Likely reapplicant; where did I go wrong? Writing or stats? 510/3.3/IA/ORM

[superdesperate]

This is a long post and for that I apologize.

I'm in need of some dire advice on how to approach my next application cycle. I currently have no IIs and need to know where I went wrong before I shell out thousands of dollars on a DIY post bacc and consulting services.

NY/ORM/SES disadvantaged/506->510 MCAT/3.3 cgpa and 3.1 sgpa. I have an IA as well (I've talked about this a ton in the past so you might recognize me but after my SA, I went to IG and jokingly told people to beat him up. I took full ownership of this in my apps and reiterated how I was in the wrong). This was in 2018, so hopefully adcoms are able to overlook it.

My science gpa trend is as follows: 2.6 -> 2.8 -> 3.4 -> 3.62. The context behind the first two years is that I was just a bad student and I got sexually assaulted. I realize that the trend isn't magnificently upward but it is what it is.

Current Application:

• Clinical experiences:
  • Scribing: 1500 hours; my PS statement focused a lot on what I saw during COVID as a scribe.
  • COVID-19 testing: 180 hours
• Research:
  • Wet lab: 110 hours; no pubs
  • Clinical research: 350 hours; no pubs. I started this job in April of last year, a few months before I submitted my app so maybe that was a red flag. Recently started a different research job and updated a few schools about it.
• Volunteering: Total: 700+ hrs
  • Health lessons for medically underserved middle schoolers: 50 hours
  • Sexual assault advocate: 600 hours
  • Suicide hotline: 40 hours; this started in June of my app cycle so maybe that was also a red flag.
  • Cat shelter: 50 hours
  • I'm also a spokesperson for an SA organization so I spoke at a few events to raise awareness.
• TA: 80 hrs
• Writing:
  • As a hobby: 360 hours; wrote a 100k words "novel" for myself lol.
  • For campus student magazine: 140 hrs
• Tutoring (paid):
  • Tutoring at risk high school students: 80 hrs
  • Tutoring elementary and middle schoolers: 240 hrs

My LoRs should be fine except I only have ONE science LoR which may have been a red flag.

My current school list:

MDs:

Rejections from: SUNY Upstate, Jacobs, Georgetown, Virginia Tech, George Washington, and West Virginia.
Silence from: SUNY Downstate, Albany, Quinnipiac, Oakland, Loyola, Rush, Temple, Drexel and CMU. Many of these schools have a habit of sending one massive R wave at the end of the cycle with the exception of Drexel, Rush and Oakland. I'm sure those R's will be at my door by next week though.

DOs:

Rejections: KCU-COM (gpa screen), CCOM, and PNWUCOM (not OOS friendly. They said that and my lack of rural experience was the major reason I did not get an II).
II waitlist: AZCOM
Silence from: WVSOM, ATSU-KCOM, NYITCOM, PCOM, RVUCOM and no secondary so far from WesternUCom (they also prefer in region). WVSOM will likely reject me because they're rural and RVUCOM might reject me because my MCAT is a bit higher than their average.

I reached out to someone on reddit (a student on adcom) and they said the following were my weak points:
1) The IA: can't do much about that now, I'm afraid.
2) The GPA: should be fine for DO, not MD without a post-bacc.
3) Lack of second science LoR: I'm planning on taking a CC course this semester so I can get a second letter. I went to a school where classes were easily 450+ students for some so getting another LoR from there would be impossible.
4) The writing: For my ECs I used Dr. Grey's story telling method. Basically I described an interaction with someone and then explained how I impacted them as opposed to listing out roles.

The redditor also said that my PS could use some work because I needed to write less about other people's stories and talk more about why I want to become a doctor and why I'd be a good doctor. I did use a few stories in my PS; Mainly I talked about how being in the ER as a scribe felt useless during COVID, the first time I ever went with a doctor to tell a patient's family that the patient had died and another story about how a sexual assault victim didn't receive care due to being low income and how I wanted to mitigate that in the future. If it matters, my scribing job served patients in a very poor part of my state and I'm currently working in a city hospital so again, lots of underserved patients.

Now, I did ask family and friends and a current med student to read my PS and they all said it was compelling. I also didn't want to "sell" myself to med schools by saying "I'm compassionate because I did this, this, this." But given the fact that I have no IIs from DOs as well, maybe my writing actually sucked.

Future application:


I have continued at the suicide hotline (but will likely quit soon). I should have 100 hours from this activity for my next app. I also started a different clinical research job with stigmatized patient populations (don't want to doxx myself so I don't want to make this more specific) and will have 1000 hours by June but no pubs.

The reason why my DO school list was so limited was because many require 2 science LoRs so obviously I will work on getting that this cycle.

I have 2 options for the future:

1) Post bacc: Now, idk if it's worth it to do a post bacc and spend 7-8k trying to show a stronger gpa trend for MD schools. I'm already not very competitive for MDs and honestly even after a post bacc, my sGPA will remain appallingly low. For MDs, my MCAT isn't great either-its average.

