30 Dat 2.3 Gpa

[scuzfly]

Let's imagine we are all on the admissions board of a dental school. We have an applicant who is a 2.3 student. Had a couple good semesters and a couple bad semesters. Graduated with a biology degree in 5 years. School requires one year research to graduate and letters that say hes ok and letters that say this kid is smoking hot and has a fire under him to be the best of the best. If he got a 30 AA on his DAT (I said imagine) would you let him in or not?

I'll throw in that he worked part time at a retail store and has regular shadowing experience along with being a fraternity member and does an EC program over summer for 6 weeks for the last two years.


NO THIS IS NOT ME AND I'M NOT ASKING IF I WILL BE ABLE TO GET IN WITH THESE STATS. IM STRICTLY INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT KINDS OF OPINIONS WILL COME OF THIS TYPE OF APPLICANT.

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[AndyK]

Let's imagine we are all on the admissions board of a dental school. We have an applicant who is a 2.3 student. Had a couple good semesters and a couple bad semesters. Graduated with a biology degree in 5 years. School requires one year research to graduate and letters that say hes ok and letters that say this kid is smoking hot and has a fire under him to be the best of the best. If he got a 30 AA on his DAT (I said imagine) would you let him in or not?

I'll throw in that he worked part time at a retail store and has regular shadowing experience along with being a fraternity member and does an EC program over summer for 6 weeks for the last two years.


NO THIS IS NOT ME AND I'M NOT ASKING IF I WILL BE ABLE TO GET IN WITH THESE STATS. IM STRICTLY INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT KINDS OF OPINIONS WILL COME OF THIS TYPE OF APPLICANT.

If this person has consistently had a 2.3GPA throughout the 5 undergrad years, I would have to say no way. If there was a significant upward trend culminating in that GPA, I'd say acceptance is a possibility but it is not certain. I think adcoms will be very confused why your GPA was terrible and your DAT was astronomically, impossibly high. If I was on an adcom, I would probably pick a more consistent applicant with a higher GPA and a lower DAT.

 

[samdds]

I don't think so. Dental schools look at the whole package. Even though doing poor in one section doesn't mean a automatic rejection, but just doing good in a single section is not enough to gain acceptance. It's the whole package.

 

[doc3232]

Let's imagine we are all on the admissions board of a dental school. We have an applicant who is a 2.3 student. Had a couple good semesters and a couple bad semesters. Graduated with a biology degree in 5 years. School requires one year research to graduate and letters that say hes ok and letters that say this kid is smoking hot and has a fire under him to be the best of the best. If he got a 30 AA on his DAT (I said imagine) would you let him in or not?

I'll throw in that he worked part time at a retail store and has regular shadowing experience along with being a fraternity member and does an EC program over summer for 6 weeks for the last two years.


NO THIS IS NOT ME AND I'M NOT ASKING IF I WILL BE ABLE TO GET IN WITH THESE STATS. IM STRICTLY INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT KINDS OF OPINIONS WILL COME OF THIS TYPE OF APPLICANT.

so whats the point... 30 DAT is near impossible and the person to get it wouldn't have a 2.3 GPA.
by the way: why 2.3 why not 2.0....a friend has a 2.3?

 

[scuzfly]

no. Picked a 2.3 because it was above a 2.0. I figured a 2.0 is an automatic X on anything but a job and even then...

If you assume the kid had ups and downs in college...say three semesters of As and Bs followed by a year of Cs.

one section? The DAT is more than one section. I would imagine pulling a perfect score on the DAT would be impressive and show dental schools he knows the stuff. Heck...he would probably be the only person. Schools might even know him by name and want to interview him just becuase he got a 30 and know what it was he did to get a 30.


I think I would be the one on the board to say "well lets let him in. Our GPA standard is a 2.8 so if he cant keep up hes out."
I know DAT is about 4 months and GPA is about 4+ years and shows a lot more but with such a high DAT score how could you NOT let him in?

 

[scuzfly]

one more thing....I know it's not dental but you'll understand.

There were something like 3 or 5 kids who got a 42 on the MCAT last year or the year before...one of them graduated from my college (like I cared enough to remember his name). I would imagine he got interviews because of his score. He said he studied for an entire year.

