22 Withdrawals - should I repeat undergrad, altogether?

Mar 19, 2010
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I have my prereqs done with a major in COM from a Tier 4 school. Science GPA a 3.1, overall at 3.45 want to be a dentist. The problem is, I have 22 withdrawals and it took me 10 years to finish my undergrad degree. Extreme family circumstances contributed to maybe 4-8 of the Ws, to be honest. The rest were dumps of Cs or B- grades that I didn't want in my GPA.

I am considering repeating undergrad, altogether, at a tier 1 state university to hide the Ws. Is this my best option? Are the 22 Ws prohibitive, even if I did well (19+) on the DAT? I am assuming so, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
 

AllIn4Dental

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Yea to be honest I think you have too.. Dental schools want to see that you can handle the intense courseload. Youve got to show them that you can
 
Dec 1, 2009
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22 withdraws? thats quite a number. i don't think you should ever withdraw from a class with B- or a C. Dental schools know that you're a human being and they don't always expect you to have straight As. Cs are not good but a couple won't kill you.

I honestly think you should redo your undergrad, and too many withdrawals are a red flag for dental school, except its a big family emergency stuff.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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I think redoing undergrad is not the right choice...I would say move on to a non-thesis master's program and rock it. It just doesn't make sense time-wise to redo 4 years of school.

If you can show 2 years of solid grades with no withdrawals, I'm sure you can write off your withdrawals as a consequence of your youth.

I personally would go the master's route.

Damn, 22 withdrawals though...wow! I got heat for the 3 or 4 that I had-haha--I also had F's and Ds though...but on a positive note, I got into dental school!

Best of luck!
 

DividedByZero

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Even if you do redo your undergrad, you still can't hide the W's. You have to report ALL your post-secondary education on your AADSAS. If you're really worried about it, I would advise the masters route as well. Although, I do think with a good interview and a solid PS you have a shot at just applying next cycle straight up.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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A buddy of mine did a Master of Anatomy at CWRU and killed it. He had a 32 MCAT and was at the top of his class for the anatomy program; even worked as a TA. He is getting **** for 4 Ws from a car accident. Granted, he is applying to med and not dental, but still...

I would love to think I could just to a post-bac, but I think I need to make the Ws go away. 22 is too much to explain away when adcoms are dying to get through thousands of apps, I would imagine.

Anyone else think post-bac is a viable route? I would love to shave a couple of years off this road..

Thanks!
 

Vicviper

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22 W's is a lot, but it won't prevent you from getting into dental school as long as you can give them maybe at least a year of solid grades - I'd suggest trying to get into a Post-bac or a masters. I had 6, but it never really came up at my interviews. And yes, you can't hide any of your grades, no matter what.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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Even if you do redo your undergrad, you still can't hide the W's. You have to report ALL your post-secondary education on your AADSAS. If you're really worried about it, I would advise the masters route as well. Although, I do think with a good interview and a solid PS you have a shot at just applying next cycle straight up.
Why can't I just omit the information from my previous university? How would AADSAS find out?

Thank you~
 
Mar 19, 2010
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22 W's is a lot, but it won't prevent you from getting into dental school as long as you can give them maybe at least a year of solid grades - I'd suggest trying to get into a Post-bac or a masters. I had 6, but it never really came up at my interviews. And yes, you can't hide any of your grades, no matter what.
How will they know?
 

Vicviper

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A buddy of mine did a Master of Anatomy at CWRU and killed it. He had a 32 MCAT and was at the top of his class for the anatomy program; even worked as a TA. He is getting **** for 4 Ws from a car accident. Granted, he is applying to med and not dental, but still...

I would love to think I could just to a post-bac, but I think I need to make the Ws go away. 22 is too much to explain away when adcoms are dying to get through thousands of apps, I would imagine.

Anyone else think post-bac is a viable route? I would love to shave a couple of years off this road..

