40 (and counting) Reasons Not To Join

[pgg]

I disagree that the quality of military residency training is on a decline.

Agreed, and another thing to keep in mind is the everpresent SDN Bias.

Everyone student on SDN has 250 Step 1 scores, high honors on clinical rotations, LORs from world renowned leaders in the field, a chiseled jaw (if male) or stunning beauty (if female), keen wit, a good eye for horseflesh, and an enviable track record of universally successful fishing and/or Vegas trips. Naturally, first-hand experience with top tier residency programs is a given.

Are military residencies top tier? No. Then again, neither are 90%+ of civilian residencies.

Are military fellowships top tier? Well, maybe - most of them are FTOS at civilian institutions and are as good as the candidate's qualifications.

The quality of HPSP graduates hit a nadir about 5 years ago (naturally, not counting any of the brilliant and handsome SDN grads of that era), but they have measurably improved since then. To an extent, that cohort's lack of excellence may have reflected less well on the .mil residency programs, as measured by board pass rates, but whether the programs themselves were better or worse is another issue.

If anything, the loss of pathology and patients Tricare inflicted has lessened or even started to reverse, given some of the aggressive reclaiming that has gone on the last couple years. MTFs are pulling retirees back into the system, driven by money saving concerns of course, but a pleasant side effect is that some departments are able to cherrypick the cases they want and bring more business and more pathology back to the .mil side.

My program was solid (again, not top tier ... but solid) and effectively overcame case load shortcomings with guest rotations at other institutions. As a resident I spent time working with residents at several other programs, ranging from highly regarded to genuinely top tier, and I never really felt outclassed. One could surely do a lot worse than a .mil program. Then again, perhaps that's just my SDN Bias showing.


Skill rot after training is another issue. It's a problem that affects me and one that I have managed (with difficulty and variable success) via moonlighting. One of my ongoing concerns is that moonlighting for skill maintenance and extra income is forever at my CO's discretion.

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[BigNavyPedsGuy]

My program was solid (again, not top tier ... but solid) and effectively overcame case load shortcomings with guest rotations at other institutions. As a resident I spent time working with residents at several other programs, ranging from highly regarded to genuinely top tier, and I never really felt outclassed. One could surely do a lot worse than a .mil program. Then again, perhaps that's just my SDN Bias showing.

we outsourced and I felt like our graduates were better, so I see what your saying to a point.

But if you have to outsource to get caseloads, doesn't that automatically make your program not as good as the one you're outsourcing too? Example: who's a better ER doc at handling trauma, they guy who spent 9 months during his 3 year residency doing out-rotations at a trauma site, or the guy who trained at a trauma site and saw trauma every single shift for 3 years?

I think the new ACGME guidelines also hurt small programs out of proportion to the big ones. Most military programs are small. I've heard Peds described as a "big" residency class. My class had 8 residents. A medium sized children's hospital has 20 residents/class. It's much easier to establish night float and cross cover systems with a big pool of people to draw from. If you have less pathology to start with, what learning is there in the night shift vs at a big academic center?

 

[bobbyseal]

I'm curious about number 24. Are you able to cite specific examples without compromising yourself?

I have seen screening guidelines ignored in order to do a more "thorough" workup just to make sure... Sorry for being vague, but it's definitely occurring.

 

[navdoc47]

Bump - reason #45 written

 

[bricktamland]

As a consequence of CME funding effectively being discontinued, who else has received the message from your specialty leaders encouraging us to seek CME through inexpensive sources, such as through on-line CME? Well, I had some free time today at work, so I thought I would try to make effective use of my time and do some online CME. Well, guess what. Turns out I can't even complete the online CME because the Internet Explorer software the hospital refuses to upgrade is too out-of-date. Perhaps the message is that I should be doing other more worthwhile activities instead of the mandatory CME I need to maintain my license. . . . like polishing my boots.

 

[colbgw02]

As a consequence of CME funding effectively being discontinued, who else has received the message from your specialty leaders encouraging us to seek CME through inexpensive sources, such as through on-line CME? Well, I had some free time today at work, so I thought I would try to make effective use of my time and do some online CME. Well, guess what. Turns out I can't even complete the online CME because the Internet Explorer software the hospital refuses to upgrade is too out-of-date. Perhaps the message is that I should be doing other more worthwhile activities instead of the mandatory CME I need to maintain my license. . . . like polishing my boots.

