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ghostfoot
Do any 3.8ish/36ish slide by without research experience?
I'm asking for a friend (her advisor says no).
I'm asking for a friend (her advisor says no).
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What??
Research is certainly not necessary (even though it's encouraged for the top 10 schools).
This is why advisors are useless.
Research is certainly not necessary (even though it's encouraged for the top 10 schools).
This is why advisors are useless.
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Tell her advisor that she is ignorant and should look for a job in a different field.
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Research certainly helps, expecially at the top schools, but is not totally necessary.
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Seriously? A 36 is weak? Er...
I have no "real" (i.e. basic science) research experience. I did some work in a child development psych lab, and a little in clinical psych, but depending on who you ask, that doesn't really "count". I've had pretty good luck with the application process so far though. I think clinical experience is much more a factor than research. Just my two cents.
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3.8-3.9ish. 27. no research. 2 acceptances with a third interview declined. Bam.
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your not even pretending to be serious are yoU?
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The previous poster was joking.
OP, research is anything but a requirement. It can help at the Stanfords and Harvards, but even then it's not necessary outright. At 90%+ of the med schools those numbers could easily lead to an acceptance with ZERO research. That's assuming everything else is in order with the app of course.
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unless you have something to really make you stand out, you WILL need research for the top schools (speaking from experience). these schools want unique people, with really amazing stories, and unless you have one then i'd highly suggest doing some research if you're aiming for the top 20.
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You need publications to get by with those stats. Tell her to start preparing for nursing school.
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quoting myself..the numbers you posted are definitely good enough to get into med school. but not good enough for the top schools w/o research.
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Aw, you guys are so mean! 😛
I think as long as she shows that she has occupied her spare time in some worthwhile manner, it'll be ok. Might make it tougher to get into Hopkins etc, but not med school in general. I"m assuming "lack of research" doesn't mean "no extracurriculars", if it does then you're probably in trouble.
I think as long as she shows that she has occupied her spare time in some worthwhile manner, it'll be ok. Might make it tougher to get into Hopkins etc, but not med school in general. I"m assuming "lack of research" doesn't mean "no extracurriculars", if it does then you're probably in trouble.
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of course she can get into med schools, but if she is aiming for the top, or to at least maximize her chances of acceptance, she should try and do some kind of research. tell her to get an msar book; for each med school, there's a section that evaluates what percentage of accepted students participated in X extracurricular (research, volunteering, etc.). in most, if not all, the top (15-20ish) schools, 90% or more of the incoming med class participated in some kind of research. of course, this means around 10% of all the students accepted to top med schools last cycle were accepted with zero research experience.
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:cry:
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And what exactly is so unique about having research experience for the top schools? For heaven's sake people, it doesn't matter where an MD degree comes from as long as you get it in the United States. Why are pre-meds so elitist and having to have credentials from the "top" schools in the country? Who really cares after you're working 60 hours a week where you got your MD?
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Some people believe that where you went to school may heavily influence where they're putting in their 60 hours/week in 10 years. It could be argued that excelling at any school is more important.
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Haha
Man people are so mean on these forums. It's ok Rooter, I thought your post was funny.
NOT 😀
Seriously though it was good.
NOT...
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never said it did matter where you get your MD from. all i said was that if the OP is looking to get into a top school, that it what he/she will have to do.
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If your friend has her heart set on Harvard/Yale/any other top ten, then she should try to find something to set herself apart, because everyone else with a realistic shot of getting in those schools has basically the same numerical stats. Top school generally like research. If your friend will be happy with any of the other 120ish schools in the country (most of which are great as well) then she is perfectly fine without the research. That being said, I have a lower MCAT than her, no research, and have an interview coming up with a top ten. If she's applying next cycle and she wants to go to Harvard, tell her to show a little bit of intellectual curiosity by taking a two hour research credit or something, and it should not be a factor.
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I'm at 3.83, 35, with no research. Nine interviews/invites so far (mostly at decent schools) and one acceptance (waiting to hear from the "8-10 week" schools and the non-rolling ones). But I made sure they knew why I did not do research. I have worked 20-40 hrs a week since freshman year, in addition to being a full time student, so I could pay for my undergrad and applying to med school. Every time I clarified this for them, they said it was important that I told them why and made a big deal about it. If you have a good reason (i.e. had to make bank so you don't get evicted/starve) for not doing research, most schools will understand. Just as long as you aren't filling that time with sitting on the couch watching TV. Make sure she is doing something productive with her time and she will go somewhere decent.