 

[small]

I don't know, I think if there was an upward trend in grades or a bad year-drop out-go back kind of thing then maybe they'd get in. But if it was just random ups and downs with the grades, they'd really wonder about the stability of the student throughout dental school. Might be a genius who can score 90+ on Part I, but if he/she isn't responsible or stable enough to show up for appointments, etc...

 

[bigstix808]

in order for someone to make a 30, they would have had to study at least a little bit...so why is it that they couldn't study even less to pass some undergraduate biology classes (or any other classes reflected in that 2.3). a 2.3 IMO is a reflection of laziness, or poor judgement when it came to prioritizing (fraternity business over school, etc..)

 

[Streetwolf]

I'd let the ADA know that someone found a way to hack into their standardized test database and get the answers 🙂

 

[Montserrat]

Nitpicking here - but I didn't think you could graduate in a given major with lower than a 2.5.

 

[NewMexDent]

I definitely think that he would get in somewhere. A 30 on the DAT is quite impressive, way more impressive than a 4.00 GPA. I think there would be several schools that would be impressed by the 30 and take a chance on the guy.

 

[drteeth]

He's in! The admissions people wont be able to overlook that 30.

 

[Aceofspades]

It may all depend on how the interview goes. He/she will probably get a few interviews based on curiosity alone.

 

[SugarNaCl]

Who knows. A 2.3 is really low and a 30 seems nearly impossible to get. Maybe a shot with NYU, Temple or BU...they seem to like the high DATers. Who really knows the answer to this? 😉

 

[NSUfutureDDS]

Nitpicking here - but I didn't think you could graduate in a given major with lower than a 2.5.

Some various colleges ask that you maintain atleast a 2.0gpa in your major, so it's possible but I don't think it's so common.

 

[Danny289]

interesting!
I think he/she will get interview almost from any school. Because addmission board want to see what is this creature. even Harvard. in my experience Colmbia will be more interested than any other school to this kind of creature!
if this person can impress the admision, he/she is going to study like DAT for sure he/she is in, Gaurantee!

 

[OBL1V1ON]

if you look at the way the dat is scored i dont know if a 30 is possible. i think the highest you can get is like a 27 in a few sections and thats with getting every single question right.... ******ed i know

 

[caloriefree]

I've actually heard about someone similar to this from my friend at NYUCD. I'm not sure if the person had a 30TS or 30AA (i'm not sure if there was a 30AA in 2005.. i don't have the frequency table, but there was not a single 30AA in 2007 at least for first time takers).. but he got in with a perfect score and close to 2.0GPA to NYU (apparently the only school that accepted him) and apparently was getting straight A's throughout his first year. So, there you go, I think with a DAT score of 30, one is bound to get in somewhere no matter what your GPA.

 

[doc toothache]

We have some pretty tough SDN adcoms members. The published information on DAT frequency tables does not show a single person with AA of 30. But since we are dealing in a world of Nirvana, even with a GPA of 2.0 any school in the country would be hard pressed to deny admission to a person who would undoubtedly be one in 100K (and that's a convervative figure). Harvard and Columbia would probably even give this person a choice of a Ford GT1000TT or a Lambo Gallardo GT850 to drive to school. Academic record becomes a non issue in the face of the obvious exceptional potential.

 

[doc toothache]

I've actually heard about someone similar to this from my friend at NYUCD. I'm not sure if the person had a 30TS or 30AA (i'm not sure if there was a 30AA in 2005.. i don't have the frequency table, but there was not a single 30AA in 2007 at least for first time takers).. but he got in with a perfect score and close to 2.0GPA to NYU (apparently the only school that accepted him) and apparently was getting straight A's throughout his first year. So, there you go, I think with a DAT score of 30, one is bound to get in somewhere no matter what your GPA.

In 2005 the highest TS was a 29. There were 2 with 30 in 2006 and equal numbers in 2007. The highest AA was a 28 in 2006. The highest AA in 2005 was a 26.

 

[caloriefree]

In 2005 the highest TS was a 29. There were 2 with 30 in 2006 and equal numbers in 2007. The highest AA was a 28 in 2006. The highest AA in 2005 was a 26.

This person enrolled in NYUCD in 2006, so it could be that he took in in 2004.. or was a second time taker.. who knows.. or it may be just a rumor.
Again, the person is rumored to have gotten mostly C's and D's in his pre-reqs and I think I remember that NYU was his only acceptance.

