4.0/527, but rejected everywhere. Where did I go wrong?

[deleted1161197]

Hello everyone, at this time I unfortunately have received my last rejection and will have to reapply next cycle. Please let me know what I should do to improve, I will also be reading @Goro guide to reinvention.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
   1. 4.0 for cGPA and sGPA
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
   1. 527 (132/132/132/131)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
   1. CA
4. Ethnicity and/or race
   1. Asian, ORM
5. Undergraduate institution or category
   1. UCLA
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   1. 200 hours patient sitter (walked elderly patients around, sat with patients who had dementia, etc)
7. Research experience and productivity
   1. 1500 hours working in microbiology lab, 2 posters (1 at undergrad, 1 at national conference), presenting author
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
   1. 25 hours, my pediatrician
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   1. 100 hours Food Bank
   2. 150 hours Big Brother Big Sister
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    1. President of premedical association on campus
    2. Founded a cultural non-profit that I was involved in for 3 years in undergrad
    3. Microbiology TA
11. Relevant honors or awards
    1. None besides Dean's list
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

School List:
Harvard
Yale
NYU
WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
Columbia
Northwestern
Mount Sinai
Mayo
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Stanford
UPenn
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC Keck

Interviews at NYU, UPenn, UCLA, Hopkins, all ended with rejection.

I have no IA's, arrests, convictions, etc. I did take Gen Chem II at community college though over the summer, because I forgot to sign up for it freshmen year, maybe that played a factor at these T20 schools? Also, my clinical and non-clinical seem pretty weak now that I reflect back on those.

I will be pursuing a Fulbright ETA in Europe this next year, which I hope will bolster my application. This has been extremely humbling (and disappointing) to say the least, please let me know what red flags you see on my app!

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[toastedbutter]

You were going up against applicants at those schools with several hundred if not thousands of clinical hours. Plus, I'm not sure exactly from your activity description, but was that in a hospital environment? Did you see physicians interacting with patients at any point? Especially for it being your sole clinical experience, it's not very strong. I would put time into finding another clinical activity ASAP.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

When did you find out you got the ETA position for next year? Would you really have given that up to go to medical school?

Describe your practice for interviews. When did you start?

Please let me know what I should do to improve, I will also be reading @Goro guide to reinvention.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
   1. 4.0 for cGPA and sGPA
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
   1. 527 (132/132/132/131)

Let's start from the top. With such an outstanding set of metrics, your experiences are lackluster. Your clinical experience hours are minimal, and I don't understand what experiences anchor your calling in Health Care.

Your nonclinical experience is similarly lackluster with barely the minimum hours to avoid elimination from screening. The problem is that for file deliberation, you really need to show consistent passion that goes along with your metrics.

Your leadership looks fine, but I don't see impact in your description. I suspect that for the name brands that decided not to interview you, they would think that your leadership experience also did not result in an impactful improvement in the community. As a result, it's really hard to see any mission or cultural fit with the schools on your list. You likely had a second chance at your interviews and did not finish the deal.

Enjoy your Fulbright experience and apply after you are done. Take time outside of a college campus to really serve the community and get significant clinical experience.

 

[please.let.me.in]

When did you apply in the cycle? Early, or late? Since you got a few interviews, I assume you probably submitted at a reasonable time, but if you applied pretty late that could be a factor.

 

[deleted1161197]

When did you find out you got the ETA position for next year? Would you really have given that up to go to medical school?

Describe your practice for interviews. When did you start?

You already sound entitled and misinformed. Almost troll like if you think your app needs reinvention. Maybe this came across in your application.

Let's start from the top. With such an outstanding set of metrics, your experiences are amazingly lackluster. Your clinical experience hours are extremely minimal, and I don't understand what experiences anchor your calling in Health Care.

Your nonclinical experience is similarly lackluster with barely the minimum hours to avoid elimination from screening. The problem is that for file deliberation, you really need to show consistent passion that goes along with your metrics.

Your leadership looks fine, but I don't see impact in your description. I suspect that for the name brands that decided not to interview you, they would think that your leadership experience also did not result in an impactful improvement in the community. As a result, it's really hard to see any mission or cultural fit with the schools on your list. You likely had a second chance at your interviews and did not finish the deal.

Enjoy your Fulbright experience and apply after you are done. Take time outside of a college campus to really serve the community and get significant clinical experience.

Thank you for the detailed response, I apologize as I really didn't mean to come off as entitled.

I found out I got the ETA positions a couple months ago, as my plan was to update schools about it if I were to be waitlisted (unfortunately this never happened). I guess my motivation for it was to leverage it in medical school applications, which was honestly really stupid.

I practiced interviews only a couple times with my health advisors office (another huge mistake) and a couple times with my friends in medical school. Interview practice was done in November and December and I was told I wasn't terrible but did struggle to articulate a strong reason for why medicine.

Your critiques are definitely all correct, I spent WAY too much time in undergrad obsessing over perfect grades and MCAT, and neglected to focus on more important parts of my application.

 

[deleted1161197]

You were going up against applicants at those schools with several hundred if not thousands of clinical hours. Plus, I'm not sure exactly from your activity description, but was that in a hospital environment? Did you see physicians interacting with patients at any point? Especially for it being your sole clinical experience, it's not very strong. I would put time into finding another clinical activity ASAP.

It was done in a clinical setting yup, I would sit in the patient's room with them. Definitely am trying to bolster this with another type of clinical activity!