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You need at least a 40 to get by without reasearch, and even then, its an uphill battle. Without research, your friend will never gain such invaluable skills (ie, washing test tubes, sitting around, doing bitchwork and having someone else with a degree taking the credit) that are critical to the field of medicine. She'd be better off not even trying to apply for medicine and doing janitorial work instead.
i'm afraid i am serious, for medical schools often seek candidates who show an interest in advancing the field of medicine.
the "if you even have any" clause if for those 38+ MCAT scorers who have little more ECs than "president of the comic book club" (true story - kid got uniformly rejected .. no interviews either)
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Im still not buying, it sorry. A 3.8 and a 36 with some clinical experience should garner you an acceptance somewhere.
I guess we should just agree to disagree.
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People are absurd.
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da8s0859q
To say the very least. The only thing that would blow an acceptance is if said 3.8/36 holder is a complete f*ckin' tool come interview time.
Aren't they?
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da8s0859q
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yo i got the same issue. Ive talked to some admins at top med schools and they all told me in person (heart-to-heart) that I should really do research. I've even told them how much I hate research and I could do even more clinical experience or volunteer if i dun do research, but they all told me if I want to get into their med school I should really do research. And these guys arent just random guys, they talked to me as a friend. In front of others they would say otherwise. And to clarify, this is for MD not PhD/MD program.
Of course there is always a possibility of getting in with research, but it make the process so much harder. Without research you would have to have a more competitive stats and have a unique experience that stand out more than usual. IMO, this is BS.... but this isn't the first time med school asked me to bend over and I got a stick up my a s s (butt).
Of course there is always a possibility of getting in with research, but it make the process so much harder. Without research you would have to have a more competitive stats and have a unique experience that stand out more than usual. IMO, this is BS.... but this isn't the first time med school asked me to bend over and I got a stick up my a s s (butt).
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Have you ever done research though? You can't hate something without ever having tried it out. With a good PI, research can be alright.
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This is exactly how I feel, I quit my research job recently and I can't possibly imagine doing it again. TRUE STORY--one of the secretary got cancer and took time off so I had to fill in for her, lol. I'm ****ed now cuz I barely have any research experience and my clinical experience is short but very valuable. Im afraid med schools gonna think im a book worm who had no life but to get the good grades in school. I had a very balanced life and IMO did enough one person could do in the medical field. How does med school expect so much within 3 years of undergrad to accomplish so much?! (3 years cuz im applying as a junior)
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bloodysurgeon you talked to TOP medical schools. I think it is a consensus if you want an acceptance to a top 10 school you need research or you better be outstanding in everrrything else.
THe op asked bout medical schools in general. I talked to a dean from an average State school and he said research at their school isnt really a plus or a minus, it merely just shows that you are wellrounded. He said the only thing they really are worried about is good grades, being semi-well rounded, and getting a lot of clincal exposure so you know what you are getting into.
THe op asked bout medical schools in general. I talked to a dean from an average State school and he said research at their school isnt really a plus or a minus, it merely just shows that you are wellrounded. He said the only thing they really are worried about is good grades, being semi-well rounded, and getting a lot of clincal exposure so you know what you are getting into.
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For some reason it was very difficult for me to get a position as a research assistant. I sent around 15 resumes and 20 emails and only got 3 replies. 2 of which were letters to inform me that they are full. The one research that I was ok with, interviewed me and accepted me. This process took a month and I did this twice once in the summer and once in the fall (with no response at all during summer). After of which, I was soo excited cuz it was my first research job. They totally annihilated all hope I had after the first month of filing. after filing they allowed me to start on a new project. wow a new project, I was excited again. The new project was me calling patients up and doing questionnaires. Afterwards they said we promise we will give u more responsibility cuz they thought i was a bright kid. At that point, I did all the PIs bitch work. I would look at med chats and make calls to labs for specimens all day and then made spreadsheets for expenses and crap. All I learned out of that whole experience was when I took the initiative to pick up random files and read how the doctor diagnosed the patients with a wikipedia page in front of me.
This was great and all, but I do this all the time at home in my free time. this was nothing special from a research position. I then complained that i wasnt getting much out of the research and I asked if I could do something else. They said sure what would you like to do. The problem was, that there was really nothing that I could do. I complained again and they told me that they didnt see my interest in the research anymore (at this time I was doing secretary stuff, phones/filing again). I said I perfer to do something better but I guess I dun mind cuz i need something for med school. The PI said that was disingenuous and said I should look for other PI in another field. I then got an email the next day that pretty much said that I was fired and she gave me two names of ppl to ask for another research job. I emailed those 2 ppl and they never responded.
I was so fed up with it, I really dun want to start another research position again. I cant find a single one either and all my friends get them so easily. Now I cant even get a letter of rec from them even though I carried half the load (the crappy load might I add) of the research.
