3.35 GPA, 3.6 BCPM GPA, 35 MCAT

[Hiyalol]

Age 23 - Indian Male like that matters lol but I just read other people doing it so guess it does.
35 on MCAT
3.35 GPA
3.6 Science + Math GPA

Apparently Adcoms look at Organic close is what I hear
Organic 1 - A
Organic 2 - B
2.5 years of Research
3 years of Clinical Experience working as a PCT (Patient Care Technician) at a hospital OR (Operating Room)
96 hours of Orthopedic PT (One of the clinics lost all my hours so there goes 50 >.>)

What else do you think I'd need to boost up my chances? I know it's really luck at this point but I would love someone's opinions.

The reason for the low GPA is because I did college in High School and being in High School I didn't have the mindset to try in anything. My parents told me to go into Physical Therapy but I ended up getting Cs and Bs mainly because I didn't find interest. So I went 2 years + 2 years in High School so 95 credits of just no trying and a 3.0 put together. It was only until I got a job working at the hospital OR that I realized this is interesting. Soon I fell in love with surgery that I would spectate surgeons when I wasn't busy, fascinated I told my parents of my love for medicine and if they supported that. Of course they did and I worked hard from a 3.0 GPA to 3.35 GPA in 3 years. There is a clear upward trend of my lowest semester being a 3.8 GPA. So 6 straight semesters with mainly As and a few Bs.

If I needed to spend another year to beef up my application what should I do?

Travel overseas and volunteer at hospitals for the under served?

What is considered a "excellent" LOR? I have great interpersonal skills so I am confident the interview will not be a problem. I am afraid that I won't be able to land one with a OA gpa like that. Any words of encouragement is welcome. Not a fan of negativity but I am a fan of the truth.

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[Ismet]

Moving to WAMC

 

[Catalystik]

Age 23
35 on MCAT
3.35 GPA
3.6 Science + Math GPA

Apparently Adcoms look at Organic close is what I hear
Organic 1 - A
Organic 2 - B
2.5 years of Research
3 years of Clinical Experience working as a PCT (Patient Care Technician) at a hospital OR (Operating Room)
96 hours of Orthopedic PT (One of the clinics lost all my hours so there goes 50 >.>)

What else do you think I'd need to boost up my chances? I know it's really luck at this point but I would love someone's opinions.

The reason for the low GPA is because I did college in High School and being in High School I didn't have the mindset to try in anything. My parents told me to go into Physical Therapy but I ended up getting Cs and Bs mainly because I didn't find interest. So I went 2 years + 2 years in High School so 95 credits of just no trying and a 3.0 put together. It was only until I got a job working at the hospital OR that I realized this is interesting. Soon I fell in love with surgery that I would spectate surgeons when I wasn't busy, fascinated I told my parents of my love for medicine and if they supported that. Of course they did and I worked hard from a 3.0 GPA to 3.35 GPA in 3 years. There is a clear upward trend of my lowest semester being a 3.8 GPA. So 6 straight semesters with mainly As and a few Bs.

If I needed to spend another year to beef up my application what should I do?

Travel overseas and volunteer at hospitals for the under served?

After 2.5 years of research, do you have any posters, publications, or presentations on your work?

Any formal physician shadowing? About 50 hours is the average, and ideally you'd include an office-based primary care doc.

You don't mention nonmedical community service. You'd get the most benefit from regular involvement in an organization that helps those in need in your own community. No need to travel abroad when you'll soon need every penny for application expenses.

Teaching and peer leadership also benefit a med school application.

Nice MCAT score.

 

[Hiyalol]

After 2.5 years of research, do you have any posters, publications, or presentations on your work?

Any formal physician shadowing? About 50 hours is the average, and ideally you'd include an office-based primary care doc.

You don't mention nonmedical community service. You'd get the most benefit from regular involvement in an organization that helps those in need in your own community. No need to travel abroad when you'll soon need every penny for application expenses.

Teaching and peer leadership also benefit a med school application.

Nice MCAT score.