A colleague of mine recently returned to work after a couple weeks of leave over the holidays. He made sure his APEQS was updated before he left. He logged into the computer system upon returning to get a giant box stating that his HIPPA training is expired. If he didn't complete the training, then his ability to log into the system (i.e. work) would be revoked. Confused and knowing that his training was updated prior to vacation, he checked to find that it was now listed in APEQS as being 38 days overdue. When he attempted to complete the online training, the version of Java needed to complete the training was insufficient, and - of course - it takes a system administrator to upgrade any software. Unbelievable, yet typical.

 

[deuist]

A colleague of mine recently returned to work after a couple weeks of leave over the holidays. He made sure his APEQS was updated before he left. He logged into the computer system upon returning to get a giant box stating that his HIPPA training is expired. If he didn't complete the training, then his ability to log into the system (i.e. work) would be revoked. Confused and knowing that his training was updated prior to vacation, he checked to find that it was now listed in APEQS as being 38 days overdue. When he attempted to complete the online training, the version of Java needed to complete the training was insufficient, and - of course - it takes a system administrator to upgrade any software. Unbelievable, yet typical.

I'm going through my mandatory pre-deployment training now. ADLS is only available on base and cannot be accessed from home. However, some of the modules will not load because IE and Flash are out-dated. Consequently, I cannot complete my training prior to deployment. I wonder if they just won't deploy me instead.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

As a consequence of CME funding effectively being discontinued, who else has received the message from your specialty leaders encouraging us to seek CME through inexpensive sources, such as through on-line CME? Well, I had some free time today at work, so I thought I would try to make effective use of my time and do some online CME. Well, guess what. Turns out I can't even complete the online CME because the Internet Explorer software the hospital refuses to upgrade is too out-of-date. Perhaps the message is that I should be doing other more worthwhile activities instead of the mandatory CME I need to maintain my license. . . . like polishing my boots.

Ask for pTDY to stay at home and get CME. Some departments at my MTF have done this. It won't cost much to DoD (besides the opportunity cost of your lost RVUs which some nurse commander will rant about).

 

[futuredoc331]

Havent read the whole thread, but wanted to add

"fighting Al Qaeda while our government sends them 100s of millions of dollars and weapons."

This is probably the most important.

 

[idq1i]

How about a renewed "Surge" to combat APEQS delinquency, MEDPROS compliance, leave compliance, uniform standards, daily PT... Got to love the garrison environment. Have to constantly create new rules to keep the nurses, PTs, podiatrists and chiropractors in high command employed.

 

[pgg]

I've got a (c) 2006 version of Internet Explorer on my office computer. I especially enjoy doing my annual "Information Assurance" training which lectures me about only using the most current software for security reasons. Somehow I always end up doing that "annual" training multiple times per year but that's a different gripe.

At LEAST 10x per day my computer will grind to a halt, thrash the hard drive for 30 or 40 seconds while everything is frozen. A cold boot and login takes nearly 20 minutes. I assume this is because it's not spec'd to handle the overhead off all the "security" crap installed on the system.

I have never been particularly impressed with military/federal IT.

Havent read the whole thread, but wanted to add

"fighting Al Qaeda while our government sends them 100s of millions of dollars and weapons."

This is probably the most important.

Uh, yeah, OK, thanks for your contribution.

 

[bustbones26]

Agreed, and another thing to keep in mind is the everpresent SDN Bias.

Everyone student on SDN has 250 Step 1 scores, high honors on clinical rotations, LORs from world renowned leaders in the field, a chiseled jaw (if male) or stunning beauty (if female), keen wit, a good eye for horseflesh, and an enviable track record of universally successful fishing and/or Vegas trips. Naturally, first-hand experience with top tier residency programs is a given.
.

I did not do any of those things. But I did beat the Worlds' Most Interesting Man in an arm wrestling match.. No matter, we had a Dos Equis afterwards.

I do agree with what you are saying. I too feel that GME programs are solid. Not top tier, but solid. I do not think most would complain about their training. It's what happens after training.

 

[futuredoc331]

I've got a (c) 2006 version of Internet Explorer on my office computer. I especially enjoy doing my annual "Information Assurance" training which lectures me about only using the most current software for security reasons. Somehow I always end up doing that "annual" training multiple times per year but that's a different gripe.