Thanks!
Like I said, there is no way to hide grades - and thinking about keeping transcripts from AADSAS is a bad idea. If most of these W's were more than a few years ago, I think a post-bac and a 20+ DAT score would make you a pretty good applicant.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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My fiance is in pharmacy school after a stint in med and also in accounting. She did both for about a semester. She reported the med semester but not accounting and PHARMCAS never knew any better.

Those were, obviously, both grad programs, so maybe that made it easier to hide. Nonetheless, she got away with it, so I assumed I might be better off trying to hide my Ws.

If I'm gonna get busted, I suppose the point is moot. What a bummer that would be; to get through undergrad a second time and be exposed for hiding my Ws.. haha
 
Mar 19, 2010
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Even employers are not necessarily privy to info from every college and university attended. I thought that was secure information, disclosed at will.
 

SuperTank

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Even employers are not necessarily privy to info from every college and university attended. I thought that was secure information, disclosed at will.
This is from the AADSAS website:

"Report ALL coursework completed at U.S., U.S. overseas, and Canadian institutions exactly as it appears on your transcript(s).

Include information and corresponding grades for every course you have ever taken at any U.S., U.S. overseas or Canadian institution, regardless of whether credit was earned. All courses that appear on your transcripts and for which a grade and/or credit were ever assigned will be included in the AADSAS GPA calculations, even if they are not included in the GPA calculations of the transcript-issuing school.



AADSAS verifies your self-reported courses against your official transcripts and will report any discrepancies to your selected dental institutions. AADSAS does not enter courses for you. AADSAS will contact you and return your application for corrections or explanations if it identifies a significant number of course discrepancies or omissions. Failure to properly enter all course information and to make corrections as requested may result in processing delays and you may jeopardize your chances for admission."

I suppose you could try to redo college and submit only those grades to dental schools. But how unethical could you be?
 

SeattleRDH

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Be honest! If you lie about your grades what's to keep you from lying on treatment plans? It's a slippery slope. Maybe your fiance's interviewers knew about her grades but didn't say anything because it wasn't a deciding factor?

Worst case scenario: you try to hide your grades but you don't know the interviewers know about your academic history... they ask "have you ever gone through any personal hardships that interferred with your education?"... you lie and say "no".... you blew your shot at getting into dental school.
 

goosestuff

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Are you kidding me?! Don't waste your time - do you really want to repeat English 101, spanish 101, bio 101, etc? That's alot of courses, alot of time. Do excellent in a Masters/post-bacc program, do well on the DATs, and write a good personal statement that can explain how mature you are now.

There are many, many students in DS who did questionable things in UG and then did a Masters.

GL!:luck:
 

Vicviper

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Also, having a story to tell in your personal statement about your improvement can really help you stand out. Dental schools love to see improvement like that, it shows dedication.
 

AmpedUp

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Even employers are not necessarily privy to info from every college and university attended. I thought that was secure information, disclosed at will.
You make a good point, but it's all about academic fairness and leveling the playing field. Unfortunately, I will have to turn in a few disappointing grades and W's from my past. AADSAS has rules and I wouldn't play games with them, because that could SEVERELY hurt your chances in the future.

People made some good suggestions though. I think you would be able to redeem yourself by doing a masters program. The M.S. Oral Biology seems to be a popular one. Kill that without any interruptions and I'm sure schools will overlook the 22 W's on your record. Just make sure you apply broadly. I'm pretty sure there's a school out there that will take a chance on you. Just work hard and maintain a positive attitude :thumbup:.
 

adizzle87

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Don't be surprised if you get caught. ADCOMs are going to be wondering where you did your initial undergrad work. Even if you redid undergrad, based on your age and work experience they will eventually figure out that you are lying about your academic history.

Be honest, do a 2-year post-bac, and that should hopefully make a good case for you. I would definitely call schools and ask their admissions advisers what their recommended route would be. You really have to step it up a notch, 22 W's is excessive and I don't think a one-year post-bac will be enough to negate 10 years of bad grades. IMO its best to do two years of new undergraduate work to give ADCOMs the assurance that you will do well in dental school.
 
