3.3 and higher GPA's

[ishabooboo]

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Ok, this is just a slightly-annoyed, slightly-saddened post about people with 3.3 and higher GPA's. Please stop complaining that your GPA is too low (seems to be a common thing Iv'e seen and I'm a pretty new SDN-er). It is not too low. Especially if you did decent on your MCAT.
AND everyone can get into med school, you just have to be flexible. I'm applying to the Caribbean med schools just in case they throw out my app before looking at the reasons for my GPA drop. I'm fairly certain I'll get in there at least, and in the end, I'll be doing the same thing as all ya'll. 😉

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Ok, this is just a slightly-annoyed, slightly-saddened post about people with 3.3 and higher GPA's. Please stop complaining that your GPA is too low (seems to be a common thing Iv'e seen and I'm a pretty new SDN-er). It is not too low. Especially if you did decent on your MCAT.
AND everyone can get into med school, you just have to be flexible. I'm applying to the Caribbean med schools just in case they throw out my app before looking at the reasons for my GPA drop. I'm fairly certain I'll get in there at least, and in the end, I'll be doing the same thing as all ya'll. 😉

I think you have a good point. Pre-meds can be an annoying bunch, and SDN is certainly disproportionately represented with high gpas and over-achievers. The caribbean thing, however, has been discussed to death.... As a primary care doc you really won't be doing the same thing as all of us. It's the same degree, but not the same thing. 'Nuff said.

 

[acrobat]

heh I say stop complaining if your GPA is low- it's your own fault. I had a 3.3 after 3 years in at the University of Wisconsin and I graduated witha a 3.563. Still too low for my state schools. I'm now up to a 3.65 or so and rapidly approaching a 3.7 via extra post-bach calsses. It's called hard work. I know so many people who have gotten in because their dad golfs with the Dean, have family alumni in that school, or because they are of a certain race that it disgusts me.

Your GPS, MCAT, experiences are all a result of how much effort you put into them. If you don't spend the nights at the library don't complain that your GPA is too low.

 

[MEG@COOL]

Really it depends on your school whether a 3.3 gpa is decent or not. At most schools its not that good. At some of the elite schools its not that bad.

 

[Chris127]

With the average GPA at my state school being a 3.64, I guess there are some being accepted with a 3.4 or lower.

 

[amojan99]

I think you have a good point. Pre-meds can be an annoying bunch, and SDN is certainly disproportionately represented with high gpas and over-achievers. The caribbean thing, however, has been discussed to death.... As a primary care doc you really won't be doing the same thing as all of us. It's the same degree, but not the same thing. 'Nuff said.

Wow, what an dingus. Why would you assume that she would go into primary care just because she is APPLYING (not going, even) to the Carribbean? There are plenty of Carribbean grads that specialize in non-primary care fields. There is no "us" vs. "them" involved here. The OP will have an MD and will be treated accordingly. Doesnt matter where its from, only matters where she ends up. That is still largely dependent upon her grades, stats, ECs far more than school reputation.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Ok, this is just a slightly-annoyed, slightly-saddened post about people with 3.3 and higher GPA's. Please stop complaining that your GPA is too low (seems to be a common thing Iv'e seen and I'm a pretty new SDN-er). It is not too low. Especially if you did decent on your MCAT.
AND everyone can get into med school, you just have to be flexible. I'm applying to the Caribbean med schools just in case they throw out my app before looking at the reasons for my GPA drop. I'm fairly certain I'll get in there at least, and in the end, I'll be doing the same thing as all ya'll. 😉

not true, some people never make it.

 

[r0b0tafflicti0n]

heh I say stop complaining if your GPA is low- it's your own fault. I had a 3.3 after 3 years in at the University of Wisconsin and I graduated witha a 3.563. Still too low for my state schools. I'm now up to a 3.65 or so and rapidly approaching a 3.7 via extra post-bach calsses. It's called hard work. I know so many people who have gotten in because their dad golfs with the Dean, have family alumni in that school, or because they are of a certain race that it disgusts me.

