33O... retake MCAT?

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lavinia

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Okay, just to respond to some of the posts, I am not trying to make anyone feel bad (and I apologize if I did, person who said this post is "burning their eyes")... I just want some honest advice, because I've been getting conflicting advice from my advisors. The thing is, I think I could do better on my second try... I was averaging about a 12/13 in the verbal section on practice exams, but got a 10 on the real thing. I also would like to at least have a shot at some top-tier schools, and I think having a higher MCAT score would give me a better chance in that respect. I know there's always the risk of doing worse, though, which is why I'm considering my options.
 
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no, if you dont get in to a school it WONT be b/c your mcat is too low. make sure the other aspects of your app are in order and apply.
 
Which school told you this?

33O is just fine.
 
SRS? 33O might be below average for TOP tier, but you'd definitely be in the safe range for a lot of state schools and other excellent schools. Unless you were averaging 41S on your practice tests and really really have your heart set on some top tier research giant, don't bother wasting your time and money. Just get some interesting ECs in.
 
this thread burns my eyes
 
OP, don't listen to all these haters. A 33O will never get you into a good medical school never. Being ORM, you need at least a 43S. Just sayin'. Good luck.




SPOILER ALERT! |
SPOILER ALERT! v
[/sarcasm]

OP, retaking makes little sense. If you don't get in w/ a 33, it's because of something else, not your MCAT score. BTW, don't be a prestige *****.
 
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WashU probably won't be happy with your MCAT, but you should be. I was going to say unless you're score is like 15/3/15 (exaggerated obviously) you shouldn't retake, but your Verbal was 10 anyway, so you're still fine. Don't retake unless you were consistently averaging 40's on the AAMC FL's and something made you screw up on test day.
 
Did anything unusual happen on the day of the interview, like you being ill or something along those lines? A retake might be worth it if you're determined to go to a research-heavy school, and you know you can do better the next time. But if all you want is to go to any school, then retaking is not worth it.


​
 
lavinia said:
I am not pursuing MD/PhD because I'm more interested in practicing clinical medicine (and, frankly, because my stats are probably not strong enough for MD/PhD programs), but I definitely want to do research in medical school. So, yes. I am interested in large research universities... which are unfortunately more competitive :/
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When you're in med school research tends to be given out hierarchically first to the people with high MCAT scores and whatever's left to the peons. There also isn't any research available at most of the med schools in the country that aren't 'more competitive' and 'large'...gotta retake
 
lavinia said:
My GPA is average and I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of race (I am Asian... aka overrepresented minority). I've been told my MCAT score is "borderline" by a medical school director, albeit at a top-tier school.
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no mcat is going to impress a top school. if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have < 30, if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have a 42, if they don't want you, they won't pick you.

proceed with application.
 
WeAreNotRobots said:
no mcat is going to impress a top school. if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have < 30, if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have a 42, if they don't want you, they won't pick you.

proceed with application.
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Are you suggesting that admission at top schools is independent of MCAT scores...
 
WeAreNotRobots said:
no mcat is going to impress a top school. if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have < 30, if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have a 42, if they don't want you, they won't pick you.

proceed with application.
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What?!??!?
 
THat's a fine score, why retake? Like someone else said, your MCAT score won't be the factor that denies you admission (if you are rejected).
 
wanderer100 said:
What?!??!?
Click to expand...


There are 42s who got in nowhere. Check the AAMC statistics and we see that of the 1221 people w/ a 39+, 134 were denied everywhere. Further, of the 728 w/ 3.8+ GPAs and 39+ MCATs, 39 were denied everywhere they applied. In other words, while high MCAT & GPA are important, they are not omnipotent in the admissions process.
 
