3rd/4th years, am i out of line here?

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lakersbaby

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hope i dont get bashed here but i wanted some opinions on a situation im having.

so i had my family medicine rotation, i worked pretty damn hard at it and the main site director told me that i did great and that my grade will depend on how i do on my shelf, to me that meant he'd give me honors on his end and then i just had to do well on the shelf. i got along with all the residents and attendings and did pretty much everything that was asked of me plus more.

so i honor my shelf exam, and then get back my clinical grade and its a 4.3 which gives me a high pass (4.5 is honors). the guy ended up giving me a 4 on professionalism even tho in comments he wrote that i was very professional, all i need is that 4 to be a 5 and i'd have honors.

would this be a real classless move to ask him if he would consider changing that professionalism grade? I've gotten a 5 on professionalism on every single rotation so far.

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go ahead and ask but don't push too hard and realize it'll probably be futile
 
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I'm a lowly M2, but I'd imagine that a consideration here would be whether or not you plan to ask him to write you a LOR. If so, I wouldn't say anything. If not . . . well, I don't know, I'm just a lowly M2.
 
funny thing is he offered to write me a LOR
 
Don't do it. A lot of attendings are kind of clueless at times about the fact that they're going to really put a dent in your grade by giving you a 4/5, but that's life.
 
Do it. In the long run who cares if your family medicine attending says no. That is the worst case scenario from you asking.
 
Do it. In the long run who cares if your family medicine attending says no. That is the worst case scenario from you asking.

if you're not getting an LOR, i don't think it hurts to ask - in a nice, nonpushy way.
 
If your attending is approachable and you have a good relationship with him, maybe you can run into him and bring it up "casually"?
 
If your attending is approachable and you have a good relationship with him, maybe you can run into him and bring it up "casually"?

i do like that advice however this attending is at an off site
 
If your attending is approachable and you have a good relationship with him, maybe you can run into him and bring it up "casually"?

If you strongly believe you deserve a higher grade you're not going to show him by happenstance.
 
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the guy ended up giving me a 4 on professionalism even tho in comments he wrote that i was very professional, all i need is that 4 to be a 5 and i'd have honors.

would this be a real classless move to ask him if he would consider changing that professionalism grade? I've gotten a 5 on professionalism on every single rotation so far.


what would a 5/5 professional do?
 
High pass vs. honors is not going to change much for you. I've heard some attendings talk about how much they hate students grubbing for grades. Let it go.
 
I don't know jack about crap because I'm not an MS yet, but perhaps ask him for some feedback on how you could have been more professional? Sort of a nudge in the "why did you give me a 4/5" direction? I'm sure you could phrase it tactfully.
 
What I would do is call as if I'm following up on the LOR then casually mention that the shelf was good and that I almost honored except for that 4. If there's any sort of sympathetic response then I'd ask about a change. Otherwise just play it off (e.g. oh well, such is life) and move on.
 
What I would do is call as if I'm following up on the LOR then casually mention that the shelf was good and that I almost honored except for that 4. If there's any sort of sympathetic response then I'd ask about a change. Otherwise just play it off (e.g. oh well, such is life) and move on.

that's a sweet idea. i like :thumbup:
 
Do not approach him directly

I have had this happen, Here is what I did.

Go above him to your clerkship director etc, and explain that he told you you did great, and show them how his evaluation said you were very professional yet he only gave you a 4.

Ask your clerkship director to send him an e-mail explaining how changing it to a 4-5 makes the difference between high pass and honors, asking him point blank what grade he things you deserve.

Then wait.

In my case, the attending simply didn't understand the grading system and did feel I deserved honors, so that's the grade I got.

Best of Luck!
 
Do not approach him directly

I have had this happen, Here is what I did.

Go above him to your clerkship director etc, and explain that he told you you did great, and show them how his evaluation said you were very professional yet he only gave you a 4.

Ask your clerkship director to send him an e-mail explaining how changing it to a 4-5 makes the difference between high pass and honors, asking him point blank what grade he things you deserve.

Then wait.

In my case, the attending simply didn't understand the grading system and did feel I deserved honors, so that's the grade I got.

Best of Luck!

I like this idea. ^^
 
]so i had my family medicine rotation, i worked pretty damn hard at it and the main site director told me that i did great and that my grade will depend on how i do on my shelf, to me that meant he'd give me honors on his end and then i just had to do well on the shelf. i got along with all the residents and attendings and did pretty much everything that was asked of me plus more.

so i honor my shelf exam, and then get back my clinical grade and its a 4.3 which gives me a high pass (4.5 is honors). the guy ended up giving me a 4 on professionalism even tho in comments he wrote that i was very professional, all i need is that 4 to be a 5 and i'd have honors.

WELCOME TO 3RD YEAR.

Get used to disappointing grades despite glowing clinical reviews and evaluation comments that use words like "outstanding" and "top student." It sucks and it's not fair, but that's the way it goes. The only way to make certain that you honor everything is to throw your fellow students under the bus so that you consistently look good. If you're unwilling to compromise your morals and stab other students in the back, focus on the shelf exams. They are more crucial to your grade than anything.
 
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Yeah dude, 3rd year grading blows. If you do well clinically, the shelf will screw you. If you do well on the shelf, your resident/attending will screw you. You will be screwed over all year long. I'm f^&king tired of getting screwed so I just don't care anymore. I do my best and I say f*^k it.
 
