2022 Match Game

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back in the competitive days, it was not uncommon to meet people considering derm or rad onc. It was pretty weird as fields are vastly different but clearly reflected the kind of people who matched back then with high scores wanting high pay in a large metro area with a cush life. The field is now paying for this sin. You are years late buddy. Derm is not in our level anymore. The truth is these people we matched back then don’t want to live in a rural underserved area. Maybe the criteria should change and its sad it took this for the field to realize this.
 
folks - do NOT be alarmed when you see that programs like Baylor (Houston), LIJ, Kaiser all fill. These places are NOT your friends, they LOVE SOAP.

I wouldn't let some of these programs radiate or even match my left nut!
 
Med students are just not as dumb as the #radoncisgreat crowd would like to believe. I remember in med school when med students wanted to do surgery, the general thought was "only go into it if you absolutely can't see yourself doing anything else." I feel the same way about our field. I have a great job in a great city and I get paid a lot of money to do something that I love.

However, med students just need to search "radiation oncologist jobs" or to take one look at the ASTRO job board (if they have access to it now that it's private) and it's pretty clear why the interest is gone. It's a whose who of places I've never heard of and places I'd never want to be. Every few years, the same hell hole in Iowa or Dakota or wherever that I didn't know existed pops up again. Relatively speaking, I have a dream job, but I wouldn't do it over. I worked too long and too hard to wind up rolling the dice and winding up in Minot or Sioux City.

Search for jobs in any big city in any other field in medicine and you'll at least find SOMETHING advertised. That doesn't mean you'll get that job, it may even be a ****ty job, but at least a job exists. For us, it's "oh there are jobs, they're just not posted so it's super duper important to network." Stop pretending the job market doesn't suck. Just acknowledge it and try to fix it.
 
thecarbonionangle said:
The truth is these people we matched back then don’t want to live in a rural underserved area. Maybe the criteria should change and its sad it took this for the field to realize this.
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well said. and I'm guilty of this as I'm sure many of us are who matched in the 'glory days'. we are a particular phenotype. a phenotype which i think is GOOD for rad onc in public facing domains (how many of us have been told wow you're pretty personable for a rad onc!) but we aren't wanting to go to these small towns that do need rad oncs.

it was a catch 22.
 

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Similar story here in a large Midwest city: I think our program may have matched 2 spots, but based on Twitter, neither will have matched a prelim year (a bit like last year)

I’ll find out Friday

Radonc is officially less competitive than a surgical prelim year
 
Baws said:
Similar story here in a large Midwest city: I think our program may have matched 2 spots, but based on Twitter, neither will have matched a prelim year (a bit like last year)

I’ll find out Friday

Radonc is officially less competitive than a surgical prelim year
Click to expand...
Your program is going to have to beg the IM PD to open up two spots to people they might not touch themselves with a ten foot pole. This is the way.
 
Chartreuse Wombat said:
When did RadOnc officially "jump the shark"?

Video below for non-boomers...yeah I know...boomers

Click to expand...


That’s easy, with the Ben Smith paper declaring there was a looming shortage of rad onc docs based off of a bunch of guesses and fancy math.
 
RealSimulD said:
What is incredibly frustrating is that behind closed doors they are literally blaming "SDN", me, sock puppets, COVID, Putin, the Trucker Convoy - everyone - instead of being introspective and trying to fix the problems the field faces.
Click to expand...
You know it. People want the heads of many on this forum, but they need to look in mirror and fix their issues rather than blaming other people for their own s$$$
 
RealSimulD said:
What is incredibly frustrating is that behind closed doors they are literally blaming "SDN", me, sock puppets, COVID, Putin, the Trucker Convoy - everyone - instead of being introspective and trying to fix the problems the field faces.
Click to expand...
Behind closed doors?

Bro I'm pretty sure they hired Dog the Bounty Hunter to find you. I'm excited to see the episode!!

1647359751430.png
 
It's so simple. Just match fewer people. You temporarily created demand by creating supply and now its time to contract. Biggly.

