40 years old want to attend military medicine

[SmokeyFish]

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Hi everyone,

I'm a 40-year-old non-traditional pre-med student preparing to take the MCAT as I work toward applying to medical school. My ultimate goal is to pursue a career in military medicine, and I'm looking for advice on my options and the best pathway forward.

A little background about me:

• I'm finishing my pre-med coursework and have a strong academic record.
• I'm interested in serving in the military as a way to give back and also as a way to fund my medical education.
• I’m particularly drawn to specialties like anesthesiology and emergency medicine, but I’m open to exploring other areas based on what might align best with military needs.

I’ve been researching programs like the Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP) and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USUHS). However, I’m unsure which option might be the best fit for someone my age and with my interests.

Some of the questions I have include:

1. HPSP vs. USUHS: Which would be better for someone with my background and goals? Are there age considerations for either program?
2. Military Branch Selection: How do I decide which branch (Army, Navy, Air Force) would be the best fit for my interests in medicine and lifestyle considerations?
3. Career Path in Military Medicine: What should I know about working as a military physician, especially as a non-traditional student? How flexible is the military in terms of specialties?
4. Age Considerations: Are there any specific challenges I should prepare for as a 40-year-old entering this field?
5. Life After Military Medicine: What opportunities exist for transitioning out of the military after serving as a physician?

I’d love to hear from anyone who has taken a similar path or has experience with military medicine. Any insights, advice, or resources would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you for your time and guidance!

 

[xffan624]

1. HPSP vs. USUHS: Which would be better for someone with my background and goals? Are there age considerations for either program?

Google is your friend. Without a waiver, you're not eligible for either program. 36 for UHUHS, 42 at time of active duty entry (when you start residency) for HPSP.

Not sure if VA HPSP has a age requirement, but something to consider if you really want to serve military community.

 

[armytrainingsir]

40 years old and you haven’t started medical school?

A “Career” in the military is kind of out of the question in that a career implies doing 20 years and drawing a pension. Without waivers and policy changes, there’s no definite way for you to make a good 20 years before hitting your MRD (mandatory removal date) and being kicked out. To go active duty or even in the reserves at this point is trying to assume what the policies will be 20 years from now, which is absolutely impossible.

As mentioned above, your likely best bet would be the VA HPSP program and then you can always join the reserves for fun and scratch the military itch, be you would not be counting on a military retirement.


Good luck.

 

[SmokeyFish]

40 years old and you haven’t started medical school?

A “Career” in the military is kind of out of the question in that a career implies doing 20 years and drawing a pension. Without waivers and policy changes, there’s no definite way for you to make a good 20 years before hitting your MRD (mandatory removal date) and being kicked out. To go active duty or even in the reserves at this point is trying to assume what the policies will be 20 years from now, which is absolutely impossible.

As mentioned above, your likely best bet would be the VA HPSP program and then you can always join the reserves for fun and scratch the military itch, be you would not be counting on a military retirement.


Good luck.

Thank you , the military itch isn't much of the thing for me (I served 15 years in idf prior) . My passion is to serve in military medicine with military personal . Thank you very much for the advice I will look into to the VA HPSP and appreciate your direction .

 

[xffan624]

Thank you , the military itch isn't much of the thing for me (I served 15 years in idf prior) . My passion is to serve in military medicine with military personal . Thank you very much for the advice I will look into to the VA HPSP and appreciate your direction .

If you were prior US service there might be have been a way back in as a doctor. I knew a guy who rejoined (and even deployed with me) as a physician's assistant at the ripe old age of 52 who was a prior service Army officer. Not sure if the current environment is as amenable to that. It was a pretty loose time to enlistment with two wars going on back in 2008.

 

[comp1]

Never seen an age requirement given for VA HPSP and I'm pretty sure it'd be illegal if they did.

 

[DOswag]

When I did COT in 2010, there was an IM doc who had practiced medicine for like 25 years and decided to join the air force, he was at least in his 60's. Looked old enough to be my grandfather for sure and I was 25 at the time.