Oct 5, 2009
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When you apply to your Tier 1 school, they would ask you to supply all records/transcripts. So I guess you are going to lie to them too and pretend you didn't just finish 10 years of school? Because they would include all your prior classes on their transcripts. All my community college courses show up on my university transcript.

And you are like- 28? What are you going to say you have been doing with your life since you finished high school?

Good luck on the DAT. I wonder how many times you are going to take it until you make all 30's.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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When you apply to your Tier 1 school, they would ask you to supply all records/transcripts. So I guess you are going to lie to them too and pretend you didn't just finish 10 years of school? Because they would include all your prior classes on their transcripts. All my community college courses show up on my university transcript.

And you are like- 28? What are you going to say you have been doing with your life since you finished high school?

Good luck on the DAT. I wonder how many times you are going to take it until you make all 30's.
Yes, I would transfer from a community college to the tier 1 state university, via a guaranteed acceptance transfer program, negating any information about ever attending college before. I would say that I had been working since 1998 and now wish to pursue academic and career goals that otherwise were not an option for me, earlier in life. If the 22 Ws are prohibitive to my entry, I would rather lie about it than do a post-bac and have to explain it away.

IF i don't get busted by AADSAS or whatever adcom, wouldn't I be better off explaining that I worked after HS than that I dicked around and withdrew from 22 classes because my grades were sub par in them? I feel like, if I can get away with it, maybe repeating is my only option for entry.

Has anyone EVER gotten away with omitting ANY classes from AADSAS or adcoms?
 
Mar 19, 2010
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If I can get past the adcom at the undergrad level, and get past AADSAS, I would think I would be in the clear..

22 Ws is a lot to explain away, IF I get an interview ANYWHERE~~

These dental adcoms would love nothing more than to trash my app. and take the money that I sent along with it.

I don't really care about being dishonest at this point. Will I get busted if I lie about undergrad? Does AADSAS use studentclearinghouse.com?
 

ashlander

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If I can get past the adcom at the undergrad level, and get past AADSAS, I would think I would be in the clear..

22 Ws is a lot to explain away, IF I get an interview ANYWHERE~~

These dental adcoms would love nothing more than to trash my app. and take the money that I sent along with it.

I don't really care about being dishonest at this point. Will I get busted if I lie about undergrad? Does AADSAS use studentclearinghouse.com?
don't risk it.
if you get busted later while in dschool, you will get kicked out.
so yeah, report all to aadsas and just explain it if you get interview.
however, you are i a very very bad spot now. you need to kill everything from now to have a shot imo.
 

Vicviper

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I've heard a number of stories about people applying to transfer to the UC system in California who leave significant portions of bad grades off of their applications, and they get banned for life from the UC system. If an Undergrad institution would take the time to look at applicants, don't you think a professional school would even more? Right now you're thinking solely about the risk of getting found out and not getting into dental school, but what happens when you get in, and in your 3rd year you get found out, dismissed, and now have 320k in loans to start paying back in 6 months - you really don't want the specter of that hanging over you.

Like I said before, if you can put forward a year of post-bac, show significant improvement, and do well on the DAT, I don't see your past as being a big issue. Dental School Adcom's love to see improvement. And how long ago were these W's anyways? If it was more than a few years ago, it would matter even less.
 

AmpedUp

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You're treading in bad waters. You're going to get caught buddy. I wouldn't shun the advice people have given you here, otherwise you're lying to yourself.
 
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SuperTank

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Yes, I would transfer from a community college to the tier 1 state university, via a guaranteed acceptance transfer program, negating any information about ever attending college before. I would say that I had been working since 1998 and now wish to pursue academic and career goals that otherwise were not an option for me, earlier in life. If the 22 Ws are prohibitive to my entry, I would rather lie about it than do a post-bac and have to explain it away.

IF i don't get busted by AADSAS or whatever adcom, wouldn't I be better off explaining that I worked after HS than that I dicked around and withdrew from 22 classes because my grades were sub par in them? I feel like, if I can get away with it, maybe repeating is my only option for entry.

