4.0/40 rejected everywhere :o( Not sure what to do?

Med School Insiders
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members do not see this ad.
flowerpower123 said:
I don't think so. He was the main person I worked with.
I'm not sure what to do. I fear this may have residual consequences for my future app.
Click to expand...

Were their any other people in the lab? I suppose if you have no one else to write one, just don't include a letter from a researcher. But that would look odd. Usually labs have several people.
 
boxer0011 said:
Were their any other people in the lab? I suppose if you have no one else to write one, just don't include a letter from a researcher. But that would look odd. Usually labs have several people.
Click to expand...
Well there was another PRA that I spent a lot of time with, and there were a few med and post-doc students, but we rarely interacted so I wouldn't think they'd be able to say much about me.
 
Last edited:
flowerpower123 said:
Well there was another PRA that I spent a lot of time with, and there were a few med and post-doc students, but we rarely interacted so I wouldn't think they'd be able to say much about me.
Click to expand...

At first I was thinking that maybe the PI is jealous of med students or something, because some PhD's are that way. But that is not the case as their were med students as well.

Most likely you did not perform too well. The PI is obviously qualified and has a number of medical school students and PhD's working under him, so I suspect he knows what good performance is.

If I were you, I would not get any letter from the lab. Why do you think he would write badly about you? Is he jealous? Vindictive? Or just being honest? If he is honest, what if the other person is honest as well? Sometimes you are unlucky and get a really strict person. That seemed to happen to you.

MCAT, grades, and EC's can be overcome, but if medical schools even suspect you are a liar, or have personality difficulties with others--unfortunately, that is automatically rejection.

So you have to be very careful. You have a poor chance at the ones you already applied to because they suspect you lied. If you mess up this third round, your chances are really limited.

You have very good stats, so, you can easily get in without a letter from research. Just focus on other stuff besides research because, obviously, if you emphasize research it would look suspicious. Good luck!
 
boxer0011 said:
At first I was thinking that maybe the PI is jealous of med students or something, because some PhD's are that way. But that is not the case as their were med students as well.

Most likely you did not perform too well. The PI is obviously qualified and has a number of medical school students and PhD's working under him, so I suspect he knows what good performance is.

If I were you, I would not get any letter from the lab. Why do you think he would write badly about you? Is he jealous? Vindictive? Or just being honest? If he is honest, what if the other person is honest as well? Sometimes you are unlucky and get a really strict person. That seemed to happen to you.

MCAT, grades, and EC's can be overcome, but if medical schools even suspect you are a liar, or have personality difficulties with others--unfortunately, that is automatically rejection.

So you have to be very careful. You have a poor chance at the ones you already applied to because they suspect you lied. If you mess up this third round, your chances are really limited.

You have very good stats, so, you can easily get in without a letter from research. Just focus on other stuff besides research because, obviously, if you emphasize research it would look suspicious. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Dude, what are you talking about? Have you even applied to medical school yet? Most of the stuff you're saying makes absolutely no sense and is completely untrue.

Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. It does nothing but confuse people and dilute useful information.
 
boxer0011 said:
I stand corrected!

What surprises me most about the reject in question is that she is female. Females accepted, on average, have significantly lower MCAT scores and GPA's. I bet that she is one of a very, very few number of females scoring 40 or above (as MCAT correlates quite strongly with IQ). It really should be a shoo-in.

It is like a black who gets rejected from the top-10 with a 3.7 and 36 MCAT. It's really is a once-in-a-decade thing, which is why everyone her is so flummoxed.
Click to expand...
"a black"
 
boxer0011 said:
I stand corrected!

What surprises me most about the reject in question is that she is female. Females accepted, on average, have significantly lower MCAT scores and GPA's. I bet that she is one of a very, very few number of females scoring 40 or above (as MCAT correlates quite strongly with IQ). It really should be a shoo-in.

It is like a black who gets rejected from the top-10 with a 3.7 and 36 MCAT. It's really is a once-in-a-decade thing, which is why everyone her is so flummoxed.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're the type of person who gets mad when someone says you're prejudiced or biased, too. I like how you come from the assumption, "So, we take it as a given that women and minorities aren't as smart as me, I mean, that's just common sense..."
 
Salt Salt said:
I was wondering why nobody had commented on that yet lol
Click to expand...
Yeah, got distracted by the sweeping generalization just before it that women have lower IQs than men...presented in passing as an 'oh, everybody knows that' sort of thing. Sorry, I can only handle so many incorrect statements and blatantly bigoted assumptions before I get distracted and start missing the rest.
 