Your GPS, MCAT, experiences are all a result of how much effort you put into them. If you don't spend the nights at the library don't complain that your GPA is too low.

This is true in a lot of cases, but not all. You're assuming that everyone's circumstances are the same as yours, and that's not a valid assumption.

That said, I had unusual circumstances and still graduated with an above-average gpa (certainly not as high as I would've been capable of, though, had I not been working 50 hours a week and driving an hour one-way to school). . .Of course, not everyone's as smart as me 😉

At any rate, I'm not worried or bitter about anyone else's gpa or qualifications/lack thereof. I've got my own **** to worry about.

 

[r0b0tafflicti0n]

This is true in a lot of cases, but not all. You're assuming that everyone's circumstances are the same as yours, and that's not a valid assumption.

That said, I had unusual circumstances and still graduated with an above-average gpa (certainly not as high as I would've been capable of, though, had I not been working 50 hours a week and driving an hour one-way to school). . .Of course, not everyone's as smart as me 😉

At any rate, I'm not worried or bitter about anyone else's gpa or qualifications/lack thereof. I've got my own **** to worry about.

(P.S. SDN's f**in' ****s, not mine).

 

[nycpizza]

I graduated from the engineering school at Columbia and the avg GPA is 2.9. So while I know my gpa is not high enough in comparison to most premeds, I'm not at all ashamed to have the gpa that I have. Actually, i should be somewhat pleased and thankful.

 

[Anastasis]

Wow, what an dingus. Why would you assume that she would go into primary care just because she is APPLYING (not going, even) to the Carribbean? There are plenty of Carribbean grads that specialize in non-primary care fields. There is no "us" vs. "them" involved here. The OP will have an MD and will be treated accordingly. Doesnt matter where its from, only matters where she ends up. That is still largely dependent upon her grades, stats, ECs far more than school reputation.

I've got to disagree. I would agree with this last statment (the one bolded) if you were talking about comparing between American med schools (even DO & MD though a ton of people wont' agree with me). But if you go to med school in the Carribbean, patients might not care but I know other doctors, who received their degrees within the US, will not look at you the same way as a graduate of an American medical school. Those med schools are set up to train Americans who could not get into American med schools. (As opposed to Mexican med schools founded to train native Mexican doctors). That's the truth, as much as you might hate to admit it. But if you really just want to treat patients and don't care about prestige among doctors, then go for it.

 

[acrobat]

Well bottom line is you have to put the work in. Some people work their butt off for four years in undergrad and get a high GPA. Other people do poorly and get low GPAS, realize they didn't work hard and go to grad school. Instead of working hard for four years in undergrad, they work really hard for a couple years in grad school and get a high GPA so they can get in. In my case I did poor at the start of college but am now on a run of 70 credits or so of As so that my GPA is very close to a semi respectable 3.7.

So many people graduate college and then expect something for nothing. They're are always individual circumstances or if you manage to get in without doing much then congrats but most will not. There is also a big diffference depending on which state you’re in. I know someone who got in with far less than a three and a mid twenties MCAT because his dad was the golding friend of the Dean....just goes to show.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

With the average GPA at my state school being a 3.64, I guess there are some being accepted with a 3.4 or lower.

The average engineering GPA here is somewhere in the range of 2.8 to 3.0.

No one ever knows this 🙄

 

[nycpizza]

The average engineering GPA here is somewhere in the range of 2.8 to 3.0.

No one ever knows this 🙄

I know, it's really frustrating. The gpa at Columbia Engineering is 2.8-2.9. Ugh, I should have been a music major. 😛

 

[riff raff]

[...] Those med schools are set up to train Americans who could not get into American med schools. (As opposed to Mexican med schools founded to train native Mexican doctors). That's the truth, as much as you might hate to admit it. But if you really just want to treat patients and don't care about prestige among doctors, then go for it.

While this may be true, I absolutely hate this crap :thumb This isn't meant to be directed at any one individual, but to me it's the same dumb stuff people say about DOs as well.

