2nd visits, Travel bans, Coronavirus, and ERAS and Clerkships

[Fencer]

I heard today that a visitor coming from NYC for our retreat is no longer able to come physically due to a travel ban at their institution. Our institutions in Texas is considering similar bans for travel (international and/or within US). Perhaps, this is going to change the ability to do in-person 2nd visits.... Please comment on 2nd visits in this thread

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[narla_hotep]

My school's second look is still on, and we're in Texas... Tho we did just cancel a lecture by a professor coming from Seattle, which is probably for the best. Also, just now noticed @Fencer is a fellow Texan...

 

[Fencer]

UT system released a memo on March 2 that included international & domestic travel guidance now, during Spring Break, etc. ... In the next 2-4 weeks, we will find out the extent of the coronavirus epidemic, which might lead or not to internal travel bans. If this happens, we will use technology for virtual 2nd visits.

 

[hrqtalwq]

None of mine have cancelled so far, though they are far from affected areas (midwest). I am close to an affected area, but my current school's travel ban is for international (to high risk countries) not domesic travel.

 

[turtle114]

The only second look that I was planning on attending is UW...just my luck ! Haven't heard anything from them yet though.

 

[babykarat]

I heard that Mt. Sinai revisit is cancelled, and NYU cancelled the MD revisit at least. No word on MSTP yet

Columbia also emailed us saying we should hold off on making travel plans until further notice

 

[babykarat]

Columbia just cancelled. I assume nyu will too given they coincide

Holding out hope penn will not cancel yet since it's not till april 23...

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Welp, that’s all 3 of my revisits canceled in the last 48h. I totally understand the need to cancel them, but still disappointed that I won’t be able to visit any of them again before making a decision. The silver lining, I suppose, is that two of them overlapped and now it might be easier to coordinate remote faculty meetings at both programs. Hoping others have better luck with their revisit opportunities!

 

[Seihai]

None of my acceptances have cancelled on me (though the revisits are really soon, so it might be too late to do it now). I'm pretty sure my upcoming revisits in April will be cancelled, with this trend. It'll suck a bit, but at least I can still try to find ways to get some info.

 

[cellsignaling]

If anyone has reached out to the schools they are considering revisits for and are willing to share any updates, that would be great!

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

One of my MSTP interviews was canceled. We have the option of doing it through the internet.

 

[mdphd_applicant]

I'm scheduled still for all my revisits. But I'm like 90% sure they'll be cancelled in the coming week. States my schools are in are already declaring states of emergency.

 

[babykarat]

Aaaaaand there goes NYU

 

[duckegg]

WashU's will now be live-streamed

 

[Fencer]

I have been in contact with at least couple dozen MD/PhD directors and administrators. Many of our institutions are requiring us to cancel institutional travel within next two months. I will miss APSA/AAP/ASCI in Chicago and the PSTP meeting in Tampa. I am also missing a conference in DC. We are being asked to log any personal trip outside of the state, and most importantly, cancel in-person events that involve bringing out-of the city visitors. We are going to try to do virtual 2nd visits.

 

[medjustice]

Is there a possibility that the timeline for decisions will be delayed?

 

[mmmchikin]

Both of my Second Visits have yet to be cancelled, but I am nearly positive that they will be in the upcoming weeks given the trend. I was really counting on my revisits to make a decision between two programs that I am excited about... I anticipate the decision being much more difficult now.

 

[kisai12]

Case western’s is cancelled

 

[Fencer]

Sorry guys, but I am hearing in the email listserv that the majority of 2nd visits are being cancelled. Coronavirus has branded your MD/PhD class as the Coronavirus matriculating class or generation...

 

[turtle114]

Anyone else in the same boat as me -- heavily leaning towards one school but was hoping to use revisit to confirm my choice? I don't mean to leave the other schools hanging but I'm just nervous to make a decision! Eight years is a long time...