Has anyone EVER gotten away with omitting ANY classes from AADSAS or adcoms?
Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie.

So now not only are you going to lie and hide your poor grades from admission committees, but you're going to make up an entire phony job history over the last TEN years on top of that?

What I WOULD suggest is that you do a post-bac program for a couple years to explain away your wasted undergrad. I WOULD suggest that you write a personal statement talking about how you're past experiences have helped you to build strong character in the face of adversity, but I won't suggest that as it's absolutely clear that you have no character.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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Will the 22 Ws keep me out of a post bac? 3.45 COM major with 3.1 Science.. No DAT

anyone have a link to the post bacs I would apply to? I would like to do one that has DAT prep built in and matriculation or some ties to dschool. If I need a DAT and a rejection, that's fine too.

Thank you and I'm touched by your ethical standards. Personally, I just want to get in- I hope you all are actually ethical people and not just worried that some idiot that effed up in undergrad is gonna take your spot in dschool-
 

coralteeth

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Will the 22 Ws keep me out of a post bac? 3.45 COM major with 3.1 Science.. No DAT

anyone have a link to the post bacs I would apply to? I would like to do one that has DAT prep built in and matriculation or some ties to dschool. If I need a DAT and a rejection, that's fine too.

Thank you and I'm touched by your ethical standards. Personally, I just want to get in- I hope you all are actually ethical people and not just worried that some idiot that effed up in undergrad is gonna take your spot in dschool-
i don't think anyone is worried that you'll take his or her spot in dental school.
 

AmpedUp

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LOL especially when this dude has 4 years left...I wasn't worried anyway. There's crooks in every system. but good luck trying to cheat. However, it'll be MUCH faster if you finish a masters program and do things honestly and responsibly. Just sayin' dude..
 

dl9006

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22 withdrawals is ridiculous... that's 2 full academic years of withdrawing...

maybe you should have thought about how many W's you were racking up before continuing that path.

withdrawing to avoid low grades is kind of cheap.

and i doubt trying to omit your undergrad degree will work
 

Zubnaya Feya

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I have my prereqs done with a major in COM from a Tier 4 school. Science GPA a 3.1, overall at 3.45 want to be a dentist. The problem is, I have 22 withdrawals and it took me 10 years to finish my undergrad degree. Extreme family circumstances contributed to maybe 4-8 of the Ws, to be honest. The rest were dumps of Cs or B- grades that I didn't want in my GPA.

I am considering repeating undergrad, altogether, at a tier 1 state university to hide the Ws. Is this my best option? Are the 22 Ws prohibitive, even if I did well (19+) on the DAT? I am assuming so, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Based on your academic history and posts in this thread, you will most likely not get into any dental school no matter what you do at this point. Think of some other career to pursue. You need to be realistic.
 

Vicviper

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Based on your academic history and posts in this thread, you will most likely not get into any dental school no matter what you do at this point. Think of some other career to pursue. You need to be realistic.
If he does a 2 year masters, gets above a 3.5, and a 20+ on the DAT, I think he'd still stand a fair chance if he's honest about everything, writes a great PS about the experience, and gets great LOR's supporting him. Sure, it'll be hard, but if it's something you know you want to do, it's doable - though work on those ethical standards a bit. The past is the past.
 

Zubnaya Feya

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If he does a 2 year masters, gets above a 3.5, and a 20+ on the DAT, I think he'd still stand a fair chance if he's honest about everything, writes a great PS about the experience, and gets great LOR's supporting him. Sure, it'll be hard, but if it's something you know you want to do, it's doable - though work on those ethical standards a bit. The past is the past.
10 years to finish undergrad... 22(!) Ws for no matter what reasons. STILL questionable attitude towards academics. Although we don't know the person much, I am speaking from what I see in this thread and what I see is not good. :)
 

doc toothache

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Another aspiring pre dent who apparently has never encountered the word ethics.
 

wreMtH

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I cannot even fathom setting my sights on professional school after wrestling with undergrad for 10 years. Dental school curriculums are more intense than undergrad, and you can't just bail on a patient half way through the surgery if things aren't going as well as you had planned. I'm sorry, but I agree with the above posters that suggest searching elsewhere for a fulfilling career.
 

txlonghorn

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If you don't mind moving to Texas, then you can have all your coursework from the past 10 years cleared. It is called an academic fresh start, but this will only apply for Texas school. If you are serious about getting in, then this may be an option.
 

