$350k medical school loan debt, no degree, no degree prospects! What can/should I do?

[Eustrr622]

I'm a screwup! I've been dismissed from med school after failing the step 1 board exam. I did ok during my first 2 years, but was crippled by procrastination, would end up waiting until a week before the exam to starting to seriously study. Anyway, I passed all of my classes, but mostly by last-minute memorization, not really learning the material. This really caught up to me in 2014, after my second year, when beginning 2 months of dedicated prep for step 1. Anyway, I could never seem to get started studying, I postponed step 1, lied about why to add extra time, failed on 1st attempt in May 2015, delayed for another year, then finally kicked out after postponing the exam again last month. Like I said, I'm a complete ****-up! So at this point I have $350,000 in student loan debt, $100k in private loans from undergrad and postbacc, the rest federal loans for medical school. I have a B.A. in Biology, which currently qualifies me for tech jobs paying ~35k, or teaching, with similar salaries. Do I have any options for a career to pay off this debt? I've considered pharmacy or PA programs, but would need to complete 1-2 years of pre-req courses, but I seriously doubt I'd be admitted if I disclose my medical school failure, with a 3.25 undergrad GPA. Do I have any options for escaping this complete mess I've made of my life?

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[deleted564680]

Yep, you could try to file a lawsuit against your school. I have heard (rumor alert) that students have won lawsuits against their school(s) in the past for this type of thing. You can claim that they didn't give you what you paid for, that they didn't prepare you well enough, etc. because you passed all of your classes.

I mean, it sounds like you're just not mentally capable of passing it and becoming a physician (not everyone is cut out for it) but hey, you could try to get your tuition money back.

As far as a future career...only you can really decide that but I think anything healthcare related like MD/DO, PA, dental would be out due to this failure. Maybe pharm?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Kind of surprised they kicked you out after one failure. I am assuming this had something to do with the time extensions, but I would also assume a school would work with you on this. If there was foul play by the school, then you might consider speaking to a lawyer about this (I am not the best person to give advice about this).

I am not sure what to say about professional school or graduate schools, but if you are going to pursue it then you will need 2 years course work before you apply. In this time, you should she a psychologist about your procrastination. It seems like something chronic if it has been going on for two year straight (there are people who have procrastination anxiety and can be paralyzed by fear of certain of high stakes situations, not saying you have this but worth consideration). Once you have this in check and have good grades, this would be the time to apply. This is will be a big sacrifice, but a necessary one if you want to apply to professional schools again. In the end, you will be facing an uphill battle if you go this route.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

What school do you go to? If you are not comfortable saying it here, feel free to message me.

 

[kenjixshadow]

For OP, https://www.dropoutclub.org/ is a good site to explore. Look for public service job(s) to obtain federal loan forgiveness. You still have that 100k private loans to pay off. It will take a while, but it is doable. Goodluck.

Kind of surprised they kicked you out after one failure. I am assuming this had something to do with the time extensions, but I would also assume a school would work with you on this. If there was foul play by the school, then you might consider speaking to a lawyer about this (I am not the best person to give advice about this).

In some schools (including MD schools), they require you to finish the degree by 6th year and it seems like OP may have passed the deadline and will not graduate on time.

What school do you go to? If you are not comfortable saying it here, feel free to message me.

OP should not be disclose his/her school as this case may potentially end up in a lawsuit.

 

[MrChance2]

you have options.

You can get your loans forgiven with public service jobs ex: teaching, working with undeserved as a PA or something with 10 years service.

Remember you can't get jailed for being in debt in America, the most they can take is 10% of your income so basically any other career that would be open to you is still open to you.

I'd be very surprised if you can't pull in at least $50K/yr teaching biology as someone who got into medical school and made it through the first 2 years.

 

[Giovanotto]

What was it about studying and taking Step 1 that you weren't able to overcome?

 

[DrMikeP]

Working for a nonprofit can get loans forgiven in 10yrs with a cap of 10-15% of your income for payments. Sorry to hear med school didn't work out, but in 10yrs you can at least be even.

check out ibrinfo.org for info.

 

[hallowmann]

Kind of surprised they kicked you out after one failure. I am assuming this had something to do with the time extensions, but I would also assume a school would work with you on this. If there was foul play by the school, then you might consider speaking to a lawyer about this (I am not the best person to give advice about this).