 

[SovjakRaya]

I am currently going through HPSP app process for Navy. I am 34. My recruiter said “42 is max” but I was unsure if his response was for at time of med school graduation or at time of residency graduation. Both of which I make the cut off so I didn’t go too much farther into it. My recruiter is mid with how thorough his answers are 😅
But you can be on active duty and get deployed etc anytime after that. So age requirement on the actual work.

 

[SmokeyFish]

I am currently going through HPSP app process for Navy. I am 34. My recruiter said “42 is max” but I was unsure if his response was for at time of med school graduation or at time of residency graduation. Both of which I make the cut off so I didn’t go too much farther into it. My recruiter is mid with how thorough his answers are 😅
But you can be on active duty and get deployed etc anytime after that. So age requirement on the actual work.

both of which i wouldnt maker the cut 🙂 reading above comments seems like working through VA is the way with me

 

[Jamil1504]

"Where there is a will, there is a waiver..." That is one of the most common phrases I've heard in my time as a Surface Warfare Officer in the Navy prior to medical school (I did 13 years Active Duty and then came to med school. Will be starting Gen Surg residency at Walter Reed in July). If you have an interest in military medicine, let the military tell you "no." Waivers are not uncommon for people. Unless you were planning on becoming a pilot or SEAL, I would not let your age deter you from seeking a waiver, if you really have a desire to serve.

 

[SovjakRaya]

"Where there is a will, there is a waiver..." That is one of the most common phrases I've heard in my time as a Surface Warfare Officer in the Navy prior to medical school (I did 13 years Active Duty and then came to med school. Will be starting Gen Surg residency at Walter Reed in July). If you have an interest in military medicine, let the military tell you "no." Waivers are not uncommon for people. Unless you were planning on becoming a pilot or SEAL, I would not let your age deter you from seeking a waiver, if you really have a desire to serve.

Do you think that might apply to mental health challenges that a person faced 15 yrs prior to application? Asking for someone who definitely
Isn’t me 🤭

 

[xffan624]

"Where there is a will, there is a waiver..." That is one of the most common phrases I've heard in my time as a Surface Warfare Officer in the Navy prior to medical school (I did 13 years Active Duty and then came to med school. Will be starting Gen Surg residency at Walter Reed in July). If you have an interest in military medicine, let the military tell you "no." Waivers are not uncommon for people. Unless you were planning on becoming a pilot or SEAL, I would not let your age deter you from seeking a waiver, if you really have a desire to serve.

Do you think that might apply to mental health challenges that a person faced 15 yrs prior to application? Asking for someone who definitely
Isn’t me 🤭

They are exaggerating from my experience in active duty. Some things can't be waivered and sometimes it seems to be just blind luck whether they say yes or no. I had an Air Force officer application waiver for a experience requirement in a specific field (substituting a master's degree in the same field instead). The recruiter thought it was a relatively routine waiver, but they said no. And even if something can be waivered it also depends on the service and the recruitment needs of the military of the time.

You can always try but I would temper your expectations. For mental health challenges, that's very vague. In general, if there are specific diagnoses and medications and admissions associated with said challenges, any waiver becomes much more difficult to obtain (the latter being pretty much a non-starter).

 

[DrMetal]

1. Age Considerations: Are there any specific challenges I should prepare for as a 40-year-old entering this field?

Uhh yeah, don't do it. 40s is too late to be going to medical school, especially the mil route (where your training may be interrupted, and you could be >50 yo before finishing residency).

I don't mean to be ageist, and I know it's been done before. But if you've gone 40 years in this life and accomplished other things/careers (I'm sure you have), stay on the path you know. There's plenty of ways to help people. Medicine is just too long of a drag to be starting in your 40s, and you're way too jaded (= knowing the ways of the real world) to buy off on half the crap we do.

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

Uhh yeah, don't do it. 40s is too late to be going to medical school, especially the mil route (where your training may be interrupted, and you could be >50 yo before finishing residency).

I don't mean to be ageist, and I know it's been done before. But if you've gone 40 years in this life and accomplished other things/careers (I'm sure you have), stay on the path you know. There's plenty of ways to help people. Medicine is just too long of a drag to be starting in your 40s, and you're way too jaded (= knowing the ways of the real world) to buy off on half the crap we do.