 

[deleted1161197]

When did you apply in the cycle? Early, or late? Since you got a few interviews, I assume you probably submitted at a reasonable time, but if you applied pretty late that could be a factor.

I applied in early June, so pretty early

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Your critiques are definitely all correct, I spent WAY too much time in undergrad obsessing over perfect grades and MCAT, and neglected to focus on more important parts of my application.

It's all important. Where your hours are, there your passion lies. You need more of those hours in your clinical and nonclinical experiences, and you can keep doing what you are doing... but tell us why beyond "I need it for my medical school application." (You didn't say it, but just making a point.)

The application process is as much about your priorities as it is about your preparation. For example, would a growth year doing clinical experience and community service benefit you more for an application than a Fulbright ETA? I think so (but check the consensus).

 

[deleted1161197]

It's all important. Where your hours are, there your passion lies. You need more of those hours in your clinical and nonclinical experiences, and you can keep doing what you are doing... but tell us why beyond "I need it for my medical school application." (You didn't say it, but just making a point.)

The application process is as much about your priorities as it is about your preparation. For example, would a growth year doing clinical experience and community service benefit you more for an application than a Fulbright ETA? I think so (but check the consensus).

Yea, honestly I'm debating whether to do it or to focus on those two categories as you said. I bought into way much hype and self-hype first time around, as I thought my stats would carry me to an acceptance.

That said, if I don't pursue Fulbright, could I still list it on my application even if I don't really have much to say about the experience itself?

 

[MrPuff]

JMO, but you have great stats and even though you received four interviews I would have expected more. I'm thinking there is something in your personal statement or secondaries that might be off-putting. Mr.Smile12 suggested perhaps you could have given AdComs a sense of entitlement. If so, that's a hard pass. With some introspection, this should be fixable - if, in fact, it's the case. Whatever the case may be, the four med schools that interviewed you probably got in-person confirmation/clarification on what you wrote.

Best of luck in the next cycle!

 

[theoceanman]

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
   1. 4.0 for cGPA and sGPA
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
   1. 527 (132/132/132/131)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
   1. CA
4. Ethnicity and/or race
   1. Asian, ORM
5. Undergraduate institution or category
   1. UCLA
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   
   1. 200 hours patient sitter (walked elderly patients around, sat with patients who had dementia, etc)
7. Research experience and productivity
   1. 1500 hours working in microbiology lab, 2 posters (1 at undergrad, 1 at national conference), presenting author
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
   
   1. 25 hours, my pediatrician
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   
   1. 100 hours Food Bank
   2. 150 hours Big Brother Big Sister
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    1. President of premedical association on campus
    2. Founded a cultural non-profit that I was involved in for 3 years in undergrad
    3. Microbiology TA
11. Relevant honors or awards
    1. None besides Dean's list
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

Here's some things that I highlighted on your application that raise some concerns, especially at the big-name schools you applied to:
1. It's very clear that your shadowing hours are extremely low, compared to most applicants to those schools. Having 25 hours shadowing a pediatrician doesn't mean much as you're not going to be able to take out a meaningful experience from that; you might have seen a few wart removals or general check-ups, but the amount of hours is not sufficient enough to showcase why you chose medicine. Your current application seems more tailored towards a PhD rather than a medical degree due to your emphasis on teaching and research.

2. Your clinical experiences do not match up with the ones you shadowed or your non-clinical volunteering: you went from pediatrics and children-based focus to the elderly population all of a sudden. This may show to the admissions committee that you just did these activities to fill in hours rather than do something you are passionate about, even though you may have been passionate about it at the time. I would aim to get clinical experience in the pediatrics field, such as volunteering in the pediatrics unit of your hospital, etc. or wherever you end up.

3. Your non-clinical volunteering seems fine, but I highlighted it to showcase the overall "theme" and mission-fit of your application as some of the schools you applied to place emphasis on specific mission-fits. Seemingly having little to no experience in serving the rural or underserved communities or populations around UCLA, especially given LA's prominent underserved community of migrant workers and those of socioeconomic hardship, raises concerns as well most likely to the medical schools you applied to. Medicine is about contributing to the community around you and medical schools want to see that you are someone who is willing to do that in the future as a physician.


Overall, as many have stated above, your stats are stellar, in fact, that alone is qualifying you for most schools in the nation with no problem, but it's the character behind those stats that really make it or break it for individuals. People with lower stats who have made significant impacts on their community and those around them will be chosen because realistically, someone with a 516+ and amazing EC's is someone better fit to be a physician than someone with a 520+ and barely fulfilling hour requirement cutoffs or screenings for most medical schools. Take the Fulbright experience and make an effort to serve your community and make a lasting impact that makes you reaffirm that medicine is right for you. Then, you will be able to reapply and get into one of the schools on your current list for sure, cheers!

 

[deleted1161197]

Here's some things that I highlighted on your application that raise some concerns, especially at the big-name schools you applied to:
1. It's very clear that your shadowing hours are extremely low, compared to most applicants to those schools. Having 25 hours shadowing a pediatrician doesn't mean much as you're not going to be able to take out a meaningful experience from that; you might have seen a few wart removals or general check-ups, but the amount of hours is not sufficient enough to showcase why you chose medicine. Your current application seems more tailored towards a PhD rather than a medical degree due to your emphasis on teaching and research.