For next year, do you think there is anything I can do? He said he "inadvertently" wrote it.
I just don't want all these places to immediately throw out my application next time.
 
If I had noticed something like that on an app, I would brought this to the attention to my fellow interviewers and we would have gently probed to see if you told the truth or not about your patient contact/research experience in this regard.

Did you get any questions in the interviews about this?????

flowerpower123 said:
I think I might have found a red-flag?
I've been trying to do some detective work, as even though I'm sure I have many areas to work on, I thought I'd have a bit more success...

I spoke with my PI and he said he inadvertantly put I had "no patient interaction" in his letter when he meant "no in-patient interaction"
I don't know if it made a difference, but in my amcas as well as in all of my interviews I rambled on and on about screening patients, conducting patient interviews, and helping conduct patient studies...
This description juxtaposed with "no-patient interaction" seems like I fabricated my entire research experience.
Maybe this had nothing to do with it...but I can't imagine it looked good.
Click to expand...
 
For starters, next year you get a LOR from someone else.
Expand your target list as well.


flowerpower123 said:
For next year, do you think there is anything I can do? He said he "inadvertently" wrote it.
I just don't want all these places to immediately throw out my application next time.
Click to expand...

Now, was this something that he wrote, or the schools wrote back to him? If the former, where would they get that idea??????
I think mystery is solved now.

I'm very concered actually...
He just sent me an e-mail that school's likely thought I was too weak and couldn't handle medical school.
I had no idea he felt this way about me...
 
boxer0011 said:
Why? I was the first to identify the issue of the letter, from my understanding.
Click to expand...
Because you seem to feel the need to include a bunch of baseless assertions and bizarrely bigoted starting assumptions when you talk.

OP basically identified their own problem with the letter - you happened to be online when it was posted and commented first, sure. So...kudos for that, I suppose, but in the meantime you made a bunch of misleading posts about how the majority of adcoms work, stated that females are dumber than males, and made passing remarks about 'a black' which were simply uncalled for. I think this thread could have easily waited the extra time for someone else to 'identify' the new information that OP posted in exchange for not having to hear the other crap you spewed along with your 'insight'.
 
mehc012 said:
Because you seem to feel the need to include a bunch of baseless assertions and bizarrely bigoted starting assumptions when you talk.

OP basically identified their own problem with the letter - you happened to be online when it was posted and commented first, sure. So...kudos for that, I suppose, but in the meantime you made a bunch of misleading posts about how the majority of adcoms work, stated that females are dumber than males, and made passing remarks about 'a black' which were simply uncalled for. I think this thread could have easily waited the extra time for someone else to 'identify' the new information that OP posted in exchange for not having to hear the other crap you spewed along with your 'insight'.
Click to expand...

I pointed out that the PI wrote a negative comment that he could have left out. After that the OP looked into the matter and discovered more negative views. Could the OP have found it out without me? I don't know.
 
boxer0011 said:
I pointed out that the PI wrote a negative comment that he could have left out. After that the OP looked into the matter and discovered more negative views. Could the OP have found it out without me? I don't know.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you were not the first person to propose looking into the LOR writers and what they may have said. Those things just take time to actually, you know, do.
 
boxer0011 said:
I pointed out that the PI wrote a negative comment that he could have left out. After that the OP looked into the matter and discovered more negative views. Could the OP have found it out without me? I don't know.
Click to expand...
Can't tell if you're playing dumb or are offering up some pleasantly ironic counter evidence to your claims about women's inferior intelligence.
 
Goro said:
Did you get any questions in the interviews about this?????
Click to expand...
Yes, one of my interviewers specifically asked me to clarify my involvement, which I thought was odd at the time but I just assumed he wanted to make sure he understood what I was doing. Looking back on it now, I'm sure it looked terrible for me to ramble on and on about how the highlight of my research experience was interacting with participants when my letter said I had no patient contact. I don't have any idea why he would put this in his letter as a) it is not true and b) it is not helpful.
He said he could send an "correction" notice, which I guess would be helpful for next year. I just don't understand why he would have written this in the first place.
 
I smell a rat. Him, not you, flower.

I strongly urge you to get a new LOR from someone else next year and if someone asks why you didn't get a LOR from your PI, tell the truth and state that you couldn't rely on him to write you a good LOR. better still, state that you had a better rapport with your other LOR writers.


flowerpower123 said:
This is something he wrote to me. I sent him an e-mail saying I had been rejected and this was his suggestion as to why.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
I smell a rat. Him, not you, flower.