At LEAST 10x per day my computer will grind to a halt, thrash the hard drive for 30 or 40 seconds while everything is frozen. A cold boot and login takes nearly 20 minutes. I assume this is because it's not spec'd to handle the overhead off all the "security" crap installed on the system.

I have never been particularly impressed with military/federal IT.




Uh, yeah, OK, thanks for your contribution.

How was my response not a solid contribution?

There are broader factors in play when someone joins the military than just their specific job and duties.

I will not turn this political, but what I stated is something that should be thought about.

I'd also add that the chance of getting sent to Afghanistan is very high. What we are actually doing there really needs to be thought about. Ask the enlisted folk who have been. Many of them are helping guard opium fields and paying off drug lords.

 

[pgg]

How was my response not a solid contribution?

Because you're a pre-med throwing in your political tinfoilery $.02 to a conversation about the shortcomings and challenges of being a physician in the military.

Your speculation about odds of deployment to a war zone that is actively downsizing isn't any better.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I have one. When I raised the point that we can't really be expected to resuscitate sick newborns without a working machine for ABGs (more specifically Capillary blood gas in this instance), my XO responded with, "Do you really need that technology? What do they do in developing countries?" I'd like to point out that I'm at a CONUS hospital....

 

[futuredoc331]

Because you're a pre-med throwing in your political tinfoilery $.02 to a conversation about the shortcomings and challenges of being a physician in the military.

Your speculation about odds of deployment to a war zone that is actively downsizing isn't any better.

Except for the fact that I am a military veteran with half a brain and a clear view of what is going on in the world.

When entering the military current and future political environments need to be taken into consideration. Any advice to the contrary is dangerous.

A new military physician needs to understand that they may very well be sent to any of a dozen countries in the Middle East and or Africa where we are fighting the same groups we are funding.

Serving in areas that a great deal of people feel we should not be sticking out nose in.

As a physician they may be required to perform life saving measures on someone who just tried to kill all of their fellow soldiers.

The point is there are more serious issues than whether or not they have to sit through some boring computer based trainings, have to take a pt test, and wear a damn reflective belt.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

^You're arguing with people that are veterans and have deployed. Once we're in that position we can point out what bothers us most. We've earned that right.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

..

 

[colbgw02]

Except for the fact that I am a military veteran with half a brain and a clear view of what is going on in the world.

When entering the military current and future political environments need to be taken into consideration. Any advice to the contrary is dangerous.

A new military physician needs to understand that they may very well be sent to any of a dozen countries in the Middle East and or Africa where we are fighting the same groups we are funding.

Serving in areas that a great deal of people feel we should not be sticking out nose in.

As a physician they may be required to perform life saving measures on someone who just tried to kill all of their fellow soldiers.

The point is there are more serious issues than whether or not they have to sit through some boring computer based trainings, have to take a pt test, and wear a damn reflective belt.

That's cool. Start a thread about it. In this thread, we point out apolitical downsides of military medicine. It would be inappropriate for active duty personnel to make overtly political statements - on the internet or otherwise. You should know that, unless that was stored in the half of your brain that's missing. So, take it elsewhere.

 

[futuredoc331]

That's cool. Start a thread about it. In this thread, we point out apolitical downsides of military medicine. It would be inappropriate for active duty personnel to make overtly political statements - on the internet or otherwise. You should know that, unless that was stored in the half of your brain that's missing. So, take it elsewhere.

Wasn't meant to take up any more than one post. So a thread will not be necessary.

A valid downside was presented and was answered with a dumb remark. So I questioned it. There is no need to go any further.

Maybe we can get a mod to change the title to 40 apolitical reasons am counting ??

 

[Qurmish]

A valid downside was presented and was answered with a dumb remark.

Thanks for the lark and good luck with the online pre-med classes.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Nice. Allen, you know that's a terrible plan, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[futuredoc331]

Thanks for the lark and good luck with the online pre-med classes.

Oh, that's cute. A grown man picking through my past posts to find something to criticize.

I thought we were mature adult service members discussing the downsides to the military.

I will bow out now. You all have fun.

God bless.

 

[pgg]

I haven't picked through your old posts Allen, so maybe you're aware and have weighed everything in your decision, but

Allen, you know that's a terrible plan, right?

In all seriousness, this is a topic that comes up a lot here on the milmed forum. Maybe even more often than it does on the pre-allo forum, because so many people are trying to knock out prereqs and bachelor degrees while on active duty.