Hahaha... as someone that started med school at 40 and will finish surgical critical care fellowship at 51, I would have to politely disagree with that. It has been a very rough course but don't regret going this path. My difference is I did my military service first (joined at 29) and then decided to pursue medicine as a civilian.

That being said, it is vital that you have a solid understand of the impact medical education and the military will have on you and your family. If your ultimate goal is to serve in the military and are keen on doing it through medicine then it may be a reasonable path. You will sacrifice a large chunk of your life and freedom during your training and service. As DrMetal alluded to, there is a lot of crap both in the military and in medical training that can be hard to swallow at our age (but you just have to swallow it). As you're older, I will assume that you've thought this through well and discussed at length with any family that this may impact, but if any of the reasons to go this path is for doing "cool" stuff or for money then I'd think twice. But if this is a path that you truly are passionate about and willing to make the necessary sacrifices then I don't think your age is necessarily an absolute barrier.

On another note, I was accepted into USUSH to matriculate at 40 with a waiver (ended up going to a civilian med school, though).

 

[SovjakRaya]

Hahaha... as someone that started med school at 40 and will finish surgical critical care fellowship at 51, I would have to politely disagree with that. It has been a very rough course but don't regret going this path. My difference is I did my military service first (joined at 29) and then decided to pursue medicine as a civilian.

That being said, it is vital that you have a solid understand of the impact medical education and the military will have on you and your family. If your ultimate goal is to serve in the military and are keen on doing it through medicine then it may be a reasonable path. You will sacrifice a large chunk of your life and freedom during your training and service. As DrMetal alluded to, there is a lot of crap both in the military and in medical training that can be hard to swallow at our age (but you just have to swallow it). As you're older, I will assume that you've thought this through well and discussed at length with any family that this may impact, but if any of the reasons to go this path is for doing "cool" stuff or for money then I'd think twice. But if this is a path that you truly are passionate about and willing to make the necessary sacrifices then I don't think your age is necessarily an absolute barrier.

On another note, I was accepted into USUSH to matriculate at 40 with a waiver (ended up going to a civilian med school, though).

I agree with this post. I’m starting at 34 and my mentor started at 40. She was done raising her kids and has worked in public health and wanted to be in a clinical role in a rural community. She was offered a job before she even started clinical years and the hospital offered to pay all her loans. She’s loving life. I’m also a bit younger but had a whole career behind me and am looking forward to bringing that perspective to a clinical role.
It is a huge time and life commitment. But if you know what you’re getting into, I say go for it.

 

[DrMetal]

I’m also a bit younger but had a whole career behind me and am looking forward to bringing that perspective to a clinical role.

Stay gold Ponyboy . . . Stay gold. Your future clinical role will be shaped by whatever civilian or military apparatus dictates. Your prior career perspective will only work to give you better BS goggles. Pass the whiskey . . .

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

Stay gold Ponyboy . . . Stay gold. Your future clinical role will be shaped by whatever civilian or military apparatus dictates. Your prior career perspective will only work to give you better BS goggles. Pass the whiskey . . .

One plus as an older resident/medical student is that you're more likely to know the musical and cultural references that the attendings cite in the OR (such as the classic one referred to above). 😉

 

[SovjakRaya]

Stay gold Ponyboy . . . Stay gold. Your future clinical role will be shaped by whatever civilian or military apparatus dictates. Your prior career perspective will only work to give you better BS goggles. Pass the whiskey . . .

Ah your BS goggles have lenses made of jade, I see 🤓

 

[orbitsurgMD]

The oldest graduate in my medical school class was 43-years old on graduation day. He was Army HPSP but had at least 8 years in the Marines as a helicopter mechanic before doing the pre-med-med school route. He ended up in anesthesia. It is do-able, but I remember hearing him say that being older as a med student wasn't all that more difficult except that he felt he needed sleep more than when he was younger.

