4 kids before first year

[237696]

Well, I don't have any kids myself, but when I was in fifth grade my mom started medical school. She had three at the time (we were 14, 10 and 4) and then had another during second year and another during her third year of residency. Now she's a mom of five and a successful practicing physician and has been an amazing role model. I think in the long run, even though there might be a lot more stress and balancing in your household, your children will benefit from looking up to such a good role model with a mother who went for her dreams and worked hard to accomplish something very difficult. I don't feel I was affected negatively by my mom's decision and am glad for the example she set for us kids.

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[Crelal]

Well, I don't have any kids myself, but when I was in fifth grade my mom started medical school. She had three at the time (we were 14, 10 and 4) and then had another during second year and another during her third year of residency. Now she's a mom of five and a successful practicing physician and has been an amazing role model. I think in the long run, even though there might be a lot more stress and balancing in your household, your children will benefit from looking up to such a good role model with a mother who went for her dreams and worked hard to accomplish something very difficult. I don't feel I was affected negatively by my mom's decision and am glad for the example she set for us kids.

THANK YOU for your post.

Too often I have people with no experience in this area judging me and saying "Don't you think your kids will miss out because of all the hours you will be away?". I always reply that 1)my children have always gotten quality time, not necessarily quantity, and 2) at the end of the day, I hope my children will learn to go after their dreams.

Oh, and 3) I just about went insane after 4 weeks off when our youngest was born. I have the utmost respect for sah parents, I just am not built that way.

 

[cbrons]

maybe I shouldn't chime in, and I hope not to sound too rude, but isn't it pretty irresponsible to pursue a medical career when you have young children to take care of? Unless of course your spouse has the time to do it. I'm just saying because I worked in child care for years and thought it was pretty damn irresponsible of parents to drop their kids off at 6 am and pick them up at 7 pm... they basically have us raising their kids for them.

 

[Nanon]

maybe I shouldn't chime in, and I hope not to sound too rude, but isn't it pretty irresponsible to pursue a medical career when you have young children to take care of? Unless of course your spouse has the time to do it. I'm just saying because I worked in child care for years and thought it was pretty damn irresponsible of parents to drop their kids off at 6 am and pick them up at 7 pm... they basically have us raising their kids for them.

It is rude, but I'll play...

Most families have two parents working out of necessity. Sometimes, the parents have flexibility in their work hours and don't have long commute times. That's the case in my situation - we can work from home at night or work weird hours after the kiddo goes down, so he's only in daycare from 9 to 5. But if that weren't the case, if we had to be there from 8 - 5 (a typical work day), and we had an hour commute each way (a typical commute in this area), then yes, he would be in daycare far longer. And if I were a single mom, then he'd be in from 6am to 7pm, so I could do the shopping, go to the drugstore, etc.

People do the very best they can in really hard situations, and it's pretty rare that I meet parents who don't genuinely love their kids. As a kid who grew up in foster care, maybe my standard for "neglect" is a little higher than a kid who grew up with his mom at home. However, my kid is doing great - smart, funny, kind, creative and cool. So we must be doing something right.

And btw, did you even read the rest of this thread? One woman breast fed between ochem set ups. I work until 1am sometimes so I can get time with my kid while he's awake. 3rd degree burns in the name of BREAST MILK!!! No parental slacking here, so far as I can see.

 

[cbrons]

It is rude, but I'll play...

Most families have two parents working out of necessity. Sometimes, the parents have flexibility in their work hours and don't have long commute times. That's the case in my situation - we can work from home at night or work weird hours after the kiddo goes down, so he's only in daycare from 9 to 5. But if that weren't the case, if we had to be there from 8 - 5 (a typical work day), and we had an hour commute each way (a typical commute in this area), then yes, he would be in daycare far longer. And if I were a single mom, then he'd be in from 6am to 7pm, so I could do the shopping, go to the drugstore, etc.

People do the very best they can in really hard situations, and it's pretty rare that I meet parents who don't genuinely love their kids. As a kid who grew up in foster care, maybe my standard for "neglect" is a little higher than a kid who grew up with his mom at home. However, my kid is doing great - smart, funny, kind, creative and cool. So we must be doing something right.

And btw, did you even read the rest of this thread? One woman breast fed between ochem set ups. I work until 1am sometimes so I can get time with my kid while he's awake. 3rd degree burns in the name of BREAST MILK!!! No parental slacking here, so far as I can see.

I don't think it was rude, I thought it was perfectly reasonable. I didn't say that it wouldn't be hard to raise kids and go to med school, I didn't say that I don't find it impressive that people can somehow balance studying and raising their kids, and I definitely am not asserting that they don't love their kids.

I was adopted at a young age to parents who were both working all the time. I've seen a lot of kids who's parents have unwittingly neglected them and went through whatever rationalization they could find to justify having college students (the daycare) raise their kids. Not saying that people can't do it, just throwing it out there that if you don't have a spouse who can be there at a moments notice for the kids, then that's irresponsible.

One of the kids fell and cracked his skull open last fall and the first one to come see him in the ER was the nanny (meanwhile all the kid did was ask where the nanny was... he didn't even cry for mom or dad). But maybe that's an extreme example as both of those parents were lawyers. I just felt bad for the kid, that's all.

If you can do it, more power to you. Seems like a lot of people on here had a parent who went the same route and they turned out just fine.

 

[Bevo]

This really isn't supposed to be rude, just more about my experiences from someone who doesn't have the family. I've seen a few families go through school with a ton of spousal support. I see families in my residency do it now, one has 3 children. So its very doable. Most have a stay at home parent.