2. Your clinical experiences do not match up with the ones you shadowed or your non-clinical volunteering: you went from pediatrics and children-based focus to the elderly population all of a sudden. This may show to the admissions committee that you just did these activities to fill in hours rather than do something you are passionate about, even though you may have been passionate about it at the time. I would aim to get clinical experience in the pediatrics field, such as volunteering in the pediatrics unit of your hospital, etc. or wherever you end up.

3. Your non-clinical volunteering seems fine, but I highlighted it to showcase the overall "theme" and mission-fit of your application as some of the schools you applied to place emphasis on specific mission-fits. Seemingly having little to no experience in serving the rural or underserved communities or populations around UCLA, especially given LA's prominent underserved community of migrant workers and those of socioeconomic hardship, raises concerns as well most likely to the medical schools you applied to. Medicine is about contributing to the community around you and medical schools want to see that you are someone who is willing to do that in the future as a physician.


Overall, as many have stated above, your stats are stellar, in fact, that alone is qualifying you for most schools in the nation with no problem, but it's the character behind those stats that really make it or break it for individuals. People with lower stats who have made significant impacts on their community and those around them will be chosen because realistically, someone with a 516+ and amazing EC's is someone better fit to be a physician than someone with a 520+ and barely fulfilling hour requirement cutoffs or screenings for most medical schools. Take the Fulbright experience and make an effort to serve your community and make a lasting impact that makes you reaffirm that medicine is right for you. Then, you will be able to reapply and get into one of the schools on your current list for sure, cheers!

Thank you for the great advice, I think it would be difficult to increase clinical (and target it towards younger populations), do you think it would be advisable to forgo Fulbright and just focus on clinical?

 

[toastedbutter]

Thank you for the great advice, I think it would be difficult to increase clinical (and target it towards younger populations), do you think it would be advisable to forgo Fulbright and just focus on clinical?

Yes. In the grand scheme of things if you're set on medicine having substantially more clinical experience will move the needle much further than having Fullbright but low clinical.

 

[Goro]

Hello everyone, at this time I unfortunately have received my last rejection and will have to reapply next cycle. Please let me know what I should do to improve, I will also be reading @Goro guide to reinvention.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
   1. 4.0 for cGPA and sGPA
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
   1. 527 (132/132/132/131)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
   1. CA
4. Ethnicity and/or race
   1. Asian, ORM
5. Undergraduate institution or category
   1. UCLA
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   1. 200 hours patient sitter (walked elderly patients around, sat with patients who had dementia, etc)
7. Research experience and productivity
   1. 1500 hours working in microbiology lab, 2 posters (1 at undergrad, 1 at national conference), presenting author
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
   1. 25 hours, my pediatrician
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   1. 100 hours Food Bank
   2. 150 hours Big Brother Big Sister
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    1. President of premedical association on campus
    2. Founded a cultural non-profit that I was involved in for 3 years in undergrad
    3. Microbiology TA
11. Relevant honors or awards
    1. None besides Dean's list
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

School List:
Harvard
Yale
NYU
WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
Columbia
Northwestern
Mount Sinai
Mayo
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Stanford
UPenn
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC Keck

Interviews at NYU, UPenn, UCLA, Hopkins, all ended with rejection.

I have no IA's, arrests, convictions, etc. I did take Gen Chem II at community college though over the summer, because I forgot to sign up for it freshmen year, maybe that played a factor at these T20 schools? Also, my clinical and non-clinical seem pretty weak now that I reflect back on those.

I will be pursuing a Fulbright ETA in Europe this next year, which I hope will bolster my application. This has been extremely humbling (and disappointing) to say the least, please let me know what red flags you see on my app!

Work on interview skills

Engage in service to others less fortunate than yourself

 

[theoceanman]

Thank you for the great advice, I think it would be difficult to increase clinical (and target it towards younger populations), do you think it would be advisable to forgo Fulbright and just focus on clinical?

Yes, unless you're going for a PhD or some teaching/research-affiliated doctorate program and you want to pursue medicine, increasing your clinical experience as well as your community service experience during your gap year will help you tremendously.

 

[Faha]

Your low shadowing hours hurt but you still received 4 interviews. The fact that those 4 interviews turned into rejections rather than waitlists indicates that your interviews skills were not good. When you apply again add more mid tier schools such as Hofstra, Einstein, Rochester,Cincinnati, Kaiser.

 

[deleted1141182]

I think everyone here is being a little harsh. Sorry for your rough cycle OP, it happens. Being a California ORM definitely didn't help either.

I just wanted to input that your school list could have been your downfall. You applied to basically all top schools + Irvine and Davis. If you applied to places like Hofstra or USF I think you would have had a good shot at getting in. Who did you get to review your writing?

 

[Dahlias]

I think everyone here is being a little harsh. Sorry for your rough cycle OP, it happens. Being a California ORM definitely didn't help either.

I just wanted to input that your school list could have been your downfall. You applied to basically all top schools + Irvine and Davis. If you applied to places like Hofstra or USF I think you would have had a good shot at getting in. Who did you get to review your writing?

totally agree, I myself am a California ORM also, and this cycle is defintely a humble experience. My stat is less stellar than the OP (3.94 gpa, 521 MCAT) and I did manage to get an A with 5 WL thanks to my school list, I applied to lots of low and mid tier schools.

 

[Opuntia]

Just want to throw in my two cents here. I spent a few years abroad while & after doing a Fulbright research grant in Europe. I highly recommend taking the opportunity (if it sounds fun to you). I had the time of my life. Not everything in life needs to be preparing you for medicine. Personal growth and reflection is important too. Feel free to DM me about Fulbright if you have specific questions.