 

[armytrainingsir]

One plus as an older resident/medical student is that you're more likely to know the musical and cultural references that the attendings cite in the OR (such as the classic one referred to above). 😉

Another advantage is the older guys aren’t that easily intimidated by the attendings. One guy in my program was pushing 40 and he just didn’t give a rats arse when they tried to screw with him.

 

[DOswag]

I turn 40 in a little less than 2 months. I couldn't imagine trying to go to med school now but I know it is doable as we had a couple of people in my med school class 10+ years ago that were in their late 30's/early 40's. If I was single maybe but I'm married with 4 kids youngest is 4 and oldest is 15. I joke with my wife sometimes that maybe I want to switch specialties (I'm psych and no I do not want to switch specialties). Our marriage may not survive if I did go through with that... lol

 

[DrMetal]

It's doable, I think we'd all agree, just harder (you have less energy, less care, too much wisdom and real life experience).

Hell, as a 30-yo medical student, I used to question my neurology preceptor on the utility of the neuro exam, given the availability of MRI (and that we always get the MR . . . nobody trusts your exam for @#$%). Why are we still teaching the extensive neuro exam?! It's amazing I passed.

 

[CAPtainPsych01]

1. HPSP vs. USUHS: Age is not an issue. They need you and they'll give you waiver. But it's better to negotiate these choices AFTER you get an acceptance letter. USUHS, you're more stuck with the program. HPSP, you can go any medical school. There's less commitment with HPSP. Unsure about the benefit of USUHS, maybe faster promotion for lifers? Ask around.
2. Military Branch Selection: Are you a prior service member? Did you like it? There are stabilities of different kinds with the different branches. I have not heard of any deployment with the Air Force. Navy is tied to the Marine Corps and there is a high chance. Army is about the same as the Navy, but they may have more residency options depending on your specialty. I'm not sure about this but ask around. Look at all the bases for different branch and see if you can live there.
3. Career Path in Military Medicine: You can do anything you want. Some will be more competitive.
4. Age Considerations: Not at all. It'll be your choice. I'm not sensing that you're considering the military route strictly for the financial sense. If you are, there are other ways to pay for your loans in the civilian world.
5. Life After Military Medicine: What opportunities exist for transitioning out of the military after serving as a physician? If you stay long enough, you can go for O-7+ (Brigadier General in the Army). There's no real "power" in it though. Just pay, and maybe an honor and perks. Once you're done with the obligations, you can come out whenever you want. In my opinion, it's more about the population you serve, and the friends you make in the military that are the real value.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

1. HPSP vs. USUHS: Age is not an issue. They need you and they'll give you waiver. But it's better to negotiate these choices AFTER you get an acceptance letter. USUHS, you're more stuck with the program. HPSP, you can go any medical school. There's less commitment with HPSP. Unsure about the benefit of USUHS, maybe faster promotion for lifers? Ask around.
2. Military Branch Selection: Are you a prior service member? Did you like it? There are stabilities of different kinds with the different branches. I have not heard of any deployment with the Air Force. Navy is tied to the Marine Corps and there is a high chance. Army is about the same as the Navy, but they may have more residency options depending on your specialty. I'm not sure about this but ask around. Look at all the bases for different branch and see if you can live there.
3. Career Path in Military Medicine: You can do anything you want. Some will be more competitive.
4. Age Considerations: Not at all. It'll be your choice. I'm not sensing that you're considering the military route strictly for the financial sense. If you are, there are other ways to pay for your loans in the civilian world.
5. Life After Military Medicine: What opportunities exist for transitioning out of the military after serving as a physician? If you stay long enough, you can go for O-7+ (Brigadier General in the Army). There's no real "power" in it though. Just pay, and maybe an honor and perks. Once you're done with the obligations, you can come out whenever you want. In my opinion, it's more about the population you serve, and the friends you make in the military that are the real value.

He mentioned 15 years prior service in the IDF (Israel), so foreign military service. (The IDF has a large reserve component, so it is possible to serve and have another career.)