I've also rotated with a mother of 4? during my pediatric rotation. She missed soo many days, came in late every day and left very very early everyday. She maybe spent 30 mins a day in the office (if she showed up). The pediatrician I worked for who was the nicest person in the world lost his temper with her. He went and told her to make a decision if it was to be a mother or a doctor, because what she was doing was unprofessional to him and the rest of us (increased our work load). She was always taking her kids to school, picking them up for one reason or another, and then having to rush out and pick them up from school.


I guess what I'm aiming at is that if you've got the family support around you and are serious about it. Then do it without reservation or second thought.
Its a rough ride and at some point you'll be counted on and given a good deal of responsibility. This will start in your clinical rotations and will vary depending on what specialty you choose.

For all of us single people out there, most of us are understanding of the situation and supportive of it, but also be considerate to the rest of us. Just because we are single doesn't mean we want to be covering you all the time or picking up your slack.

 

[beanbean]

I was a stay-at-home mom with my daughters until I started med school when they were 5 and 7. My son was born 2 weeks after I started med school. It was a bit of an adjustment transitioning to being a "working mom" with an infant, but with a very supportive husband, an amazing nanny and great family support we have all done just fine. My kids are now 12, 10 and 5. Life is definitely more stressful in residency, but my husband's business travel is much less now, thankfully.
Good luck to all the rest of the moms and dads making their way through med school and residency.

 

[Nanon]

I was a stay-at-home mom with my daughters until I started med school when they were 5 and 7. My son was born 2 weeks after I started med school. It was a bit of an adjustment transitioning to being a "working mom" with an infant, but with a very supportive husband, an amazing nanny and great family support we have all done just fine. My kids are now 12, 10 and 5. Life is definitely more stressful in residency, but my husband's business travel is much less now, thankfully.
Good luck to all the rest of the moms and dads making their way through med school and residency.

I can't tell you how much better that made me feel to read that. Thanks!

S.

 

[punkiedad]

Just because parents stay home or work 9 - 5 doesn't mean they are better parents.
There are a lotof parents who come home and ignore their kids, or worse. Passion and focus is the key, IMHO. I know when I am home, my dad hat is on, and I am focused with the kids. In a way, it gives me MORE tiem with them. I know my time is limited, so I don't waste it.

To assume that a person with a normal job, comes home and devotes all of it to doting on their kids is a farce, IMHO. a good parent is a function or more than just hours..........I put my little guy to bed every night, wake him up every morning, and I could go on and on.......My guess is, I have abetter relationship than the parent working a normal job that is distracted by many other things.

Sorry for the rant, but what matters in your family and your home is unique to you and your family. I would feel pretty bad if I know if just my being born ketp my dad or mom from pursuing ther dream.......when did kids and careers become mutually exclusive??

 

[cbrons]

I would feel pretty bad if I know if just my being born ketp my dad or mom from pursuing ther dream.......

why? it would your parents "fault" for having you in the first place. No one has a choice on whether or not to be born

 

[jinx520]

I think that single premeds/med students/physicians mean well when they say stuff like "why would you want to do the premed routine with kids when you will only neglect them?" Honestly, I do. Think about it; they have the luxury of devoting most of their time and energy toward achieving their goals. And they are looking at it from the viewpoint of "it takes me X hours a day for me to do what it takes; it probably takes parents X hours a day, too. Therefore they must be neglecting their kids. Poor kids."

However, they don't realize that parents HAVE to be more efficient with ALL of our resources--time, money, energy, whatever they are. And, we make sacrifices on a daily basis. I think most of us premed/med school parents realize we will most likely have to sacrifice being at the top of the class in order to ensure our kids feel loved and secure. And to sacrifice a little family time (but not too much) in order to succeed in school.

But being a good parent is not about being there 24/7 for every little thing your child does. Even stay-at-home parents need to do laundry, grocery shopping, and have the occasional night out in order to keep everything running smoothly. Premed/medical parents just have to be more efficient, as punkiedad said. Also, I will venture to say that most of us parents have learned to turn down the volume on that nagging inner voice that drives us to be the best, and learn how to settle for "good enough" in order to achieve balance in our lives. Which I personally think is a good life skill, especially in the career we have chosen.

 

[Crelal]

I had to wait a day to respond, as I was being an "irresponsible" parent and taking on some extra hours at my second job to make sure the heat bill is covered for next month (-20 temperatures for the next three days).

Also needed to put time and space between the comment, as I wonder if it was made b/c I am a parent or b/c I am female?

I am very goal oriented, and I am a parent. Both can occur at the same time, and my children will be better off for it. They will learn that it takes hard work to accomplish your goals, that nothing is handed to you for free, and barriers are only as unbreakable if you allow them to be.

Someone who is not a parent simply cannot understand what it entails. Babysitting/working in a daycare does not make you understand the role of a parent- it only gives you a small view into the family's world.

I remember a friend telling me that when our first was born, our entire world would change suddenly. It does; everything changes. Until you have experienced it, you really cannot judge.

And not to be rude, but I hope you don't plan on having children if you plan on going to medical school. After all, that would just be irresponsible

 

[Crelal]

So back to the original intent of the thread...

What has everyone's most stressful part of starting medical school been, from the family perspective? I am in the process of trying to find good schools, neighborhoods, and yes, daycare.

I got lucky this week when the Diversity Coordinator from the school where I have a deposit in emailed and asked if they could be of assistance. They are checking into some of these areas for me, which is helpful to get the perspective of someone who actually lives there!