There are some real risks and downsides for premeds trying to get into quality med schools via online or distance coursework. Sometimes it's the only option given your spot in life, family commitments, job/financial issues, etc. Good luck whatever you do. But most are going to have trouble with that path and end up either giving up on the dream, or settling for marginal (and typically very very expensive) schools, or needing post-bachelor work at real institutions to have a shot at admission. It's a lot of time and effort that frequently doesn't pay off.

SDN is full of "exception stories" that imply nonstandard methods routinely work out. Be real careful taking encouragement and "I know a guy who did that" kind of posts seriously.

They're only electrons from strangers who don't know you. Just like this post.

 

[bustbones26]

Oh, that's cute. A grown man picking through my past posts to find something to criticize.

I thought we were mature adult service members discussing the downsides to the military.

I will bow out now. You all have fun.

God bless.

Sigh! Look, I think that most doctors here agree that if Michael J Fox showed up with his Delorian and told us what would happen in the future, we would have avoided milmed. It is not because we do not love our country, not because we are not patriotic, no because we had to wear a uniform and deploy, it is because milmed sometimes can be a barrier to fostering a prosperous career in medicine.

At the end of the day, it is all about reason not to join due to negative impact on medical career.

 

[Qurmish]

Oh, that's cute. A grown man picking through my past posts to find something to criticize.

I thought we were mature adult service members discussing the downsides to the military.

I will bow out now. You all have fun.

God bless.

Yeah, I'm really not concerned about that. I was surprised by your level of lunacy and how unreasonable your responses were, so I was curious about your general perspective. I was also enlisted and did the pre-med thing as a non-traditional, so I am often interested in seeing how other people have found the right path for themselves while balancing other responsibilities. I saw that you were doing core classes online, which demonstrates a pattern of very poor judgement.

To anyone who was prior service and was force-fed the belief that for-profit online community college degrees measure up to legitimate 4 year institutions: jump ship now. I had personal experience with medical school admissions scrutinizing and dismissing the 30 odd liberal arts credits from a CC that I took to make cutoff for E-5. It frequently required some explanation as to what those credits were and why I pursued them. Best case scenario you consider it a waste of time/energy/money. No matter how you swing it the education is just simply less rigorous and of lower quality online and through community colleges. You will severely limit your choice for school and your science background will be considerably weaker compared to the rest of your cohort.

 

[futuredoc331]

Yeah, I'm really not concerned about that. I was surprised by your level of lunacy and how unreasonable your responses were, so I was curious about your general perspective. I was also enlisted and did the pre-med thing as a non-traditional, so I am often interested in seeing how other people have found the right path for themselves while balancing other responsibilities. I saw that you were doing core classes online, which demonstrates a pattern of very poor judgement.

To anyone who was prior service and was force-fed the belief that for-profit online community college degrees measure up to legitimate 4 year institutions: jump ship now. I had personal experience with medical school admissions scrutinizing and dismissing the 30 odd liberal arts credits from a CC that I took to make cutoff for E-5. It frequently required some explanation as to what those credits were and why I pursued them. Best case scenario you consider it a waste of time/energy/money. No matter how you swing it the education is just simply less rigorous and of lower quality online and through community colleges. You will severely limit your choice for school and your science background will be considerably weaker compared to the rest of your cohort.

Leaving one factual comment regarding our government's decision to fund known terrorists amounts to lunacy?

I do hope your not a a shrink.

In regards to your comments regarding my path of education, I hope you don't jump to every conclusion as quickly as you did here.

I understand your concern with online education and appreciate your input if it was genuine although it felt like an attack.

I have done my due diligence and always recommend others to do the same when considering anything other than a 4 year university.

I have a family and a full time job. My wife works when I do not so I have to watch my daughter. I have no other choice, but to take courses outside of a 4 year uni. The delivery of a few of my lower level sciences is distance learning, but is provided through a regionally accredited community college and not a degree mill. I will be taking all upper levels and finishingy degree through a brick and mortar university.

The path is not ideal, but it is the absolute best I can do. Providing for my family while doing what I have to do is great judgement.

On top of taking the courses mentioned above I have spent nearly all of my free time between semesters going through science courses on MIT and Berkley's open courseware. I understand fully that I will have to have a superb score on the mcat, but once I nail it my classes will be less of a factor.

Again, I appreciate your input and others. I in no way came here to be a wise ass or a know it all. I made one comment, which was on topic and based on facts, and was responded to with sarcasm.