I know two guys that are docs at Beaumont Hospital in the Detroit area, both went to some tropical wonderland for med school, and yes, because they didn't get in their first year applying and didn't want to put their life on hold to reapply the following year. Result? They're both great people, great docs, and you would have never known that they went out and had too much fun in college, got less than a 3.3 gpa, and had to go out of the states to get an m.d.

Big whoop where you got your degree from. If you're good at what you do that's all that should matter.

/rant

 

[Anastasis]

While this may be true, I absolutely hate this crap :thumb This isn't meant to be directed at any one individual, but to me it's the same dumb stuff people say about DOs as well.

I know two guys that are docs at Beaumont Hospital in the Detroit area, both went to some tropical wonderland for med school, and yes, because they didn't get in their first year applying and didn't want to put their life on hold to reapply the following year. Result? They're both great people, great docs, and you would have never known that they went out and had too much fun in college, got less than a 3.3 gpa, and had to go out of the states to get an m.d.

Big whoop where you got your degree from. If you're good at what you do that's all that should matter.

/rant

You might hate it. But it's the truth. It's also a personal decision on their part to not put off their lives. I'm not judging them for it, I'm just saying I doubt they're as respected.

And I also don't think your education is as good as what you would receive at an American school. So it's not just a matter of where you got your degree - it's a matter of how well you're trained. Look at the Board scores and tell me they're equal with US schools.

(And I don't say that stuff about DOs - I would take a DO over any MD trained in the Carribbean because to me, MD = DO. I'm going to MD route because I don't agree with the manipulation thing, kinda creeps me out honestly - kinda a phobia I guess)

 

[relentless11]

I think the take home message is to not complain regardless of what GPA you have. Do your best to improve upon what stats you have, whether it is a 2.5 or a 3.5 GPA.

Rather than dwelling upon "problems", we should think about finding a solution to the problem. Rather than endeavoring to find an easy fix-all solution, we should not be surprised that the solution may be hard and difficult.

However, the fact is, if every applicant were to have a better mentality, it would create more competition 😛

 

[juiceman311]

Your GPS, MCAT, experiences are all a result of how much effort you put into them. If you don't spend the nights at the library don't complain that your GPA is too low.

Wait, so what if I do spend my nights in the library, don't go out, and focus on my school work, and have a 3.34 GPA? I don't work hard? And what if someone just flat out sucks at verbal, gets a tutor, takes 2 courses, works his ass off for 3 months, and gets a 5 or a 6 on verbal on the MCAT? He didn't work hard? Go**** yourself.

 

[biggoron42]

i dont understand why all of you people get so bothered and personally insulted by people you don't even know. you all know how hard you have worked and what obstacles you have overcome to get where you are...i dunno why the opinion of some dude on the internet would cause all of you to get so defensive...just focus on what you need to do and get it done.

 

[juiceman311]

i dont understand why all of you people get so bothered and personally insulted by people you don't even know. you all know how hard you have worked and what obstacles you have overcome to get where you are...i dunno why the opinion of some dude on the internet would cause all of you to get so defensive...just focus on what you need to do and get it done.

He didn't bother me, I just think he has no clue what he's talking about, and if he's that narrow minded, he really really should not be considering medical school. Everything evens out in the end, he'll get what he deserves.

 

[acrobat]

"Wait, so what if I do spend my nights in the library, don't go out, and focus on my school work, and have a 3.34 GPA? I don't work hard? And what if someone just flat out sucks at verbal, gets a tutor, takes 2 courses, works his ass off for 3 months, and gets a 5 or a 6 on verbal on the MCAT? He didn't work hard? Go**** yourself."

I'm saying the numbers means something and are reflective of your effort. We're not communists. The people who work hardest deserve spaces first. The people who work hard deserve the next spots. Was it necessary to cuss me out for stating outragious ideas like rewarding hard work?

And juice- why am I narrow minded? Another unfounded accusation thrown around.