Then there is putting the house on the market, and the idea of moving with a will-be 6 y.o., 4 y.o., and 2 y.o.-- the ride is seven hours

 

[sindadel]

May I suggest a portable DVD player? Maybe more than one?

My worst nightmare is getting accepted off the waitlist in August and my DH having to do all the packing and selling etc. This game is SO not geared towards people with more stuff than fits in a couple of suitcases.

 

[182690]

My wife is due in February with our first. I am just shy of interviewing (Lord willing) and hope to matriculate this fall. Any tried and true advice will be more than welcome. I am used to studying with distractions but I expect it will be hard to pull myself away from mom and baby for a while.
I am a prior military, non-trad going on thirty. We will likely have at least 1-2 more kids before I am done with residency. I would love to learn from your experiences.

Thanks

 

[Nanon]

May I suggest a portable DVD player? Maybe more than one?

My worst nightmare is getting accepted off the waitlist in August and my DH having to do all the packing and selling etc. This game is SO not geared towards people with more stuff than fits in a couple of suitcases.

OMG, you took the words right out of my mouth - literally! Without a doubt, selling the house in this market is what's keeping me up at night, and doing it at the drop of a dime? Oh, Baby Jebus.

I got into Touro - NY, and if that's where I end up going, we're definitely going to defer, which will give us time. But if I get into Wisconsin (ohpleasepleaseplease), then we might try for this year... I have no idea how we'll do it, logistically. How do you move an entire household of stuff, a 3 year old, a 1 month old, 2 cats and a car??? Seriously, I have no idea! We might already have a place to move into thanks to family friends, but what about daycare and a nanny for the baby?

How much is this going to cost? I'm already paying down the credit cards as fast as I can...

I swear, the grey hairs multiply daily.

Jinx520, your post reminds me of something that my husband and I joke about all the time. Before the baby, we thought we were total type A's, and we were wrong. Turns out, we were total slackers BB (Before Baby). AB (After Baby), we got more done than we thought was humanly possible, and mourn how much time we wasted BB. I suspect that we'll feel even worse about it AB2.

 

[cbrons]

Also needed to put time and space between the comment, as I wonder if it was made b/c I am a parent or b/c I am female?

it was because you are female. I love discriminating against woman, it gives me great pleasure. Or it could be because its still impossible for men to get pregnant... you know.. that 9 months you spend carrying a baby that requires some maternal leave to actual deliver it...

ah whatever. I think people who can balance having a family and med. school are impressive individuals. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would think getting pregnant right before med school would be something to throw up your hands in joy about... you are still going to be expected to work just as hard as that 22 year old bachelor sitting next to you, baby or not. That's all we were trying to say.

I am very goal oriented, and I am a parent. Both can occur at the same time

Where did I say that people who have kids can't be goal oriented?

and my children will be better off for it. They will learn that it takes hard work to accomplish your goals, that nothing is handed to you for free, and barriers are only as unbreakable if you allow them to be.

I don't even know what this means... so basically because you will never be around, they are going to come to the conclusion that you are out breaking barriers? I don't think babies have the capacity to reason like this. Likely you will just be missing a lot of their younger years and absconding your responsibility to raise the kid you had of your own will and accord yourself.

Someone who is not a parent simply cannot understand what it entails. Babysitting/working in a daycare does not make you understand the role of a parent- it only gives you a small view into the family's world.

So you are proving my point for me? What do you mean "what it entails"? So it entails a lot of work, I assume that is what you mean?

I remember a friend telling me that when our first was born, our entire world would change suddenly. It does; everything changes. Until you have experienced it, you really cannot judge.

Working in daycare may not have elevated me to the role of a parent but I'm smart enough to know when a kids parents are irresponsible. Letting someone else raise your kid for you = irresponsible. You can think all you want that you will be a good role model by being gone all the time, its not true.

And not to be rude, but I hope you don't plan on having children if you plan on going to medical school. After all, that would just be irresponsible

I don't plan on having children during med school. Med school is 4 years. I can have all the children I want when I have the financial resources and time to devote to them. I don't have parents who are willing to take care of a child for me nor the resources to hire someone else to do it.


bottom line: I'm sure many of the people on this forum have a family and young children when they enter med school. I'm sure many of them can be responsible parents and contribute to the class just as much as the next guy. But I don't see how anyone should be celebrating being pregnant with their fourth kid (when the other 3 are very young) right before matriculating. That's just insane and I can't be the only one who thinks that.

 

[DrYoda]

You know what? From all the different posts I've read on SDN re: stress/burnout, bitterness/lack of, and general contentedness w/ the choice to go into medicine, it seems like those that start with a family and have THEM as their top priority are the ones most likely to emerge from their training unscathed and sane. Just a thought.

I got that advice from a lawyer friend of mine once. He said professional students who define themselves only by their career are bound to be miserable.

 

[beanbean]

Why do people believe that magically you will be a better parent if you wait until after residency to have children? Financially things are easier, but the hours are still long and irregular, and medicine, with the exception of a few specialties, is usually not a "part time" gig. Please recognize that ther is no "right" time to have children. I had much more time with my children as an MS1 and MS2 than I do now. However, I still feel I am just as involved and dedicated to my kids as other parents who work full time in "regular jobs". There is an assumption made by some students that we parents study as much as our child-free classmates and therefore, since they spend hour after hour in the library, we do too and are away from our kids all this time. At least for me this was not true. I went to class (or stayed home and listened to the audio lecture) and studied from home. During MS3 and MS4 several of my call months required coverage until about 10pm and no overnight call. As an EM resident, I am working approximately 20 9-hours shifts per month plus conference/didactic time when in the ED. Off-service rotations vary from 40 hours per week (radiology) to 80 hours per week (trauma).

