3 year vs. 4 year schooling?

[shaq786]

Sorry if I sound ignorant below...

1. Whats the real difference?

2. Why would someone go to a 3 year school? Doesnt that give the presumption that a 3 year school is probably not good compared to a 4 year school? And another presumption that 3 year school students will get the lower quality pharm D jobs?

3. Wont employers like to see a 4 year student over a 3 year student for hiring?

4. My occupational handbook http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#earnings indicates the lower 10 % pharmacist recieved less than 61,000. Where could this underpayment be coming from? Privately owned pharmacies? That would probably make sense considering that people are more likely going to trust a name brand pharmacy.

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[kwizard]

1. Whats the real difference?

I think this may of been discussed before and the synopsis was that the only "major" difference is that the 3 yr route is almost all year round whereas you typically have summers off in the 4yr route (w/ the exception of P3->P4
for rotation time depending on school). So I think it becomes more of what you want and whether you would be willing to consider the additional sacrifices on your social life going to school yr round vs having a little bit more free time in a 4yr program.

2. Why would someone go to a 3 year school? Doesnt that give the presumption that a 3 year school is probably not good compared to a 4 year school? And another presumption that 3 year school students will get the lower quality pharm D jobs?

I really don't think there are any negative connotations associated w/ people who go to 3yr programs vs 4yr programs. There almost certainly wouldn't be any concerns in retail and/or hospital (having a license validates one's education). Residency training...still I really don't think it would matter as residency training on the avg isn't that competitive unless you are shooting for one of those "prestige programs". I still don't think and haven't seen cases where the 3yrs PharmD graduates have been perceived any differently than those completing 4yr programs.

3. Wont employers like to see a 4 year student over a 3 year student for hiring?

Nope, I don't think so. Again I think the total amount of education is the same given the summer classes in the 3yr program. How much of the information you actually retain will be more dependent on the student as opposed to the program they attend.

4. My occupational handbook http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#earnings indicates the lower 10 % pharmacist recieved less than 61,000. Where could this underpayment be coming from? Privately owned pharmacies? That would probably make sense considering that people are more likely going to trust a name brand pharmacy.

The lower salaries may come from those pharmacist who work in the lower paying geographic areas, lower paying sectors (i.e. Dept of Mental Health and some VA hospitals (as pay may vary largely depending on facility), ?part time pharmacists?? (not sure whether BLS data includes PT and FT workers in same category), and ??possibly academia??. Avg salary in academia is still about 78-83 k/yr (see American Association Colleges of Pharmacy).

Honestly I don't know where the pharmacists are that are making < 61k/yr, but I am pretty sure that the school they went to has nothing to do with their pay. Demand greatly outweighs the supply so unless you are trying to go for a clinical position or administrative position all the employer really wants to see is that you are licensed and reliable (w/ possibly more emphasis on being licensed ).

 

[All4MyDaughter]

1. Whats the real difference?

The lower salaries may come from those pharmacist who work in the lower paying geographic areas, lower paying sectors (i.e. Dept of Mental Health and some VA hospitals (as pay may vary largely depending on facility), ?part time pharmacists?? (not sure whether BLS data includes PT and FT workers in same category), and ??possibly academia??. Avg salary in academia is still about 78-83 k/yr (see American Association Colleges of Pharmacy).

I'd think academia, military (although military pharmacists are compensated in ways other than salary), and possibly some independent owners.

I know a pharmacist who owns a (fairly new) compounding pharmacy. He says he doesn't make much $$$ right now, but loves his job and feels that the business will build and expand with time.

I also don't think pharmacist compensation is tied to schooling at all. Here in KY if you are breathing and licensed you can get a $100K job with Walgreens tomorrow (with $15K signing bonus!).

 

[Caverject]

I'd think academia, military (although military pharmacists are compensated in ways other than salary), and possibly some independent owners.

I know a pharmacist who owns a (fairly new) compounding pharmacy. He says he doesn't make much $$$ right now, but loves his job and feels that the business will build and expand with time.

I also don't think pharmacist compensation is tied to schooling at all. Here in KY if you are breathing and licensed you can get a $100K job with Walgreens tomorrow (with $15K signing bonus!).

You'd think wrong about academia.

Academia pays a little less than a hospital pharmacist or a little more in some areas.

 

[ZpackSux]

1. The real difference = 1 year.

2. The person got into a 3year program

3. I don't care if you went to 3 or 4 year school or pharmD or BSPharm as long as you're an RPH

4. Don't worry about it..you won't be in the bottom 10%

 

[All4MyDaughter]

You'd think wrong about academia.

Academia pays a little less than a hospital pharmacist or a little more in some areas.

The salaries quoted above for academia (see Kwizard's post) are significantly less than the salaries paid for hospital at least where I'm located.

I'm sure there is regional variation.

 

[kwizard]

You'd think wrong about academia.

Academia pays a little less than a hospital pharmacist or a little more in some areas.