"Rather than dwelling upon "problems", we should think about finding a solution to the problem. Rather than endeavoring to find an easy fix-all solution, we should not be surprised that the solution may be hard and difficult. "

That what I have done with my app. Majored in Spanish as a second major because that is what they wanted. Worked\Volunteered as an EMT for years to get experience because that is what they asked for. Systematically improved GPA from 3.3 to 3.7 over 60-70 credits. Moved MCAT from 30 the first time I took it a 34. Worked in non profit health care also. It's a matter of identifying each problem and fixing it.

 

[nycpizza]

I'm saying the numbers means something and are reflective of your effort. We're not communists. The people who work hardest deserve spaces first. The people who work hard deserve the next spots. Was it necessary to cuss me out for stating outragious ideas like rewarding hard work?

Not always. Depends heavily on your major and what school you went to. Having a 5.0 at MIT (they are on 5.0 scale fyi) and a 4.0 at XYZ Community College --- there's a difference. I went to a school where the avg GPA was a freakin' 2.8 for christssake. Numbers are NOT always reflective of your effort.

 

[Rafa]

.

 

[acrobat]

It's obvious that engineering, math, physics, etc is harder than other majors. Competitive state schools are put you at a disadvantage.

I wonder how much weight the adcoms put into this stuff? It always seems like they just look at the raw numbers to me.

UW-Madison, my school, was probably pretty average state schools. Entering class of 29 or 30 ACT and 3.6-3.7 GPA. No MIT...

 

[beastly115]

(And I don't say that stuff about DOs - I would take a DO over any MD trained in the Carribbean because to me, MD = DO. I'm going to MD route because I don't agree with the manipulation thing, kinda creeps me out honestly - kinda a phobia I guess)

So you're saying an MD = DO but you don't think an MD = MD?

 

[nycpizza]

people always say all admins look at are raw numbers, but if you think about it...how could they NOT look at what undergrad institution you went to? It's like hiring someone w/o looking at their past work venues. I personally think they do look at your major and your ugrad school. As for raw #s, that's the whole point of the MCAT - to see how you do compared to everyone in the nation.

I don't think people w/ low GPA's should worry too much (including me). I have a low gpa and wish it was higher, but I really did give it my all as a ugrad and I can't ask for more.

A high GPA will most likely show that you DID work hard ... but a low GPA does not necessarily translate to "slacker".

 

[riceman04]

The average engineering GPA here is somewhere in the range of 2.8 to 3.0.

No one ever knows this 🙄

It is at most school

 

[Rafa]

So you're saying an MD = DO but you don't think an MD = MD?

 

[nycpizza]

It is at most school

Disagree. For instance, the Columbia College avg gpa is 3.6. Columbia School of Engineering is 2.8. I really doubt most school's gpas are <3.0.

 

[acrobat]

Disagree. For instance, the Columbia College avg gpa is 3.6. Columbia School of Engineering is 2.8. I really doubt most school's gpas are <3.0.

I don't know numbers for University of Wisconsin so I'll jsut make them up but I would guess the engineering gpas are sub 3.0. I remember reading in the Herald that they were right around a 2.8-2.9 a long time ago but memory gets fuzzy. Overall GPA would probably be at least a 3.3 I would guess. They curveed nearly every courseI took there to a B\C = 80% or a 2.5 GPA. Some smaller classes end up having no curves of course to make up for this.

 

[relentless11]

I'm saying the numbers means something and are reflective of your effort. We're not communists. The people who work hardest deserve spaces first. The people who work hard deserve the next spots. Was it necessary to cuss me out for stating outragious ideas like rewarding hard work?

I'd have to disagree with this as well. Numbers mean something yes, but it is not neccessarily based on your effort. The people who work the hardest don't neccessarily deserve spaces first.

r0b0tafflicti0n and juiceman311 both inferred that there are those that work very very hard, and quite possibly spend 100% time working to do well in coursework but may still do poorly in coursework (or sub-par). In some cases I have known people to put in more hardwork, and time studying compared to me, yet they do poorly on exams. This has nothing to do with intelligence or hardwork, but more along the lines of studying efficiently and effectively.