Nearly all med students are smart, but we cull essentially no one once admission occurs. No field or job ever should be matching 99+% of applicants even from US med schools. At least 3% of med studs should probably not be doing clinical medicine for one reason or another.

I don't care about competitiveness by the way. It would be fine if stellar med students rarely went into radonc and mostly average applicants interested in high touch oncology applied....and we took only 100-120 of them. Would be great actually.
 
RealSimulD said:
What is incredibly frustrating is that behind closed doors they are literally blaming "SDN", me, sock puppets, COVID, Putin, the Trucker Convoy - everyone - instead of being introspective and trying to fix the problems the field faces.
Click to expand...

There's only one truth. As a med student, all you can do is hear both sides of the argument and go with whichever side makes a more convincing case. Below are the job postings on the ASTRO site from the last month. If anyone wants to convince me that we have a strong job market then they'd better start working on their sales pitch for the state of Kentucky.

Lexington, KY, United States
Louisville, KY, United States
Jackson, MS, United States
Lakewood, CO, United States
Denver, CO, United States
Sayre, PA, United States
New York, NY, United States [academic, Cornell]
Sioux City, IA, United States
Cleveland, OH, United States
Bardstown, KY, United States
Cooperstown, NY, United States
Dothan, AL, United States
Indianapolis, IN, United States
Richmond, VA, United States
Tucson, AZ, United States
Lexington, KY, United States
Albuquerque, NM, United States
Jackson, TN, United States

I've heard the argument that "there are jobs they're just not posted" and that "you need to network, like you do in any field." These are symptoms of a bad job market folks! The reason that good jobs don't get advertised is because they don't need to. The reason they don't need to is because we have an oversupply of radiation oncologists and an undersupply of good jobs.
 
RSAOaky said:
There's only one truth. As a med student, all you can do is hear both sides of the argument and go with whichever side makes a more convincing case. Below are the job postings on the ASTRO site from the last month. If anyone wants to convince me that we have a strong job market then they'd better start working on their sales pitch for the state of Kentucky.

Lexington, KY, United States
Louisville, KY, United States
Jackson, MS, United States
Lakewood, CO, United States
Denver, CO, United States
Sayre, PA, United States
New York, NY, United States [academic, Cornell]
Sioux City, IA, United States
Cleveland, OH, United States
Bardstown, KY, United States
Cooperstown, NY, United States
Dothan, AL, United States
Indianapolis, IN, United States
Richmond, VA, United States
Tucson, AZ, United States
Lexington, KY, United States
Albuquerque, NM, United States
Jackson, TN, United States

I've heard the argument that "there are jobs they're just not posted" and that "you need to network, like you do in any field." These are symptoms of a bad job market folks! The reason that good jobs don't get advertised is because they don't need to. The reason they don't need to is because we have an oversupply of radiation oncologists and an undersupply of good jobs.
Click to expand...
The 2021-22 time frame has been and will be a brief respite from badness. The rate of complaints and horror stories dipped down a little methinks. The 2023-26 time frame is going to be rougher for new grads and all job searchers. The rate of old rad oncs retiring really shot up the last couple of years. The rad onc job market dodged a potentially lethal bullet in APM; that it's gone will have a positive effect on the job market. An increasing reliance on technology in academic centers, and trying to increase indications by irradiating ever more metastatic disease, will also be positive on the job market. Other than these three things, I don't foresee any other upward helpful pressures on the job market however.
 
RSAOaky said:
There's only one truth. As a med student, all you can do is hear both sides of the argument and go with whichever side makes a more convincing case. Below are the job postings on the ASTRO site from the last month. If anyone wants to convince me that we have a strong job market then they'd better start working on their sales pitch for the state of Kentucky.