For salary please see the following:

http://www.aacp.org/site/page.asp?TRACKID=&VID=1&CID=105&DID=3112

Yes pay amongst other pharmacists will vary w/ region but typically the avg. pharmacist is still outmaking their academic counterparts. People are in academia for the prestige and benefits as opposed to the pay. However, one in academia can make up some of the difference via consulting and various other speakers bureau activity depending on how well you can sell yourself.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

For salary please see the following:

http://www.aacp.org/site/page.asp?TRACKID=&VID=1&CID=105&DID=3112

Yes pay amongst other pharmacists will vary w/ region but typically the avg. pharmacist is still outmaking their academic counterparts. People are in academia for the prestige and benefits as opposed to the pay. However, one in academia can make up some of the difference via consulting and various other speakers bureau activity depending on how well you can sell yourself.

That report is consistent with what I learned in graduate school about academic salaries (I have a masters in post-secondary administration/csp).

It looks like starting salaries are pretty low (60's, 70's) depending on whether you start out as assistant professor or instructor. Depending on the promotion process (tenure track or no tenure) the time it takes to be promoted to associate professor and then full professor is highly variable. Full professor salaries are higher, but I don't know how much a retail pharmacist would be making at the same point in their career.

Interesting report, thanks for posting.

 

[Caverject]

That report is consistent with what I learned in graduate school about academic salaries (I have a masters in post-secondary administration/csp).

It looks like starting salaries are pretty low (60's, 70's) depending on whether you start out as assistant professor or instructor. Depending on the promotion process (tenure track or no tenure) the time it takes to be promoted to associate professor and then full professor is highly variable. Full professor salaries are higher, but I don't know how much a retail pharmacist would be making at the same point in their career.

Interesting report, thanks for posting.

I'm sorry, but an average starting salary of 80k is not mere peanuts like y'all are making it out to be. (yes 80k! try reading the repot before you pull #'s out of the air-nobody starts as an instructor with a pharmd) There are schools now that are paying in the high 90's for starting positions. In academia you also "work your way up" the pay scale unlike retail pharmacy and hospital pharmacy. Then again, academia is not for slackers looking for the biggest dollar right away either.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'm sorry, but an average starting salary of 80k is not mere peanuts like y'all are making it out to be. (yes 80k! try reading the repot before you pull #'s out of the air-nobody starts as an instructor with a pharmd) There are schools now that are paying in the high 90's for starting positions. In academia you also "work your way up" the pay scale unlike retail pharmacy and hospital pharmacy. Then again, academia is not for slackers looking for the biggest dollar right away either.

Of course 80,000 isn't peanuts but the original question of the post was what pharmacy jobs might be in the lower quadrant of the pay scale. The report that kwizard posted seemed to validate that some academic jobs might be in that range. Some pharmd's do start out as instructor. Some stay instructors forever. Not everyone wants the additional responsibility that comes with being a professor.

The report is what it is. Of course there are places where the starting salary is higher and places where its lower.

No one's dissing academia. It's a noble calling, but it does pay less than retail or (usually) hospital. People who are attracted to teaching usually have other interests that supercede the financial one.

 

[kwizard]

I'm sorry, but an average starting salary of 80k is not mere peanuts like y'all are making it out to be. (yes 80k! try reading the repot before you pull #'s out of the air-nobody starts as an instructor with a pharmd) There are schools now that are paying in the high 90's for starting positions. In academia you also "work your way up" the pay scale unlike retail pharmacy and hospital pharmacy. Then again, academia is not for slackers looking for the biggest dollar right away either.

I don't think the intent was to imply that 80k/yr is "peanuts" rather the intent was to answer the oringal post's question of what type of salaries may potentially make up the lower bracket quoted. The schools that are paying in the 90s for faculty positions are typically those that are "clinical-faculty track" positions. Their purpose is to be competitive w/ private sector salaries as the faculty member is often expected to maintain a practice site as their primary focus and precepting students vs tenure track positions which may be more dependent on teaching/research.

Having said that, the main "issue" w/ clinical track positions are that they often are not tenure track positions, thus your contract can be reviewed/renewed annually so you kind of miss out on the potential of being promoted to tenureship (i.e. a guaranteed job for life). Given that
issue, such positions have to be more competitive w/ private sector as their retention capacity is similar to private sector. As far as other ways to make money in academia...yes you can work your way up through the ranks; however, a review for tenure typically takes 5-6 yrs. During that time you may be offered an appt up to associate level or your contract is not renewed. Also have to be willing to move around the country to get the Dept Chair or Dean Position since people rarely leave academia by their own choice so turnover is low. Therefore it may be hard to compare salaries financially when for the first 5-6yrs one person is making 20-30k less than their counterpart in private sector. Obviously all of this varies w/ one's business savy and marketability as I eluded to previously.

But again the intent was to give examples of potentially lowering paying jobs in pharmacy. Depending on what your financial responsibilities are money may not be an issue; secondly you ideally want to find an occupation that you enjoy going to everyday and also feel well compensated for the service you provide. I think we all can agree that whether you go to a 3yr or 4yr school of phamacy has very little or nothing to do w/ your earning potential after graduating (to answer the original post).