Additionally, others have had to work very hard at supporting MORE important things such as family, and daily lives. The outstanding applicants are the ones that can balance this with their coursework, but with things like illness and so forth, it may not be possible to maintain a high GPA while tending to other needs. It is my impression that your post may offend those that are in such a position, where you sound like you are implying that they do not do enough hardwork.

Numbers play a role yes, but far far less than you might think in the grand scheme of things, especially when you get to the interview stage. At one time (if not currently), GPA AND MCAT combined was only 1/6th of what is considered to get you into UCSF School of Medicine. With a whopping 2/3rds based on LORs and interviews. GPA and MCAT play a bigger role at schools that screen applications, but again the cutoffs are only around 3.0-3.2, and mainly affect the primary application to secondary application stage.

So if you can work day and night, and live at the library studying away. But ultimately it depends on the person, and how effectively and efficiently they study. To generalize that it is solely dependent on hardwork, and the hardest working person deserves to get first pick is a bit naive. I for example worked to support myself and my family throughout undergrad, but I have never complained about my low undergrad GPA. With the resolution of my personal challenges, and the maturation of my study habits, I have maintained a 4.0 GPA in my graduate program, and obtained a 36 on my MCAT. I don't neccessarily attribute this to hardwork relative to my undergrad days, however more importantly it is likely the result of my newly developed study habits.

I wouldn't go as far as what juiceman311 said, but I would have to say that your posts might be taken the wrong way, and at times appears to be unfortunately too generalized.

 

[acrobat]

"I have maintained a 4.0 GPA in my graduate program, and obtained a 36 on my MCAT."

I'm sure you'll be rewarded for that. If you don't get high grades over four years of work in undergrad you can always get a high gpa in two years of grad school. You must pay the piper somewhere though.


"but again the cutoffs are only around 3.0-3.2, and mainly affect the primary application to secondary application stage. "

Not in my state. You won't get an interview for the most part with less than a 3.6. This is kind of beside the point tho. I think the interviews have to evaluate you on some sort of criteria and it need to be transparent.

When I say people should be rewarded for hard work, people are offended? Grow thicker skin is all I can tell people I guess. I said the adcoms consider individual circumstances, underprivileged etc. In my case I'm a conventional candidate- if my gpa sucks, MCAT sucks, I don't have activities there is no pointing in feeling cheated or mad.

 

[Anastasis]

So you're saying an MD = DO but you don't think an MD = MD?

But it's not MD = MD; it's MD does not equal a school with lesser training that then claims you are an MD.

But I'm going to guess that you don't think MD = DO, which is bull.

 

[acrobat]

Just curious- What is different about a DO. I haven't really looked into that.

But it's not MD = MD; it's MD does not equal a school with lesser training that then claims you are an MD.

But I'm going to guess that you don't think MD = DO, which is bull.

 

[windzilla]

Not in my state. You won't get an interview for the most part with less than a 3.6. This is kind of beside the point tho. I think the interviews have to evaluate you on some sort of criteria and it need to be transparent.
.

Um in your previous post you said average was around 3.6 for your state school, that means fully 50% of the class must be sub 3.6, right? so unless, (and this is entierly possible) they accept almost all of those "more or less" interviewies with a sub 3.6, I don't see how that 3.6 thing works.

(i realize you gave a range 3.6-3.7, irregardless, i would find it odd if a fully 50% of the class below 3.7 would be above 3.6)

>After a re-reread of acrobats previous post, i realize that it was about >there undergraduate institution's matriculating freshmen. the range of ACT >given (around 30) being similar to many MCAT scores led me to incorrectly >presume it was a discussion of medical school matriculants.


As to some other posters.

Sometimes $*!t happens, and when it does, the GPA or MCAT may bare little resemblence to a persons true abilitys, effort, or merit.

Unfortunatelly these are the only reasonably effective measure adcoms have to weed through the lot of us, and so we, (and they) are slaves to it. inevitably many will slip through the cracks, on both ends. There will be incompetant doctors who had a stellar MCAT and a 3.9 gpa from USNEWS-TOP10-U.