Lexington, KY, United States
Louisville, KY, United States
Jackson, MS, United States
Lakewood, CO, United States
Denver, CO, United States
Sayre, PA, United States
New York, NY, United States [academic, Cornell]
Sioux City, IA, United States
Cleveland, OH, United States
Bardstown, KY, United States
Cooperstown, NY, United States
Dothan, AL, United States
Indianapolis, IN, United States
Richmond, VA, United States
Tucson, AZ, United States
Lexington, KY, United States
Albuquerque, NM, United States
Jackson, TN, United States

I've heard the argument that "there are jobs they're just not posted" and that "you need to network, like you do in any field." These are symptoms of a bad job market folks! The reason that good jobs don't get advertised is because they don't need to. The reason they don't need to is because we have an oversupply of radiation oncologists and an undersupply of good jobs.
Click to expand...
“ Kentucky is a BEAUTIFUL state. Our senators are a turtle and a guy who cannot get BC and started his own sham board. As a rad onc here we dont care about BC. The ABR may not even let you be BC anyways so don’t fight it. Jump on that horse. The burbon is good. The hemp is good. Life will be good

Ps. We fought for the union so we have been the good guys for a while. Minorities welcomed!”
 
thecarbonionangle said:
“ Kentucky is a BEAUTIFUL state. Our senators are a turtle and a guy who cannot get BC and started his own sham board. As a rad onc here we dont care about BC. The ABR may not even let you be BC anyways so don’t fight it. Jump on that horse. The burbon is good. The hemp is good. Life will be good

Ps. We fought for the union so we have been the good guys for a while. Minorities welcomed!”
Click to expand...
Turtle. 😂
 
thecarbonionangle said:
“ Kentucky is a BEAUTIFUL state. Our senators are a turtle and a guy who cannot get BC and started his own sham board. As a rad onc here we dont care about BC. The ABR may not even let you be BC anyways so don’t fight it. Jump on that horse. The burbon is good. The hemp is good. Life will be good

Ps. We fought for the union so we have been the good guys for a while. Minorities welcomed!”
Click to expand...
Curious; did he fail the ABO exam? In any case starting your own sham board is baller.
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
“ Kentucky is a BEAUTIFUL state. Our senators are a turtle and a guy who cannot get BC and started his own sham board. As a rad onc here we dont care about BC. The ABR may not even let you be BC anyways so don’t fight it. Jump on that horse. The burbon is good. The hemp is good. Life will be good

Ps. We fought for the union so we have been the good guys for a while. Minorities welcomed!”
Click to expand...

Found this about Rand Paul. He let his BC in ophthalmology lapse in 2005. He started his own board in part as an effort "to have all ophthalmologists re-certify, regardless of age (sounds familiar).” He still has a license to practice in Kentucky and does free surgeries at home on those without insurance and abroad.

 
fiji128 said:
Found this about Rand Paul. He let his BC in ophthalmology lapse in 2005. He started his own board in part as an effort "to have all ophthalmologists re-certify, regardless of age (sounds familiar).” He still has a license to practice in Kentucky and does free surgeries at home on those without insurance and abroad.

Click to expand...
I hate the guy’s ever shifting politics and spineless way that he behaved after the 2016 election, but i have always had respect for what he tried to attempt with the alternate board certification. He was ahead of his time. I bet if he did it now, would have critical mass, as everyone now understands what trash most of the boards are.
 
CurbYourExpectations said:
According to the Reddit spreadsheet:

U of Alabama- 1
Mayo Az- 1
Arkansas-1
Kaiser LA-2
UC Irvine-1
Georgetown-1
Henry Ford-2
U Minn-1
Dartmouth-1
Rutgers-1
SUNY brooklyn-2
SUNY upstate-1
Stony Brook-1
U Rochestor-2
Northwell LIJ-1
Allegheny-1
Thomas Jefferson-1
MUSC-2
Baylor-2
UTSanAntonio-2
UTexas Galveston-1
West Virginia-1
Click to expand...
In an attempt to try to be helpful to those souls set on soaping into our field, i would focus on

Mayo arizona
UAB
Rochester (only heard good things, hurt by location just like Buffalo)
Kaiser (they get cali jobs)
Henry ford (chair has good reputation)
Dartmouth (as much as i hate it is new, CT is a known good guy)
Rutgers (big maybe)

Ones below Rutgers are total garbage (excluding rochester).