I strongly urge you to get a new LOR from someone else next year and if someone asks why you didn't get a LOR from your PI, tell the truth and state that you couldn't rely on him to write you a good LOR. better still, state that you had a better rapport with your other LOR writers.
Click to expand...

Thanks Goro.
I appreciate it.
Do you happen to know how this might influence schools next year?
e.g., Would schools that I applied to this year look back and see that my previous LOR had painted a negative picture of me?
 
Only the schools you applied to. That's why we suggest widening your net.

flowerpower123 said:
Thanks Goro.
I appreciate it.
Do you happen to know how this might influence schools next year?
e.g., Would schools that I applied to this year look back and see that my previous LOR had painted a negative picture of me?
Click to expand...
 
Would it be helpful for him to send a correction letter to schools?
Even though its too late for this year, at least they'd know I wasn't lying.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
JFC.

This guy already torpedoed your application once. And told you directly that he thinks you are too "weak" to be a doctor.

Do not encourage or allow him to have any further contact with medical schools.

It's stunning that you have to be told this.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry. I just thought if schools thought I'd fabricated my involvement (which to me is most damning) it would help to clarify, regardless of his personal views.
 
Truly sorry to hear about the letter...all that being said is anyone surprised she had 3 interviews at top schools despite the letter issue? I can't imagine Harvard inviting her for an interview if they thought she might be a liar. Maybe they only noticed afterward.

I'm less concerned about the no in-patient vs patient aspect than I am about his overall negative opinion of you/his demeanor....but again 3 solid interview invites make me think more schools may have resulted in an acceptance but you never know.

While in the end it doesn't matter, getting an interview from Harvard is generally not a marker for a "weak app". Apply without his letter (maybe try with a letter from a new lab you start at that's more clinically related, and say it's more representative of your performance?)

Good luck next cycle and I truly am sorry that you are in this situation.
 
resiroth said:
Maybe they only noticed afterward.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, but I think this is probably the case. My amcas description definitely mentioned my patient contact and my in-interview description highlighted my patient contact...so that alongside "no patient contact" probably looked rediculous.
Thanks for your encouragement. I just hope I've not been blackballed from future consideration.
 
flowerpower123 said:
I'm not sure, but I think this is probably the case. My amcas description definitely mentioned my patient contact and my in-interview description highlighted my patient contact...so that alongside "no patient contact" probably looked rediculous.
Thanks for your encouragement. I just hope I've not been blackballed from future consideration.
Click to expand...
To be honest so many medical schools are great and if you were blacklisted at 15 it wouldn't be the end of the world. Fit is so important and can't truly be properly assessed unless you've interviewed there.

All this being said, I'm not sure what the post interview reject rate is at this schools but it can be like 70%. So if you loved a school that you interviewed at apply again imo. Worst case you wasted 100 bucks which is sadly not much in the med school app scheme of things.

Good luck!
 
Is the person who wrote the poor rec. also your pre med advisor?

Regardless, the harsh reality is that you should reflect on why this person doesn't think you'd make a good make a good physician. S/he has known you in a professional setting. Did s/he know you well enough to evaluate important characteristics for a career medicine?

I assume this person is not also your de facto pre med advisor. If s/he is, then taka the critique even more seriously.

Lastly, consider whether some of the critiques leveled at your before were accurate or not. Only you will know. And make sure your personal statement and activities tells your story and motivations. Though you applied to all top schools, I think you were expecting more interviews than you received, meaning many fewer screeners found your application compelling.

You may have found a red flag, but as I stated before, it could be one thing, it could be many little things, or a combination.
 
maccu5000 said:
Regardless, the harsh reality is that you should reflect on why this person doesn't think you'd make a good make a good physician. S/he has known you in a professional setting. Did s/he know you well enough to evaluate important characteristics for a career medicine?

I assume this person is not also your de facto pre med advisor. If s/he is, then taka the critique even more seriously.
Click to expand...

Equally possible that the LOR writer is a jerk whose critique should be ignored. (Who agrees to write a letter of recommendation for someone s/he does not actually recommend? Could have simply said, "I'm probably not the one to ask for this.")
 
Is it possible for the LOR writer to send in a letter/e-mail/update with the correction even though you were already rejected? Just so it can show up on your file for this previous cycle, confirming you're not a liar, so that you can reapply to those schools next cycle WITHOUT his LOR...