There are always tough choices to be made in career and family mattters. My children and husband gave me the gift of balance as a medical student; becoming completely consumed by medicine was not an option.

 

[punkiedad]

it was because you are female. I love discriminating against woman, it gives me great pleasure. Or it could be because its still impossible for men to get pregnant... you know.. that 9 months you spend carrying a baby that requires some maternal leave to actual deliver it...

ah whatever. I think people who can balance having a family and med. school are impressive individuals. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would think getting pregnant right before med school would be something to throw up your hands in joy about... you are still going to be expected to work just as hard as that 22 year old bachelor sitting next to you, baby or not. That's all we were trying to say.




Where did I say that people who have kids can't be goal oriented?



I don't even know what this means... so basically because you will never be around, they are going to come to the conclusion that you are out breaking barriers? I don't think babies have the capacity to reason like this. Likely you will just be missing a lot of their younger years and absconding your responsibility to raise the kid you had of your own will and accord yourself.



So you are proving my point for me? What do you mean "what it entails"? So it entails a lot of work, I assume that is what you mean?



Working in daycare may not have elevated me to the role of a parent but I'm smart enough to know when a kids parents are irresponsible. Letting someone else raise your kid for you = irresponsible. You can think all you want that you will be a good role model by being gone all the time, its not true.



I don't plan on having children during med school. Med school is 4 years. I can have all the children I want when I have the financial resources and time to devote to them. I don't have parents who are willing to take care of a child for me nor the resources to hire someone else to do it.


bottom line: I'm sure many of the people on this forum have a family and young children when they enter med school. I'm sure many of them can be responsible parents and contribute to the class just as much as the next guy. But I don't see how anyone should be celebrating being pregnant with their fourth kid (when the other 3 are very young) right before matriculating. That's just insane and I can't be the only one who thinks that.

Hey cbrons...........thanks for the big laugh. I am actually home from work taking care of my son today. Took a vacation day though. I hope that is OK with you and I am not hurting the nations productivity too much by taking care of my kids.....

You do not get it on many fronts:

--Why are med students the only ones that spend a lot of time with their career. I hate to say it, but 80 hours a week is not the hardest thing in the world....(I am NOT saing ed school will not be a problem....plahease). What about lawyers and corporate kool aide drinkers that work into the night. Are they irresponsible? What about the under educated or even displaced workers inthis economy that have to replace an income lost and get a second job. I am sure they rank as pretty irresponsible in your book??

--You think getting out of med school is the end of the road? FOOL.....it is only the beginning. talk to a Dr., read other posts and then decide. Everyone will tell you, once you get over the shock of how med school works, they real tough time is residency and beyond....Don't even get me started about when you are an attending and have to deal with call (though I am guessing you are going to be a 'real' responsible Dr. and go into dermatology so there is no call and perfect hours??

--you mention daycare and having other kids raise your kids is bad. hmmmm. I guess this could be the case. I will say again. It is not just being around, it is QULAITY TIME. Listen, prisoners put in their time. If you think there is no difference, think of it like this: hang out in anatomy, or biochemistry lecture and 'put in your time' while daydreaming about happy hour and x box. when it comes time for test time, see how far this 'putting in your time' gets you as compared to if you spent quality time. Think of this like focusig every second you are in those lectures, then when you come home focus on your kids for two and a half hours, read them a book, tuck them in and put them to sleep, then study and review notes till about 1:30AM. My guess is you can get a good grade on the test, and be close to your kids.

--when you execute on all fronts, what gets squeezed out is your personal time.....no going out, little sleep (5 1/2 hours is a good night) and no 'me time'.

--so, if you plan on having kids some day, you better realizethat once you get out of medschool your schedule doesn't just turn into a 40 hour work week.........does this make you planning to become irresponsible???

--by the way, my youngest is special needs, with a sever case of epilepsy. performing CPR on him at 5 weeks old while he was blue on my kitchen floor when he was 5 weeks old was what changed my life and had me focus on med school......wouldn't change it for the world. My relationship woith him is stronger than ever, and I appreciate every minute I get with him (he i napping now).....I guess this makes me even more irresponsible??

--Try opening up the curtains in your glass house.

 

[rnnpmaybe]

it was because you are female. I love discriminating against woman, it gives me great pleasure. Or it could be because its still impossible for men to get pregnant... you know.. that 9 months you spend carrying a baby that requires some maternal leave to actual deliver it...

ah whatever. I think people who can balance having a family and med. school are impressive individuals. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would think getting pregnant right before med school would be something to throw up your hands in joy about... you are still going to be expected to work just as hard as that 22 year old bachelor sitting next to you, baby or not. That's all we were trying to say.




Where did I say that people who have kids can't be goal oriented?



I don't even know what this means... so basically because you will never be around, they are going to come to the conclusion that you are out breaking barriers? I don't think babies have the capacity to reason like this. Likely you will just be missing a lot of their younger years and absconding your responsibility to raise the kid you had of your own will and accord yourself.



So you are proving my point for me? What do you mean "what it entails"? So it entails a lot of work, I assume that is what you mean?



Working in daycare may not have elevated me to the role of a parent but I'm smart enough to know when a kids parents are irresponsible. Letting someone else raise your kid for you = irresponsible. You can think all you want that you will be a good role model by being gone all the time, its not true.