I think a 33 should be enough to merit an interview at some of the top schools,especially if your Ecs are on point.
 
apumic said:
There are 42s who got in nowhere. Check the AAMC statistics and we see that of the 1221 people w/ a 39+, 134 were denied everywhere. Further, of the 728 w/ 3.8+ GPAs and 39+ MCATs, 39 were denied everywhere they applied. In other words, while high MCAT & GPA are important, they are not omnipotent in the admissions process.
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Yea, but the percentages are in favor of those with higher scores, so i don't see your point.
And we all know MCAT and GPA are the first things schools look for, so having a higher MCAT makes a huge difference. If the OP went to a school that wasn't a top school it becomes even more important.
 
theWUbear said:
Are you suggesting that admission at top schools is independent of MCAT scores...
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nope. i'm suggesting it's a friggen crapshoot. a PERFECT mcat score wouldn't guarantee you ANYTHING at a top school. that's all. so retaking a good score is not worth it.
 
wanderer100 said:
Yea, but the percentages are in favor of those with higher scores, so i don't see your point.
And we all know MCAT and GPA are the first things schools look for, so having a higher MCAT makes a huge difference. If the OP went to a school that wasn't a top school it becomes even more important.
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High MCAT &#8800; admission to medical school. You answered "WHAT?!" which I initially assumed was a joke but some of your later responses seemed to seriously be in disbelief that it happens. It does. At some point (really right about a 33 MCAT for people w/ 3.8-4.0 GPA), an increase in MCAT basically makes almost no difference (an increase of 6 pts on the MCAT at GPA 3.8-4.0 and MCAT 34 to 42 gives a +4.8% chance vs. 6 pts on the MCAT at GPA 3.8-4.0 and MCAT 28 to 34, which gives a +15.4% increase -- in other words over 3 times the change in acceptance rate!
 
Perhaps I should give more concrete numbers. I have ~3.6 GPA, so it is not between 3.8-4.0 by any means... which is part of the reason why I think a higher MCAT score would be pretty helpful. Just sayin'
 
apumic said:
High MCAT &#8800; admission to medical school. You answered "WHAT?!" which I initially assumed was a joke but some of your later responses seemed to seriously be in disbelief that it happens. It does. At some point (really right about a 33 MCAT for people w/ 3.8-4.0 GPA), an increase in MCAT basically makes almost no difference (an increase of 6 pts on the MCAT at GPA 3.8-4.0 and MCAT 34 to 42 gives a +4.8% chance vs. 6 pts on the MCAT at GPA 3.8-4.0 and MCAT 28 to 34, which gives a +15.4% increase -- in other words over 3 times the change in acceptance rate!
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Overall chances may not change that much, but chances at any particular school almost always increase, especially if it's a top school.

Edit: See here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10468558&postcount=260
 
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wanderer100 said:
Overall chances may not change that much, but chances at any particular school almost always increase, especially if it's a top school.

Edit: See here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10468558&postcount=260
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hahaha what? overall chances are directly determined by your chances at the schools you apply to, and your chances are less-determinable at top schools. unless you tell me that the first time you applied with a 33 and didn't get in anywhere, only to apply this cycle with your 36 (all else held constant) and to earn some acceptances, i don't think you should tell someone else to retake a 33.

and that link you posted actually supports my statements about the importance of other things besides mcat score.
 
WeAreNotRobots said:
no mcat is going to impress a top school. if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have < 30, if they want you, they will pick you. even if you have a 42, if they don't want you, they won't pick you.

proceed with application.
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WeAreNotRobots said:
nope. i'm suggesting it's a friggen crapshoot. a PERFECT mcat score wouldn't guarantee you ANYTHING at a top school. that's all. so retaking a good score is not worth it.
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Its only a crapshoot when you look at a school individually, and while I agree that even a perfect MCAT score doesn't guarantee you anything at a top school (nothing can guarantee you anything at a top school) I believe a 45 would probably impress them, if only for its rarity.

If you have great numbers and apply broadly, you may not get in anywhere because you're not a great applicant overall. If you're a great applicant, including great numbers, and you apply broadly, you will get in somewhere.
 