Oh thank you, yes I did put up research at a few symposiums on poster boards but is that even a big thing in the application? It's not like I received some award or did anything extraordinary for science. I worked as a PCT for 3 years, I thought that is considered better than shadowing since you are actually engaging in the OR. I have spectated surgery multiple times when I had downtime during work. Is that considered shadowing? If so, how would I translate that to hours, would I just say 3 years of shadowing surgeons and anesthesiologists with the 3 years of working as a PCT in the OR?

I have volunteered at homeless shelters for church and under served communities in my local hometown. So if I was part of an organization such as "Habitats for Humanity" and volunteered there for 3 years and worked at the hospital it would have boosted my chances more?

What about GPA? I hear science is worth more than cgpa but what I'm worried about is the disparity of .25 :/ and that sounds like a red flag.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I did put up research at a few symposiums on poster boards but is that even a big thing in the application?

2) I worked as a PCT for 3 years, I thought that is considered better than shadowing since you are actually engaging in the OR. I have spectated surgery multiple times when I had downtime during work. Is that considered shadowing? If so, how would I translate that to hours, would I just say 3 years of shadowing surgeons and anesthesiologists with the 3 years of working as a PCT in the OR?

3) I have volunteered at homeless shelters for church and under served communities in my local hometown. So if I was part of an organization such as "Habitats for Humanity" and volunteered there for 3 years and worked at the hospital it would have boosted my chances more?

4) What about GPA? I hear science is worth more than cgpa but what I'm worried about is the disparity of .25 :/ and that sounds like a red flag.

1) Presenting one's research publicly is considered a positive activity for an application, moreso if it occurred at a regional or national meeting than if you did so on your own campus in a Research-Day Symposium, or similar.

2) Working or volunteering where you interact with patients would be an active clinical experience. It lets you test whether you like being around sick and injured folks in a helpful role. Physician shadowing is a passive observership, where you watch a doctor interacting with a patient. It tells you what a doctor's day is like. Most schools expect to see both types of activity. Watching surgeries is considered shadowing, but it would be a good idea to also observe doctors interacting with conscious patients, too. Generally, one keeps track of the time engaged in shadowing as no one else will be able to attest to one's hours, as well as keeping track of the doctor's name, specialty, and contact information, which the application will ask for. Since you already have three years worth, you will have to estimate.

3) What you did sounds fine. Again, you need to estimate your hours and record the names of the organizations where you gave your time. You can use your church volunteer coordinator as the contact person.

4) The disparity will cause adcomm members to look closely at your transcript. They will see that the lower grades occurred during HS. In general, an upward grade trend is noticed and appreciated. Some schools actually weight grades from recent years more heavily. Your high MCAT score will help balance the lower cGPA.

 

[Catalystik]

You can see that chances of a successful application cycle for All AMCAS Applicants over the last three years with a 3.35/35 were ~59%. Considering your decent BCPM GPA and sustained upward grade trend, I think it will higher than that: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...with-your-cgpa-and-mcat.888650/#post-12107997 Other posts in the same thread show chances based on specific ethnicities.

 

[Hiyalol]

1) Presenting one's research publicly is considered a positive activity for an application, moreso if it occurred at a regional or national meeting than if you did so on your own campus in a Research-Day Symposium, or similar.

2) Working or volunteering where you interact with patients would be an active clinical experience. It lets you test whether you like being around sick and injured folks in a helpful role. Physician shadowing is a passive observership, where you watch a doctor interacting with a patient. It tells you what a doctor's day is like. Most schools expect to see both types of activity. Watching surgeries is considered shadowing, but it would be a good idea to also observe doctors interacting with conscious patients, too. Generally, one keeps track of the time engaged in shadowing as no one else will be able to attest to one's hours, as well as keeping track of the doctor's name, specialty, and contact information, which the application will ask for. Since you already have three years worth, you will have to estimate.

3) What you did sounds fine. Again, you need to estimate your hours and record the names of the organizations where you gave your time. You can use your church volunteer coordinator as the contact person.

4) The disparity will cause adcomm members to look closely at your transcript. They will see that the lower grades occurred during HS. In general, an upward grade trend is noticed and appreciated. Some schools actually weight grades from recent years more heavily. Your high MCAT score will help balance the lower cGPA.