In other news i received a PM regarding a very well known hellpit essentially confirming spots will be soaped which is what we already knew. Most if not all of above will fill
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
In an attempt to try to be helpful to those souls set on soaping into our field, i would focus on

Mayo arizona
UAB
Rochester (only heard good things, hurt by location just like Buffalo)
Kaiser (they get cali jobs)
Henry ford (chair has good reputation)
Dartmouth (as much as i hate it is new, CT is a known good guy)
Rutgers (big maybe)

Ones below Rutgers are total garbage (excluding rochester).


In other news i received a PM regarding a very well known hellpit essentially confirming spots will be soaped which is what we already knew. Most if not all of above will fill
Click to expand...

agree!
 
thecarbonionangle said:
In an attempt to try to be helpful to those souls set on soaping into our field, i would focus on

Mayo arizona
UAB
Rochester (only heard good things, hurt by location just like Buffalo)
Kaiser (they get cali jobs)
Henry ford (chair has good reputation)
Dartmouth (as much as i hate it is new, CT is a known good guy)
Rutgers (big maybe)

Ones below Rutgers are total garbage (excluding rochester).


In other news i received a PM regarding a very well known hellpit essentially confirming spots will be soaped which is what we already knew. Most if not all of above will fill
Click to expand...
At this point any of those programs outside of perhaps UAB are going to be trash for finding a job in 2026+. Let's be honest to any US medical student looking to soap.
 
medgator said:
At this point any of those programs outside of perhaps UAB are going to be trash for finding a job in 2026+. Let's be honest to any US medical student looking to soap.
Click to expand...
There are very few jobs in California and Kaiser grad would still have to compete with Stanford, ucsf ucsd etc. no way most the Kaiser residents get a job in ca.
 
There is actually enough program specific data that’s been published on here over the past several years that with an hour or two worth of effort a list can be made of the programs that have been filling unmatched spots in and outside of the SOAP.
 
RickyScott said:
There are very few jobs in California and Kaiser grad would still have to compete with Stanford, ucsf ucsd etc. no way most the Kaiser residents get a job in ca.
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Simply not true. I’ve interviewed with SoCal Kaiser. They have an extremely strong preference for their own. Look at the people there and where they trained. They work in a unique way and it’s not for everyone. They know the KP residents “get it” so that’s who they tend to hire.
 
RealSimulD said:
Simply not true. I’ve interviewed with SoCal Kaiser. They have an extremely strong preference for their own. Look at the people there and where they trained. They work in a unique way and it’s not for everyone. They know the KP residents “get it” so that’s who they tend to hire.
Click to expand...
I wonder if the converse is also true...
Kaiser grads less likely to get drafted to one of the other cali academic places or PP....
 
RealSimulD said:
Simply not true. I’ve interviewed with SoCal Kaiser. They have an extremely strong preference for their own. Look at the people there and where they trained. They work in a unique way and it’s not for everyone. They know the KP residents “get it” so that’s who they tend to hire.
Click to expand...
I am sure they hire their own, but will they always have openings?
 
what is the Kaiser way? idk much about it/them
 
RickyScott said:
SDN is the highlight of my career - hopefully helped medstudents from making a disastrous choice. Someday "RickyScott" will be on my resume list of aliases the attorneys have included in the legal brief when the DOJ names me in an antitrust lawsuit.
Click to expand...
Fixed it.
 
According to google doc, iowa is expanding. Can anyone confirm? That would be ridiculous!
 
FLASH Foward said:
Just wanted to drop in and say UAB was a strong program this year, I ranked it pretty highly. Very suprised they are soaping but felt I could be happy and get great training there.
Click to expand...

I think most of us agree that UAB is a strong program, it just has the unfortunate reality of being a strong program in a bad location. We're at the point where good programs in bad locations and even some bad programs in good location are going to struggle to match consistently if they have any desire to match respectable candidates.
 
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