This thread sucks. Do you guys really think that two (hypothetical) otherwise identical applicants, one with a 33 and one with a 40, have identical shots at getting in to most top twenty schools?
 
wanderer100 said:
This thread sucks. Do you guys really think that two (hypothetical) otherwise identical applicants, one with a 33 and one with a 40, have identical shots at getting in to most top twenty schools?
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WANR's point is not that a higher MCAT score won't make you more competitive than an identical applicant with a lower score, its that a competitive but not uber-competitive MCAT (such as a 33) won't preclude you from going to a top tier school if you're a good fit for them otherwise. Obviously the 40 is the better competitive applicant in your example.

On the other hand, Mayo uses a formula to screen secondaries, and if the applicant with a 33 had a low enough GPA (no idea how low to drop below the formula result cutoff) they wouldn't even be considered. If they had a higher MCAT, they might be able to compensate and pass the screen.
 
For what it's worth, I have a 33 and would never retake it in a million years.

Of course, I have no desire to ever attend a top school. 🙂

If you have dreams of attending a top school, work on the other parts of your application. You could always do worse on a retake, and a slight improvement won't make a significant difference anyway.
 
Maxwell7301 said:
For what it's worth, I have a 33 and would never retake it in a million years.

Of course, I have no desire to ever attend a top school. 🙂

If you have dreams of attending a top school, work on the other parts of your application. You could always do worse on a retake, and a slight improvement won't make a significant difference anyway.
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👍
 
I think it would nice if we could finally settle what MCAT scores are acceptable for certian races, in addition we should note which range are accepted for the top 10, top 25, top 50 ect. I think this would clear up alot of confusion.
 
Techmed07 said:
I think it would nice if we could finally settle what MCAT scores are acceptable for certian races, in addition we should note which range are accepted for the top 10, top 25, top 50 ect. I think this would clear up alot of confusion.
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Ok, to please you, here are some completely arbitrary ranges I have "established" as minimum cutoffs for competitiveness for school tiers and races:

Tier / URM / White / Asian
Top 10 / 32+ / 34+ / 35+
Top 40 / 30+ / 32+ / 33+
Mid 40 / 28+ / 30+ / NA*
Low 40 / 25+ / 28+ / NA
DO&PR / 20+ / 24+ / NA


Hope that helps :laugh:


*Just kidding?
 
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gettheleadout said:
WANR's point is not that a higher MCAT score won't make you more competitive than an identical applicant with a lower score, its that a competitive but not uber-competitive MCAT (such as a 33) won't preclude you from going to a top tier school if you're a good fit for them otherwise. Obviously the 40 is the better competitive applicant in your example.
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Yes, and we're not simply talking about someone applying with a 33 vs someone else applying with a 40...we're asking if it's worth retaking the mcat after getting a 33. Unless the OP was getting 40's in practice tests, and there was some abnormality on the test day that threw him/her off his/her game, it's a fine score. Also, I think any added benefit of getting a higher score would be outweighed by the douchie-ness associated with retaking a 33.
 
WeAreNotRobots said:
Yes, and we're not simply talking about someone applying with a 33 vs someone else applying with a 40...we're asking if it's worth retaking the mcat after getting a 33. Unless the OP was getting 40's in practice tests, and there was some abnormality on the test day that threw him/her off his/her game, it's a fine score. Also, I think any added benefit of getting a higher score would be outweighed by the douchie-ness associated with retaking a 33.
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Meh, I wouldn't feel bad for retaking a 33 if I met the conditions we've both mentioned. I think the ideal benefit of retaking a 33 for a 37+ is that if you're not the rare case where you're obviously the perfect matriculant for X top school, you will be more competitive than the other essentially identical applicants out there applying with you.
 
gettheleadout said:
Meh, I wouldn't feel bad for retaking a 33 if I met the conditions we've both mentioned. I think the ideal benefit of retaking a 33 for a 37+ is that if you're not the rare case where you're obviously the perfect matriculant for X top school, you will be more competitive than the other essentially identical applicants out there applying with you.
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Again, for top schools the deciding factor is not "a fantastic mcat vs a really good mcat." it's usually more like, here's a pool of people that surpass some mcat/gpa threshold, and so we're gonna take the ones that are really unique, perfect fits, or have done something truly remarkable outside of the norm.