Leeuwenhoek

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You might have to repeat the pre-reqs if your courses are over 10 years old as many schools won't consider grades after a certain period. Whether you want to redo your undergraduate or just retake the courses is up to you. Also, you must list ALL courses. If you neglect to include certain course grades or a school altogether and should you be accepted to a dental school, your offer of admission or current student status may be withdrawn.
 
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my advice is to sit down with an admissions counselor..ask them what it would take to be competitive. be honest. get the facts and then decide what you can do. there are plenty of paths to dental school that won't involve lying about your record...but you need facts, not opinions
 

doc toothache

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If you don't mind moving to Texas, then you can have all your coursework from the past 10 years cleared. It is called an academic fresh start, but this will only apply for Texas school. If you are serious about getting in, then this may be an option.
Academic Fresh Start programs are not limited to Texas.
 
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I got an email from studentclearinghouse... "Thanks for your email. You have the option of placing a directory block on your information. This request will have to be placed at your school. You will need to ask that a FERPA block be placed on your records with the National Student Clearinghouse. This block will ensure that your history of enrollment cannot be released without your consent. Accurate attendance records cannot be removed from our system though."

Now, from the ferpa site "Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):

School officials with legitimate educational interest;
Other schools to which a student is transferring;
Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes;
Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;
Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school;
Accrediting organizations;
To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena;
Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and
State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law."


Is placing a FERPA block on my past undergrad a realistic option? I am dedicated to getting in- I can't change the past, but it will be difficult to get into a post-bacc or dschool with 22 dubs, I'm sure..
 
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Academic Fresh Start programs are not limited to Texas.
Does this erase 10 or more years of grades, or do I need to be removed from academics for 10 or more years to have grades erased? Also, from what I understand, Texas has a statute in place whereas other institutions are doing this on a voluntary basis.

This may be my best shot. I think it's a great idea, but am a little confused on the specifics
 

dentalWorks

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I have my prereqs done with a major in COM from a Tier 4 school. Science GPA a 3.1, overall at 3.45 want to be a dentist. The problem is, I have 22 withdrawals and it took me 10 years to finish my undergrad degree. Extreme family circumstances contributed to maybe 4-8 of the Ws, to be honest. The rest were dumps of Cs or B- grades that I didn't want in my GPA.

I am considering repeating undergrad, altogether, at a tier 1 state university to hide the Ws. Is this my best option? Are the 22 Ws prohibitive, even if I did well (19+) on the DAT? I am assuming so, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
you can't hide W's. wellllll... I think if you live in texas they have this system that basically deletes ALL your old grades and lets you start freash. But I am not very sure about this, I read about it very years ago when I was pre-med.

But in general, any course work you've done in your lifetime in college MUST be reported in your application cycle, if you don't they'll find out anyways and flag your application. Once your flagged, you'll never get into any USA dental school ever again

As far as 22 Ws go... man thats a weird situation, have you tried talking to some dental schools and seeing what they say? I think, and this is just my opinion, but a 23+AA on the DAT is a must for your situation.
 

StirrinIt

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There is no way that you are going to get away without telling them. There will be record somewhere out there, probably on your "new" transcript that you have to send in, and the AADSAS workers look at every detail on your transcript and compare note to note. Don't be an idiot, buddy. This attitude is what got you in your trouble in the first place (dropping b-'s and c's to omit them from your transcript). Man up to your mistakes, grow from them and move on.
 
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txlonghorn

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