Also, you did amazing during undergrad. Sorry this cycle didn't work out. You seem like a great candidate who will do great things in the future.

 

[deleted1161197]

Just want to throw in my two cents here. I spent a few years abroad while & after doing a Fulbright research grant in Europe. I highly recommend taking the opportunity (if it sounds fun to you). I had the time of my life. Not everything in life needs to be preparing you for medicine. Personal growth and reflection is important too. Feel free to DM me about Fulbright if you have specific questions.

Also, you did amazing during undergrad. Sorry this cycle didn't work out. You seem like a great candidate who will do great things in the future.

Thank you for the kind words. Just a quick question about Fulbright, do you think it would be feasible to be in Europe while still applying to medical school? That's kind of the plan for me right now, but I'm worried about time difference and stuff like that.

 

[deleted1161197]

I think everyone here is being a little harsh. Sorry for your rough cycle OP, it happens. Being a California ORM definitely didn't help either.

I just wanted to input that your school list could have been your downfall. You applied to basically all top schools + Irvine and Davis. If you applied to places like Hofstra or USF I think you would have had a good shot at getting in. Who did you get to review your writing?

Hi, thank you for the kind words and feedback. I had some upperclassmen friends who are in medical school now review my writing, as well as my health advising office from undergrad. I'll probably use SDN as well this time around, what do you think?

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hello everyone, at this time I unfortunately have received my last rejection and will have to reapply next cycle. Please let me know what I should do to improve, I will also be reading @Goro guide to reinvention.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
   1. 4.0 for cGPA and sGPA
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
   1. 527 (132/132/132/131)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
   1. CA
4. Ethnicity and/or race
   1. Asian, ORM
5. Undergraduate institution or category
   1. UCLA
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   1. 200 hours patient sitter (walked elderly patients around, sat with patients who had dementia, etc)
7. Research experience and productivity
   1. 1500 hours working in microbiology lab, 2 posters (1 at undergrad, 1 at national conference), presenting author
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
   1. 25 hours, my pediatrician
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   1. 100 hours Food Bank
   2. 150 hours Big Brother Big Sister
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    1. President of premedical association on campus
    2. Founded a cultural non-profit that I was involved in for 3 years in undergrad
    3. Microbiology TA
11. Relevant honors or awards
    1. None besides Dean's list
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

School List:
Harvard
Yale
NYU
WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
Columbia
Northwestern
Mount Sinai
Mayo
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Stanford
UPenn
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC Keck

Interviews at NYU, UPenn, UCLA, Hopkins, all ended with rejection.

I have no IA's, arrests, convictions, etc. I did take Gen Chem II at community college though over the summer, because I forgot to sign up for it freshmen year, maybe that played a factor at these T20 schools? Also, my clinical and non-clinical seem pretty weak now that I reflect back on those.

I will be pursuing a Fulbright ETA in Europe this next year, which I hope will bolster my application. This has been extremely humbling (and disappointing) to say the least, please let me know what red flags you see on my app!

There is being qualified and competitive and demonstrating that you are qualified and competitive.

In terms of your qualifications, your academic stats are outstanding and competitive at the programs you applied to. However, as others have pointed out, your clinical exposure/shadowing is minimal and your non-clinical volunteering seems more like box checking, although how you presented it in your apps could make me change my mind on that one.

IOW, you need more clinical exposure and service to the disadvantaged.

Should you forgo the Fulbright ETA experience? I'd hate to advise that because it will be such a growth experience for you. If there is anyway to do the Fulbright and expand your clinical exposure and community service, that would be my recommendation. I recommend you consider an additional gap year, if your MCAT won't expire.

Finally, do have someone do a med school rejection review before you reapply and if invited to interview get med school interview coaching or mock interviews. If you made mistakes in presenting your qualifications, you don't want to make them again. Finally, finally consider applying to a few less competitive medical schools in addition to those you have applied to in the past. You applied to among the toughest.

 

[deleted1161197]

There is being qualified and competitive and demonstrating that you are qualified and competitive.

In terms of your qualifications, your academic stats are outstanding and competitive at the programs you applied to. However, as others have pointed out, your clinical exposure/shadowing is minimal and your non-clinical volunteering seems more like box checking, although how you presented it in your apps could make me change my mind on that one.

IOW, you need more clinical exposure and service to the disadvantaged.

Should you forgo the Fulbright ETA experience? I'd hate to advise that because it will be such a growth experience for you. If there is anyway to do the Fulbright and expand your clinical exposure and community service, that would be my recommendation. I recommend you consider an additional gap year, if your MCAT won't expire.

Finally, do have someone do a med school rejection review before you reapply and if invited to interview get med school interview coaching or mock interviews. If you made mistakes in presenting your qualifications, you don't want to make them again. Finally, finally consider applying to a few less competitive medical schools in addition to those you have applied to in the past. You applied to among the toughest.

Really appreciate the thoughtful response, I will definitely try to reach out and ask if I could do volunteering while on Fulbright.

Can I ask though, do medical schools not value clinical/community volunteering done abroad as much? I hear that a lot with regards to shadowing, that medical schools prefer shadowing to be done in the US, does the same apply here?

 

[Opuntia]

Thank you for the kind words. Just a quick question about Fulbright, do you think it would be feasible to be in Europe while still applying to medical school? That's kind of the plan for me right now, but I'm worried about time difference and stuff like that.