I feel like you've already said this though and now we're going in circles...And we pretty much agree overall. So, nice talk.
 
WeAreNotRobots said:
Again, for top schools the deciding factor is not "a fantastic mcat vs a really good mcat." it's usually more like, here's a pool of people that surpass some mcat/gpa threshold, and so we're gonna take the ones that are really unique, perfect fits, or have done something truly remarkable outside of the norm.

I feel like you've already said this though and now we're going in circles...And we pretty much agree overall. So, nice talk.
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I get that, I just can't imagine the full enrollment of all the top schools is outstandingly unique people. There have to be some people that are superstar applicants, but lack that random "I'm the only one in the country that did this" EC. Assuming some of the acceptees to top schools are like this, and that our hypothetical applicant is "normal" (in that sense) as well, it'd be better to have a higher MCAT. I'm saying when top school X has accepted all the truly unique people it is interested in, between the remaining, essentially identical applicants, it would probably take MCAT into account, at the very least for choosing interviews. But maybe I'm reading in to this too much.

In any case I'd retake a 33 just for the hell of it if I was confident I could go up 5+ points.

And yes, we basically agree lol.
 
gettheleadout said:
I get that, I just can't imagine the full enrollment of all the top schools is outstandingly unique people. There have to be some people that are superstar applicants, but lack that random "I'm the only one in the country that did this" EC...

And yes, we basically agree lol.
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Of course the top schools can't only select the super-ballers...they need some normal people for diversity.
 
WeAreNotRobots said:
Of course the top schools can't only select the super-ballers...they need some normal people for diversity.
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Haha that would be a great answer to a diversity essay on a secondary...

"What do you bring to the table at our institution?"

"Well, most students at your school aren't normal, so basically I'm URM."

:laugh:
 
https://www.aamc.org/download/157598/data/table25-a-mcatgpa-grid-asian-0810.pdf.pdf

According to this Asian-specific MCAT vs GPA grid, you probably have about a 75% chance of getting accepted somewhere, whereas the average Asian applicant has only a 44.6% chance of getting accepted somewhere. I think these are good enough odds; it wouldn't be worth the risk of getting a lower score. If you got, say, a 12 or 13 on one of the science sections, it would be bad for that score to drop. If you're consistently breaking 35 and scoring at least as well in every section as you did on test day, THEN consider going for it. But at this point I think the most important thing will be applying early, broadly, and with good ECs and LORs.

Here are the links for the other races, in case anyone is curious: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html
 
WeAreNotRobots said:
Again, for top schools the deciding factor is not "a fantastic mcat vs a really good mcat." it's usually more like, here's a pool of people that surpass some mcat/gpa threshold, and so we're gonna take the ones that are really unique, perfect fits, or have done something truly remarkable outside of the norm.
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^ This ^
 
you have a solid score. if you retake there is a chance you will score lower. don't retake, beef up your app in other ways. get amazing letters of rec.
 
apumic said:
Ok, to please you, here are some completely arbitrary ranges I have "established" as minimum cutoffs for competitiveness for school tiers and races:

Tier / URM / White / Asian
Top 10 / 32+ / 34+ / 35+
Top 40 / 30+ / 32+ / 33+
Mid 40 / 28+ / 30+ / NA*
Low 40 / 25+ / 28+ / NA
DO&PR / 20+ / 24+ / NA


Hope that helps :laugh:


*Just kidding?
Click to expand...

🤣

Also, Apumic just to make sure is the statistical stringency of your data at the .05 or .01 level?
 
Scotty knows said:
🤣

Also, Apumic just to make sure is the statistical stringency of your data at the .05 or .01 level?
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p<<0.001, actually. SPSS gave me a readout of "p<0.000" so whatever that means.... :laugh:
 
lavinia said:
My GPA is average and I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of race (I am Asian... aka overrepresented minority). I've been told my MCAT score is "borderline" by a medical school director, albeit at a top-tier school.
Click to expand...

Take it again only if you know you can get a 38+ this time.
 
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