I am not sure what to say about professional school or graduate schools, but if you are going to pursue it then you will need 2 years course work before you apply. In this time, you should she a psychologist about your procrastination. It seems like something chronic if it has been going on for two year straight (there are people who have procrastination anxiety and can be paralyzed by fear of certain of high stakes situations, not saying you have this but worth consideration). Once you have this in check and have good grades, this would be the time to apply. This is will be a big sacrifice, but a necessary one if you want to apply to professional schools again. In the end, you will be facing an uphill battle if you go this route.

OP got kicked out because they surpassed the ability to complete the exam and degree requirements within 6 yrs (i.e. 150% of the normal time required to complete the degree). A lawsuit would be a waste of money and end up being lost even if OP could find a lawyer willing to take the case.

OP, your only option is to do what others have said and try for loan forgiveness, a process that will take at least 10, but possibly up to 20 years on consistent income based payments. This will not touch your private loans and will also leave you with a tax bomb at the end of forgiveness that may even require you to take out another loan (if you can't save the necessary money), but at least it'll help you be rid of the bulk of your debt.

Depending on what you mean for tech jobs, you may actually be able to find a better paying job that may even be willing to pay for you to get certification part time to increase your earning potential. Its certainly possible in the field to make almost double what you elect, but it would take time and a lot of work. Things like cytology, radiology techs, etc. all come to mind. You're going to have to start looking at the long game from here on out.

First things first, you need a job to start paying off those loans. Good luck, I hope it all works out.

 

[Azete]

Honestly, no bull****, if it were me I would move to another country. There are some folks that say you have a moral obligation to pay back the loans you took out -- but you never earned the degree. Every loan, whether federal/private or student/business, is an investment. They invested in you, and some investments lose.

Unfortunately, unlike every other loan, these don't go away with bankruptcy. So, instead of resigning myself to a lifetime of financial turmoil, I would just move to another country. Get a fresh start -- some places may even highly value your US med school education.

 

[user3]

Honestly, no bull****, if it were me I would move to another country. There are some folks that say you have a moral obligation to pay back the loans you took out -- but you never earned the degree. Every loan, whether federal/private or student/business, is an investment. They invested in you, and some investments lose.

Unfortunately, unlike every other loan, these don't go away with bankruptcy. So, instead of resigning myself to a lifetime of financial turmoil, I would just move to another country. Get a fresh start -- some places may even highly value your US med school education.

The REPAYE plan for federal loans has an interest subsidy that will effectively prevent most peoples' balances from growing over ~3-3.5%/year, plus interest does not capitalize. So the situation isn't as grim as it could be as far as federal loans are concerned. (Private loans are another story)

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Did OP go to a US school? Or did he/she drop out Caribbean?

Regardless...I feel for ya OP. Hope you figure it out bruh.

 

[W19]

PharmD...

That's the best case scenario.

 

[Azete]

The REPAYE plan for federal loans has an interest subsidy that will effectively prevent most peoples' balances from growing over ~3-3.5%/year, plus interest does not capitalize. So the situation isn't as grim as it could be as far as federal loans are concerned. (Private loans are another story)

Even so, paying that balance on a ~$50k salary just seems insane. Yes you can use some of the IBR plans, and pay a relatively low amount over 20 or so years, but for what? He took those loans under the assumption he would have higher earning potential, and now he doesn't.

I think it's way too easy for folks to get loans sometimes (especially in undergrad), but I also don't think you should be liable to pay it back if you don't actually earn the degree.

 

[HotLunch96]

...I also don't think you should be liable to pay it back if you don't actually earn the degree.

this is why my federal loans are at 6-7% interest. You're telling me because this person didn't earn the degree like they were 'promised', they shouldn't be held accountable for the debt they agreed to take on? The onus is on the borrower to make good on those loans and the risk therein of the possibility of not graduating. They didn't put in the time and effort necessary to succeed, so now everyone else has to foot the bill? Ridiculous.

I say this coming from the standpoint of a medical student and not an undergrad. We all know the student loan debt crisis that is present in our country largely due to how easy it is to get student loans from uncle sam as an 18 year old with zero credit and zero collateral. That's a whole another ball of wax.

As it stands OP, you're kinda left with the PAYE and public service route of employment for 10 years. Not much else you can do.

