33 MCAT, 3.02 GPA

[love_md]

Getting to the point, I want to go to an MD school. I already graduated from college with a gpa of 3.02. I'm about to start my gap year working a job to save up before medical school. I have a positive trend in gpa with my last 2 semesters being a 4.0 with 16 credits each semester. I took my mcat this summer and got a 33 (13, 10, 10). I've slacked off in the start of college and took time, upto the end of junior year for me to realize my passion for medicine.

Bio 1 with lab: C-; Retake: C+
Bio 2 with lab: D; Retake: W
Gen Chem 1/2 with lab: B-
Physics 1 with lab: B-
Physics 2 with lab: C+
Organic Chemistry 1: F; Retake: F
Organic Chemistry 2: W

These are my grades from the premed courses. I understand I still have to retake Orgo 1/2 along with Bio 2. I'm open to postbac/smp options. I know my current GPA probably won't get me in anywhere. I had a talk with my adviser who suggested my only chance into medicine would be to look at DO schools and even that would be a high reach. I am not sure where to go from here. My goal is to end up in an MD school. As far as my EC's and volunteering goes, I have a ton of stuff. The only thing lacking other than gpa is research from my application.

I've looked at the AAMC graph: https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/2013factstable25-3.pdf

Given the category I fall into, there is a 28.1% chance of acceptance for people in my situation. I'm still hopeful. Please advice on the best route to take from here.

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[prettyNURSEtoMD]

How is it that you have a 13, and a 10, but can't pass Organic? I'm not trying to be rude. Obviously, you're a good test taker, but what is wrong when it's coming down to taking the courses?

 

[candbgirl]

Finish up your pre reqs. Take a few high level bio classes and see how you do. What is your current sGPA ? Based in your grades in the pre reqs you have listed I'm baffled by your MCAT score. I don't see you being admitted to MD school with your current GPA . And if it wasn't for your MCAT it would be game over for DO and MD!

 

[chemguy79]

Getting to the point, I want to go to an MD school. I already graduated from college with a gpa of 3.02. I'm about to start my gap year working a job to save up before medical school. I have a positive trend in gpa with my last 2 semesters being a 4.0 with 16 credits each semester. I took my mcat this summer and got a 33 (13, 10, 10). I've slacked off in the start of college and took time, upto the end of junior year for me to realize my passion for medicine.

Bio 1 with lab: C-; Retake: C+
Bio 2 with lab: D; Retake: W
Gen Chem 1/2 with lab: B-
Physics 1 with lab: B-
Physics 2 with lab: C+
Organic Chemistry 1: F; Retake: F
Organic Chemistry 2: W

These are my grades from the premed courses. I understand I still have to retake Orgo 1/2 along with Bio 2. I'm open to postbac/smp options. I know my current GPA probably won't get me in anywhere. I had a talk with my adviser who suggested my only chance into medicine would be to look at DO schools and even that would be a high reach. I am not sure where to go from here. My goal is to end up in an MD school. As far as my EC's and volunteering goes, I have a ton of stuff. The only thing lacking other than gpa is research from my application.

I've looked at the AAMC graph: https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/2013factstable25-3.pdf

Given the category I fall into, there is a 28.1% chance of acceptance for people in my situation. I'm still hopeful. Please advice on the best route to take from here.

If you want to go MD, I think that you should pursue a SMP that's affiliated with a medical school. Without question, your GPA is going to hold you back from MD programs, so you need to show an ad com that you can handle the coursework. As it currently stands, your MCAT performance may seem more like a fluke than a precursor for future performance in medical school.

 

[zzxxzz]

Given the category I fall into, there is a 28.1% chance of acceptance for people in my situation. I'm still hopeful. Please advice on the best route to take from here.

Not with the fact that you have essentially failed two prereqs twice each. Your science GPA is expected to be close to your overall GPA. Med schools will view your MCAT as the luckiest fluke in your life and reject you immediately. There's no reason to think you aren't just a good test-taker (or good guesser) and can handle medical school coursework; even if you are quite brilliant, it'll appear you simply don't care about your coursework, which isn't good either.