 

[mdphd_applicant]

Anyone else in the same boat as me -- heavily leaning towards one school but was hoping to use revisit to confirm my choice? I don't mean to leave the other schools hanging but I'm just nervous to make a decision! Eight years is a long time...

Totally in your boat. Revisit was supposed to calm a lot of my nerves since I'll be moving cities regardless of my choice - but now I'm actually super unsure.

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Can you visit informally - meet the PD, some students, tour the city/housing - just not in the context of a formal revisit?

I know my daughter is applying for colleges and even though most are shut down, once we know where she is accepted, we are going to visit and check things out as much as possible. Not ideal - she wanted an overnight and to check out classes, but its the best I can do for her.

I was thinking of doing this and making a trip of it since all of my schools are in the same city. Would it be reasonable to reach out to a few PIs about meeting as well?

 

[Fencer]

We are trying our best to provide our accepted students with a Virtual 2nd visit with group events and breakouts for one-to-one. It is not the same, but we are making the effort.

 

[kisai12]

And there goes Northwestern!

 

[mdphd_to_be]

I can't afford to fly out to visit schools on my own dime, especially after draining my bank account for interviews. I was looking forward to using MSTP revisits to be able to make some really big decisions, and now I am stuck. The biggest issue for me is location right now, and it's really hard to assess that from afar.

 

[mmmchikin]

Annnnd my visits both axed. It'll be good to meet with program directors and potential PIs over Skype or Zoom. One thing I was excited about was meeting future members of my cohort as well as other members of the program -- scoping out roommates and stuff like that, too. How do we remedy this with virtual meetings?

 

[babykarat]

I wonder if applicants will hold onto acceptances longer since we dont have revisits to narrow our searches. I imagine there be less waitlist movement? I wonder if the april 30 commit date will be delayed?

 

[turtle114]

Yes, one of my schools sent the list of accepted students with the original 2nd look invite. Wish others would follow suit if possible.

I would say the opposite in that people might commit sooner rather than later. With no true 2nd look to change things, what else would affect choices other than communicating with PIs, etc? Seems unlikely that the virtual 2nd looks will provide much more information than was already shared during the interviews.

 

[narla_hotep]

Well RIP, there goes UTSW's second look. Figured it was a matter of time tbh, since Dallas now has community spread of the disease.

 

[mdphd_to_be]

Do any of the PDs on here have thoughts about whether it is likely that all or part of M1 is online due to covid-19. Also, are mandatory summer rotations likely to now become canceled/optional?

 

[narla_hotep]

Okay saying this with a large grain of salt since I'm not a PD, but... we really have no way of knowing so far in advance how this is gonna evolve over time, is it seasonal, when exactly the vaccine comes out, etc. Current M1's have moved to online classes in a lot of places but who knows about next year

 

[Fencer]

Just adding this weblink:

Shortened MCAT® exams, extended AMCAS® deadlines: How the pandemic has upended medical school admissions

Medical school applicants are struggling with many unknowns, like when they can take the MCAT® exam. Here's how schools are making admissions safe and fair.

www.aamc.org

 

[Fencer]

The Coalition for Physician Accountability's Work Group on Medical Students in the Class of 2021 Moving Across Institutions for Post-Graduate Training made recommendations on major issues facing applications and training programs as they prepare for the 2021 residency application cycle. In wake of coronavirus (COVID-19), the Coalition recommends a delayed opening of ERAS for residency programs and a delayed release of the MSPE with a shared date for both.

After much consideration of everyone involved and in collaboration with AAMC affinity groups, specialty organizations, and the ERAS Advisory Committee; ERAS has determined that on Wednesday, October 21, 2020, residency programs will gain access to applications and MSPEs will be released to residency programs. These date changes are reflected on the ERAS 2021 Residency Application Timeline.

