 weeks have been, I don't wish this on my worst enemy. A couple of dumb-dumb's that I've known for years think this is all a GOveRnMEnt cONspIrAcy, maybe should get a case of it.
Damn I’ve been following you on here for years, so sorry you got it! The chest pain is freaking TERRIFYING. Glad you’re doing a little better now.

My wife got it as well. We tried the self-isolation thing but...Huge PITA. “Luckily” she turned positive pretty quick anyway. How anyone manages not to get it while living with a positive person is beyond me.

Any idea how you got it?
 
Does this Bamlanivimab stuff actually work? We have this available in our hospitals now...Anyone review the data?
 
Any idea how you got it?
Hate to think it, but pretty sure it might have been from one of our travel nurses. They had been working sick for a couple of days and came into the fishbowl to get an Rx for testing with their mask off. We usually don't wear masks ourselves in there. Apparently, they got the PA sitting next to me as well. Found out later they were positive. Had a couple of crashing patients that got tubed, etc. But I was in full PPE with those.
According to our Chief, there's 4 of us out with it right now.
 
So, ivermectin anybody? NJEM study showed it reduced viral load in patients significantly. What happens when you combine this with some bamlanivinumab?
 
So, ivermectin anybody? NJEM study showed it reduced viral load in patients significantly. What happens when you combine this with some bamlanivinumab?

No evidence B-mab does anything except make some people richer and many more poorer. People have been using ivermectin for awhile and if anything meaningful came of it then we'd be using it by now. Even if it does "reduce viral load" does that even translate to any clinical benefit? The real question.
 
So, ivermectin anybody? NJEM study showed it reduced viral load in patients significantly. What happens when you combine this with some bamlanivinumab?
Early intubation? No way. Convalescent plasma? Out. Monoclonal antibodies? Nope. Remdesivir? On its way out. Vitamins and essential oils? You wish. Where do you think ivermectin is going to go if they ever get good data for it?
 
So, ivermectin anybody? NJEM study showed it reduced viral load in patients significantly. What happens when you combine this with some bamlanivinumab?
We’ve been trying for generations of physicians/scientists to come up with a treatment for active viral respiratory infections. Before this it was strains of flu or the host of other respiratory viruses which rip through the nursing homes and preschools every winter.

The result has been virtually no truly successful intervention other than supportive care and vaccination against the disease. Tamiflu, much like BAM, Or remdesivir may help a bit on the edges, but is far from a legitimate effective treatment.

The thought that we could concoct or repurpose a magic bullet to such a persistent problem in medicine over the course of 9 months is fantasy.
 
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