Don't bother with an SMP yet. You should retake both semesters of bio, physics 2, and obviously both semesters of organic, then look into DO programs. If you really want to enter MD, you can look into SMPs after you finish your retakes, but you'll need to ace it.

 

[el_duderino]

Terrible grades in prereqs, especially failing a critical prereq *twice*, is going to really work against you big time.

I suggest you retake all the prereqs you listed and get an A in every single one.

 

[Goro]

Concur here...I think you need to master the pre-reqs before even thinking about a post-bac or SMP. Have a Plan B ready too.

Terrible grades in prereqs, especially failing a critical prereq *twice*, is going to really work against you big time.

I suggest you retake all the prereqs you listed and get an A in every single one.

 

[love_md]

Concur here...I think you need to master the pre-reqs before even thinking about a post-bac or SMP. Have a Plan B ready too.

Do you think my chance of attending a US MD school are close to none? If so, I rather just go to carribean. I know I can do well and perform well on the USMLE. I just need a chance to show my skills. I'm concerned md schools admission counselors are going to think the hard work I put towards my mcat is a fluke.

 

[love_md]

Finish up your pre reqs. Take a few high level bio classes and see how you do. What is your current sGPA ? Based in your grades in the pre reqs you have listed I'm baffled by your MCAT score. I don't see you being admitted to MD school with your current GPA . And if it wasn't for your MCAT it would be game over for DO and MD!

Should I consider carribean schools (St. george, AUC and Ross)? Or maybe the new MD schools that are taking their first class soon?

 

[gyngyn]

Should I consider carribean schools (St. george, AUC and Ross)? Or maybe the new MD schools that are taking their first class soon?

If there is a place for the Caribbean, it is for those who have failed after at least two well-timed, strategic applications and for whom the strong evidence that a DO degree is better received by PD's is lost. Sorry about the awkward sentence!

 

[xffan624]

Do you think my chance of attending a US MD school are close to none? If so, I rather just go to carribean. I know I can do well and perform well on the USMLE. I just need a chance to show my skills. I'm concerned md schools admission counselors are going to think the hard work I put towards my mcat is a fluke.

No one on this board is going to encourage you to go Caribbean. That fantasy that you will excel on Step 1 and in medical school even though your coursework suggests otherwise is what forms the Caribbean's business model. You will get no leeway if you fail any of your courses in medical school. They'll take you tuition and shuffle you along. Retake your prereqs. Do well on them and apply DO.

 

[edgerock24]

Someone like you should absolutely be open to attending a DO school. You are not in a position to be choosy. Retake some courses and apply DO only.

Or take the idiotic risk of attending a Caribbean school now. Up to you.

 

[candbgirl]

Should I consider carribean schools (St. george, AUC and Ross)? Or maybe the new MD schools that are taking their first class soon?

Oh heavens NO!! Do not apply to Caribbean schools. That would be a great big mistake and it will only let bigger.

Besides you have to retake a few of the pre reqs anyway. So slow down and do great in your retakes. With a few As and DO grade replacement you would be in a much better place than going to the Caribbean.

 

[Goro]

Magic thinking doesn't work in the real world. You have yet to demonstrate that you can handle UG work, much less medical school.

Do you think my chance of attending a US MD school are close to none? If so, I rather just go to carribean. I know I can do well and perform well on the USMLE. I just need a chance to show my skills. I'm concerned md schools admission counselors are going to think the hard work I put towards my mcat is a fluke.

 

[DocConk]

I'd love to know how you studied for that monster if you did badly in most of the pre-reqs, yet did well on the test. Please tell me!

 

[Catalystik]

Please advice on the best route to take from here.

Take baby steps. First retake prerequisites in which you got dismal grades, getting As. Then take original upper-level Bio/Biochem, getting As while carrying a full-time courseload. Then maybe an SMP (where you compete with first year med students) will take a chance on you since you've given proof of your potential. Again, get As. Maybe then you'll have a shot at an MD school.