 

[pgg]

1. HPSP vs. USUHS: Age is not an issue. They need you and they'll give you waiver. But it's better to negotiate these choices AFTER you get an acceptance letter. USUHS, you're more stuck with the program. HPSP, you can go any medical school. There's less commitment with HPSP. Unsure about the benefit of USUHS, maybe faster promotion for lifers? Ask around.
2. Military Branch Selection: Are you a prior service member? Did you like it? There are stabilities of different kinds with the different branches. I have not heard of any deployment with the Air Force. Navy is tied to the Marine Corps and there is a high chance. Army is about the same as the Navy, but they may have more residency options depending on your specialty. I'm not sure about this but ask around. Look at all the bases for different branch and see if you can live there.
3. Career Path in Military Medicine: You can do anything you want. Some will be more competitive.
4. Age Considerations: Not at all. It'll be your choice. I'm not sensing that you're considering the military route strictly for the financial sense. If you are, there are other ways to pay for your loans in the civilian world.
5. Life After Military Medicine: What opportunities exist for transitioning out of the military after serving as a physician? If you stay long enough, you can go for O-7+ (Brigadier General in the Army). There's no real "power" in it though. Just pay, and maybe an honor and perks. Once you're done with the obligations, you can come out whenever you want. In my opinion, it's more about the population you serve, and the friends you make in the military that are the real value.

There's about 5x as much wrong with this post as there is right with it.

Who are you? Did you just read a brochure and decide to toss some guesses out there?


1. Waivers are not automatic. USUHS grads do not promote faster than HPSP grads.
2. You have not heard of any deployment with the Air Force? I don't even know where to begin with this.
3. LOL, nope.
4. One out of five ain't bad. Yes, there are other ways to pay for medical school.
5. The primary opportunity for life after being a military physician is ... being a civilian physician. You can go for O7+? Sure ... you can go for one of those astronaut spots too! Also, strictly speaking, medical corps O7s should get paid LESS than O6s because they aren't eligible for medical special pays. The vast majority of flag officers don't practice medicine any more - though it wouldn't surprise me if they gundecked some forms to continue their special pay eligibility.

 

[SmokeyFish]

All you guys have given great advice , I appreciate each one of your unique perspectives. I am going to look into each on of these deeply, talk to several people in the admin/org (recruiters & admin) and those with prior experience with nothing to gain (not recruiters etc). It really does take multiple view points and experiences and deep reflection onto my own needs and path to properly assess the most desirable way and outcome for myself. Thank you for all the input again.

 

[deuist]

There's about 5x as much wrong with this post as there is right with it.

Who are you? Did you just read a brochure and decide to toss some guesses out there?


1. Waivers are not automatic. USUHS grads do not promote faster than HPSP grads.
2. You have not heard of any deployment with the Air Force? I don't even know where to begin with this.
3. LOL, nope.
4. One out of five ain't bad. Yes, there are other ways to pay for medical school.
5. The primary opportunity for life after being a military physician is ... being a civilian physician. You can go for O7+? Sure ... you can go for one of those astronaut spots too! Also, strictly speaking, medical corps O7s should get paid LESS than O6s because they aren't eligible for medical special pays. The vast majority of flag officers don't practice medicine any more - though it wouldn't surprise me if they gundecked some forms to continue their special pay eligibility.

I deployed and definitely did not get to do whatever I wanted specialty wise. That post was as unhelpful they come. In the Air Force, you're not going to be a flag officer unless you're a flight surgeon who has been for more than 20 years and have held a lot of command roles. The bios of all generals are publicly available online you anyone to get an idea of what's required to promote to such a level.