 

[tinman831]

Some schools do have minimum GPA requirements, in which your imaginary applicant would be out of luck.

 

[tekstyle]

If I was adcom, this will be one applicant that will catch my eyes. I can't say I'll let him in in a heartbeat, but I would definitely grant him/her an interview. If i like his/her personality, is serious about the profession, and can reflect from his/her pass experiences to support how and why he/she ended up where he/she is now, i'll probably give him/her an acceptance as well. This is my opinion and what I feel. Personally, I value DAT scores over GPA because the DAT is standardized where as GPA can be inflated depending on which institution you came from.

shoot! who wouldn't be shocked with a 30 on the DAT!

 

[youngmc27]

Thay would think you cheated adn throw away your app.

 

[scuzfly]

Thay would think you cheated and throw away your app.

Because it's easy to cheat on one of these exams. IF this was me I wouldn't want to go to a school who thinks someone cheats because they get a perfect score. Guess they should throw out the 4.0 applicants because they just show 2,3,4 or even 5 years of cheating.

 

[djeffreyt]

First reaction:

Person cheated or hacked the DAT. 30 is impossible as far as I know and if I was an ADCOM and believed 30 was not a possible score (remember Scuz even talked about a couple people who got 42's on the MCAT...which is out of 45) I'd immediately assume that the only way to do the impossible is the break the rules of the test. (If it was a 28 or 29...I could believe it).

Second Reaction:

Look at the person's written response to questions regarding bad grades and/or look at the records to see what was happening with the grades. Try to undrstand the disparity or give the person an interview to figure out the disparity...but not an automatic in.

Overall though, I wouldn't give the person an auto in...would need to meet the person and talk to them and see what is happening. Besides...it may just be my opinion, but I don't think people who know how to study for a single, multiple choice test with a hundred practice test programs and files to look off of are necessarily going to be great dentists. They may do well enough at taking some of the tests at the school, but I'd question whether they could retain or had any real interest in retaining the information beyond the test and applying it to actually practicing dentistry. But if they could memorize information well enough to get a 29 on the DAT...I wouldn't mind hiring them as a fact checker.

 

[dWiz]

No. A 2.3 in undergrad is terrible...no way he/she would survive in dental school.

 

[armorshell]

No. A 2.3 in undergrad is terrible...no way he/she would survive in dental school.

You should talk to Yah-E about that

 

[jdoc04]

You should talk to Yah-E about that

I was thinking the same thing! Went from from a under 3.0er to a OMFS resident.

 

[blankguy]

GPA 2.3 with DAT of 30. Are we trying to admit aliens?🙄

The only way anybody gets that score with such a low GPA is if they hacked into the DAT exams.👎

GPA 2.3 with a DAT of 20 is much more believable😎.

 

[The Lion]

I was thinking the same thing! Went from from a under 3.0er to a OMFS resident.

Are you serious? Haha, that's funny... 😛

Back to studying...

Oh yeah, and for my answer to the OP's question, I wouldn't allow the person into dental school because there are much harder tests to go through in dental school and ultimately the licensing exam - which I highly doubt the person would do the same as with the DAT.

 

[Shunwei]

Personally, I think a 30 on the DAT is not possible and has not been accomplished. However, if it did happen, I do think that some school will take a chance on the applicant. I don't think it would be the right thing to do, because the DAT is only a standardized test while the GPA is a cumulative measure of a person's committment and endurance in the long haul. Sure, GPAs may be inflated at some institutions, but in my judgment it is still a much better gauge of how a person handles a "curriculum" rather than a four-hour exam.

On a sidenote, I do not think that a similar case, a person with a 45T but a 2.3 GPA, will ever get accepted into med school. Medical programs as a whole put a lot more weight into the GPA than dental schools. I suppose this is one reason many pre-meds consider pre-dents to be second-rate citizens, although in my opinion the notion is flawed.

 

[Hoprod3]

It brings up to many questions to do that well on one test and that poorly over 4 years.

 

[doc toothache]

So far we have "cheater" and "alien" to describe such a mythical person. Some might describe such an applicant as a prodigy.

 

[djeffreyt]

So far we have "cheater" and "alien" to describe such a mythical person. Some might describe such an applicant as a prodigy.