 

[futuredoc331]

Sigh! Look, I think that most doctors here agree that if Michael J Fox showed up with his Delorian and told us what would happen in the future, we would have avoided milmed. It is not because we do not love our country, not because we are not patriotic, no because we had to wear a uniform and deploy, it is because milmed sometimes can be a barrier to fostering a prosperous career in medicine.

At the end of the day, it is all about reason not to join due to negative impact on medical career.

This entire thread is about downsides to joining the military. Mine was no different.

At the end of the day it's all about giving the future prospects all of the info they need this way they don't wish for a time machine in the future.

You guys provided job specifics because that is your area. I wouldn't dare guess about that, but I had other input and provided it.

Now it's up to them to make their own decision.

 

[futuredoc331]

I haven't picked through your old posts Allen, so maybe you're aware and have weighed everything in your decision, but


In all seriousness, this is a topic that comes up a lot here on the milmed forum. Maybe even more often than it does on the pre-allo forum, because so many people are trying to knock out prereqs and bachelor degrees while on active duty.

There are some real risks and downsides for premeds trying to get into quality med schools via online or distance coursework. Sometimes it's the only option given your spot in life, family commitments, job/financial issues, etc. Good luck whatever you do. But most are going to have trouble with that path and end up either giving up on the dream, or settling for marginal (and typically very very expensive) schools, or needing post-bachelor work at real institutions to have a shot at admission. It's a lot of time and effort that frequently doesn't pay off.

SDN is full of "exception stories" that imply nonstandard methods routinely work out. Be real careful taking encouragement and "I know a guy who did that" kind of posts seriously.

They're only electrons from strangers who don't know you. Just like this post.

I truly appreciate the genuine response.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

.....I will bow out now.....

This phrase. I think it does not mean what you think it means.

 

[Qurmish]

This entire thread is about downsides to joining the military. Mine was no different.

At the end of the day it's all about giving the future prospects all of the info they need this way they don't wish for a time machine in the future.

You guys provided job specifics because that is your area. I wouldn't dare guess about that, but I had other input and provided it.

Now it's up to them to make their own decision.

What I meant by unreasonable is that you truly don't seem to see that there is a difference between saying, "the emergency medical record system is garbage" and "Obama and Bin Laden go golfing every Thursday in New Hampshire." The comments made here are directly about what you call "job specifics" because that's really the only thing worth talking about in an environment like this. People are going to have a wide array of political views that are not going to be shaken by reading hyperbolic and paranoid comments on a message board. In fact, it is probably true that many would interpret your statements as a kind of aggression because the demographics of people spending time in a space called "Military Medicine" would clearly have a predisposition towards being involved in the military. It is unreasonable to think that anyone would take such politically charged comments seriously given the context.

Leaving one factual comment regarding our government's decision to fund known terrorists amounts to lunacy?

I understand your concern with online education and appreciate your input if it was genuine although it felt like an attack.

I have done my due diligence and always recommend others to do the same when considering anything other than a 4 year university.

I have a family and a full time job. My wife works when I do not so I have to watch my daughter. I have no other choice, but to take courses outside of a 4 year uni. The delivery of a few of my lower level sciences is distance learning, but is provided through a regionally accredited community college and not a degree mill. I will be taking all upper levels and finishingy degree through a brick and mortar university.

The path is not ideal, but it is the absolute best I can do. Providing for my family while doing what I have to do is great judgement.

I am not going to say that having a family and going to a brick and mortar school full time is easy, but people make that sacrifice. I knew a few vets at an ivy that were doing it with more kids and no family support. It is an investment in yourself that you need to commit to 100% or not at all. You'll get to the end and realize that you have compromised a lot of your opportunities in the path getting there if you don't. Just take a quick glimpse at some of the admission statistics for M.D. and good D.O. schools. The competition is fierce and it's a mistake to do anything that would compromise your application. I see how it's easy to think that you can be the exception to the rule, but it is just a better idea on all fronts to make the necessary sacrifices.

 

[futuredoc331]

What I meant by unreasonable is that you truly don't seem to see that there is a difference between saying, "the emergency medical record system is garbage" and "Obama and Bin Laden go golfing every Thursday in New Hampshire." The comments made here are directly about what you call "job specifics" because that's really the only thing worth talking about in an environment like this. People are going to have a wide array of political views that are not going to be shaken by reading hyperbolic and paranoid comments on a message board. In fact, it is probably true that many would interpret your statements as a kind of aggression because the demographics of people spending time in a space called "Military Medicine" would clearly have a predisposition towards being involved in the military. It is unreasonable to think that anyone would take such politically charged comments seriously given the context.