I don't plan on having children during med school. Med school is 4 years. I can have all the children I want when I have the financial resources and time to devote to them. I don't have parents who are willing to take care of a child for me nor the resources to hire someone else to do it.


bottom line: I'm sure many of the people on this forum have a family and young children when they enter med school. I'm sure many of them can be responsible parents and contribute to the class just as much as the next guy. But I don't see how anyone should be celebrating being pregnant with their fourth kid (when the other 3 are very young) right before matriculating. That's just insane and I can't be the only one who thinks that.

OK, I'll play. Since when did putting a child in daycare become the equivalent of being an irresponsible parent? I too, worked in a daycare, but I don't harbor the illusion that that experience makes me an expert in childrearing. The children at daycare were happy and well-adjusted. I'd even go so far as to say they benefitted from the interaction with thier peers. As a daycare worker, I formed loving relationships with the children, but when there was a problem, they didn't want me, they wanted mommy or daddy. As a daycare worker, did I raise these children? HECK NO! The suggestion makes me laugh.

The reality is that people have to work. There are few families who can afford to have one parent stay at home for the entire life of the child, especially in this economy, (btw, is the father who works while the mother stays home with the kids NOT raising his own children?) Bills don't stop when you're a parent. Mortgage doesn't stop when you're a parent. So it is the rare family who can afford to have one parent spend 24/7 with the kids.

Even staying with the kid 24/7 does not guarantee that you will be a responsible parent. Parenting is not measured by time you spend with your kids.

You're not a parent, and it doesn't seem like you're a med student yet. How can you pass judgement? It seems like you are taking a narrow view of what it means to be a parent.

 

[jinx520]

--when you execute on all fronts, what gets squeezed out is your personal time.....no going out, little sleep (5 1/2 hours is a good night) and no 'me time'.

Amen, brother! One of my interviewers asked me what I do when I have free time. I laughed and said "Sleep!"

 

[Indymom]

bottom line: I'm sure many of the people on this forum have a family and young children when they enter med school. I'm sure many of them can be responsible parents and contribute to the class just as much as the next guy. But I don't see how anyone should be celebrating being pregnant with their fourth kid (when the other 3 are very young) right before matriculating. That's just insane and I can't be the only one who thinks that.

Wow - did you actually get accepted to med school? The future of medicine is scary when 22 year old's think they know it all.

I am very happy about this pregnancy. I have had newborns before, I know exactly what I am getting into on that front. I also have a support system all set up. I have put a lot of planning into this pregnancy so please don't call me irresponsible. You are both ignorant and rude.

I chose to have kids in my 20s because I think it is healthier. There is a huge rise in infertility among women, with the biggest culprit being waiting too long to start trying. I want to be young when my grandkids are born and I want to be around to play with my great-grandkids. In my culture, average family size is 7-8 kids per family, so having 4 kids is really not that big a deal.

Again, you are being completely culturally insensitive, you are speaking from no experience, and I shudder to think what kind of doctor you will be.

 

[cbrons]

Again, you are being completely culturally insensitive

haha.. how can I be culturally insensitive if I don't even know what culture you are? Pretty ridiculous accusation to raise.

I didn't say putting your kids in daycare was irresponsible. Leaving them there for 13 hours everyday is.

I was one of those kids who had parents who were gone all the time. They missed baseball games, school functions, on and on. My parents were both highly successful people with great careers. They missed a lot of me and my other siblings childhood though. That is something they really regret.

I was just looking out for the kids, that's all.

 

[Indymom]

haha.. how can I be culturally insensitive if I don't even know what culture you are? Pretty ridiculous accusation to raise.

I didn't say putting your kids in daycare was irresponsible. Leaivng them there for 13 is.

I was one of those kids who had parents who were gone all the time. They missed baseball games, school functions, on and on. My parents were both highly successful people with great careers. They missed a lot of me and my other siblings childhood though. That is something they really regret.

I was just looking out for the kids, that's all.

OK - so your issue isn't that I am having a new baby before matriculating. It is that I might put the baby in day care. Well, in my particular situation, that is not the case. My husband, In-Laws, sister-in-law and cousin are going to be a major part of this child's life as they have been for my other three children. We are a very family oriented family. My sister-in-law even offered to nurse this baby while I am at school since she just had hers a couple months ago (I draw the line there - not going to happen).

I think it is perfectly natural for a child to have many loving adults in their life; grandparents, aunts, uncles, and even close friends. My mother was a SAHM and she made our lives crazy because she hated her life. I am seriously not going to repeat the childhood I had for my children as you are not going to for the children you have.

Just remember that we are all coming from a different place. That is why you should never judge another until you can be in their shoes (which you really can never be, so you can never judge).

 

[cbrons]

OK - so your issue isn't that I am having a new baby before matriculating. It is that I might put the baby in day care

-------->

I didn't say putting your kids in daycare was irresponsible. Leaving them there for 13 hours everyday is.

 

[Indymom]

But I don't see how anyone should be celebrating being pregnant with their fourth kid (when the other 3 are very young) right before matriculating. That's just insane and I can't be the only one who thinks that.

Please clarify why I am insane because your reasoning is lost on me. It seems that you think I am insane because I am going to send my baby to day care for 13 hours a day, but I just told you I am not sending them to day care, yet you repeated that reason again... so what am I missing? Or what are you missing?

 

[jinx520]

cbrons, I recognize your name from other threads and I have to say I was a little surprised at what you posted on this thread. I always thought you were a level-headed and reasonable young man (if you are female, I apologize.) And you always seemed to try to be considerate of other peoples' points of view.

After reading the last few posts, I realize that you aren't being an insensitive jerk for taking the position that you have, you are advocating in your own way for the kids you see as being neglected. Especially b/c you were once one, yourself.