A more detailed path of my High School is Junior year I took College Algebra (W), Intro to Psychology (C), Senior year I took General Psychology (A), and some other courses with As, Bs, and Cs. After high school the next semester I took a biology for non-science and got a B, then proceeded to do horrible with Cs, next semester after that I got accepted into university and got As, Bs, and Cs (mainly Cs) for my first 3 semesters. After this point I had 95 credits under my belt and overall a 3.0. When I officially decided on becoming a doctor I got straight As the next semester and from there on each semester for the next six semesters (3 years) I worked hard and my lowest GPA in two of the semesters was a 3.8. But overall after six semesters I received a 3.35 cgpa and since I only took Bio 1 & 2, and Gen Chem 1 & 2 during my screw up years I had plenty of room for making up for science. Also part of the decision of me getting my act straight was my dad finding out he had prostate cancer. My whole life was a breeze and when I heard he had cancer I felt like a total waste of space in this small existence. I wanted to do something big, I truly wanted to become a doctor because I don't want another person to feel the way I felt when I heard my dad get cancer. But I don't think admissions would be kind to that knowing that death is a big factor in the health care profession and they want mature doctors that will go into the profession not to "be there as a friend" but rather as a doctor that will find the solution. I know no one's perfect but I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. After I retire from surgery, I want to teach at a medical school one day to raise the next generation of doctors but I don't know how to make that perfectly clear to admissions instead of just bluntly saying it. I want them to feel what I feel, my passion but I don't know how to show it. You said 50 hours is the average? I have exceeded that greatly since it's been 3 years. But what else? What else can I do to show them I am dead serious and that I will become a surgeon one day? Also was that story of how the upward trend started good? Because I do recall talking to an anesthesiologist and he said that adcoms deeply consider upward trends. Also I looked at the Asian being accepted and it's really low for a person with a 3.4 GPA even with a good MCAT. I do have really good interpersonal skills so I'm sure it's considered a good plus for the interview.

 

[Catalystik]

1) After I retire from surgery, I want to teach at a medical school one day to raise the next generation of doctors but I don't know how to make that perfectly clear to admissions instead of just bluntly saying it. I want them to feel what I feel, my passion but I don't know how to show it.
2) You said 50 hours is the average? I have exceeded that greatly since it's been 3 years.
3) What else can I do to show them I am dead serious and that I will become a surgeon one day?
4) Also was that story of how the upward trend started good?
5) I looked at the Asian being accepted and it's really low for a person with a 3.4 GPA even with a good MCAT.

1) Since you have no teaching experience to mention on your application to SHOW you enjoy teaching, so TELLING adcomms your future plan won't hold much weight.

2) I'd still recommend that you get in some primary care shadowing. Who do you think refers patients to surgeons? Don't you think that having an understanding of the dynamic of an ongoing patient relationship is a good idea? Also, has all your current shadowing experience given you an understanding of the positive and negative realities of practicing medicine in the US: patient advocacy, cultural sensitivity, malpractice, medical ethics, current healthcare policy, difficult patients, insurance companies, professionalism, etc. These are the questions adcomms ask at interviews.

3) Med school adcomms only care that you want to be a doctor, not about the specialty you'll eventually practice. Statistics show that 80% of med students change their minds about specialty plans once they broaden their experience. It's better for a med school application to reflect that you have an open mind about experiencing all specialties rather than being committed to a single path.

4) The history portrayed was fine, but a bit wordy if you plan to put it exactly that way on the application. Succinctness is appreciated. Your ex-English teacher or school Writing Center can help you streamline it.

5) You lose sight of the fact that only about 40% of all MD applicants get any acceptance. Also, the stats I cited are for MD applicants only. If you add some DO med schools to your list (from which you can just as easily match into a surgery residency, your odds of a med school acceptance will sky rocket.

 

[Hiyalol]

1) Since you have no teaching experience to mention on your application to SHOW you enjoy teaching, so TELLING adcomms your future plan won't hold much weight.