Yes, it definitely is possible! I had two friends do it last year (during their Fulbright Research year) and both had outrageously successful cycles (ended up at Harvard and Baylor MSTP). I will be spending the year in west Africa while I apply in the upcoming cycle because that's where my job is located. My friends who applied from abroad said it was always talked about during the interview as something unique. That said, as you mention, your interviews will typically be late at night, so my friends said their sleep schedules got very strange. Nevertheless, still possible! But, as you say, it's hard to get clinical experience abroad. Could you get a clinical job over the summer before leaving for your ETA? I also did Case Investigations/Contact Tracing for a bit from abroad, so it's possible to get clinical experience, even if it's digital (keep in mind that this was during the pandemic, of course, so opportunities like this might be a bit harder to find). How much do you want to do the ETA?

 

[deleted1161197]

Yes, it definitely is possible! I had two friends do it last year (during their Fulbright Research year) and both had outrageously successful cycles (ended up at Harvard and Baylor MSTP). I will be spending the year in west Africa while I apply in the upcoming cycle because that's where my job is located. My friends who applied from abroad said it was always talked about during the interview as something unique. That said, as you mention, your interviews will typically be late at night, so my friends said their sleep schedules got very strange. Nevertheless, still possible! But, as you say, it's hard to get clinical experience abroad. Could you get a clinical job over the summer before leaving for your ETA? I also did Case Investigations/Contact Tracing for a bit from abroad, so it's possible to get clinical experience, even if it's digital (keep in mind that this was during the pandemic, of course, so opportunities like this might be a bit harder to find). How much do you want to do the ETA?

I'll definitely try to rack up some more clinical, I think my likely option will be probably be patient transport at this time which I know isn't the strongest clinical experience.

I really do want to do the ETA, especially since I don't think it will hold that much weight just to list it and never do it, but I'm a little torn since I also agree with everyone else that my weaknesses are clinical and community hours. What do you think? Will it mean anything to forgo actually doing Fulbright and just listing it?

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

I'll definitely try to rack up some more clinical, I think my likely option will be probably be patient transport at this time which I know isn't the strongest clinical experience.

I really do want to do the ETA, especially since I don't think it will hold that much weight just to list it and never do it, but I'm a little torn since I also agree with everyone else that my weaknesses are clinical and community hours. What do you think? Will it mean anything to forgo actually doing Fulbright and just listing it?

You should not forgo the Fulbright dude. Take an extra year after you get back. You will regret skipping something like that for the rest of your life, not everything has to be about med school 100%.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Really appreciate the thoughtful response, I will definitely try to reach out and ask if I could do volunteering while on Fulbright.

Can I ask though, do medical schools not value clinical/community volunteering done abroad as much? I hear that a lot with regards to shadowing, that medical schools prefer shadowing to be done in the US, does the same apply here?

Thanks,

I think what's not valued is a "medical trip" where you pay to go to an exotic location and both tour and do a little volunteering. Basically a vacation with a little volunteering so that you can put it on your app.

That's not what you'd be doing. We're talking about you being on the Fulbright and taking your free time to volunteer . You'd also be familiarizing yourself with a different healthcare system, which will broaden your perspective. It will be a longer term commitment (or should be) on your part, not a six-week, part-time jaunt.

Other forum members, please chime in if you disagree on the distinction.

 

[theoceanman]

Really appreciate the thoughtful response, I will definitely try to reach out and ask if I could do volunteering while on Fulbright.

Can I ask though, do medical schools not value clinical/community volunteering done abroad as much? I hear that a lot with regards to shadowing, that medical schools prefer shadowing to be done in the US, does the same apply here?

It’s because you’re going to go to medical school in the US and not some other country. These medical schools want to see that you can give back to the community around you, locally, statewide, and nationally through the clinical and non-clinical endeavors that you undertake. Sure, shadowing a foreign physician or volunteering in community service in another country might give show your character better than others by a little bit and give another medical perspective, but it won’t make-up for your lack of US-related experiences.

I still stand by the idea that although your Fulbright experience should be valued, but you should also prioritize engaging in service to your local community in the US to showcase that you’re mission-fit for certain schools with certain missions and values. This may result in you having to consider foregoing your Fulbright, as Mr.Smile12 has stated earlier to improve upon your application.

As I mentioned earlier in my posts above as well as others have pointed out, you appear to have done the exact bare minimum required by medical schools to pass by the screen-out process, almost as if you were undertaking some strategic pre-planned route given by your pre-health advisors. How do you know you want to pursue medicine over a PhD when you’ve only shadowed a pediatrician for 25 hours, which is at most a week’s worth of shadowing experience? Your current application, if you choose to do the Fulbright experience, will require another gap year following it since your experiences are lacking.

 

[deleted1141182]

Hi, thank you for the kind words and feedback. I had some upperclassmen friends who are in medical school now review my writing, as well as my health advising office from undergrad. I'll probably use SDN as well this time around, what do you think?

Solid plan, but if it was cleared by your friends and office I don't think your writing was your downfall. Seems to me that "fine" ECs (solid but nothing mind-blowing) plus bad luck led to rejection. Sorry again, this must have been a very stressful and disappointing experience.

 

[allseasons]

When did you find out you got the ETA position for next year? Would you really have given that up to go to medical school?

Describe your practice for interviews. When did you start?

Let's start from the top. With such an outstanding set of metrics, your experiences are amazingly lackluster. Your clinical experience hours are extremely minimal, and I don't understand what experiences anchor your calling in Health Care.