Except this is a thread for prospective service members. Had it been titled "40 reasons why we hate being involved with military medicine" id see your point.

But it's not. It is reasons not to join the military. My reason is certainly one to consider. If your political ideologies disagree you could have just let it pass.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Boy, you are going to be fun on the wards.

 

[Shikima]

I'll have to echo NavyDoc's sentiments in working for the VA. Just don't.....

 

[pgg]

I'll have to echo NavyDoc's sentiments in working for the VA. Just don't.....

That blanket statement isn't warranted. There's huge variability in the VA from place to place.

 

[notdeadyet]

That blanket statement isn't warranted. There's huge variability in the VA from place to place.

Ditto this. There are VA's that are active components of top academic medical centers (WLVAMC and UCLA, PAVA and Stanford, and SFVAMC and UCSF come to mind for the west coast). These VA's have modalities, opportunities, and faculty that you won't find at almost any community medical center.

Can't generalize VAs. They are very different from one to the next.

 

[Shikima]

Disagree. So far, the 2 VA center's I've worked at haven't been very supportive environments.

 

[pgg]

Disagree. So far, the 2 VA center's I've worked at haven't been very supportive environments.

What are you disagreeing with? That there are no outstanding VA hospitals, because your N=2 weren't "supportive environments"?

 

[bustbones26]

Except this is a thread for prospective service members. Had it been titled "40 reasons why we hate being involved with military medicine" id see your point.

But it's not. It is reasons not to join the military. My reason is certainly one to consider. If your political ideologies disagree you could have just let it pass.

I hate the military? I hate military medicine? What difference does it make? Oops, sorry to go Hillary Clinton on you. This thread about not joining the military is on a MEDICAL FORUM. I seriously doubt that some 17 year old soon to be high school graduate that is interested in enlisting is reading this forum.

 

[colbgw02]

Hahaha. Yeah, we might have thought the whole medical part of the equation was implied.

 

[Shikima]

What are you disagreeing with? That there are no outstanding VA hospitals, because your N=2 weren't "supportive environments"?

Personal experience in the VA system where metrics matter, not good Vet care. What's your VA experience?

 

[futuredoc331]

I hate the military? I hate military medicine? What difference does it make? Oops, sorry to go Hillary Clinton on you. This thread about not joining the military is on a MEDICAL FORUM. I seriously doubt that some 17 year old soon to be high school graduate that is interested in enlisting is reading this forum.

Way to derail the thread again. So you're saying military medicine is not at all the same as being in the military ? You're not actually military as a military physician and nothing that involves the organization as a whole has anything to do with you?

22 year olds considering military scholarships for med school should only be concerned with not getting all 30 days of leave or not having the best residencies? They are completely exempt from the issues that their slightly younger counterparts will deal with when enlisting?

 

[futuredoc331]

Hahaha. Yeah, we might have thought the whole medical part of the equation was implied.

Do you practice medicine with such a narrow view?

Military medicine is in fact part of the military. Someone considering joining should be well informed on the military part as well as the medical part.

 

[colbgw02]

Do you practice medicine with such a narrow view?

No, but luckily when I practice medicine, I don't have to deal with non-physicians spouting their political beliefs. So, as shocking as this may be to you, my behavior in the hospital is not indicative of how I act on a message board when dealing with the ill-informed internet warrior.

Military medicine is in fact part of the military. Someone considering joining should be well informed on the military part as well as the medical part.

Sure, and if they'd like to learn about it, then they'd go a message board not about medicine that doesn't contain a sub-forum entitled "military medicine".

Again, this forum is filled largely with active duty people. If the point of a message board is to engender discussion and convey information, then this is the wrong forum to discuss military issues that have even a whiff of political undertones. People won't respond candidly or at all, and thus the point is lost. I'm sure such a forum exists for former servicemembers who are free to express themselves as they wish, but this isn't it. If it doesn't exist, then perhaps you've found your calling.

And to answer your questions to bustbones. No, military medicine is not like the rest of the military. Even other professional corps, like JAG officers and nurses, are much closer to the "real" military than the medical corps is. If people are looking to this forum for general information about military service, then they're looking in the wrong place.