My favorite mentor, one whom I love and look to as a mother figure, was surprisingly very vocal against me pursuing a career in medicine. She also cited my potential neglect of my kids as a negative. Guess what? Her dad turned out to be a doctor who neglected his kids. But if a parent is going to neglect his or her child, that is a defect of the parent's personality and not a function of his or her career.

I have faith that most of the parents that frequent this forum are good parents who struggle with decisions every day regarding doing the best thing for their children. Those of us who are experienced parents are able to make snap judgement calls and also able to make sure that our kids are happy and healthy while pursuing our careers--whether it be in healthcare, law enforcement, the military, or whatever. We make every second we spend with our kids COUNT. We make every second we spend studying COUNT. We are really efficient at what we do, although there are certainly times when we feel overwhelmed. We also feel guilty for not being able to do it all, but even a stay-at-home parent can't do it all. We are not gods. Speaking for myself, even right now as a SAHM I feel guilt every day--did I choose the right vitamins? Am I letting the kids watch too much TV? But we learn to find a happy medium and wouldn't you know it, our kids won't break. They know they are loved. And they know that their parents work really hard to have a life of their own AND to do everything to ensure they are taken good care of.

Yes, it is a terrible thing when parents pursue their careers (or hobbies,for that matter) and neglect their children in the process. But if you read the posts carefully, this thread is filled with parents who are trying to ensure that that is the LAST thing that happens. It can be done, with a lot of willpower and a good support system. One small leg of which is the people on this forum.

Ultimately, the ability to make snap decisions and wisely allocate the limited resources (time, energy, money, attention) that we have will make us efficient and compassionate doctors, IMO. Not to mention avoiding burnout--who can stress over a bombed test when your toddler is trying to put lipstick on you and tells you you are beautiful? It really does help us keep everything in stride.

Cbrons, I know you are looking out for the neglected kids, but please trust that, at least for the kids of the parents on this thread, you are looking at the wrong set of parents.

 

[punkiedad]

haha.. how can I be culturally insensitive if I don't even know what culture you are? Pretty ridiculous accusation to raise.

I didn't say putting your kids in daycare was irresponsible. Leaving them there for 13 hours everyday is.

I was one of those kids who had parents who were gone all the time. They missed baseball games, school functions, on and on. My parents were both highly successful people with great careers. They missed a lot of me and my other siblings childhood though. That is something they really regret.

I was just looking out for the kids, that's all.

I had a feeling you may have been one of those kids, but did not want to accuse or get personal, though I did call you a fool....sorry.

I am perfectly comfortable with my decision. The one thing I did leave out, is that most of us on here have some sort of incredible support system to help. I doubt anyone is going to rely specifically on day care, and if so, I am sure they have their ducks in order.

It is sad when the parents are not around, but then again, many kids are raised by TV even when the parents are home. Either way, I made my point earlier, and am confident in my decision. Will I do everything correctly? Never. But I care incredibly about my family and balance. I constantly look back and evaluate where I can get better......we all evolve over time. There is NOTHING better than having one of your kids waiting at the door for you and jumping up and down!!!

I am not big on giving advice, unless asked. In your case I will because I feel it mmay have some insight. Choose to consider it, or choose to ignore it. If you are not happy with how much time you got as a child, you need to let it go, or even discuss it with your parents. I tried and just got an excuse, so I let it go. The point is, the world spins forward.....you have the choice to make it better with your kids. But, don't just assume putting your time in will make your kids model citizens that never have a problem. Our job is parents is to prepare our kids to deal with the real world and make decisions on their own, specifically because we cannot be with them every second of the day.

Other than that, if you can spend quality time every day with your kids, don't abuse them (physically or mentally), tell them you love them at least five times a day, hug them whenever you get the chance, and hold them accountable when they messup, they will know you love them.

even the above does not guarantee the perfect child.........

Best of luck, and sorry for the rant. Let's get back to topic which is supporting all the dedicated people trying to balance their lives in the hopes of helping others.

 

[cbrons]

cbrons, I recognize your name from other threads and I have to say I was a little surprised at what you posted on this thread. I always thought you were a level-headed and reasonable young man (if you are female, I apologize.) And you always seemed to try to be considerate of other peoples' points of view.

After reading the last few posts, I realize that you aren't being an insensitive jerk for taking the position that you have, you are advocating in your own way for the kids you see as being neglected. Especially b/c you were once one, yourself.

My favorite mentor, one whom I love and look to as a mother figure, was surprisingly very vocal against me pursuing a career in medicine. She also cited my potential neglect of my kids as a negative. Guess what? Her dad turned out to be a doctor who neglected his kids. But if a parent is going to neglect his or her child, that is a defect of the parent's personality and not a function of his or her career.

I have faith that most of the parents that frequent this forum are good parents who struggle with decisions every day regarding doing the best thing for their children. Those of us who are experienced parents are able to make snap judgement calls and also able to make sure that our kids are happy and healthy while pursuing our careers--whether it be in healthcare, law enforcement, the military, or whatever. We make every second we spend with our kids COUNT. We make every second we spend studying COUNT. We are really efficient at what we do, although there are certainly times when we feel overwhelmed. We also feel guilty for not being able to do it all, but even a stay-at-home parent can't do it all. We are not gods. Speaking for myself, even right now as a SAHM I feel guilt every day--did I choose the right vitamins? Am I letting the kids watch too much TV? But we learn to find a happy medium and wouldn't you know it, our kids won't break. They know they are loved. And they know that their parents work really hard to have a life of their own AND to do everything to ensure they are taken good care of.