I think cheater comes to mind because a score of 30 is impossible...thus the cheater.

But let's say 29 instead. Okay...then maybe a prodigy, but a prodigy who showed absolutely no interest in, or a disdain for, academics for 4 years of his or her life. Again...not someone I'd admit into my dental school simply because of one test.

 

[1992Corolla]

I would tell him to do a masters degree for a year or two and if he performed well then he would be in.

 

[doc toothache]

I think cheater comes to mind because a score of 30 is impossible...thus the cheater.

But let's say 29 instead. Okay...then maybe a prodigy, but a prodigy who showed absolutely no interest in, or a disdain for, academics for 4 years of his or her life. Again...not someone I'd admit into my dental school simply because of one test.

A basic dictum in science is never to say never or impossible.

 

[djeffreyt]

A basic dictum in science is never to say never or impossible.

I know that, but thank you for the refresher course on Middle School Science 101. I don't let the scientific method rule every part of my thinking and life. But a decently fair comparison to getting a 30 on the DAT might be getting a 103% on a test which had no extra credit.

Another good example comes to mind from the Simpson's when Lisa cheated on a test by getting an old answer key and answered all the questions correct, including the last question that was completely cut off by the photocopy machine, thus getting a higher percentage correct than was actually possible.

But I've always thought the science argument of never say never was always a bit of a contradiction in terms.

 

[dr bojangles]

I think I would be the one on the board to say "well lets let him in. Our GPA standard is a 2.8 so if he cant keep up hes out."
I know DAT is about 4 months and GPA is about 4+ years and shows a lot more but with such a high DAT score how could you NOT let him in?

i feel like you're thinking here is flawed. a 30 is commendable, and maybe worth an interview, who knows the adcom formula. the gpa might carry more weight, so this student/wizard would have to show consistently good grades over a relatively lengthy time period.

also, my vote is that adcoms probably won't say "well lets let him in. Our GPA standard is a 2.8 so if he cant keep up hes out." from a business standpoint, the school wants a student to succeed. if not for making a great health professional and making the school look better (stats), but also because a student who keeps up the grades and stays in the school continues to pay tuition, and schools like money. though buckling down to study for a one-shot deal exam is great, buckling down for coursework for a few years is worth more perhaps.
in other words, the adcoms might say, as missy "misdemeanor" elliott so eloquently put it......"the school don't want no one minute man"

 

[armorshell]

I'm almost certainly biased, but I think students like this can be a good late draft pick for a school. In a school with a large class, you can afford to "take a few chances" (Quoted directly from an administrator) on students like this, and if they've shown a lot of recent improvement academically they can be amazing in school.

I'd imagine many students like this have some sort of academic chips on their shoulder, are very smart and do very well in school. A 2.3 gpa is probably a lot more about laziness and a lot less about plain stupidity, and if someone turns their habits around they can do great.

 

[Shunwei]

I'm almost certainly biased, but I think students like this can be a good late draft pick for a school. In a school with a large class, you can afford to "take a few chances" (Quoted directly from an administrator) on students like this, and if they've shown a lot of recent improvement academically they can be amazing in school.

I'd imagine many students like this have some sort of academic chips on their shoulder, are very smart and do very well in school. A 2.3 gpa is probably a lot more about laziness and a lot less about plain stupidity, and if someone turns their habits around they can do great.

A 2.3 GPA is a pretty catastrophic display of ignorance, laziness, or a combination of both. I can understand if a person has a bad semester due to personal circumstances or starts out poorly in college, but usually if a person is a conscientious individual and cares about academics, the final outcome after a four-year curriculum would not be a 2.3. I have seen plenty of cases on SDN where a person has an awful first year (C's and D's), but then pulls himself together to get A's and B's to end up with something like a 3.3 GPA. In that case, the GPA is still not great, but it says a lot about the individual's character more than a 30 on the DAT ever could. The latter just seems too much of a one-hit wonder to me, even if it can be done. And as they say, old habits die hard.

If I were on the Adcom, I would be very wary of individuals like these (if they exist). Dental school is a hard, intense four-year marathon. I would much rather have someone who has demonstrated an ability to cope with a prolonged curriculum, rather than someone who might be very intelligent (or just a good, lucky test taker) but can't sustain in the long-term.