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Oh in that case, your right. however most of the top ranking schools (1-20 IMO) need research, b/c they ARE a research heavy school. Especially my state schools... god i hate and love California
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Man, that sucks
Yeah, I think it all just depends on what sort of PI and lab you work in. Some labs are actually willing to teach you and give you a project, while some labs are crappy like the one you described. I mean I actually enjoy my time in the lab, so I guess it just depends. Good luck though!
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Ridiculous question. Depends on where you're trying to get in, of course! Most places won't care if you dont have research with a 36, in my opinion, as long as you have SOMETHING else on the app.
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a 3.8 from a mid to low tier undergrad, even when coupled with a 36 mcat, is not a ticket in to any of the top schools. hell, that mcat is probably below avg. at wash u. your friend will get interviews, but will need something compelling to convert it into an acceptance.
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which state?
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So you need research to be "unique", but everyone who applies there has it? Something doens't compute....
I think people are confusing cause and effect here. Most people have research experience, therefore folks assume that you need it. According to this logic, you'd better be a science major at the top 20 schools, because hey, most matriculants are science majors.
There are some schools that are known for frowning on applicants without research (Stanford, for one), but most of the top 20's don't have a policy on this. With great stats and a compelling story, you have a shot at top schools. With merely good stats, no real story, and research, you look just like the rest of the pack and will probably be left in the dust. You want to stand out in some way, all schools like this, but many folks have research, so this will not be what will do it.
Don't try to overgame med school admissions. If you listen to what schools are asking for, you'll find out what you really need. Some schools specifically ask for research, but most (including some of the best) do not. Just do what you love, make yourself stand out from the pack, and work as hard as you can. Best of luck to everyone...
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Not true. I interviewed at UCSF with no research and I know of two coming from my postbac program who matriculated in last year's class who didn't have any research.
Most folks who apply to top med schools do. Most folks are also class officers in campus clubs. You don't need to do either to get into most top 20 med schools. Even at the top 20 schools, the majority of medical students go on to become clinicians, not researchers.
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My opinions shadow a summary of what has been written here, simply that:
1. If your friend isn't a complete dumb-butt in his interviews and has other things in his life but school, he'll get in to a state school, or low-tier private school (of course, some states will be more difficult than others).
2. If your friend is applying to top 10 schools (particularly the research-based ones like Hopkins, Harvard, and WashU), his stats are average (mine are slightly above, and I have been very average at my top 10 interviews), and no research will hurt him. It is not an absolute requirement, but with average (for top 10 schools) stats, he should do his best to get some research experience.
Therefore, if he just wants to be a doc and doesn't care where he goes (all schools are gonna be good and teach him [assuming a male friend] more than he can possibly assimilate in 4 years anyway), he'll be fine if he's not a jerk in his interviews.
If he wants a top-tier, he's gonna have to have something incredible on his app or get some research experience... Unless he's lucky... Which happens.
That's my opinion. Little more, little less.
1. If your friend isn't a complete dumb-butt in his interviews and has other things in his life but school, he'll get in to a state school, or low-tier private school (of course, some states will be more difficult than others).
2. If your friend is applying to top 10 schools (particularly the research-based ones like Hopkins, Harvard, and WashU), his stats are average (mine are slightly above, and I have been very average at my top 10 interviews), and no research will hurt him. It is not an absolute requirement, but with average (for top 10 schools) stats, he should do his best to get some research experience.
Therefore, if he just wants to be a doc and doesn't care where he goes (all schools are gonna be good and teach him [assuming a male friend] more than he can possibly assimilate in 4 years anyway), he'll be fine if he's not a jerk in his interviews.
If he wants a top-tier, he's gonna have to have something incredible on his app or get some research experience... Unless he's lucky... Which happens.
That's my opinion. Little more, little less.
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36 mcat wit 3.8ish gpa will get her in somewhere. Just research which schools lean heavily on research experience (few) and those that don't (most). Ta ta.
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Get a new advisor. Seriously, I think research is only effectively mandatory if you are considering MSTP or similar programs, otherwise it can be nice addition. Clinical experience on the other hand, is pretty much mandatory...
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I got into UTMB Galveston w/ a 32 and 3.7 gpa and had a friend get into UT Houston w/ a 29 and a 3.5. Neither of us had any research or anything extraordinary on our application so its definitely possible.
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OP: it really all depends on what your friend is after. if she just wants to be a physician, regardless of where she gets her degree, tell your friend that if she applies broadly, her numbers alone should get her in somewhere. but if she really wants to go harvard, well, she needs to start looking into research. the more prestigious schools are prestigious for their research, and that's the bottom line--and research schools want people with research experience.
3.8/36 are great numbers, but sadly, numbers alone are not sufficient to guarantee anything in the crazy and uber-competitive world of med school applications.
3.8/36 are great numbers, but sadly, numbers alone are not sufficient to guarantee anything in the crazy and uber-competitive world of med school applications.
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