2) I'd still recommend that you get in some primary care shadowing. Who do you think refers patients to surgeons? Don't you think that having an understanding of the dynamic of an ongoing patient relationship is a good idea? Also, has all your current shadowing experience given you an understanding of the positive and negative realities of practicing medicine in the US: patient advocacy, cultural sensitivity, malpractice, medical ethics, current healthcare policy, difficult patients, insurance companies, professionalism, etc. These are the questions adcomms ask at interviews.

3) Med school adcomms only care that you want to be a doctor, not about the specialty you'll eventually practice. Statistics show that 80% of med students change their minds about specialty plans once they broaden their experience. It's better for a med school application to reflect that you have an open mind about experiencing all specialties rather than being committed to a single path.

4) The history portrayed was fine, but a bit wordy if you plan to put it exactly that way on the application. Succinctness is appreciated. Your ex-English teacher or school Writing Center can help you streamline it.

5) You lose sight of the fact that only about 40% of all MD applicants get any acceptance. Also, the stats I cited are for MD applicants only. If you add some DO med schools to your list (from which you can just as easily match into a surgery residency, your odds of a med school acceptance will sky rocket.

I heard people criticize D.Os, I don't understand why when on top of learning preventive care they virtually have the same training as an M.D, why is that?

Also D.O schools are considered Medical Schools as well?

I read somewhere a while back that to maintain a D.O license you have to pay a fee per year? True? If so, why?

I am going to contact a few friends from surgery to see if they will allow me to shadow them for the next year. I am calculating around 1000+ hours in (cranial, cardiac, and pediatric cardiac surgery) and in primary care I will go once a week for eight hours or whenever they will be willing to have me come in and get around 300+ hours. Also on the weekends volunteer at Habitats for Humanity? Will this boost my chances even more?

Also I took a fast track Physics course. Physics 1 + Physics 2 in one semester. The class for Physics 1 ended on October and then the same professor built in curriculum to incorporate Physics 2 so the student gets both in one semester. Viewed as bad?

I also took math courses and one science course (gen chem 1) during summer at a CC because I had nothing to do in the summer (all but one course was done before I decided for medicine). Hope that won't be a problem.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I heard people criticize D.Os, I don't understand why when on top of learning preventive care they virtually have the same training as an M.D, why is that?

2) Also D.O schools are considered Medical Schools as well?

3) I read somewhere a while back that to maintain a D.O license you have to pay a fee per year? True? If so, why?

4) I am going to contact a few friends from surgery to see if they will allow me to shadow them for the next year. I am calculating around 1000+ hours in (cranial, cardiac, and pediatric cardiac surgery) and in primary care I will go once a week for eight hours or whenever they will be willing to have me come in and get around 300+ hours. Also on the weekends volunteer at Habitats for Humanity? Will this boost my chances even more?

5) Also I took a fast track Physics course. Physics 1 + Physics 2 in one semester. The class for Physics 1 ended on October and then the same professor built in curriculum to incorporate Physics 2 so the student gets both in one semester. Viewed as bad?

6) I also took math courses and one science course (gen chem 1) during summer at a CC because I had nothing to do in the summer (all but one course was done before I decided for medicine). Hope that won't be a problem.

1) I don't know. Why don't you look at the stickies in the PreMed Osteo forum, or look for a thread that addresses the issue. My DO colleagues have been every bit as competent as those with an MD. None of them use osteopathic manual techniques that are the difference in the training the two types of schools provide.

2) Yes. They are accredited medical schools.

3) Both MDs and DOs have to pay money regularly to maintain state and federal licensure. Even a hair dresser or nail technician needs a state license to stay in business.

4) That is way too much shadowing. The primary care shadowing is the more important, and 50 total hours would be fine. Watching surgeries is fun but doesn't give you much information about doctor-patient relationships. Regular nonmedical community service to those in need, like Habitat for Humanity definitely benefits an application.

5) If you covered the entire textbook, it's no problem. Obviously, from your MCAT score, you "got it."

6) A few schools frown on CC credits, but the vast majority don't care. Again, you proved the rigor of your coursework with your excellent MCAT score.