 

[love_md]

Take baby steps. First retake prerequisites in which you got dismal grades, getting As. Then take original upper-level Bio/Biochem, getting As while carrying a full-time courseload. Then maybe an SMP (where you compete with first year med students) will take a chance on you since you've given proof of your potential. Again, get As. Maybe then you'll have a shot at an MD school.

Doesn't this seem like a lot for a "maybe a chance at MD schools?" I know I've messed up my undergrad. I think my best bet would be to look at post bacc programs with linkages rather than doing retakes/SMP.

 

[love_md]

Magic thinking doesn't work in the real world. You have yet to demonstrate that you can handle UG work, much less medical school.

What did my mcat demonstrate? Everyone goes to different undergraduate college; how can you be so sure that some people didn't have advantages over another? When it comes to mcat, its a standardized test where every single medical school applicant is put on the same playing field. And doing well than 85% of applicant isn't considered anything?

 

[love_md]

If you look at the chart I linked in the original post, 16/57 applicants in a similar gpa/mcat situation as mine got in. If I have strong personal statement and supportive letters, doesn't that mean I still stand a chance? I am asking for a chance from any medical school. I think there is a possibility one might accept me. Any thoughts?

 

[Catalystik]

Doesn't this seem like a lot for a "maybe a chance at MD schools?" I know I've messed up my undergrad. I think my best bet would be to look at post bacc programs with linkages rather than doing retakes/SMP.

You asked about the "best route to take," not the only route.

 

[love_md]

You asked about the "best route to take," not the only route.

If you don't mind answering, are you an adcom? If so, do you think taking your route would result in atleast one acceptance? I am limited in terms of my financial situation and want to invest in my future but I can't be wasting time/money for something that might not even lead to an acceptance letter.

 

[Catalystik]

1) If you look at the chart I linked in the original post, 16/57 applicants in a similar gpa/mcat situation as mine got in. If I have strong personal statement and supportive letters, doesn't that mean I still stand a chance?

2) I am asking for a chance from any medical school. I think there is a possibility one might accept me. Any thoughts?

1) Yes, you have a chance, but not as high as that data would suggest. Use caution in looking at these numbers. They do not specify possible mitigating factors, like Special Masters program completion with a GPA>3.7, stand-out extracurriculars, non-traditional age, legacy factor, demonstrated interest in rural med or inner-city med, first family member to attend college, economic disadvantage, people with PhDs, ex-military, participants in Teach for America, AmeriCorps, or the Peace Corps, a very-high BCPM GPA, forgiving state schools, etc.

2) If I were to pick any one US MD school that might consider you after minimal remediation, it would be Wayne, which allows 20-30 hours of excellent postbac BCPM performance to overweigh the undergrad GPA.

 

[Catalystik]

If you don't mind answering, are you an adcom? If so, do you think taking your route would result in atleast one acceptance? I am limited in terms of my financial situation and want to invest in my future but I can't be wasting time/money for something that might not even lead to an acceptance letter.

There are no guarantees in this process, even if you have high stats.. Only ~40% of applicants end up matriculating into US MD schools. Formal postbacs, including SMPs, tend to be very expensive and also don't come with guarantees. If you read their websites, they might give you odds of success for getting into med school given a certain GPA minimum, but those stats generally include both MD and DO schools, so one can't take them at face value without further investigation.

[Edited after noticing you added to the above question after first posting it.]

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Do you think my chance of attending a US MD school are close to none? If so, I rather just go to carribean. I know I can do well and perform well on the USMLE. I just need a chance to show my skills. I'm concerned md schools admission counselors are going to think the hard work I put towards my mcat is a fluke.

If you mean Puerto Rico when you say you are going to the Caribbean, I would say it's not a bad choice. But if you are talking about SGU, Ross and the like, I would say that you should think hard before doing that... May I ask why you are willing to go carib instead of US DO schools?

 

[Goro]

It says to me that you're a really good standardized test taker, which is a skill, like throwing a fastball. You did not do all that well in your retakes, and you were expected to ace them.

At this point, I believe that medical school will squash you. Suggest a SMP to show you can handle it.