 

[Azete]

this is why my federal loans are at 6-7% interest. You're telling me because this person didn't earn the degree like they were 'promised', they shouldn't be held accountable for the debt they agreed to take on? The onus is on the borrower to make good on those loans and the risk therein of the possibility of not graduating. They didn't put in the time and effort necessary to succeed, so now everyone else has to foot the bill? Ridiculous.

I say this coming from the standpoint of a medical student and not an undergrad. We all know the student loan debt crisis that is present in our country largely due to how easy it is to get student loans from uncle sam as an 18 year old with zero credit and zero collateral. That's a whole another ball of wax.

As it stands OP, you're kinda left with the PAYE and public service route of employment for 10 years. Not much else you can do.

My point was that student loans should be viewed the same as a business loan. If the business goes under, the person isn't responsible for paying the loan back unless they have a personal guarantee -- which can be negated with bankruptcy.

The onus should be on the lender to make smart loan decisions; the debt crisis has everything to do with ease of access and very little to do with irresponsible borrowing. The people not paying their loans back shouldn't have been given the loans in the first place, just like homeowners shouldn't have been given mortgages during the housing crisis.

It has nothing to do with a "promised" degree, it's just basic investing principles. And, for reference, 95% of all medical students pay their loans back -- which is the easiest risk analysis ever for a lender and why private banks beg med students to take their money. Even if 5% never make a payment, the other 95% still make it a very wise investment.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

What was it about studying and taking Step 1 that you weren't able to overcome?

Unpopular opinion but this isn't the first time it's happened, particularly with DO schools. A 3.25 GPA doesn't at all mean someone won't get 250+ on Step1, but it isn't a sign of stellar motivation and time management.

Like they said, they've always scraped by the bottom scores acceptable. Sometimes, that's not enough. This is one of those cases

 

[HotLunch96]

this is why my federal loans are at 6-7% interest. You're telling me because this person didn't earn the degree like they were 'promised', they shouldn't be held accountable for the debt they agreed to take on? The onus is on the borrower to make good on those loans and the risk therein of the possibility of not graduating. They didn't put in the time and effort necessary to succeed, so now everyone else has to foot the bill? Ridiculous.

I say this coming from the standpoint of a medical student and not an undergrad. We all know the student loan debt crisis that is present in our country largely due to how easy it is to get student loans from uncle sam as an 18 year old with zero credit and zero collateral. That's a whole another ball of wax.

My point was that student loans should be viewed the same as a business loan. If the business goes under, the person isn't responsible for paying the loan back unless they have a personal guarantee -- which can be negated with bankruptcy.

The onus should be on the lender to make smart loan decisions; the debt crisis has everything to do with ease of access and very little to do with irresponsible borrowing. The people not paying their loans back shouldn't have been given the loans in the first place, just like homeowners shouldn't have been given mortgages during the housing crisis.

It has nothing to do with a "promised" degree, it's just basic investing principles. And, for reference, 95% of all medical students pay their loans back -- which is the easiest risk analysis ever for a lender and why private banks beg med students to take their money. Even if 5% never make a payment, the other 95% still make it a very wise investment.

I wholeheartedly agree that it has been 'bad business' conducted by the gov't with the haphazard lending that occurs. What I'm getting at is that, as you said, even though the default rate for med students is minuscule in comparison, it doesn't preclude the borrower from their financial responsibility.

 

[lymphocyte]

I'm a screwup! I've been dismissed from med school after failing the step 1 board exam. I did ok during my first 2 years, but was crippled by procrastination, would end up waiting until a week before the exam to starting to seriously study. Anyway, I passed all of my classes, but mostly by last-minute memorization, not really learning the material. This really caught up to me in 2014, after my second year, when beginning 2 months of dedicated prep for step 1. Anyway, I could never seem to get started studying, I postponed step 1, lied about why to add extra time, failed on 1st attempt in May 2015, delayed for another year, then finally kicked out after postponing the exam again last month. Like I said, I'm a complete ****-up! So at this point I have $350,000 in student loan debt, $100k in private loans from undergrad and postbacc, the rest federal loans for medical school. I have a B.A. in Biology, which currently qualifies me for tech jobs paying ~35k, or teaching, with similar salaries. Do I have any options for a career to pay off this debt? I've considered pharmacy or PA programs, but would need to complete 1-2 years of pre-req courses, but I seriously doubt I'd be admitted if I disclose my medical school failure, with a 3.25 undergrad GPA. Do I have any options for escaping this complete mess I've made of my life?