2) Get another science LoR and just apply to my state MDs and all DOs for next cycle without a post bacc and redo my PS and other writing. With this option, I will likely not be doing anything else between now and June except for working full time in research; will that reflect poorly on me? I am *thinking* about doing some more volunteer work but again, I'm not sure. I also live in one of the biggest cities in the US so rural healthcare experience would very incredibly difficult to come by.

But I'm still stuck. I don't know where I went wrong. On paper, I should be okay for DO schools but I've been ghosted by the majority of them. I'm assuming my writing is pretty bad. Do you guys have any advice to give because I have no clue how to move forward.

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[Mr.Smile12]

Could your summarize what we told you in your WAMC request? I recall we encouraged you to keep working on grades (option 1). Going this route could get you more science professors for references.

How many other people read your application? One student on an adcom may not have the whole picture since most medical students in committee won't be screening applications, so I don't know about that advice.

Pardon the pitch, but I do read application essays for Becoming a Student Doctor enrollees. There will also be other SDN volunteers who can help you too. Get as many perspectives as you can on your writing, but be careful processing feedback that is too formulaic. (Did I talk to you about W/A in private before?)

 

[superdesperate]

Could your summarize what we told you in your WAMC request? I recall we encouraged you to keep working on grades (option 1). Going this route could get you more science professors for references.

How many other people read your application? One student on an adcom may not have the whole picture since most medical students in committee won't be screening applications, so I don't know about that advice.

Pardon the pitch, but I do read application essays for Becoming a Student Doctor enrollees. There will also be other SDN volunteers who can help you too. Get as many perspectives as you can on your writing, but be careful processing feedback that is too formulaic. (Did I talk to you about W/A in private before?)

Hello! Yes, you did recommend a post bacc but honestly I posted in April of last year and was pretty much set on apply for this cycle. A few other adcoms said I should be fine for DO. I think maybe the reason why I’ve had bad luck with DOs is because of my writing and because of my tiny DO list. I sort of figured that by applying to RVUCOM I’d at least get in because their MCAT is a lot lower but I was obviously wrong. As for my essays, I had two non premed friends, my sisters (one’s doing an MPH if it mattered) and a med student read it. They all had different advice to give but the consensus seemed to be that it cohesive enough. I just kind of freaked out after the redditors comment because they’re an MS4 on the committee AND I don’t have any IIs so the signs seemed to point to my writing…

I could possibly do 21 credits by June but if I wanted to do a complete 30 credits, I’d have to wait another year before applying, which would make me a nontrad applicant. I honestly don’t want to be applying in my late 20s.

 

[Aksea23]

I feel like the answer here is as multi-faceted as the original post. I don't have answers to everything, but I do have a few recommendations:

As far as the IA goes, how does it read on. your transcript? It might be worth leaving it out unless asked about it. It's possible that adcoms look unfavorably on the way you described the situation, and felt it was too much of a risk to move forward (even though what happened TO you was terrible). I would also leave out the part about "jokingly" posting it - as they say, there is always some truth to our humor.

As far as your writing goes, there are plenty of people on here who would be able to look at it! You could also check social media (specifically instagram) because there are basically a million people offering application edits. There are services as well once you have a strong working draft and are ready to spend more money. Don't forget to have people read your activities section (and secondaries if you can).

As far as your school list goes: it was ok (although there were maybe too many MD) and your GPA is still quite low for MD. It might be worth it to go through the DO cycle this coming year with a new LOR, new essays, etc., it might be all you need. However, a 3.6x sGPA as the highest end of your upward trend after a couple of bad years might not be enough. You could try to find a school on the quarter system and take two science classes spring quarter (there may also be schools in your area that haven't started their spring semester yet if you look ASAP). If you perform well in those, your application might be boosted by showing additional progress.

 

[superdesperate]

I feel like the answer here is as multi-faceted as the original post. I don't have answers to everything, but I do have a few recommendations:

As far as the IA goes, how does it read on. your transcript? It might be worth leaving it out unless asked about it. It's possible that adcoms look unfavorably on the way you described the situation, and felt it was too much of a risk to move forward (even though what happened TO you was terrible). I would also leave out the part about "jokingly" posting it - as they say, there is always some truth to our humor.

As far as your writing goes, there are plenty of people on here who would be able to look at it! You could also check social media (specifically instagram) because there are basically a million people offering application edits. There are services as well once you have a strong working draft and are ready to spend more money. Don't forget to have people read your activities section (and secondaries if you can).

As far as your school list goes: it was ok (although there were maybe too many MD) and your GPA is still quite low for MD. It might be worth it to go through the DO cycle this coming year with a new LOR, new essays, etc., it might be all you need. However, a 3.6x sGPA as the highest end of your upward trend after a couple of bad years might not be enough. You could try to find a school on the quarter system and take two science classes spring quarter (there may also be schools in your area that haven't started their spring semester yet if you look ASAP). If you perform well in those, your application might be boosted by showing additional progress.

Thank you for the advice. I was trying to cheap out but I guess post bacc is the way to go. Do you think that 21 credits by June would be okay?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you for the advice. I was trying to cheap out but I guess post bacc is the way to go. Do you think that 21 credits by June would be okay?