What did my mcat demonstrate? Everyone goes to different undergraduate college; how can you be so sure that some people didn't have advantages over another? When it comes to mcat, its a standardized test where every single medical school applicant is put on the same playing field. And doing well than 85% of applicant isn't considered anything?

 

[DocConk]

Due to the bad grades and bad retakes of those classes, I feel as though people will look at you as someone who doesn't take classes seriously, which probably isn't a something that will resonate well with admissions committees. Sure, you may due well on USMLE, but you'd better do well in the P/F classes before you get to that stage, something that those individuals may doubt.

 

[love_md]

It says to me that you're a really good standardized test taker, which is a skill, like throwing a fastball. You did not do all that well in your retakes, and you were expected to ace them.

At this point, I believe that medical school will squash you. Suggest a SMP to show you can handle it.

Would it be better for me to pursue AUC? I've already been admitted to thier class starting January. Given that me doing well on standardized tests is looked at as a skill, I should have no problems doing well on USMLE as long as I do well in their medical classes. I want to go into general surgery. Also, I am thinking that since my chances at US MD are slim to none right now. Would St. George medical's program be better than AUC? I will have to apply and am not even sure if I'll get in but its possible.

 

[ciestar]

Would it be better for me to pursue AUC? I've already been admitted to thier class starting January. Given that me doing well on standardized tests is looked at as a skill, I should have no problems doing well on USMLE as long as I do well in their medical classes. I want to go into general surgery. Also, I am thinking that since my chances at US MD are slim to none right now. Would St. George medical's program be better than AUC? I will have to apply and am not even sure if I'll get in but its possible.

I think you're failing to miss the point that even if you rock the USMLE, you're still going to have a rough time matching into a residency.

I think it's clear you're only interested in the MD after your name. What's so wrong with DO? IMHO, you'd have a better shot at a surgery residency as a DO than an MD from the Caribbean.

 

[love_md]

There are no guarantees in this process, even if you have high stats.. Only ~40% of applicants end up matriculating into US MD schools. Formal postbacs, including SMPs, tend to be very expensive and also don't come with guarantees. If you read their websites, they might give you odds of success for getting into med school given a certain GPA minimum, but those stats generally include both MD and DO schools, so one can't take them at face value without further investigation.

[Edited after noticing you added to the above question after first posting it.]

I talked with my adviser and she said I have no chance at US MD. DO is a possibility with only a post-bacc/SMP program. She recommends I attend AUC since they are giving me my second chance. She even said that throughout the last year, she felt I've matured a lot and can see potential in me. She is pushing me to start my medical education. What do you think?

 

[love_md]

I think you're failing to miss the point that even if you rock the USMLE, you're still going to have a rough time matching into a residency.

I think it's clear you're only interested in the MD after your name. What's so wrong with DO? IMHO, you'd have a better shot at a surgery residency as a DO than an MD from the Caribbean.

I know as a DO I would have a better chance but having MD after my name will make life so much easier in the future. The last thing I want to deal with is having to explain to every single person that a DO=MD.

 

[love_md]

How is it that you have a 13, and a 10, but can't pass Organic? I'm not trying to be rude. Obviously, you're a good test taker, but what is wrong when it's coming down to taking the courses?

I always get lazy. My orgo professor allows us to only take the final which in turn becomes your grade in the class. I thought I could get by on that and unfortunately, it took me several tries to figure out that wasn't the best route.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I know as a DO I would have a better chance but having MD after my name will make life so much easier in the future. The last thing I want to deal with is having to explain to every single person that a DO=MD.

El-oh-el. I was going to come in here and give you support and advice, but you just dont seem to be soaking in what people like Catalystik and Goro are saying. A good MCAT is great, but you record shows you will likely struggle with medical classwork. Realize that failure in the Caribbean is all too common (your acceptance does not mean you will thrive)... and acing your poor prerequisites is as much a learning experience for you as it is a sign to adcoms that you're capable. I echo the advice that you look into DO after some serious retakes. Best of luck.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

-

 

[love_md]

El-oh-el. I was going to come in here and give you support and advice with my similar situation (3.0ish+ AMCAS GPA and 36), but you just dont seem to be soaking in what people like Catalystik and Goro are saying. A good MCAT is great, but you record shows you will likely struggle with medical classwork. Realize that failure in the Caribbean is all too common (your acceptance does not mean you will thrive)... and acing your poor prerequisites is as much a learning experience for you as it is a sign to adcoms that you're capable. I echo the advice that you look into DO after some serious retakes. Best of luck.