 

[Seihai]

The Coalition for Physician Accountability's Work Group on Medical Students in the Class of 2021 Moving Across Institutions for Post-Graduate Training made recommendations on major issues facing applications and training programs as they prepare for the 2021 residency application cycle. In wake of coronavirus (COVID-19), the Coalition recommends a delayed opening of ERAS for residency programs and a delayed release of the MSPE with a shared date for both.

After much consideration of everyone involved and in collaboration with AAMC affinity groups, specialty organizations, and the ERAS Advisory Committee; ERAS has determined that on Wednesday, October 21, 2020, residency programs will gain access to applications and MSPEs will be released to residency programs. These date changes are reflected on the ERAS 2021 Residency Application Timeline.

I'm so far away from residency that I'm curious of what the implications of this might be (seen and unseen). Obviously, the residency interview cycle will be more contracted, so would this lead to fewer interviews/slot (or more because of it being virtual?)

 

[Fencer]

As PDs, we have students (and applicants) at different stages of their training. COVID-19 is affecting them very differently. I have done town halls by class because their issues are so different. My program restarted clinical clerkships and most research laboratories are operating. We are doing shifts, universal masking, social distancing, and meetings no more than 10 people. We have students trying to complete projects to defend dissertations, trying to take USMLE step examinations, thinking about their ERAS applications and their preparedness for specialties, and others planning to graduate. A few classes were lucky enough to just change their modular coursework to virtual activities. It has been though .... I am also part of the leadership team in the institution for the initial transition to virtual, and for re-starting activities, while at the same time trying to do research, clinical service, and run a clinical fellowship program. I am behind but will respond tomorrow to PMs (sorry...)

We actually had schedule a free WEBINAR on Wednesday for a Q&A for applicants in this cycle. If any one of you want to participate, PM me (will respond tomorrow).

 

[hrqtalwq]

Do we know the likelihood of M1 classes being online this fall for most, if not all, programs? I know of one school that has already decided that.

 

[Fencer]

Local/regional conditions vary so much, and conditions can easily change with a second peak. My school in Texas re-started clerkships with social distancing (SD) last week. We can't have groups larger than 10, so didactics and exams have been virtual at the present. In the Fall, we are likely to have dissections in the groups of 4, after completing the virtual reality modules. So, for us, we are blessed that SD and other measures were in place really early, and we have had a sustained 2 week decrease in new COVID-19 cases (despite a lot of testing) with >80% availability in ICUs and ventilators. We are ramping up other clinical services beyond COVID-19. I believe that we will be having a hybrid mix for MS-1 education here. In the national calls and webinar, I hear much greater amounts of disruptions in the coastal cities including Northeast, California and Pacific Northwest.

 

[hrqtalwq]

How are things being revised now w/r/t M1 education with the sustained COVID cases plateau and now the increase? For the programs that delayed their start dates to September, are they considering revising to fully online semester/year?

It is surprising that MSTPs (besides a handful) have been slow in responding to these concerns. It seems like it is not just enough to ensure that local/campus conditions are adequate for testing/isolation/tracing, but that this pandemic has affected every aspect of a student's life (immigration, employment, family, health) and these factors should be taken into account against the push for 'reopening' or 'semi-online' semesters.

 

[Fencer]

Let me respond by indicating that we have spent hundredths of hours responding and making preparations, switching to virtual interviewing, virtual courses, with minimal face-to-face involvement, improving our wellness checks, etc. I can't respond for our government officials (as I was writing listening to our VP not able to say, wear a damn mask). In Texas, we had the Pandemia under control with less than 20 people in ventilators in my city, but in just 2 weeks of "personal freedoms", opening beaches and bars, and superseding county/city mandates of universal masking the tenuous check on turn into a pandemonium... (quintuple hospitalizations in 2 wks, close to 100 in ventilators). My institution is planning a hybrid education with some small groups of <25 in rooms that accommodate 100 people for some activities. In general, MD/PhD programs have relatively little control in the SOM education as most of their MD training is under close examination of the LCME accreditation requirements.