 

[afteranesthesia]

1. HPSP vs. USUHS: Age is not an issue. They need you and they'll give you waiver. But it's better to negotiate these choices AFTER you get an acceptance letter. USUHS, you're more stuck with the program. HPSP, you can go any medical school. There's less commitment with HPSP. Unsure about the benefit of USUHS, maybe faster promotion for lifers? Ask around.
2. Military Branch Selection: Are you a prior service member? Did you like it? There are stabilities of different kinds with the different branches. I have not heard of any deployment with the Air Force. Navy is tied to the Marine Corps and there is a high chance. Army is about the same as the Navy, but they may have more residency options depending on your specialty. I'm not sure about this but ask around. Look at all the bases for different branch and see if you can live there.
3. Career Path in Military Medicine: You can do anything you want. Some will be more competitive.
4. Age Considerations: Not at all. It'll be your choice. I'm not sensing that you're considering the military route strictly for the financial sense. If you are, there are other ways to pay for your loans in the civilian world.
5. Life After Military Medicine: What opportunities exist for transitioning out of the military after serving as a physician? If you stay long enough, you can go for O-7+ (Brigadier General in the Army). There's no real "power" in it though. Just pay, and maybe an honor and perks. Once you're done with the obligations, you can come out whenever you want. In my opinion, it's more about the population you serve, and the friends you make in the military that are the real value.

Are you actually in the military? WTAF. You have never heard of deployment in the AF? Well, I deployed with the AF. Now you have. I've never seen a more uneducated post on this forum positioning itself as being a source of actual, real information.

 

[idoitforv]

I'm a current MS3 at a civilian medical school, I also turned 40 this year. Medical school is tough at any age, but I do feel a step behind the younger kids, often its because I have real world conflicts, like kids. I'm also in Navy HSCP because I'm one of the very few ppl where it benefits me. I have 12 years active duty time in the Marines, and now 2 in the Navy.

I know nothing about military medicine, I turned down UHUHS, but I do know plan to deploy. You will have less reps regardless of specialties compared to civilian counterparts. Maybe consider reserves/guard, which gives you the ability support the military while having and maintaining a civilian level of competency.

Petit à petit l'oiseau fait son nid - A french proverb that means "little by little, the bird builds its nest" -- with pertinence and perseverance you can accomplish difficult and complex goals

 

[DrMetal]

Petit à petit l'oiseau fait son nid - A french proverb that means "little by little, the bird builds its nest"

I'm glad you provided a translation. I interpret most French proverbs as, "We surrender, we surrender!"

 

[idoitforv]

I'm glad you provided a translation. I interpret most French proverbs as, "We surrender, we surrender!"

And yet somehow, that 'surrendering' nation still ends up with better food, wine, public transit—and universal healthcare that actually works. Strange world, right? Especially coming from someone who’s not exactly shy about criticizing our own military healthcare system.

 

[pgg]

And yet somehow, that 'surrendering' nation still ends up with better food, wine, public transit—and universal healthcare that actually works. Strange world, right? Especially coming from someone who’s not exactly shy about criticizing our own military healthcare system.

🙄

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[DrMetal]

And yet somehow, that 'surrendering' nation still ends up with better food, wine, public transit—and universal healthcare that actually works. Strange world, right? Especially coming from someone who’s not exactly shy about criticizing our own military healthcare system.

I don't know about the wine anymore. California is giving France a run for it's money. Has been for most of this century.

 

[idoitforv]

🙄

Lighten up, Francis.

I'm cool as a cucumber @pgg; returning fire is the big lesson at boot camp, right after they feed us crayons. You know what they say about old habits 🙂

 

[idoitforv]

I don't know about the wine anymore. California is giving France a run for it's money. Has been for most of this century.

Happy to hear Napa, Sonoma and Temecula are getting some recognition for their hard work!

 

[pgg]

I'm cool as a cucumber @pgg; returning fire is the big lesson at boot camp, right after they feed us crayons. You know what they say about old habits 🙂

LOL 🙂

If we're going to talk about how awesome European-style socialism is while throwing shade at how "terrible" things are in the USA, we ought to at least acknowledge that the only reason the post-WWII European socialism experiment has endured for the last 80 years is because they collectively deferred/outsourced their defense budget to the USA.

If there's a silver lining to Trumpian isolationism and Putin's USSR ver 2.0 aspirations, it's that Europe is starting to take its defense obligations a little more seriously. Better late than never, I guess.