 

[bustbones26]

Way to derail the thread again. So you're saying military medicine is not at all the same as being in the military ? You're not actually military as a military physician and nothing that involves the organization as a whole has anything to do with you?

No sir it is not! Just because we have to properly wear a uniform, salute people that outrank us, deploy, and meet height/weight standards, etc. etc. there is a VAST difference between being an officer that is a physian versus the other guys. Any complaints that you see on this forum are the shared experience of physicians in the military. You have a lot to learn.

Again, I doubt that a 17 year old soon to be high school graduate wanting to enlist is reading through this forum.

 

[futuredoc331]

No sir it is not! Just because we have to properly wear a uniform, salute people that outrank us, deploy, and meet height/weight standards, etc. etc. there is a VAST difference between being an officer that is a physian versus the other guys. Any complaints that you see on this forum are the shared experience of physicians in the military. You have a lot to learn.

Again, I doubt that a 17 year old soon to be high school graduate wanting to enlist is reading through this forum.

You at still in the military!! The political issues that involve the military and our government effect a military physician!

This thread is "40 reasons and counting not to join". People who are thinking about joining will be reading this thread. That surely isn't rocket science.

Our mission as a whole is just as important as your other gripes.

Again, if you wanted a thread strictly to bitch and complain about your job you should have named it something else. Instead it is named in such a way that prospective military candidates will read it . This includes kids who are fresh out of college and have never been enlisted.

Now go ahead and drop it. You keep derailing the thread.

 

[futuredoc331]

No, but luckily when I practice medicine, I don't have to deal with non-physicians spouting their political beliefs. So, as shocking as this may be to you, my behavior in the hospital is not indicative of how I act on a message board when dealing with the ill-informed internet warrior.

Sure, and if they'd like to learn about it, then they'd go a message board not about medicine that doesn't contain a sub-forum entitled "military medicine".

Again, this forum is filled largely with active duty people. If the point of a message board is to engender discussion and convey information, then this is the wrong forum to discuss military issues that have even a whiff of political undertones. People won't respond candidly or at all, and thus the point is lost. I'm sure such a forum exists for former servicemembers who are free to express themselves as they wish, but this isn't it. If it doesn't exist, then perhaps you've found your calling.

And to answer your questions to bustbones. No, military medicine is not like the rest of the military. Even other professional corps, like JAG officers and nurses, are much closer to the "real" military than the medical corps is. If people are looking to this forum for general information about military service, then they're looking in the wrong place.

You have not been asked to march in uniform and express your political beliefs. As a matter of fact, you didn't have to say a damn thing. You could have ignored my comment.

I have the freedom to say whatever I want in regards to what our leadership is doing. I feel that young kids considering military service should understand what is going on politically. They are not immune from that just because they will be a physician.

Again! This thread is titled "40 reasons NOT TO JOIN".

Change it to "40 reasons why being a military physician sucks" and your argument would be valid

 

[futuredoc331]

It's also worth noting for those who haven't read back to the one comment I made that it wasn't even a political belief.

I didn't state "war is bad" "Obama sucks" or anything regarding a belief system. I wrote a fact regarding our government spending. A fact that cannot be argued.

Maybe you feel funding Al Qaeda and providing them weapons isn't a bad thing. That's fine and good, but a future servicememner, physician or otherwise, may not agree.

Let's let them decide.

 

[AFSurgeon]

Dear Allen,
I would argue with you, but a wise man once said only a fool argues with a fool. You put your 2 cents in and said you would bow out, so please do so so we can all move on with this thread. Back when I was a young premed looking at the pros and cons, I would have valued the insight of people already practicing medicine in the military rather than the insights of another person who also knows nothing of what it's like to practice medicine in the military,
Yours truly

 

[futuredoc331]

Dear Allen,
I would argue with you, but a wise man once said only a fool argues with a fool. You put your 2 cents in and said you would bow out, so please do so so we can all move on with this thread. Back when I was a young premed looking at the pros and cons, I would have valued the insight of people already practicing medicine in the military rather than the insights of another person who also knows nothing of what it's like to practice medicine in the military,
Yours truly

I was gone until a couple of goofballs came back after 3 days.

You will not hear me speak on military medicine, but I have served and can speak about two different branches of
the military. Since this is a thread about joining I added my 2 cents about the military as a whole, which is valid. Stop trying to ivalidate it and I will gladly let you keep bitching about your jobs without my input