Im not sure if anyone was actually making a case for this but...
To believe that one "deserves" a spot more than the next applicant, based on soley on GPA and MCAT is illogical, as it assumes these numbers wholly encapsulate merit, and measure it with perfect precision.

 

[acrobat]

"Um in your previous post you said average was around 3.6 for your state school"

Entering class freshman out of high school. We were talking about MIT people having a rough time. I agree.

"To believe that one "deserves" a spot more than the next applicant, based on soley on GPA and MCAT is illogical, as it assumes these numbers wholly encapsulate merit, and measure it with perfect precision."

Of course not. Clinical experiences, good letters, skin color, extra curricular activities, and descent personal statement are all also considered. That’s part of the hard work idea.

Um in your previous post you said average was around 3.6 for your state school, that means fully 50% of the class must be sub 3.6, right? so unless, (and this is entirely possible) they accept almost all of those "more or less" interviewees with a sub 3.6, I don't see how that 3.6 thing works.

(i realize you gave a range 3.6-3.7, irregardless, i would find it odd if a fully 50% of the class below 3.7 would be above 3.6)


As to some other posters.

Sometimes $*!t happens, and when it does, the GPA or MCAT may bare little resemblence to a persons true abilitys, effort, or merit.

Unfortunatelly these are the only reasonably effective measure adcoms have to weed through the lot of us, and so we, (and they) are slaves to it. inevitably many will slip through the cracks, on both ends. There will be incompetent doctors who had a stellar MCAT and a 3.9 gpa from USNEWS-TOP10-U.

Im not sure if anyone was actually making a case for this but...
To believe that one "deserves" a spot more than the next applicant, based on soley on GPA and MCAT is illogical, as it assumes these numbers wholly encapsulate merit, and measure it with perfect precision.

 

[OSUdoc08]

You might hate it. But it's the truth. It's also a personal decision on their part to not put off their lives. I'm not judging them for it, I'm just saying I doubt they're as respected.

And I also don't think your education is as good as what you would receive at an American school. So it's not just a matter of where you got your degree - it's a matter of how well you're trained. Look at the Board scores and tell me they're equal with US schools.

(And I don't say that stuff about DOs - I would take a DO over any MD trained in the Carribbean because to me, MD = DO. I'm going to MD route because I don't agree with the manipulation thing, kinda creeps me out honestly - kinda a phobia I guess)

Do you ever plan on referring your patients to a physical therapist?

You realize that DO's do this type of therapy, right? Yes, DO's learn techniques similar to those that chiropractors use, but this is only a small percentage of osteopathic manipulative medicine.

 

[rgerwin]

Dean's list at my school is only a 3.3. That's also what you need for dept. honors. A 3.6 is cum laude, so my 3.0 isn't that bad in comparison. I just keep trying to remember that.

 

[KittycooMD]

heh I say stop complaining if your GPA is low- it's your own fault. I had a 3.3 after 3 years in at the University of Wisconsin and I graduated witha a 3.563. Still too low for my state schools. I'm now up to a 3.65 or so and rapidly approaching a 3.7 via extra post-bach calsses. It's called hard work. I know so many people who have gotten in because their dad golfs with the Dean, have family alumni in that school, or because they are of a certain race that it disgusts me.

Your GPS, MCAT, experiences are all a result of how much effort you put into them. If you don't spend the nights at the library don't complain that your GPA is too low.

Ok, so the following comment has nothing to do with my or your GPA specifically, but it's for everyone on SDN, whether their scores be high or low:
I think ALL OF US (at least 9.5 out of 10) work super hard and dream about becoming doctors. This is obvious, or we wouldn't be seeking help and support on this forum. For you to say that "it's your own fault" if you have a low GPA is bull s**t, sorry to say. You don't know what people go through while in school. Can you tell me that a single mother who works 9-5 and goes to school at night isn't working hard, even if she can only pull a 3.0 because she has to work and tend to her child? Or can you tell me that a "traditional" college student who has a 3.2 while double majoring in biomedical engineering and chemistry, while still managing to be president of XX association doesn't work hard?!