I know it's a stretch, but is it worth a try?
 
marauderette said:
Is it possible for the LOR writer to send in a letter/e-mail/update with the correction even though you were already rejected? Just so it can show up on your file for this previous cycle, confirming you're not a liar, so that you can reapply to those schools next cycle WITHOUT his LOR...

I know it's a stretch, but is it worth a try?
Click to expand...
This is what I was hoping for as well. I feel like there's a certain responsibility to present the objective data correctly, regardless of one's subjective opinion.
 
marauderette said:
Is it possible for the LOR writer to send in a letter/e-mail/update with the correction even though you were already rejected? Just so it can show up on your file for this previous cycle, confirming you're not a liar, so that you can reapply to those schools next cycle WITHOUT his LOR...

I know it's a stretch, but is it worth a try?
Click to expand...
It's been asked, thus far the response has been an emphatic 'no', but only one person responded (albeit one I would trust the judgement of.)
flowerpower123 said:
Would it be helpful for him to send a correction letter to schools?
Even though its too late for this year, at least they'd know I wasn't lying.
Click to expand...
SouthernSurgeon said:
JFC.

This guy already torpedoed your application once. And told you directly that he thinks you are too "weak" to be a doctor.

Do not encourage or allow him to have any further contact with medical schools.

It's stunning that you have to be told this.
Click to expand...
 
marauderette said:
Is it possible for the LOR writer to send in a letter/e-mail/update with the correction even though you were already rejected? Just so it can show up on your file for this previous cycle, confirming you're not a liar, so that you can reapply to those schools next cycle WITHOUT his LOR...
Click to expand...
It seems like OP just needs to cut her losses on this one and follow @Goro 's advice to get a new LOR writer next time around. There would be no reason to trust this person to do anything constructive on the OP's behalf.
 
it'sabeautifullife said:
Equally possible that the LOR writer is a jerk whose critique should be ignored. (Who agrees to write a letter of recommendation for someone s/he does not actually recommend? Could have simply said, "I'm probably not the one to ask for this.")
Click to expand...
That's exactly what you say.
If all this is correct, this guy cost you a year of attending income with his douchebaggery. People pay a visit to Luca Brasi for a hell of a lot less than that. Unbelievable.
You don't want anything to do with that guy ever again, who knows what he really wrote or the tone of his letter. Keep looking though, there may be more holding you back.
 
flowerpower123 said:
This is what I was hoping for as well. I feel like there's a certain responsibility to present the objective data correctly, regardless of one's subjective opinion.
Click to expand...

You don't plan to reapply to any of the schools on your previous list do you?
 
plumazul said:
You don't plan to reapply to any of the schools on your previous list do you?
Click to expand...
I was hoping to. I will certainly include new schools as well, but I thought I could at least try.
I recognize this may be stubborn and that a positive outcome may be unlikely, but it feels better than just giving up.
 
flowerpower123 said:
I was hoping to. I will certainly include new schools as well, but I thought I could at least try.
I recognize this may be stubborn and that a positive outcome may be unlikely, but it feels better than just giving up.
Click to expand...

I'm confused. What would you be "giving up", by selecting schools more in line with your situation? You received a lot of good advice about your choice of schools. I hope you don't just disregard it.
 
plumazul said:
I'm confused. What would you be "giving up", by selecting schools more in line with your situation? You received a lot of good advice about your choice of schools. I hope you don't just disregard it.
Click to expand...
Definitely not. I really appreciate all the advice and I will definitely expand my school list, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up on all the schools I've previously applied to; it's worth it to me to at least make an attempt.
 
There's no harm in reapplying to some of the same schools knowing that you don't have as good a shot there.

I'd definitely get new letter, if not a couple more, and make sure that the writers answer yes when you ask if they can write you a strong letter.

Also, how are you going to improve the rest of your application? Are you planning on getting a job or such? Might be a good plan to work as a scribe or research coordinator or such.
 
Yup, I'd agree with that. Those schools still gave the OP an interview in spite of the letter so they definitely saw something in her app, no?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
IA not on AMCAS, what to do now?
Replies
5
Views
305
awycecujo
A
I
BS/MD program forcing students into satellite campus - not sure what to do?
Replies
6
Views
1K
Med Ed
Med Ed
B
Not Sure If I'm Rushing Things
Replies
0
Views
308
BeGladNonTrad
B
S
MCAT Retake disaster, not sure where to go from here
Replies
22
Views
2K
Dr.Freedman MedEdits
Dr.Freedman MedEdits
P
What to do before II?
Replies
4
Views
987
sardinetoast
S
Top