Your nonclinical experience is similarly lackluster with barely the minimum hours to avoid elimination from screening. The problem is that for file deliberation, you really need to show consistent passion that goes along with your metrics.

Your leadership looks fine, but I don't see impact in your description. I suspect that for the name brands that decided not to interview you, they would think that your leadership experience also did not result in an impactful improvement in the community. As a result, it's really hard to see any mission or cultural fit with the schools on your list. You likely had a second chance at your interviews and did not finish the deal.

Enjoy your Fulbright experience and apply after you are done. Take time outside of a college campus to really serve the community and get significant clinical experience.

TL/DR: What did you do wrong? You found SDN too late.

"nonclinical experience is similarly lackluster with barely the minimum hours to avoid elimination": I applied with fewer nonclinical hours and got accepted to multiple T20s. Lack of nonclinical never even came up in interview. I have never heard anyone say 250 hours is barely the minimum and lackluster.

@thatguysofly , you're in a great place, honestly. I'm telling you as someone that was once in your very shoes. Your problem was honestly just your lower clinicals combined with a terrible school list (You only applied to 3 schools outside the T20) and mediocre interview performance. Your 4 interviews were at spectacular places. If your application was carried by purely just numbers, these schools wouldn't have interviewed you since half their class has 520+ stats. Especially UCLA, which really focuses on the holistic app.

I'm a reapplicant with 4.0 520+ that got into multiple T20s my second try after fixing those very mistakes. Your future is bright! Good luck!

 

[deleted1161197]

how in the world did you come to half these conclusions
"nonclinical experience is similarly lackluster with barely the minimum hours to avoid elimination": I applied with fewer nonclinical hours and got accepted to multiple T20s. Lack of nonclinical never even came up in interview. I have never heard anyone say 250 hours is barely the minimum and lackluster.
"You already sound entitled and misinformed". Misinformed, agreed. Entitled... bro where? You're being incredibly arrogant and belittling for no reason.

@thatguysofly , you're in a great place, honestly. I'm telling you as someone that was once in your very shoes. Your problem was honestly just your lower clinicals combined with a terrible school list (You only applied to 3 schools outside the T20) and mediocre interview performance. Your 4 interviews were at spectacular places. If your application was carried by purely just numbers, these schools wouldn't have interviewed you since half their class has 520+ stats. Especially UCLA, which really focuses on the holistic app.

I'm a reapplicant with 4.0 520+ that got into multiple T20s my second try after fixing those very mistakes. Your future is bright! Good luck!

Thank you for the kind words

I think perhaps a prime reason I was rejected was due to poor interviewing skills, combined with an application that looks like box checking. It's inspiring to hear from someone who was in a similar position and made it through though, really appreciate you!

 

[0nc0whiz]

This is crazy lol. I’m a long time lurker on this sub and man, we really have too many expectations for pre-med applicants. Is there really that much more to be gained when comparing 100 to 500 hours of shadowing? Especially when people are going to be shadowing for hundreds to thousands of hours during medical school?

For what it’s worth (probably nothing), I got into a T20 for med school and a corresponding top 10 position for my residency and fellowship programs, so I’m not some salty person lol.

 

[tzuyu&yuqi]

Absolutely no way don’t forgo fullbright, that’s a once in a lifetime opportunity, if need be take another gap year after that to work service/other ECs but I think you would regret giving up fullbright…not everything has to be about med school

 

[notsurewho]

stellar stats, clinical is definitely low which is worrying as I'm not sure how you can write meaningful experiences in secondaries and your "why medicine", shadowing is a little low (ideally I think 50-75 hours with diversity of fields/specialities would be nice). Would recommend have someone honestly evaluate your writing and interview skills.

These are things that a 1-2 gap years would easily fix (working a patient-facing job for 1 month would already be at least 80 hrs+) and you would see a LOT more success. Also add in schools outside T20...

 

[please.let.me.in]

This is crazy lol. I’m a long time lurker on this sub and man, we really have too many expectations for pre-med applicants. Is there really that much more to be gained when comparing 100 to 500 hours of shadowing? Especially when people are going to be shadowing for hundreds to thousands of hours during medical school?

"nonclinical experience is similarly lackluster with barely the minimum hours to avoid elimination": I applied with fewer nonclinical hours and got accepted to multiple T20s. Lack of nonclinical never even came up in interview. I have never heard anyone say 250 hours is barely the minimum and lackluster.
"You already sound entitled and misinformed". Misinformed, agreed. Entitled... bro where?

@thatguysofly , you're in a great place, honestly. I'm telling you as someone that was once in your very shoes. Your problem was honestly just your lower clinicals combined with a terrible school list (You only applied to 3 schools outside the T20) and mediocre interview performance. Your 4 interviews were at spectacular places. If your application was carried by purely just numbers, these schools wouldn't have interviewed you since half their class has 520+ stats. Especially UCLA, which really focuses on the holistic app.

Preach! I am of the opinion that people have been super unfair to OP on this thread. Sometimes, things also just don't go your way and there isn't anything more you could have done. These schools have ridiculously low acceptance rates, and simple probability says that not getting into a single school on this list is a very real possibility even if you did everything right.

 

[0nc0whiz]

Yeah I mean I feel for OP. How are you supposed to be a normal adult and dedicate every waking moment to your prospective career? Idk, my comment is also more about pre-med applications in general.

 

[Opuntia]

I'll definitely try to rack up some more clinical, I think my likely option will be probably be patient transport at this time which I know isn't the strongest clinical experience.