And don't get me started on the whole "dad knows the dean" or "certain race" bit you pulled. Perhaps you don't know this, but racism still exists in America, and some people of "certain races" have had less opportunity than others because of discrimination. Many years ago I saw this bit on the show 20/20 about inner city kids that graduated top of their class in highschool and went on to Ivy League schools where they struggled with under 3.0 GPAs. Was this because they weren't working hard?! NO. It's because their inner-city public schools didn't teach them what they needed to succeed in college, and thus weren't demanding enough. They graduated top of their high school classes, but they themselves said they didn't feel like they knew anything, and felt they were seeing things for the first time in school. OF COURSE THEY WERE WORKING HARD, geez.

 

[beastly115]

But it's not MD = MD; it's MD does not equal a school with lesser training that then claims you are an MD.

But I'm going to guess that you don't think MD = DO, which is bull.

You guessed wrong. I do believe that MD = DO. And how do you figure that physicians that received their degree from a Caribbean school get less training than a "real" MD in the states?

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Wow, what an dingus. Why would you assume that she would go into primary care just because she is APPLYING (not going, even) to the Carribbean? There are plenty of Carribbean grads that specialize in non-primary care fields. There is no "us" vs. "them" involved here. The OP will have an MD and will be treated accordingly. Doesnt matter where its from, only matters where she ends up. That is still largely dependent upon her grades, stats, ECs far more than school reputation.

FYI, the OP said "I'll be doing the same thing as you all." Hence, based on the assumptions made by the OP in this statement (ie: going to carribean, "us", "you") I responded by saying "you" will not be doing the same thing as "us" (all). It's grammar. I'm sorry if the way it was phased was offensive to you.

If you have a problem with the fact that caribbean schools produce primary care doctors, and that the odds of matching competitive specialties such as surgery, rads, derm, etc. are slim to none from a caribean school, then please, don't shoot the messenger 🙄

 

[Anastasis]

Do you ever plan on referring your patients to a physical therapist?

You realize that DO's do this type of therapy, right? Yes, DO's learn techniques similar to those that chiropractors use, but this is only a small percentage of osteopathic manipulative medicine.

Okay - take a deep breath. Now chant with me "Anastasis was not attacking DOs, Anastasis was not attacking DOs" I have no problem with manipulation as a treatment for my patients. I personally do not want to perform the manipulations. The fact that is only a small part is why I am considering at least one DO school.

 

[Anastasis]

You guessed wrong. I do believe that MD = DO. And how do you figure that physicians that received their degree from a Caribbean school get less training than a "real" MD in the states?

Well you're starting with a lesser caliber of students anyway. People don't choose to go to Caribbean. They go there because they don't have a choice. If it really was equal, then their scores would go up because more people would choose to go there. Board scores and pass rates are lower as well. If it was equal education and the caliber of students didn't matter at all, wouldn't you see equal rates? But you don't.

Some states won't let you have a license (Cali for instance) and residency spots are limited.

So I don't think they get "less" training - I think they get inferior training.

But I don't judge anyone for going there, I just don't want people questioning my credentals, so I'm going to an American med school.

Edit: after I posted this I found this article you might find interesting: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/site/free/prl10116.htm

 

[acrobat]

kitty says - "And don't get me started on the whole "dad knows the dean" or "certain race" bit you pulled"

I am personally against people getting in because of connections like the 99% of society. As for Race luckily we have a great new chief justice and another associate justice so we can throw out race based admissions soon 🙂
It also appears Stevens may be retiring this summer also, which is a stroke of luck.

kitty also see my previous quote with regard to individual circumstances

"When I say people should be rewarded for hard work, people are offended? grow thicker skin is all I can tell people I guess. The adcoms consider individual circumstances, underprivileged etc. In my case I'm a conventional candidate- if my gpa sucks, MCAT sucks, if I don't have activities there is no pointing in feeling cheated or mad."