Yes, it is a terrible thing when parents pursue their careers (or hobbies,for that matter) and neglect their children in the process. But if you read the posts carefully, this thread is filled with parents who are trying to ensure that that is the LAST thing that happens. It can be done, with a lot of willpower and a good support system. One small leg of which is the people on this forum.

Ultimately, the ability to make snap decisions and wisely allocate the limited resources (time, energy, money, attention) that we have will make us efficient and compassionate doctors, IMO. Not to mention avoiding burnout--who can stress over a bombed test when your toddler is trying to put lipstick on you and tells you you are beautiful? It really does help us keep everything in stride.

Cbrons, I know you are looking out for the neglected kids, but please trust that, at least for the kids of the parents on this thread, you are looking at the wrong set of parents.

Okay, I'm glad you at least see where I'm coming from. Your explanation sounds perfectly reasonable. I'm sure there are a lot of good parents on here who can do it all and I admire that. Good luck to all of you and who knows, maybe I'll be on here asking you all for parenting advice someday.

 

[rnnpmaybe]

I agree with what everyone prior has said - you can have all the free time in the world and still neglect your children. It's all about priorities, and if you have the right ones, I think that you can do almost anything and still be a good parent.

 

[SwimSwam]

Congratulations! I have two little kids and am graduating with my undergrad this spring. My next step is to go for a MS at UMDNJ and then med school. I feel so good seeing that you are actually about to start med school. So many people at my undergrad institution (all women & mothers) have flat out told me "forget about it, you'll never do it with kids, it's crazy" and "you'll be too old".

While I was interning at a hospital ER, at certain times I knew more than the residents about certain situations because of my age and status as a mother (Exs: One went on the internet to research what a Baby Bjorn was and another was chided by an attending for not knowing that pregnant women could suffer from ligament pain). It confirmed in my mind that age and experience does potentially enhance your general knowledge and analytical abilities.

Thank you for being you!!!

 

[Crelal]

My worst nightmare is getting accepted off the waitlist in August and my DH having to do all the packing and selling etc. This game is SO not geared towards people with more stuff than fits in a couple of suitcases.

I hear you there... I have an acceptance that I would be totally pleased with- but am in the same boat as Nanon... would love to be UWSMPH bound!

We have been going crazy trying to get painting done on the second floor while the kids sleep downstairs at night on the weekends (we work opposite shifts so we can avoid day care costs). Target date to get the house on the market is 2/1/09.

This market has me looking at the house I love so much with a microscope and finding wrong with everything. It's a great house, and I have to say it was said packing up all of the holiday stuff for the last time here, but I am so excited about the move and this fall!!!!!

IndyMom- my DH comes from a family of 11 kids- we had our son's first b-day party in his hometown, and there were, literally, over 100 people there- and they were all related to us! (DH's mom has 7 siblings, his dad 6) I come from a small family and love big families- there is definitely more chaos, but everyone is there to help each other

 

[2blessed]

i just wanted to say thanks 2 everyone who has written on this thread. its been very encouraging to me as I am expecting my first baby this March and am starting med school in August. Most schools I've gone to have been very nice about talking about my pregnacy but some places have been more cold. I think maybe its because i'm 22 and going to med school straight out of undergrad. I'm married but sometimes people really look at me weird for being pregnant and married so young.

But to me, family is waaay more important than a career. I would rather be young, married, have many kids and go through med school with less than perfect grades than be 40 yrs old with a super career, lots of job success, a mansion, but no family or spouse to share it with. but everyones different and that is just me. I LOVE FAMILY.

anyways, i needed some advice for those of you already in med school with kids. My husband will be working when med school starts (full time- maybe part time) and obviously I will be busy as well. My mom is extremely supportive and wants to help me as much as she can. One med school i'm considering is only ~1 hour away from where my mom lives and she's willing to come help babysit very often. (almost like a nanny). she might stay for 2-3 days during the week at a time. my question is... should she get her own apartment if she plans to be there for such long periods at a time? or should she just stay with my husband and I. I don't know... I think that would be a little weird. it would make more sense for her to stay with us wouldn't it..... it would really save on expenses. she would basically be like a live in nanny. but would that be weird for her to live with us? or should i snap out of it and be greatful for her eliminating the daycare costs and being so supportive?

also, how would that work with financial aid. could i still take out loans for childcare and just pay my mom? thanks.

 

[jinx520]

it would really save on expenses. she would basically be like a live in nanny. but would that be weird for her to live with us? or should i snap out of it and be greatful for her eliminating the daycare costs and being so supportive?

also, how would that work with financial aid. could i still take out loans for childcare and just pay my mom? thanks.

I love families in general, too, and my family in particular. I'm not in med school yet (please, Lord, let me get an acceptance this cycle!), but my mom stayed with us while I was an undergrad. She eventually ended up getting an apartment of her own. My advice is to let her stay with you temporarily with the understanding that you will eventually look for an apartment for her. If the family dynamic gets too stressful with her living w/ you, find an apartment sooner rather than later. But if it goes well, you can put it off indefinitely and save the money. Don't worry about it being weird having your mom living there, lots of families do it.

As far as the childcare, I'm going to assume the issues are the same as in undergrad. You can take out loans for childcare (they even adjust your budget so that you are eligible for more financial aid), but at least in my school you need to have a licensed caregiver. They have a form on which you report the state license number which you need to turn in to complete your FA application. If you want to pay your mom, there is the issue of getting her certified with the state (I don't think it's too much trouble for an in-home caregiver, though) and then also there is the tax issue to consider. She would be considered your employee for tax purposes, which means you would have to withold and file FICA (which is not really that big of a deal, but it's a tedious chore.) For all that trouble, you will be able to claim childcare expenses on your income tax.