I really do want to do the ETA, especially since I don't think it will hold that much weight just to list it and never do it, but I'm a little torn since I also agree with everyone else that my weaknesses are clinical and community hours. What do you think? Will it mean anything to forgo actually doing Fulbright and just listing it?

For what it's worth, I used to be dead set on not taking gap years. The pandemic and the Fulbright grant pushed me to take a gap year. In hindsight, these years abroad have been the best of my life and I have explored so much of life outside of medicine and academics. I don't think getting a Fulbright and declining it will look any particular way to admissions committees. Perhaps it could give a bit more weight to your ECs, but without the experience and reflection, you won't have anything to talk about if asked about it. Therein lies the beauty of a Fulbright grant--getting international experience, having your perspectives challenged, learning about a new way of life, making friends around the world.

If you need more clinical and volunteering experience and you are dead set on not taking an additional gap year, you can get experience while you're doing your Fulbright. Volunteer for a community organization in your new city; there's bound to be many opportunities! And as for clinical experience, you can try to set up shadowing gigs for when you're home for the holidays. That's what I did. In the end though, if you don't take another gap year, critical reflections on these new experiences will not show up on the application. If you wait another year, you can reflect on them, write them in your app, and have a lot to talk about during interviews. And during that application year (the year after Fulbright), you can get a job and rack up some money to have during medical school.

In many ways, when I started Fulbright, I was sad to not be going to medical school as soon as I thought, but the extra time, experiences, and perspectives I gained made me such a better human–and I still get to pursue medical school after all. I'm applying this cycle and I know with 100000% confidence that this is the right career for me, and I know I'll be refreshed before starting school in 2024 (hopefully!!).

Please do let me know if you have any other questions. Sending you my best!

 

[sugasathya]

Hello everyone, at this time I unfortunately have received my last rejection and will have to reapply next cycle. Please let me know what I should do to improve, I will also be reading @Goro guide to reinvention.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
   1. 4.0 for cGPA and sGPA
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
   1. 527 (132/132/132/131)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
   1. CA
4. Ethnicity and/or race
   1. Asian, ORM
5. Undergraduate institution or category
   1. UCLA
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   1. 200 hours patient sitter (walked elderly patients around, sat with patients who had dementia, etc)
7. Research experience and productivity
   1. 1500 hours working in microbiology lab, 2 posters (1 at undergrad, 1 at national conference), presenting author
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
   1. 25 hours, my pediatrician
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   1. 100 hours Food Bank
   2. 150 hours Big Brother Big Sister
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    1. President of premedical association on campus
    2. Founded a cultural non-profit that I was involved in for 3 years in undergrad
    3. Microbiology TA
11. Relevant honors or awards
    1. None besides Dean's list
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

School List:
Harvard
Yale
NYU
WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
Columbia
Northwestern
Mount Sinai
Mayo
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Stanford
UPenn
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC Keck

Interviews at NYU, UPenn, UCLA, Hopkins, all ended with rejection.

I have no IA's, arrests, convictions, etc. I did take Gen Chem II at community college though over the summer, because I forgot to sign up for it freshmen year, maybe that played a factor at these T20 schools? Also, my clinical and non-clinical seem pretty weak now that I reflect back on those.

I will be pursuing a Fulbright ETA in Europe this next year, which I hope will bolster my application. This has been extremely humbling (and disappointing) to say the least, please let me know what red flags you see on my app!

Really feel bad for the student (and also this stupid admission process). You put all effort to keep up 4.0 from one of the most competitive public school, with exceptional MCAT score and decent amount of EC's. I am sure this temporary negative blip won't affect your bright future. Probably could even think about using your talents in Research/Startups etc., and contribute to the world in a much bigger way.

 

[JiggyG.]

I’m a nobody, but…
With your PERFECT stats, you should have received WAY more than 4 interviews!!! So many more.
THEREFORE THE PROBLEM STEMS FROM YOUR MAIN AMCAS APPLICATION AND SECONDARIES.
1) So, start by questioniing everything you on the initial application/secondaries: unenthusiastic letters of rec? weak clinical & volunteer experience? weak personal statement?
2) You also have to fight the Asian stereotype of a “grind,” which your high stats/weaker experiences might suggest to AdComs. What you do in the next few months (before you reapply) should specifically fight this stereotype!! No more research or classes. Get some fantastic clinical and/or fantastic volunteer experience. Something that will really stand out and show some personality.
3) You should have applied to a few “backups” or ”likelies“ - With your stats, there are some lower ranked med schools or D.O. schools that would have accepted you regardless of anything else in your application. And you might be headed to med school right now. Next time do that.
The good news is you have already achieved the hardest part: perfect stats. The rest is fixable before reapplying.
Let us know what you end up doing and what happens to you. Your story is very interesting. I am sure success is around the corner for you if you approach this “failure” with a growth mindset. You have achieved a LOT in your university career. And you will achieve more!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Wouldn’t being a 4.0/527 candidate with 200 clinical experience + 250 non-clinical volunteering + 1500 research be a positive first impression on the top schools?

My first impression is the candidate has satisfied our minimum expectations.

This assumes the candidate has the secondary submitted and reported Casper or PREview scores. Many candidates fail to do this, so the initial impression is moot... and the file remains on hold.

Other screeners may look at just the W/A and/or essays separately. Metrics and demographics may be redacted.

Note I am not describing every screening process among medical schools.