Maybe we could talk about French immigration/assimilation issues too. 😉

 

[DrMetal]

LOL 🙂

If we're going to talk about how awesome European-style socialism is while throwing shade at how "terrible" things are in the USA, we ought to at least acknowledge that the only reason the post-WWII European socialism experiment has endured for the last 80 years is because they collectively deferred/outsourced their defense budget to the USA.

If there's a silver lining to Trumpian isolationism and Putin's USSR ver 2.0 aspirations, it's that Europe is starting to take its defense obligations a little more seriously. Better late than never, I guess.

Maybe we could talk about French immigration/assimilation issues too. 😉

Absolutely true. And the European mentality of healthcare is quite different from ours. If someone gets sick and injured, they can wait in line to be treated (in the United States, if you tear your ACL, Americans expect surgery tomorrow).

In Europe, they allow their elderly to grow sick and die, let nature takes it's course. Americans are happy to dialyze a 96-yo so she can see her 97th birthday.

I for one agree more with the European mindset in these regards.

Still, the French could've done more to resist Hitler.

 

[idoitforv]

LOL 🙂

If we're going to talk about how awesome European-style socialism is while throwing shade at how "terrible" things are in the USA, we ought to at least acknowledge that the only reason the post-WWII European socialism experiment has endured for the last 80 years is because they collectively deferred/outsourced their defense budget to the USA.

If there's a silver lining to Trumpian isolationism and Putin's USSR ver 2.0 aspirations, it's that Europe is starting to take its defense obligations a little more seriously. Better late than never, I guess.

Maybe we could talk about French immigration/assimilation issues too. 😉

Whelp, this took a turn away from "lighten up" mantra of yesterday. Never used either word "awesome" or "terrible", because they're poor descriptors of performance. I'm sorry if my statement stirred up feeling from your recent news feed/social media algorithm.

Maybe we can talk about why you're so consternated when I use a french quote, would you prefer if I used one from a country with a political ideology that matches your own? Would that be America, because I have no idea what our political ideology is, I'd be happy to learn though 😉

ORRRRR we can try to advise OP on his desire to pursue medicine at an older age. I've been told numerous times on these board that I shouldn't talk about things I have no experience in and last time I checked, I'm the only one on this thread that is in his 40's at medical school pursuing a military medical career so I saw an opportunity where I can come in with sanctioned advice.

 

[idoitforv]

Absolutely true. And the European mentality of healthcare is quite different from ours. If someone gets sick and injured, they can wait in line to be treated (in the United States, if you tear your ACL, Americans expect surgery tomorrow).

In Europe, they allow their elderly to grow sick and die, let nature takes it's course. Americans are happy to dialyze a 96-yo so she can see her 97th birthday.

I for one agree more with the European mindset in these regards.

Still, the French could've done more to resist Hitler.

Which American's expect AND get surgery tomorrow?

From my 80 year post-war lens it sure does look like the French could've done more to resist Hitler but then again I still think the Seahawks calling a throw play at Super Bowl 49 on the 1 yard line was one of the worst mistakes in football history... alas I'll belay my armchair coaching to where it belongs.

Hindsight does tend to make history seem so clear, it's one of the largest biases we tell ourselves. I can't tell you how many nights I've kept myself awake reliving the events leading up to 26 August 2021 and asking myself what I could've done to prevent it, thinking we could've done more.

Oh and we're 49th for Life Expectancy at Birth according to CIA's World Factbook, which is not great since we're number one for cost of healthcare by a fairly healthy margin.

For clarity, one of the top reasons I continue to serve is my patriotism and support of this great nation; because it sure ain't about the pay or stability of life lol.

OP If you're still around, yes you can still go to medical school, maybe you can serve with a waiver; it just can't be about the money, because med school isn't cheap and your ROI is not going to be great.

 

[pgg]

Whelp, this took a turn away from "lighten up" mantra of yesterday. Never used either word "awesome" or "terrible", because they're poor descriptors of performance. I'm sorry if my statement stirred up feeling from your recent news feed/social media algorithm.