21 credits in one semester is a heavy course load. You have to find the right balance to get A's in those classes. I also don't know your financial constraints. Were you taking classes during your application period (last summer/fall)? If so, how did you do? I didn't remember if LOR's were an issue you had raised initially.

Since you had no interviews, the first area to look at is your application and how you presented yourself. Obviously we can't really do that on a public forum, but Becoming a Student Doctor can help with more personalized feedback as a whole (and it won't cost you thousands... use that money for your classes and other application expenses).

 

[Aksea23]

Thank you for the advice. I was trying to cheap out but I guess post bacc is the way to go. Do you think that 21 credits by June would be okay?

21 quarter credits or semester credits? I would not recommend 21 semester credits. Maybe 12 at the most (per semester). If the school is on the quarter system, 21 would be fine (over 2 quarters).

 

[chilly_md]

Taking some upper division science classes to boost your GPA over 3.2 or 3.3 (if possible) would help with some of the cut-offs. Agree that you should evaluate your writing, especially how you approached the IA. For the personal statement,this thread does a great job explaining major pitfalls that applicants make in their writing:

To Premeds: General Advice on Personal Statements

Okay, so I’m exhausted as heck but had a chance to go through about 10 personal statements recently, and I can say that here are some common issues that we see in essays (as I’ve talked to peers, other admissions members, and the like): 1) Numero Uno: On SDN: If a reader says they are UNABLE...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Did you get a chance to see if you could retroactively withdraw from classes?

Get the additional science LOR as well as a DO letter (hopefully there is one you work with at the scribe job). That will allow you to apply to many more DO schools.

 

[gyngyn]

DO schools love a DO letter.

 

[superdesperate]

DO schools love a DO letter.

I actually did have a DO letter

 

[Med Ed]

Do you guys have any advice to give because I have no clue how to move forward.

1. Do not use the storytelling approach for all your ECs. At most it may be applicable to the most meaningful ones, but sometimes the reviewer (who may have to read 50,000 EC entries per year) just wants the facts.
2. I would not include spending 360 hours (the equivalent of 9 full-time work weeks) writing a novel to myself. It has a high risk of appearing odd in an off-putting way, and if your hours are a bit low in other areas it looks like you don't know how to allocated your times.
3. Every year we have at least one applicant for whom SA advocacy is their "thing." I don't know to what extent you have incorporated this into your application, but I would probably put it front and center. If you do it right it can be compelling, and even mitigate your IA to some extent. Ultimately all you need is one adcom on one committee to read your story and decide to go to bat for you.

 

[superdesperate]

1. Do not use the storytelling approach for all your ECs. At most it may be applicable to the most meaningful ones, but sometimes the reviewer (who may have to read 50,000 EC entries per year) just wants the facts.
2. I would not include spending 360 hours (the equivalent of 9 full-time work weeks) writing a novel to myself. It has a high risk of appearing odd in an off-putting way, and if your hours are a bit low in other areas it looks like you don't know how to allocated your times.
3. Every year we have at least one applicant for whom SA advocacy is their "thing." I don't know to what extent you have incorporated this into your application, but I would probably put it front and center. If you do it right it can be compelling, and even mitigate your IA to some extent. Ultimately all you need is one adcom on one committee to read your story and decide to go to bat for you.

Hi, thank you for the feedback! I’m definitely going to have people read through my app for next cycle but after talking to everyone it seems that it’s probably my bad GPA holding me back. My wallet is very sad but I’m going to be doing a diy post bacc, expand my school list and have someone review my writing. As for #3, I’m not sure if SA advocacy is my thing (admittedly I’ve done a fair amount of work with it), so to speak. I will say that much of my app just caters towards volunteering/working with vulnerable populations in general like SA survivors, those with mental illnesses, at risk youth and so on. And as for the story telling ECs, do you think that that’s just a meh flaw in my app or a big one? I’m just trying to figure out what was truly the nail in the coffin for me-writing, gpa, IA…or a mix of everything.

 

[Med Ed]

Hi, thank you for the feedback! I’m definitely going to have people read through my app for next cycle but after talking to everyone it seems that it’s probably my bad GPA holding me back. My wallet is very sad but I’m going to be doing a diy post bacc, expand my school list and have someone review my writing. As for #3, I’m not sure if SA advocacy is my thing (admittedly I’ve done a fair amount of work with it), so to speak. I will say that much of my app just caters towards volunteering/working with vulnerable populations in general like SA survivors, those with mental illnesses, at risk youth and so on. And as for the story telling ECs, do you think that that’s just a meh flaw in my app or a big one? I’m just trying to figure out what was truly the nail in the coffin for me-writing, gpa, IA…or a mix of everything.

It's a mix. People with your numbers got interviews and acceptances last year, and you need to fight the war on multiple fronts to improve everything you can. The description of your personal statement sounds like it was all over the place.

I would like to point out that 81.1% of the volunteer hours you list above were for sexual assault advocacy. This work clearly means something to you, and it could unite the disparate parts of your application into something cohesive.

Finally, medical students who have been on admissions committees can be good sources of information, but they also have rather narrow perspectives. You should take everything with a grain of salt and resist the urge to rely too heavily on one person's opinion. Including mine.