 

[deleted1161197]

I’m a nobody, but…
With your PERFECT stats, you should have received WAY more than 4 interviews!!! So many more.
THEREFORE THE PROBLEM STEMS FROM YOUR MAIN AMCAS APPLICATION AND SECONDARIES.
1) So, start by questioniing everything you on the initial application/secondaries: unenthusiastic letters of rec? weak clinical & volunteer experience? weak personal statement?
2) You also have to fight the Asian stereotype of a “grind,” which your high stats/weaker experiences might suggest to AdComs. What you do in the next few months (before you reapply) should specifically fight this stereotype!! No more research or classes. Get some fantastic clinical and/or fantastic volunteer experience. Something that will really stand out and show some personality.
3) You should have applied to a few “backups” or ”likelies“ - With your stats, there are some lower ranked med schools or D.O. schools that would have accepted you regardless of anything else in your application. And you might be headed to med school right now. Next time do that.
The good news is you have already achieved the hardest part: perfect stats. The rest is fixable before reapplying.
Let us know what you end up doing and what happens to you. Your story is very interesting. I am sure success is around the corner for you if you approach this “failure” with a growth mindset. You have achieved a LOT in your university career. And you will achieve more!

Thank you for the kind words, this will definitely will take lots of self-reflection. My school list definitely was too aggressive, I also think my interviewing was rather poor as @Faha pointed out, now that I think about it.

Will schools give me feedback if I ask for it do you think?

 

[Faha]

Thank you for the kind words, this will definitely will take lots of self-reflection. My school list definitely was too aggressive, I also think my interviewing was rather poor as @Faha pointed out, now that I think about it.

Will schools give me feedback if I ask for it do you think?

I think your poor interviewing was the major factor. You had 4 interviews and they all resulted in a post interview rejection. A more typical outcome after 4 interviews would be one rejection and 3 waitlist. The fact that none of those 4 schools was willing to put you on the waitlist is unusual and points to the actual interviews as the problem.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Will schools give me feedback if I ask for it do you think?

All you can do is ask, but don't expect help unless you ask at recruitment events. A lot of us are busy all the time, especially filling the new class right now.

 

[theoceanman]

Thank you for the kind words, this will definitely will take lots of self-reflection. My school list definitely was too aggressive, I also think my interviewing was rather poor as @Faha pointed out, now that I think about it.

Will schools give me feedback if I ask for it do you think?

It doesn't hurt to ask since this is probably one of the most valuable pieces of feedback you will get since it's directly from the admissions committee or even your interviewer, but they may be busy. There may be some contradicting advice given, but they should all point towards a specific direction in the end. I think with much better interview prep with over a year in the making and with your Fulbright giving you a ton of new opportunities to meet and work with new people, I think you will be on the right-path to a successful cycle on the next time around for sure.

Don't beat yourself up too much for it, as I stated earlier, you've shown you can handle medical school very well, but just need a bit of time. It's a process, but one you can definitely come out successful. Best of luck, cheers!

 

[chilly_md]

A reminder to keep things professional and please stay on topic.

Sniping comments are not allowed.

 

[LindaAccepted]

I yesterday interviewed the head of admissions at MSU CHM, and he said that they do provide limited feedback -- if asked. The episode is supposed to air on May 9 so it's not up yet, but that is what he said.

And as @Mr.Smile12 said, all you can do is ask.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Build interview skills, get more volunteering experience. There should be communities and people that need you, wherever you are. That and a less top heavy school list will help you a lot. Your near-perfect stats will catch the eye of adcoms anywhere. I kind of want to see @Goro's advice on this...if anything, the OP seems like they would be a stellar candidate at his school, provided they don't bomb the interview: they have near-perfect stats and boxes checked.

 

[Goro]

Build interview skills, get more volunteering experience. There should be communities and people that need you, wherever you are. That and a less top heavy school list will help you a lot. Your near-perfect stats will catch the eye of adcoms anywhere. I kind of want to see @Goro's advice on this...if anything, the OP seems like they would be a stellar candidate at his school, provided they don't bomb the interview: they have near-perfect stats and boxes checked.

I agree that OP sure looks like a superstar.

Multiple II and then rejections hint strongly at weak interview skills. Also, list is too top heavy and should have had some Emory/Einstein class schools. I recommend getting in ~30 more shadowing hours

@thatguysofly , you can't reinvent a perfect set of stats. Suggest getting more service to others less fortunate than yourself.

Add the following to your school list next year:
Kaiser
Emory
Western MI
USF/Morsani
UTxSW
U IA
U Cincy
U Rochester
Hofstra
U WI
SUNY.SW
U MA
Brown
Tufts
SLU
Baylor
U Pitt

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

@thatguysofly , you can't reinvent a perfect set of stats. Suggest getting more service to others less fortunate than yourself.

Surely he would benefit from an MCAT retake...that one point shy of perfection was what doomed the OP.

Joking aside, maybe try something social that would also help you with interviewing. Maybe something like community theater for at-risk kids. Consider an interview coach or other professional. More volunteering and even just decent interviews will probably get you into medical school next year.

 

[Goro]

Surely he would benefit from an MCAT retake...that one point shy of perfection was what doomed the OP.

Joking aside, maybe try something social that would also help you with interviewing. Maybe something like community theater for at-risk kids. Consider an interview coach or other professional. More volunteering and even just decent interviews will probably get you into medical school next year.

A job in retail sales would be even better, especially such as a barista.