I totally agree with you. I just had double thoughts regarding being a DO for the rest of my life but it seems that its finally started to make its break. More and more people are pursuing DO schools. Also, I'm a NY resident but I went to an out-of-state school in that makes any difference. When are you applying for DO schools and are you considering some low-tier medical schools as well like Howard? Or maybe these new medical schools like Western Michigan University medical school?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Bottom line: you're not going to get into US MD, and if you don't take the time to understand what going into the Caribbean means, you deserve to be there. If you're apprehensive of the DO degree, please don't go to a DO school. We have enough qualified applicants and several thousands (that get rejected yearly) that do want to attend but cannot because there's not a spot for them.

 

[love_md]

If you mean Puerto Rico when you say you are going to the Caribbean, I would say it's not a bad choice. But if you are talking about SGU, Ross and the like, I would say that you should think hard before doing that... May I ask why you are willing to go carib instead of US DO schools?

Why would Puerto Rico not be a bad choice? Sorry but I'm not familiar with their schools. Are there any specific ones you have in mind?

 

[Catalystik]

I talked with my adviser and she said I have no chance at US MD. DO is a possibility with only a post-bacc/SMP program. She recommends I attend AUC since they are giving me my second chance. She even said that throughout the last year, she felt I've matured a lot and can see potential in me. She is pushing me to start my medical education. What do you think?

Besides the fact that if you flunk a class in a Carribe school, there are no second chances (whereas US MD and DO schools allow remediation), the current chances of matching into a US residency spot (required to practice in the US) from there is about 50% (it's about 94% for US MD and 89% from DO) and these odds will decline by the time you're ready to go through the residency match due to a marked upswing in MD and DO med school seats, and no increased funding to increase residency spots. Here are some raw stats for you to look over (click pics for larger image): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/us-md-vs-us-do-vs-aua-ross-and-sgu.888658/#post-12109604

It's a major downside to engage in a medical education that would result in a large debt and no job to pay off the debt.

 

[Catalystik]

Why would Puerto Rico not be a bad choice? Sorry but I'm not familiar with their schools. Are there any specific ones you have in mind?

Puerto Rico may be in the Carribean, but as it's a US territory, all its med schools are accredited by the same body as mainland MD schools. To be considered, one should be fluent in Spanish and have Puerto Rican ties, along with a cleaned up academic record.

 

[Catalystik]

low-tier medical schools as well like Howard?

Howard, like the other historically black medical colleges is mission-driven, rather than stats-driven, when they consider applicants. Without years of dedicated demonstrated service to those in need, an applicant wouldn't have a chance there.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Why would Puerto Rico not be a bad choice? Sorry but I'm not familiar with their schools. Are there any specific ones you have in mind?

Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the US i.e. it's a state... Puerto Rican med schools are LMCE accredited and they are just like any US medical school if you can speak the Spanish Language... Students who graduate from these schools are considered AMG just like students who graduate from Yale, FSU, Penn State etc... If one speaks Spanish, s/he should consider PR schools before heading to SGU, Ross, AUC or other schools in the Caribbean... Some people would even say it's a better choice than DO if you speak Spanish and want to avoid the so called DO stigma (whatever that means)...
http://www.lcme.org/directory.htm

 

[Goro]

By all means, go to the Caribbean. I rarely give this advice.

I know as a DO I would have a better chance but having MD after my name will make life so much easier in the future. The last thing I want to deal with is having to explain to every single person that a DO=MD.

 

[Lamel]

I know as a DO I would have a better chance but having MD after my name will make life so much easier in the future. The last thing I want to deal with is having to explain to every single person that a DO=MD.