 

[QuantumMechanic]

kitty says - "And don't get me started on the whole "dad knows the dean" or "certain race" bit you pulled"

I am personally against people getting in because of connections like the 99% of society. As for Race luckily we have a great new chief justice and another associate justice so we can throw out race based admissions soon 🙂
It also appears Stevens may be retiring this summer also, which is a stroke of luck also.

I highly doubt that the fact that the supreme court's more conservative leanings will eliminate the more favorable look given to URMs by medical schools. Your statement demonstrates your ignorance on that issue.

 

[):(]

irregardless.

I have lost all respect for you as a human being.

Personally I think MD ? BSn Caribbean schools are tough. They take in many students who drop out of their medical because they cannot handle it. The Caribbean is far from an ideal medical school, but from what I have heard it is not an easy ride nor does everyone make it through. Their MD = my future MD or DO.

 

[Rafa]

I highly doubt that the fact that the supreme court's more conservative leanings will eliminate the more favorable look given to URMs by medical schools. Your statement demonstrates your ignorance on that issue.

Stop confusing him. Things are easier in a black-and-white world (no pun intended).

 

[acrobat]

I highly doubt that the fact that the supreme court's more conservative leanings will eliminate the more favorable look given to URMs by medical schools. Your statement demonstrates your ignorance on that issue.

well,
Grutter v. Bollinger upheld the University of Michigan Law School's consideration of race and ethnicity in admissions in 2003. They said what they did was ok. but quotas were of course not ok. This was a 5-4 decision with O'Connor as the swing of course. In dissent- Kennedy, Thomas, Rehnquist, and Scalia. Now we have Roberts as a replacement for his former mentor Rehnquist. Alito is in O'Connor's seat. If Roberts accepts another affirmative action case it would probably go the other way in a 5-4 and be deemed unconstitutional.........but you never know. Roberts seems to want to form consensi for now, but it won't last forever. Eventually they'll get some barn burner cases. I can respect liberals opinions that we should discriminate based on skin color because of past wrongs or racism but I do not agree. My opinion is -I dissent.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Okay - take a deep breath. Now chant with me "Anastasis was not attacking DOs, Anastasis was not attacking DOs" I have no problem with manipulation as a treatment for my patients. I personally do not want to perform the manipulations. The fact that is only a small part is why I am considering at least one DO school.

I was just referring to your comment about how it "creeps you out" and was just curious as to if physical therapists creep you out.

P.S. It's okay to go to DO school if you don't want to do manipulation. Only a small percentage of graduates actually do manipulation for a living. One thing that that you will still get as a DO graduate is the ability to diagnose musculoskeletal disorders with your hands.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

well,
Grutter v. Bollinger upheld the University of Michigan Law School's consideration of race and ethnicity in admissions in 2003. They said what they did was ok. but quotas were of course not ok. This was a 5-4 decision with O'Connor as the swing of course. In dissent- Kennedy, Thomas, Rehnquist, and Scalia. Now we have Roberts as a replacement for his former mentor Rehnquist. Alito is in O'Connor's seat. If Roberts accepts another affirmative action case it would probably go the other way in a 5-4 and be deemed unconstitutional.........but you never know. Roberts seems to want to form consensi for now, but it won't last forever. Eventually they'll get some barn burner cases. I can respect liberals opinions that we should discriminate based on skin color because of past wrongs or racism but I do not agree. My opinion is -I dissent.

and the lower courts and the supreme court and our entire common law justice system works off of precedents, such as cases like this one. the point is that its not the government establishing this preference for URM applicants (as in Grutter v. Bollinger at UMich, a public institution which on its own accord, gave preference to blacks and latinos). In medical school admissions, it is the AAMC which dictates which minorities are underrepresented, and that there is a clear and present need for members of the URM community to be trained as doctors to serve these communities. I would imagine that a slightly conservative court (what we have know) we see that the preference for URMs is clearly meant for the public good as ORMs such as whites and asians usually fail to serve URM communities. As a result, there is a public need for URMs to have a slight advantage when it comes to med school admission. But frankly, I don't see too many white people being kept out of med school so I, as a white male, really don't take issue with this like you do.