I'll tell you exactly what I would do. I would meet up with the attending face to face and ask him why you only got a 4/5 when he said you were very professional. Verbatim, I'd say, "Sir, I was wondering why you scored me a 4/5 for professionalism when you stated that I am very professional? What should I have done differently? I am asking because I do not want to make these same mistakes repeatedly in the future although I have scored 5/5 on all previous rotations...also, the 4/5 knocked me down from honors to high pass". I'd say that word-for-word. Nothing disrespectful. Best case, he may change it (although, you know he isn't changing ****), worst case, you find out what made you unprofessional.

Family med knocked me down on professionalism too even though I was probably the most professional on that rotation than any other, and all others have specifically commented on my professionalism. Whatever.
 
I'm f^&king tired of getting screwed so I just don't care anymore. I do my best and I say f*^k it.

This happened to me about halfway through my 3rd year. I stopped worrying about grades and trying to impress everyone, and instead focused on learning what I needed to know for both the shelf and for medical practice in real life. I also lightened up and started having more fun both at and outside of work - I started going out again on weekends and the occasional weeknight (even at the expense of a full night's sleep). Oddly enough, I ended up doing significantly better in the second half of my 3rd year, probably because I was less stressed out and wasn't trying so hard and thus putting undue pressure on myself.

The back half of my year was comprised of surgery, OB, and pediatrics, so it wasn't that I had the cushier rotations during this period. But I made the most out of my time at the hospital, volunteered to do anything and everything that sounded fun or interesting, studied for shelf exams during downtime (e.g. between OR cases, on L&D when nobody was being admitted/delivering), and when I went home, what little free time I had was completely my own.

3rd year grades are probably one of the most important parts of your residency application, in addition to USMLE scores and letters. So, it's natural to feel concerned when you're not performing at the "honors" level in every rotation. We have been bred since kindergarten to settle for nothing less than being #1. However, I don't think anyone has yet figured out the algorithm for success. In my own personal experience, a couple of the students that excelled in 3rd year were also some of the laziest, most unmotivated and unreliable students I've ever met, who happened to be exceptionally (almost unfairly) bright and also uncannily astute at brown-nosing and being in the right place at the right time, so that they would be observed doing the job that they otherwise would be shirking. Others were clinical superstars who put in extra hours and deserved every "H" on their transcript. Some were lucky, while others used less-than-honorable tactics to gain higher favor than their fellow 3rd years. Then again, there are many who worked their rear ends off, only to be demolished in the end by the shelf exam or by one mediocre evaluation out of 10 otherwise stellar reviews. And there's always the idiopathic "fluke" that can't be explained by any rational means.

3rd year grading is extremely subjective and makes absolutely no sense. Many of our final grades and evaluations were submitted by attendings we had never met or interacted with. This will probably be your experience as well. It's extremely frustrating, especially if you are one of the unfortunate students who performs well, but just *not well enough.* That said, 3rd year is not the time for grade-grubbing. Keep focused on what's important - learn what you need to learn in the hospital/clinic, study for your shelf exams, smile and be nice to people, help out your team, and try to be fun to be around, and the rest will follow. Most importantly, stay interested. A lack of interest will be reflected upon negatively in your evaluation. If you find that you really hate a particular rotation, find at least one thing that really turns you on and ask to do all of them (e.g. if you hate OB and want to go into rads or EM, ask to do all the prenatal and admission ultrasounds. If you hate being in the OR, get really proficient at vac/dressing changes and postop progress notes, and volunteer to assist with floor work).

A note of encouragement - 4th year is a huge ego-boost. It's essentially impossible not to get honors in your electives (as long as you show up and do the work), and you will honor your Sub-Is if you show your strong desire and interest in that particular field. It's not difficult to work extra-hard on your Sub-I if it's a field that you really enjoy and take pleasure in. So, don't sweat 3rd year so bad - most of us were/are in the exact same boat.
 
Hmmm I like the previous idea of going to the clerkship director even better. I'm sure he/she would be willing to send an email - the grade will probably stand a better chance of being changed if u have someone like that asking on your behalf.

i'm a 2nd year (studying for boards right now) - I'm dreading 3rd year. Doesn't sound fair.
 
If you plan on going into FP then it might be worth trying to get the high pass changed to honors... when it comes time to apply for residencies, you really ought to have gotten honors in the rotation you're planning on going into... it's not an absolute necessity, but it is certainly advisable.

But if you're going into something else, it's probably not worth the potential (however small) negatives.
 
Same scenario with me and general surgery, I've got an 89 overall. But, I'm not gonna beg for the extra 0.5 (4.5/5 instead of 5/5 ... ended up with 44.5/50 in my clinical eval). I decided to just roll with it. What do you guys think?
 
WELCOME TO 3RD YEAR.

Get used to disappointing grades despite glowing clinical reviews and evaluation comments that use words like "outstanding" and "top student." It sucks and it's not fair, but that's the way it goes. The only way to make certain that you honor everything is to throw your fellow students under the bus so that you consistently look good. If you're unwilling to compromise your morals and stab other students in the back, focus on the shelf exams. They are more crucial to your grade than anything.

This continues into fourth year when doing interviews. Check out the Match thread! :eek: And probably into residency - and its not all out of spite or malice. When learning under a hierarchy, the people above you are going to help train/ evaluate you and since they are human, this will have a subjective component to it.

At a point you accept that it is all somewhat random, and just do the best you can on your end.

To the OP, if it were me, I'd let it slide and just get the LOR; but some of the suggestions posted - like mentioning it while asking for the LOR - sound low risk/ high reward enough to try.

Best of luck
 
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