I mean I guess, but it'll be tougher to explain why you don't have a job with an MD from the caribbean.

 

[love_md]

I mean I guess, but it'll be tougher to explain why you don't have a job with an MD from the caribbean.

I did more research and finally came down to sticking around and choosing DO.

 

[love_md]

Besides the fact that if you flunk a class in a Carribe school, there are no second chances (whereas US MD and DO schools allow remediation), the current chances of matching into a US residency spot (required to practice in the US) from there is about 50% (it's about 94% for US MD and 89% from DO) and these odds will decline by the time you're ready to go through the residency match due to a marked upswing in MD and DO med school seats, and no increased funding to increase residency spots. Here are some raw stats for you to look over (click pics for larger image): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/us-md-vs-us-do-vs-aua-ross-and-sgu.888658/#post-12109604

It's a major downside to engage in a medical education that would result in a large debt and no job to pay off the debt.

By all means, go to the Caribbean. I rarely give this advice.

Thanks for your help. It definitely helps getting feedback from physician/faculty members about issues like these. I was being negligent of the prestige associated with US physicians, md or do regardless. I realize now that it doesn't matter what two letters are after your name, only thing that matters is what you make of your degree. As someone, whose passion is medicine, I cannot find any other field that will satisfy my urge.

 

[love_md]

I'm thinking about doing an unofficial post-bacc. I will enroll as a part time student and take courses. Do I have to take upper level bio classes or can I also take history/sociology/business classes?

 

[Catalystik]

I'm thinking about doing an unofficial post-bacc. I will enroll as a part time student and take courses. Do I have to take upper level bio classes or can I also take history/sociology/business classes?

You can take any classes you like, but science coursework does double duty in raising both your cGPA and BCPM/sGPA.

If the idea of invoking the grade forgiveness policy for AACOMAS (DO) schools seems appealing, since it's the fastest way to raise your GPAs, keep in mind that the replacement grade must be the same credits or more, that the retake need not be at the same school, and that the course title needn't be identical so long as the course content is demonstrably similar per the course catalogs (which can be tricky if a lab is embedded vs an extra class). Only the most recent grade is used to calculate your application GPAs.

IMO, you do have to take upper-level Bio to prove that you can excel in med school-like classes on the first pass (if you didn't do so over the last year when your GPA rose).

 

[Goro]

The non-science stuff will NOT help convince us that you can handle medical school.


Do I have to take upper level bio classes or can I also take history/sociology/business classes?[/QUOTE]

 

[love_md]

The non-science stuff will NOT help convince us that you can handle medical school.

How many upper level bio classes would you recommend? And how should the grades be in these bio classes? All A's or is it okay to have B's as well.

 

[love_md]

You can take any classes you like, but science coursework does double duty in raising both your cGPA and BCPM/sGPA.

If the idea of invoking the grade forgiveness policy for AACOMAS (DO) schools seems appealing, since it's the fastest way to raise your GPAs, keep in mind that the replacement grade must be the same credits or more, that the retake need not be at the same school, and that the course title needn't be identical so long as the course content is demonstrably similar per the course catalogs (which can be tricky if a lab is embedded vs an extra class). Only the most recent grade is used to calculate your application GPAs.

IMO, you do have to take upper-level Bio to prove that you can excel in med school-like classes on the first pass (if you didn't do so over the last year when your GPA rose).

The first time I took Organic Chemistry, it was a 5 credit class with one grade combined for lecture and lab. The 2 retakes were 3 credits for lecture and 2 for lab. But the lab portion I aced. So I only have to take the lecture component again. Is this fine?

 

[Catalystik]

The first time I took Organic Chemistry, it was a 5 credit class with one grade combined for lecture and lab. The 2 retakes were 3 credits for lecture and 2 for lab. But the lab portion I aced. So I only have to take the lecture component again. Is this fine?

I strongly recommend that you contact AACOMAS and ask this question to be crystal clear on how this tricky situation would be handled were you to apply through their application service.

E-mail: [email protected]