Maybe we can talk about why you're so consternated when I use a french quote, would you prefer if I used one from a country with a political ideology that matches your own? Would that be America, because I have no idea what our political ideology is, I'd be happy to learn though 😉

ORRRRR we can try to advise OP on his desire to pursue medicine at an older age. I've been told numerous times on these board that I shouldn't talk about things I have no experience in and last time I checked, I'm the only one on this thread that is in his 40's at medical school pursuing a military medical career so I saw an opportunity where I can come in with sanctioned advice.

Threads drift, topics shift - in this case because you decided to introduce a discussion of ways in which France is (supposedly) outperforming the USA.

I'll certainly give you public transportation. 🙂

Food and drink is pretty subjective - personally I think French food apart from bread is vastly overrated, and that Mexico has the best food on the planet. But other than that and some nice beaches in Baja there isn't a lot I envy about Mexico.

DrMetal made a silly (tired, cliche, mostly factually untrue) joke about France and you got angsty - sorry, cool like a cucumber - and felt the need to point out ways in which France was superior to the USA. Because I like arguing with people, I felt compelled to point out the ways in which you're wrong.

Like I said - lighten up, Francis. 🙂

 

[idoitforv]

Threads drift, topics shift - in this case because you decided to introduce a discussion of ways in which France is (supposedly) outperforming the USA.

I'll certainly give you public transportation. 🙂

Food and drink is pretty subjective - personally I think French food apart from bread is vastly overrated, and that Mexico has the best food on the planet. But other than that and some nice beaches in Baja there isn't a lot I envy about Mexico.

DrMetal made a silly (tired, cliche, mostly factually untrue) joke about France and you got angsty - sorry, cool like a cucumber - and felt the need to point out ways in which France was superior to the USA. Because I like arguing with people, I felt compelled to point out the ways in which you're wrong.

Like I said - lighten up, Francis. 🙂

Does that tend to work for you? Mischaracterizing people’s statements (especially when they’re written and verifiable) and then telling them how they feel until you get the desired effect?

DrMetal started us on this topic, but theres a very slim chance where it went was his intention. I never used the word “superior”—words matter and you really tend to struggle with imagined adjectives. I meant that the food is objectively better in the sense that it contains simple, clean ingredients, which we often have to pay extra for if we can get at all; not the subjective flavor.

Oh and aye, aye sir!! Lightening up!

 

[militaryPHYS]

This one went very adrift. I think we are all ready to move on.

 

[Onefellswoop87]

Does that tend to work for you? Mischaracterizing people’s statements (especially when they’re written and verifiable) and then telling them how they feel until you get the desired effect?

DrMetal started us on this topic, but theres a very slim chance where it went was his intention. I never used the word “superior”—words matter and you really tend to struggle with imagined adjectives. I meant that the food is objectively better in the sense that it contains simple, clean ingredients, which we often have to pay extra for if we can get at all; not the subjective flavor.

Oh and aye, aye sir!! Lightening up!

If it’s objectively better, then isn’t that superior?

 

[ProwlerturnGas]

Which American's expect AND get surgery tomorrow?

From my 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year post-war lens it sure does look like the French could've done more to resist Hitler but then again I still think the Seahawks calling a throw play at Super Bowl [emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]]]]] on the [emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]] yard line was one of the worst mistakes in football history... alas I'll belay my armchair coaching to where it belongs.

Hindsight does tend to make history seem so clear, it's one of the largest biases we tell ourselves. I can't tell you how many nights I've kept myself awake reliving the events leading up to [emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]]]] August [emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]] and asking myself what I could've done to prevent it, thinking we could've done more.

Oh and we're [emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]]]]]th for Life Expectancy at Birth according to CIA's World Factbook, which is not great since we're number one for cost of healthcare by a fairly healthy margin.

For clarity, one of the top reasons I continue to serve is my patriotism and support of this great nation; because it sure ain't about the pay or stability of life lol.

OP If you're still around, yes you can still go to medical school, maybe you can serve with a waiver; it just can't be about the money, because med school isn't cheap and your ROI is not going to be great.

I don’t really have an opinion on France and its people other than the cheese is great!

The Seahawks though…I agree completely. What a terrible play call and I had chest pain after that game! Especially egregious with Marshawn in your armamentarium.