There's been lots of good advice so far, lots of options for you, but here's some more: take care of yourself. Let your mom or dad or someone who loves you give you a big hug. Get some exercise. See a doctor if you're feeling depressed or suicidal. Your situation sucks, but, as they say, this too shall pass. Just don't go through it alone. You are not alone.

We don't live in feudal Europe. Bankruptcy to discharge private debt is not a moral failing. It's a tool that society has developed to encourage risk-taking by people and businesses alike. You took a risk. It didn't work out. Talk to an attorney about discharging your private debt.

The federal loans very likely won't be discharged, but PAYE or IBR caps your repayment. Nothing about your life seems irredeemable. You might not be a doctor, but you're very likely not going to be destitute either: that puts you right along side the vast majority of Americans. What's wrong with that? You mention teaching, and that can be a fantastic career, offering pension, excellent healthcare, and generous time-off in some States. You still have a good future in front of you.

Also, I've noticed that people crippled by procrastination often struggle with anxiety, and they use procrastination as a strategy to cope with that anxiety. This is very common and can be debilitating. Maybe this happened to you? In the long-run, it might benefit you to talk to a psychiatrist or psychologist about developing different coping strategies. But in the short run, just please take care of yourself along with the excellent advice above.

I wish you the very best of luck.

 

[Igor4sugry]

So at this point I have $350,000 in student loan debt, $100k in private loans from undergrad and postbacc, the rest federal loans for medical school. I have a B.A. in Biology, which currently qualifies me for tech jobs paying ~35k, or teaching, with similar salaries.

100k with private lenders is quite tough. Did parents co-sign these? These private banks will go after you with all their might to get their money back (or after your parents if they co-signed).
The government loans are not a problem as you can enter IBR/PAYEE program.
Not sure that you will ever pay off your private loans in your adult working life unless you get help from parents or a well earning spouse.

 

[lymphocyte]

.

 

[Igor4sugry]

On $350k your yearly interest is $21k. Wait till they capitalize your interest and compounding takes off on this large balance at high interest rate. This is a loan amount that is manageable essentially with a physician level of income. You will never catch up just due to interest accumulation.

Medical schools need to emphasize weekly "you are here to pass Step I at end of year 2".

 

[deleted547631]

For the $250K Federal loans: Go on PAYE and look for a PSLF-eligible job.
For the $100K private loans: refinance once working and seek financial hardship options from the lender to help you pay them off.

 

[Dave Chester]

Remember you can't get jailed for being in debt in America, the most they can take is 10% of your income so basically any other career that would be open to you is still open to you.

Really? I have heard of "debtor prison" in the US...

 

[hallowmann]

Really? I have heard of "debtor prison" in the US...

That's with regards to delinquent court/citation fees, which is ridiculous on a separate level, but not with regards to federal loans.

 

[zyxab]

There's been lots of good advice so far, lots of options for you, but here's some more: take care of yourself. Let your mom or dad or someone who loves you give you a big hug. Get some exercise. See a doctor if you're feeling depressed or suicidal. Your situation sucks, but, as they say, this too shall pass. Just don't go through it alone. You are not alone.

We don't live in feudal Europe. Bankruptcy to discharge private debt is not a moral failing. It's a tool that society has developed to encourage risk-taking by people and businesses alike. You took a risk. It didn't work out. Talk to an attorney about discharging your private debt.

The federal loans very likely won't be discharged, but PAYE or IBR caps your repayment. Nothing about your life seems irredeemable. You might not be a doctor, but you're very likely not going to be destitute either: that puts you right along side the vast majority of Americans. What's wrong with that? You mention teaching, and that can be a fantastic career, offering pension, excellent healthcare, and generous time-off in some States. You still have a good future in front of you.

Also, I've noticed that people crippled by procrastination often struggle with anxiety, and they use procrastination as a strategy to cope with that anxiety. This is very common and can be debilitating. Maybe this happened to you? In the long-run, it might benefit you to talk to a psychiatrist or psychologist about developing different coping strategies. But in the short run, just please take care of yourself along with the excellent advice above.

I wish you the very best of luck.

You'll be a great doctor.

 

[JGimpel]

Open a DO school.

 

[Goro]

OP will have to stand in line behind the Touros and LECOM!

Open a DO school.