Or, you could just give her money w/o going through all that, but then the school will most likely not consider childcare as an allowable expense w/o a licensed caregiver. And your FA package will probably be smaller. But then you don't have to worry about taxes.

Take everything I just said w/ a grain of salt, b/c I'm not a tax expert and I'm not even sure of the tax changes for the year. Nor do I know of the childcare policy at your school; that's just how my undergrad school handled things. You could always call the FA office at the school and ask them about it. Good luck, and I hope that helps.

 

[2blessed]

wow. thanks for the great insight and info. seems like its easier to just avoid the whole tax and employer thing! lol. but i do have another question, let's say i only put my baby in daycare 1-2 days a week. Does the financial aid office ask how many days a week you put your child in daycare or can you increase your financial aid by a certain set amount simply because your child is in daycare period (regardless of how many days a week)???? basically, can you get the same financial aid increase by putting your kid in daycare only 1-2x a week versus all 5 days??? or does the aid increase based on the number of days per week? thanks!!!

 

[jinx520]

I think the standard budget for financial aid is readjusted for childcare according to how many total hours/how much money you spend on daycare per week. But there is a cap on how much they will adjust your budget by.

 

[sindadel]

There is also not as much difference in cost between part-time and full-time daycare as you might think because they have to have their ratios all worked out anyway.

 

[2blessed]

ok thanks. i'm just wondering cuz i may put the baby in daycare less first semester and a little more during second semester when he's older. i was just wondering how that works out with financial aid packages which are usually set for the whole year. but yeah, thanks a lot!!! i'm actually excited to start med school with a family. i think it'll help me get through. and also, many med students i talk to say they have lots of time for extracurriculars and to still "have a life". I look at it like this... my family will be my extracurricular activity so it should all work out great!!! lol

 

[AustinMD2B]

I'm a dad of 3 beautiful children and still have 2 & 1/2 years before I apply to med school. Someone said it on here before, but I agree that in 10 years I'll be 10 years older. Might as well be 10 years older and a doctor, too.

 

[Indymom]

I'm 40 and I have 9 kids. I was asked "how do you manage school and taking care of your kids" by an interviewer & I told her "the same way working women with kids manage." Also, the way my kids ended up being spaced out helps, b/c each of them has another child close in age. It helps when I'm doing other stuff like housework or studying.

I just reread this and I am so impressed. What year are you in medical school?

 

[jinx520]

I just reread this and I am so impressed. What year are you in medical school?

**SIGH** I'm not in med school yet--I applied this cycle, but won't hear how I did until March. I only applied in-state and it's semi-non-rolling, if you can imagine that. I just finished my master's though, right before I applied.

 

[Indymom]

**SIGH** I'm not in med school yet--I applied this cycle, but won't hear how I did until March. I only applied in-state and it's semi-non-rolling, if you can imagine that. I just finished my master's though, right before I applied.

How old are your kids and what does your husband do? Good luck with this cycle.

 

[jinx520]

My kids' ages are: 19, 16, 15, 12, 11, 9, 7, 2, 1, as of right now. Add a year for how old they'll be when I (God willing!) matriculate. Hubby is a mechanic.

 

[jinx520]

How old are your kids and what does your husband do? Good luck with this cycle.

Oh, yeah, thanks for the well wishes--how rude of me not to acknowledge!

 

[Indymom]

My kids' ages are: 19, 16, 15, 12, 11, 9, 7, 2, 1, as of right now. Add a year for how old they'll be when I (God willing!) matriculate. Hubby is a mechanic.

Then you are going to be fine! You have 4 or 5 kids that can help with the babies. Even if you have to "pay" them to babysit, at least they are being watched by siblings who love them. My oldest will be 7 and he plans to help with the new baby, and I plan to let him. Of course, he won't be able to do much, but I think he can handle changing some wet diapers and spoon feeding mashed potatoes.

 

[jinx520]

Except for the oldest, they came in "pairs". Everyone has a buddy that they are close in age to (and really emotionally bonded to.) The babies are really spoiled. I have the house chores divided into "zones" & each kid 'cept Miss College (and the babies) is responsible for their zone. Everyone fights over "Baby Helper", which is basically to get them their sippies, change diapers, and generally keep them occupied when I'm cooking or studying.

 

[Indymom]

I am from a family of 6 and we were also born in pairs. Also, my parents named us with corresponding names (oldest Girl starts with an N, then Boy C, then Boy M followed by the next group of Boy with N, Girl with C and Girl with M) so we kind of had a big brother/sister little brother/sister thing going on too. This is why I think large families are so amazing, the dynamics really deepen the relationships that each person has. We are all grown now (ages 36 - 28) but we still maintain those bonds. I am closest with my pair and my brother whose name starts with my letter.

This is probably a really confusing post, lol. Anyway, I think its great that all the siblings help out. Not only does it teach them responsibility now, it will also provide them with the tools for functional relationships in the future. Their spouses are gonna love them!

Keep me posted on your acceptance, I am cheering for you. Which state are you in by the way?

 

[jinx520]

Indymom, good luck with school! I know you'll do fine; sound like you have an excellent support system. Strangely enough, I understood exactly what you were saying about the naming of your siblings. I'm in NM, but if I don't get in this cycle I'm going to apply more broadly this year. I would really hate to uproot my family for a strange place, though.