 

[Goro]

Pure ignorance.
I heard people criticize D.Os, I don't understand why when on top of learning preventive care they virtually have the same training as an M.D, why is that?

Yes. DOs are licensed to practice medicine, prescribe drugs, practice surgery. The difference is really one of doctrine in approaching patient care. the overlaps are enormous.
Also D.O schools are considered Medical Schools as well?

Yes. I personally have a fondness for people who do H for H.
I am going to contact a few friends from surgery to see if they will allow me to shadow them for the next year. I am calculating around 1000+ hours in (cranial, cardiac, and pediatric cardiac surgery) and in primary care I will go once a week for eight hours or whenever they will be willing to have me come in and get around 300+ hours. Also on the weekends volunteer at Habitats for Humanity? Will this boost my chances even more?

No.
Also I took a fast track Physics course. Physics 1 + Physics 2 in one semester. The class for Physics 1 ended on October and then the same professor built in curriculum to incorporate Physics 2 so the student gets both in one semester. Viewed as bad?

Some MD schools don't accept CC coursework. There's no rhyme nor reason and the only thing to do is check MSAR Online, which is your friend!
I also took math courses and one science course (gen chem 1) during summer at a CC because I had nothing to do in the summer (all but one course was done before I decided for medicine). Hope that won't be a problem.[/QUOTE]

 

[Catalystik]

I was going over my transcript and forgot to mention in my "What are my chances?" post I made a few weeks ago that I had a W for Trig (Winter semester) and then when I decided to take it again during the summer (Summer 2) and got an F. My GPA did go down from a 3.0 to 2.9 something but afterwards is where my gpa average was 3.8-4.0 for the next 4 semesters, including re-taking trig and got a A to prove to admissions that I could do it. From the 2.9 I brought it up to 3.35 cgpa and 3.6 sgpa (that is with the re-takes, without it is around 3.48 GPA for MD). I am going to be applying next year for D.O.s and M.D.s but I am worried about the trig course retake. Also if they see my upward trend in GPA for 4 semesters after that Trig summer 2 course will they take into consideration that trig re-take?

The reason why I failed was too many family trips happened during that time (4 week period) and I had to take some tests early so I can leave for the trip which put me in a position to take a whole chapter test 4 days before the schedule date which only gave me 4 hours to study an entire chapter for 2 of the 4 tests. I am not the type to make excuses but that is the plain truth. I have a 35 on the MCAT which may offset any confusion about my intelligence but with the 4 straight semesters of straight As and some Bs it shows a strong upward trend. Will my recent years be taken into consideration more than my past since it is a large spike from my Cs and 2 Fs in the past (I re-took and got As on both).@Catalystik

When you want to continue a previous conversation, it's better to repost in the same thread to keep the proper context, so I quoted your question here.

So, instead of "6 straight semesters with mainly As and a few Bs," you had a bad summer then 4 semesters of high grades. Did you take any later math classes where you got an A on the first attempt? What were they?

Also, with your additional information, it seems that your original post provided GPAs that perhaps did not include both your Fs. So to be completely clear about what we're dealing with, could you clearly state your AMCAS cGPA and BCPM GPA including all college coursework attempted at HS, CC, and university calculated together (whether or not any school "forgave" a bad grade when you did better on a retake)? Also, please list your AACOMAS cGPA and sGPA (no math) which will only include the last grade earned for a given class (provided the credits were the same or greater), as they do allow grade forgiveness, even when a retake happened at another school.

If you don't have an AMCAS and AACOMAS calculator, let me know.

 

[Doctor Dream]

Some MD schools don't accept CC coursework. There's no rhyme nor reason and the only thing to do is check MSAR Online, which is your friend!
I also took math courses and one science course (gen chem 1) during summer at a CC because I had nothing to do in the summer (all but one course was done before I decided for medicine). Hope that won't be a problem.

Not to hijack OP's thread, but quick question for you or @Catalystik regarding CC's. Would a 2-year extension of my state university system be considered a CC? The name of the college I attended follows the typical University of (insert state name) at (insert city/county name). I did my first 2 years of undergrad there and am now transferring to a 4-year state college this fall.